What are your cost cutting observations

[time4u2go]

1 hour ago, kruzerci said:

Food quality, ship maintenance, and headliner entertainment/ musicians are the most noticeable to me.

Same here. Those are the things that I have noticed as well.

[Cayman1]

58 minutes ago, topnole said:

Cruising cost more 20-30 years ago. And that isn’t even including inflation.  A standard cruise fare is dirt cheap compared to the history you are speaking of the ships didn’t cost close to 1-2 billion to build.  Expecting low prices and the old ways just isn’t realistic.  By the old standards, a cruiser should easily cost 2-3k per person.  

 

I have an Excel spreadsheet of what I paid for all cruises, and for me anyways, they are continuing to climb.

 

I get the money they are pouring into these new amazing ships, as its part of doing business. My post wasn't a complaint, just worried what cruising may look like down the road. Hopefully it never gets so bad that I throw in the towel.

 

At the end of the day, they are in business to turn a profit, just like any business.

[Cayman1]

14 minutes ago, BND said:

The cost of everything is going up yet people still want a cheap cruise. You get what you pay for.  As for no honey dew melon, meh.  I don't like it, but it and cantaloupe are cheap so it must be a supply issue.  As for strawberries, this is not a good time of year for them so they're also prob harder to get and expensive.   And, lol, you can keep the bleu cheese, yuck!   We've cruised 7 times since restart and have 3 more this year (one in April and one b2b in Oct/Nov).  With the exception of last Apr on EN when they were very understaffed with full cruises, every ship has been very clean and entertainment was good.  

 

 

I agree with you. LOL Well except the strawberries. I am in the Produce world and these are on the West Coast this time of year coming out of Plant City. The berries have been beautiful this year so far. 🙂

 

 

[topnole]

22 minutes ago, Cayman1 said:

 

I have an Excel spreadsheet of what I paid for all cruises, and for me anyways, they are continuing to climb.

 

I get the money they are pouring into these new amazing ships, as its part of doing business. My post wasn't a complaint, just worried what cruising may look like down the road. Hopefully it never gets so bad that I throw in the towel.

 

At the end of the day, they are in business to turn a profit, just like any business.

From 20-30 years ago.  Bravo to you for being so thorough.  I don’t have a spreadsheet.  But I know cabins on my last trip on Harmony were far cheaper than when I sailed Oasis in 2010 or Mariner in 2005 for example.  But both of those were cheaper than sailing on carnival with just a window back in the 1990s.  And again, non of this even includes adjusting for inflation.  To compare to 20-30 years ago a cabin should be at least 2 and more like 3 times as expensive.  

[true45]

49 minutes ago, Cayman1 said:

I agree with you. LOL Well except the strawberries. I am in the Produce world and these are on the West Coast this time of year coming out of Plant City. The berries have been beautiful this year so far. 🙂

 

 

Yes agree about strawberries 

I live in Florida and they are sweet and plump this season so far 

[Cayman1]

5 minutes ago, true45 said:

Yes agree about strawberries 

I live in Florida and they are sweet and plump this season so far 

I said West Coast, but meant East Coast. 

[BND]

1 hour ago, Cayman1 said:

I agree with you. LOL Well except the strawberries. I am in the Produce world and these are on the West Coast this time of year coming out of Plant City. The berries have been beautiful this year so far. 🙂

 

 

Problem is by the time strawberries get to us, they're not in great shape and don't last more than a day or two.   Our strawberry season is really May/June in the Mid-Atlantic.  It's when we get the best ones.

[Nunagoras]

1 hour ago, Cayman1 said:

 

I have an Excel spreadsheet of what I paid for all cruises, and for me anyways, they are continuing to climb.

 

I get the money they are pouring into these new amazing ships, as its part of doing business. My post wasn't a complaint, just worried what cruising may look like down the road. Hopefully it never gets so bad that I throw in the towel.

 

At the end of the day, they are in business to turn a profit, just like any business.

It's worth to mention that all of those giant ships now being completed and put in operation were contracted before the pandemic and to refuse them now would to be more expensive than building them anyway. There is no 2028-2032 cruise ship building schedule yet for none of the shipyards, other than small yacht like, mostly trial alternative energy (like liquid hydrogen) fueled cruise ships. If the 2028-32 schedule doesn't come as expected till early 2025 at most, it is certain that Europe will to enjoy a bad time from 2027 onward with the loss of a significant industry here. I hope for the better, but for the better to happen, we all must to make some compromise.

[BirdTravels]

12 hours ago, mojomanny said:

These are observations, not necessarily complaints and certainly not whining, but the Royal Caribbean product is changing and I want to post my observations

Here are subtle but notable changes I've seen recently  (please add your own observations)

 

1. Salad bar "toppings" options greatly reduced
2. cutting down to three dressings on salad bar (no more blue cheese dressing)
3. Eliminating spinach on the salad bar
4. Fresh fruit is no long cut up, it is sliced but not cut up
5. No more strawberries and no honey dew melon on my last two cruises (not too long ago you could get mango, passion fruit, star fruit...)
6. Wedge salad doesn't include blue cheese crumbles (but does have blue cheese dressing)
7. Obviously the whole change to the main dining room menu
8. You may order as many items as you would like (starters, entrees, desserts) but they will serve only one at a time.
9. only 4-5 butter patties on the table when you sit down at a table of 6 (this was the norm, not an exception)
10. Harmony is going to once a day room cleaning/servicing rather than twice a day, with it moving to another ship soon and likely fleetwide
11. Sorrentos used to have other options in addition to pizza, no more
    
    What have you noticed?

So,,, I don't see a lot of these as cost cutting. A lot of times, you make decisions on what the customers want. 

 

For example, if blue cheese is not being used today by the more health conscious cruisers and the majority of it ends up being thrown down the grinder and fed to the fish each service, that is an item that you just eliminate. 

 

Cruise lines, or any business for that matter, doesn't prepare items just of the heck of it. And they don't do things because that was done in the past. They carefully evaluate what sells to their target audience and what doesn't and should be eliminated. 

 

I am going to pick on the butter patties, in the past, left over butter and even bread was recycled to the next table. Post-COVID, it now has to be disposed of. And with the health conscious cruisers, fewer people are using butter.  And it only takes a request if you are a table of unhealthy diners. 

 

The new dinner menu is wonderful. It shows that the cruise line is spending money and investing in their future. They are catering to the contemporary cruiser,,, the millennials that will sustain the business for the next decade. I have been cruising for many decades and have been appalled by how "out of touch" Royal has been on what their clients really want.... no... not the old folks like us... what people want and order today in restaurants on land and at sea. Us old folks will continue cruising regardless of what the cruise line does. It is the new, younger folks that need to be enticed to become a regular member of the Royal family. And they don't want "meat and potatoes" every night. They want international foods to give them, sort of, a foodie experience. Blue Cheese Crumbles,,,,  that is sooooo 1980's. 

[cruiselvr04]

2 hours ago, Cayman1 said:

 

 

Cruising is my passion. There is nothing in this world that I would rather do with my time and money. But I am also fearful that they keep taking away and not giving much back. Again, I totally understand that they are trying to run a profitable business, but all the taking away and the increased cost to everyting, as well as the nickel and dining, makes me concerned for the future.

 

 

 

 

Free room service was a biggie for us.  Now we just always go get our own food. Even if you order now it’s wrong or takes forever to come.

 

The Red Carpet movie night makes me upset.  What a cheap out instead of getting an entertainer for the evening.  This is one reason (there are many) we won’t cruise Carnival again. Movies are ok in addition to other things but it was considered the “show” on our last cruise.  I did call them out on it on my survey.  However new cruisers won’t notice it.  

Even little things like no more keychains at trivia or medals at mini golf tournaments.  These are really small things like no chocolates on the pillow but again they are taking away. 

 

The bean counters will continue to chip away until all the small things are gone and it will be bare bones.  You have to book a suite for CK or the UDP just to get decent food.  Gone are the days I have to worry about gaining weight  on a cruise. 
 

We will be spending our money now on more interesting itineraries since the quality has gone down and cruising just to be on a ship has become less enjoyable.  
 

 

 

[HicksRA]

Conversely, is there anything you can think of that they haven’t modified, reduced or cheapened??  
One quick thought - we ate at Giovanni’s recently and the food was as good as always, but the steak was noticeably smaller and pasta portions were tiny. 

[topnole]

13 minutes ago, cruiselvr04 said:

Free room service was a biggie for us.  Now we just always go get our own food. Even if you order now it’s wrong or takes forever to come.

 

The Red Carpet movie night makes me upset.  What a cheap out instead of getting an entertainer for the evening.  This is one reason (there are many) we won’t cruise Carnival again. Movies are ok in addition to other things but it was considered the “show” on our last cruise.  I did call them out on it on my survey.  However new cruisers won’t notice it.  

Even little things like no more keychains at trivia or medals at mini golf tournaments.  These are really small things like no chocolates on the pillow but again they are taking away. 

 

The bean counters will continue to chip away until all the small things are gone and it will be bare bones.  You have to book a suite for CK or the UDP just to get decent food.  Gone are the days I have to worry about gaining weight  on a cruise. 
 

We will be spending our money now on more interesting itineraries since the quality has gone down and cruising just to be on a ship has become less enjoyable.  
 

 

 

Blame it on the bean counters all you want.  It’s management (ie the CEO and leadership team) making the decisions with board approval where needed.  If they only listen to bean counters, that’s a management problem.  Not a bean counter problem.  

[BND]

We learned something interesting on our cruise on Jewel last Nov from a fellow guest who is a chef in FL at a resort.  The food supply company that Royal used went out of business during the pandemic because the bulk of their business was cruise ships.  They had to find a new one for restart and there have been food quality and supply issues.    There are different tiers of quality with food suppliers which means different costs.  You'd be paying a lot more for your cruise if they went with the highest tier that top restaurants use.  For  example, we have a really good local restaurant group (3 locations) that the food has been consistent since day 1 (20+ years) and that's because they buy the highest quality they can.  But, the prices reflect that and portion sizes have shrunk some.  It's just the nature of the economy right now. 

[BirdTravels]

3 hours ago, Cayman1 said:

How about the midnight buffets and the ice sculptures and chocolate buffet?

There were no specialty restaurants and mostly all food was included.

The midnight buffet and chocolate buffets are things of the past. The contemporary cruiser has no interest in them. When you talk to the old time executive chefs, they will tell you that in the end, 10's of thousands of pounds of chocolate were being thrown down the grinder as fish food every week. And while a few of the "old timers" like us would come up and gawk at it (90% of the passengers would not), very little food was being consumed and it turned into a 100% loss in food and labor to create it. As a business this is the exact thing you want to throw overboard. 

 

And there is zero need to go to a specialty restaurant. None. We have been sailing for decades, and as far back as I can remember, there was always at least one specialty restaurant. All of the food that I would ever need on a cruise is included. We never waste money on specialty dining. Drinks, we can live on our diamond vouchers. 

[grandgeezer]

2 hours ago, topnole said:

Cruising cost more 20-30 years ago. And that isn’t even including inflation.  A standard cruise fare is dirt cheap compared to the history you are speaking of the ships didn’t cost close to 1-2 billion to build.  Expecting low prices and the old ways just isn’t realistic.  By the old standards, a cruiser should easily cost 2-3k per person.  

In able to make just a cost comparison you have to compare apples with apples. We started cruising in 2003 and our last cruise was in 2019, and the product is as different as night and day. We would gladly pay today’s prices for say the 2012 product, but that’s not going to happen, life goes on. We are value shoppers, not just price, and we see little value now. The true test will be if and when inflation is under control and the cruise lines get their massive debt under control, what will happen to pricing. If you think there will be downward adjustment, or a period of stable pricing, you are getting your moneys worth on the drink package. Once they get their hand in your pocket it’s never coming out.

 

[PhillyFan33579]

5 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

In able to make just a cost comparison you have to compare apples with apples. We started cruising in 2003 and our last cruise was in 2019, and the product is as different as night and day. We would gladly pay today’s prices for say the 2012 product, but that’s not going to happen, life goes on. We are value shoppers, not just price, and we see little value now. The true test will be if and when inflation is under control and the cruise lines get their massive debt under control, what will happen to pricing. If you think there will be downward adjustment, or a period of stable pricing, you are getting your moneys worth on the drink package. Once they get their hand in your pocket it’s never coming out.

 

I think you can say that about the majority of businesses…a lot of change happens over 16 years. If you haven’t cruised since 2019, you haven’t experienced all the post COVID changes yet. I don’t see cruise prices dropping in the future, but I still think cruising is one of the best bargains out there for traveling.  

[Cayman1]

11 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I think you can say that about the majority of businesses…a lot of change happens over 16 years. If you haven’t cruised since 2019, you haven’t experienced all the post COVID changes yet. I don’t see cruise prices dropping in the future, but I still think cruising is one of the best bargains out there for traveling.  

 

Fully agree! It is the best bang for the buck.

 

[topnole]

30 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

In able to make just a cost comparison you have to compare apples with apples. We started cruising in 2003 and our last cruise was in 2019, and the product is as different as night and day. We would gladly pay today’s prices for say the 2012 product, but that’s not going to happen, life goes on. We are value shoppers, not just price, and we see little value now. The true test will be if and when inflation is under control and the cruise lines get their massive debt under control, what will happen to pricing. If you think there will be downward adjustment, or a period of stable pricing, you are getting your moneys worth on the drink package. Once they get their hand in your pocket it’s never coming out.

 

People who want low prices really can’t complain.  You still get a ton for your money.  Anyone can book a suite or pay for specialty restaurants which will give you a more refined experience.  I remember paying similar prices as I do know for a week long cruise 25 years ago.  People who want what used to be offered are taking into account that a cruise would cost 2-3k per person if cruise fares had inflated at normal rates.  Instead they haven’t, but they charge for things that used to be included.   It’s just a change in business model.  Anyone can still get all the great food and service that want.  Just book a suite and you’d be paying a similar price for a regular cruise back in the 80s or 90s adjusted for inflation.  

[BND]

1 hour ago, BirdTravels said:

The midnight buffet and chocolate buffets are things of the past. The contemporary cruiser has no interest in them. When you talk to the old time executive chefs, they will tell you that in the end, 10's of thousands of pounds of chocolate were being thrown down the grinder as fish food every week. And while a few of the "old timers" like us would come up and gawk at it (90% of the passengers would not), very little food was being consumed and it turned into a 100% loss in food and labor to create it. As a business this is the exact thing you want to throw overboard. 

 

And there is zero need to go to a specialty restaurant. None. We have been sailing for decades, and as far back as I can remember, there was always at least one specialty restaurant. All of the food that I would ever need on a cruise is included. We never waste money on specialty dining. Drinks, we can live on our diamond vouchers. 

Most of the food on the midnight buffet was just for looks.  It wasn't all that good.  We don't eat after dinner (late seating).  It's really tough on digestion to eat and then go to sleep.  We also just went to walk by it.  As for chocolate buffets, some of it was good, but a lot was for show also.  Even the chocolate breakfast they did for a couple of years wasn't all that great.  I loved (not) the "milkshake" they had on the menu lol.  It was just chocolate milk, no ice cream in sight.  

[Husky1987]

13 hours ago, mojomanny said:

What have you noticed?

 

Step 1.  Cruise companies implement cost-cutting measures to increase profits

Step 2.  Customers whine and complain while booking more cruises

Step 3.  Repeat Steps 1 and 2 ad infinitum

[GetToLivin]

Anyone ever wonder why they're building new ships if they're struggling to get back in the green? I'm surprised they don't break from that and work on improving the overall product and experience of what they already have going 🤔

[nelblu]

9 hours ago, FionaMG said:

 

I found the same with the pre-prepared deli dishes. All I wanted was a slice of cheese and a slice of ham but they no trays out where I could take just that. I had to take two different deli dishes to get what I wanted and the rest went in the bin. 😕

Not sure what ship you are referring, but they had trays of cheeses and meats on Anthem and Oasis.

What I miss at lunch in the WJ is the pre-made deli sandwiches and wraps.  

Edited February 27, 2023 by nelblu

[Ryder101]

5 minutes ago, GetToLivin said:

Anyone ever wonder why they're building new ships if they're struggling to get back in the green? I'm surprised they don't break from that and work on improving the overall product and experience of what they already have going 🤔

The ship were contracted to be built pre pandemic, when the cruise lines were in the black. To cancel those orders costs more than completing them. As I understand it as of 2025 there are no more scheduled going forward.

[cruiselvr04]

I’m completely ok with no midnight buffets or chocolate buffets.  I never did like all the food waste.  I just want a meal that tastes good in the MDR.  It doesn’t have to be stupendous and the servings don’t have to be big. Our last cruise this month was super disappointing and we are not foodies.  The bread was the highlight of most meals. For lunch it’s usually a salad and that’s hard to mess up so I enjoyed that.  
 

Interesting about the suppliers.  However I think a good chef can take what he gets and make it good.  
 

Hoping for better in March but at least I now know what not to order.

[nelblu]

16 minutes ago, BND said:

Most of the food on the midnight buffet was just for looks.  It wasn't all that good.  We don't eat after dinner (late seating).  It's really tough on digestion to eat and then go to sleep.  We also just went to walk by it.  As for chocolate buffets, some of it was good, but a lot was for show also.  Even the chocolate breakfast they did for a couple of years wasn't all that great.  I loved (not) the "milkshake" they had on the menu lol.  It was just chocolate milk, no ice cream in sight.  

The best buffets that Royal ever had was the Tutti salad for breakfast and lunch in the MDR on Oasis and Quantum classes.  The first time I saw the Tutti was on Quantum and was impressive as you entered American Icon and seeing a chocolate fountain surrounded by 2 kinds of ice cream and many varieties of cakes and other sweet desserts.

 

Plus, I'm not even going to mention Dynamic Dining concept on the Quantum and Anthem.