Do you think medical or travel insurance is necessary?

[Sigyn]

I'm about to do my second cruise in a span of three months. Each time I've bought medical insurance for travel through GeoBlue, but not travel insurance. The medical insurance makes sense to me since there's all sorts of super expensive things that can go wrong that my regular medical insurance doesn't cover, such as medical evacuation, etc. I haven't bought travel insurance because the loss of $5,000 or so for the cruise is an expense I can handle. I believe in insurance for costs that are detrimental to my finances. 

 

Do you get medical and/or travel insurance? 

[1025cruise]

If you are OK with eating the losses, then that's up to you.

[hallasm]

Yes. Sometimes you insure yourself against a situation that may not be necessary, while at other times you overlook what is necessary.  It is necessary to know which expenses you have to cover yourself if you fall ill on board a cruise ship.  Evacuation is not necessarily a cost you have to cover yourself.  It is also important to know which expenses are not reimbursed in the event that someone in your travel company falls ill before the trip - for example, payment for flights and cruises.  
Illness on board can be a costly affair, while the cost of the journey itself is known. Insurance is required to cover for medical emergency and cancellation.

[sparks1093]

I get travel insurance because while I could "eat" the loss of the cost of the cruise it's nice to know that I'll get that money back so I can either take another cruise or use it to help pay for what caused me to miss the cruise. I've priced plans with just medical/medevac coverage and then with the travel cost added and it doesn't increase the premium by that much. 

[sparks1093]

14 minutes ago, hallasm said:

Yes. Sometimes you insure yourself against a situation that may not be necessary, while at other times you overlook what is necessary.  It is necessary to know which expenses you have to cover yourself if you fall ill on board a cruise ship.  Evacuation is not necessarily a cost you have to cover yourself.  It is also important to know which expenses are not reimbursed in the event that someone in your travel company falls ill before the trip - for example, payment for flights and cruises.  
Illness on board can be a costly affair, while the cost of the journey itself is known. Insurance is required to cover for medical emergency and cancellation.

If you are evacuated from the ship it will likely be done by a government authority (like the Coast Guard) and there probably won't be a charge for that. However, this won't apply if you are hospitalized in a port and need a medevac flight to return to the US (or if the medevac from the ship takes you to a hospital on an island and then you need a medevac from there). Repatriation of remains is also an expense that is covered by most medevac coverage. 

 

Another thing that I forgot to say in my previous reply is even with medical insurance the hospital is going to want payment up front and then you will file for reimbursement. A lot of people think that it's fine if you have coverage, but that might not be the case.

[mrgabriel]

Do you use a credit card that covers any losses?

 

We don't usually buy travel insurance because our credit card provides some coverage. Same with medical insurance. Our Platinum Amex card provides a lot of coverage for pretty much everything. If you travel a lot, it might be worth looking into coverage provided by credit card companies. Although there's an annual fee, we've figured out that it's less than the cost of buying other insurance. 

[klfrodo]

My State allows me to buy a limited policy that includes a waiver for pre-existing conditions. (Some policies/States require you to cover all non-refundable trip expenses)

Medical exposure could financially ruin me while the basic cost of the trip does not. Therefore, I insure the cost of the trip at $500 per person and still receive the maximum "primary" medical coverage that I'm comfortable with. At our ages, this coverage comes to about $70 per trip.

Why the trip cost of $500 you ask? $0 - $500 is the same price. $501, the cost increases. By selecting $500, this gives me 150% of insured cost to cover meals and hotels in case of any delays or interruptions in route. If I price at $1, that gives me $1.50. $500 gives me up to $750 at no additional cost.

For emergency purposes, I have a high limit credit card. The policy I purchase, should my limit be exceeded, the policy will grant either payment up front over and above my limit, or a letter of ability to pay.

Edited March 22, 2023 by klfrodo

[Flatbush Flyer]

22 hours ago, mrgabriel said:

Do you use a credit card that covers any losses?

 

We don't usually buy travel insurance because our credit card provides some coverage. Same with medical insurance. Our Platinum Amex card provides a lot of coverage for pretty much everything. If you travel a lot, it might be worth looking into coverage provided by credit card companies. Although there's an annual fee, we've figured out that it's less than the cost of buying other insurance. 

With a very few exceptions, CC included insurance has no PEC waiver and the claim limits are woefully inadequate for longer and/or premium/luxury cruises (e.g., five $ figures).

[mrgabriel]

2 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

With a very few exceptions, CC included insurance has no PEC waiver and the claim limits are woefully inadequate for longer and/or premium/luxury cruises (e.g., five $ figures).

 

It certainly depends on the credit card you use. 

 

It's  always worth checking first before you spend money on an insurance policy. If you're employed and receive some insurance, there may be coverage there, too. 

[Jersey42]

3 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

With a very few exceptions, CC included insurance has no PEC waiver and the claim limits are woefully inadequate for longer and/or premium/luxury cruises (e.g., five $ figures).

 

1 hour ago, mrgabriel said:

It certainly depends on the credit card you use. 

It's  always worth checking first before you spend money on an insurance policy.

I am curious if the terms and conditions on the Canadian Amex Platinum card are better than those for the United States card? With the US card:

• No medical
• No coverage for pre-existing conditions for you or non traveling family members.  There is a 60 day lookback period.
• Trip cancelation coverage is for seven listed reasons.
• Maximum cancelation or interruption coverage is $10K per trip and $20K per year.

 

We do rely on credit card insurance for some trips, and not for others.  I have looked at a lot of cards in the US for travel insurance benefits.  I have yet to find one that:

• has a pre-existing conditions waiver
• covers more than $2,500 in medical
• covers more than $10K per trip for cancelation/interruption

 

If you are aware of any US card that covers PEC or more than $10K per trip please share. If you are only aware of Canadian card(s), sharing that may help other Canadians reading this thread.

[mrgabriel]

3 hours ago, Jersey42 said:

 

I am curious if the terms and conditions on the Canadian Amex Platinum card are better than those for the United States card? With the US card:

• No medical
• No coverage for pre-existing conditions for you or non traveling family members.  There is a 60 day lookback period.
• Trip cancelation coverage is for seven listed reasons.
• Maximum cancelation or interruption coverage is $10K per trip and $20K per year.

 

We do rely on credit card insurance for some trips, and not for others.  I have looked at a lot of cards in the US for travel insurance benefits.  I have yet to find one that:

• has a pre-existing conditions waiver
• covers more than $2,500 in medical
• covers more than $10K per trip for cancelation/interruption

 

If you are aware of any US card that covers PEC or more than $10K per trip please share. If you are only aware of Canadian card(s), sharing that may help other Canadians reading this thread.

 

We don't have pre-existing conditions and are under 65 so these are not conditions that I have looked into. In a few years 😉 We are also fortunate to be in the situation where we don't need to have 100% of our travel costs covered by insurance. That day will certainly come, and then we will look at private insurance available in Canada.

 

My Amex covers up to $5MM medical outside of the province/country. And actually, my U.S. Delta Amex has very similar coverage. 

 

[jclinard]

I would prefer to not insure the costs of items with limits on the losses.  Losses from air transport, hotel rooms, and cruises are limited to the amount I paid (or, generally, prepaid).  Given the difficulty in collecting (I read the policies and came to the conclusion that they'd pay if I died, but in that case I would not need the money, and my heirs would not know to collect), but there are almost no other ways to collect.

 

Medical is different.  

[GeezerCouple]

45 minutes ago, jclinard said:

I would prefer to not insure the costs of items with limits on the losses.  Losses from air transport, hotel rooms, and cruises are limited to the amount I paid (or, generally, prepaid).  Given the difficulty in collecting (I read the policies and came to the conclusion that they'd pay if I died, but in that case I would not need the money, and my heirs would not know to collect), but there are almost no other ways to collect.

 

Medical is different.  

 

You keep complaining about the "difficulty in collecting" without recognizing that there are a few common reasons for the times claims are denied.

1) The "event" causing the loss was never covered by the insurance in the first place.  This requires careful reading of the policy, or discussions with a *good* agent or broker.  We feel that a broker is best, as they can help one compare policies to help find the best fit, rather than needing to sell coverage from one insurer.

2) Receipts aren't sent.  The insurers have a right to documentation that the claims are valid, to do their best to prevent fraud.

3) Refusal to release medical records.  IF someone has a policy with any medical restrictions, that means that IF there is a claim based on a medical reason, the insurer can - and probably will - need to double check that the claim isn't based on something restricted.  If one doesn't want to submit former records, get a policy without any medical restrictions (get the waiver of the pre-existing condition exclusion).  Then what was in your old records is simply irrelevant.

4) Use an insurer that doesn't have a history of making collecting on claims difficult.  Also, working with an agent/broker can help here IF there are any snafus about collecting. 

(There is no extra charge to use an agent or a broker.)

 

We are among those who have had quite a few claims, something we certainly wish had not needed to happen.  They have ranged from a few big ones to medium, and a few small claims.  It's the big ones that matter.

Yes, we can "afford" to lose the trip costs.  We wouldn't have paid for the trips if we couldn't have afforded them.  However, we do NOT relish the thought of "paying yet again" to take that trip that we paid for but didn't get to take.  Some of these are well into 5 figures.

 

Our first "big trip" since our honeymoon some years ago, was a cruise shortly after we discovered CC.  Fortunately, we also discovered Travel Insurance here! [Thank you again!!]

At the last moment, we had to cancel everything, with zero refund with *everything* already paid.  All we can say is that as we did our "alternate travel" among medical providers, several times we looked at each other and murmured, "Thanks *goodness* we won't need to pay AGAIN to take this trip later!"

We are convinced that if we had lost that amount, we probably would have been so turned off that we may never have. booked a "big trip" again, or certainly not one with non-refundable costs.  And... we would have missed out on some of our very best life experiences!  Some of the trips we since took were... VERY SPECIAL to us.  Incredible.  We would have missed out on so much had we decided, "no more expensive travel for us!"

 

The *only* claim we had "trouble with", and never collected" was for the *tip* on two small taxi fares.  I didn't get receipts!  Duh on me!  Nope, I didn't fight the insurer.  It was such a tiny sum, and I learned, yes, GET those receipts, even the little ones.  Total was less than $10 for both tips.  Again, *not* worth the aggravation of arguing, so we'll never know if we could have "won".

This is of a total well into 5 figures, with none of that total needing any argument.  None.

And for all of the rest of the claims, there was never a reason to complain in the first place!

 

And nope, we do not remember the "color of the check" they sent.  The checks tended to arrive within just a couple of weeks (2 or 3) of submitting the claims plus all documentation.  The checks cleared, which is more important than the color of the check stock.  [For those now following, jclinard tends to comment in travel insurance complaints that he only wants to hear from those who know the color of the check that the insurer uses.  I understand his more general point, and I AGREE.  It's of limited help knowing about the "customer service" if no claim has been made.  However, IF there is any difficulty at the purchasing step, I certainly wouldn't be inclined to use that insurer, lest things be similar or worse if there were to be a claim!  It is indeed how a CLAIM is handled that matters.  That, PLUS... any assistance that is needed mid-trip, such as when one is in hospital in a foreign country, or such.]

 

The point is:  Make sure you are getting the *right* coverage, and from an insurer who is known to pay promptly and without nonsense.

It IS that simple.

 

Despite our satisfaction with our travel insurance (all through Travel Insured, purchased through TripInsuranceStore.com), we do wish we had never needed to make those claims and that we could instead be "complaining" that we had "not needed" the insurance!  But alas, one can't know that in advance... 😉 

 

GC

[jclinard]

You've missed the point.  

 

I've pulled up the last policy I bought. 

 

The first item is regarding losing baggage.  Everything I really need (medical equipment / prescriptions, electronics) is in my carry on.  The cash value of my clothing isn't very high.  The bigger problem would be replacing the items, but they don't offer a personal shopper to do so.

 

The second item is baggage delay.  Same issues.

 

The third and fourth items relate to medical and medical transport.  I've repeatedly stated that medical insurance should be purchased.

 

The fifth and sixth item is trip delay coverage / trip interruption.  Most of the qualifying events are not applicable, such as being called to military duty.  Delays aren't really a concern as I always travel a few days in advance of sailing.  Certain disasters / terrorism / war from the port of embarkation is likely to have the cruise canceled, in which case I can collect a refund (for both air and sea travel) from the cruise line (I learned to use their air services to cove this)  Death is unimportant as I don't need the money if I'm dead.  Sickness / injury, unhabitable house, or theft of passports are the remaining items that are would be covered.  The latter is unlikely as I keep my passport in a secure place.  I live in an area that has a low risk of natural disasters.  This pretty much leaves sickness / injury, or getting in a car wreck on my way to the airport.

 

My next planned trip has total cost of around $8,000, including airfare, cruise cost, and pre-booked hotel.  That would be the limit of my loss in the event I'm too sick or injured to travel.  I can afford that.  If I'm too sick or injured to travel, I wouldn't relish the thought of trying to file an insurance claim when I'm in that condition either.

 

[klfrodo]

6 hours ago, jclinard said:

You've missed the point.  

 

I've pulled up the last policy I bought. 

 

The first item is regarding losing baggage.  Everything I really need (medical equipment / prescriptions, electronics) is in my carry on.  The cash value of my clothing isn't very high.  The bigger problem would be replacing the items, but they don't offer a personal shopper to do so.

 

The second item is baggage delay.  Same issues.

 

The third and fourth items relate to medical and medical transport.  I've repeatedly stated that medical insurance should be purchased.

 

The fifth and sixth item is trip delay coverage / trip interruption.  Most of the qualifying events are not applicable, such as being called to military duty.  Delays aren't really a concern as I always travel a few days in advance of sailing.  Certain disasters / terrorism / war from the port of embarkation is likely to have the cruise canceled, in which case I can collect a refund (for both air and sea travel) from the cruise line (I learned to use their air services to cove this)  Death is unimportant as I don't need the money if I'm dead.  Sickness / injury, unhabitable house, or theft of passports are the remaining items that are would be covered.  The latter is unlikely as I keep my passport in a secure place.  I live in an area that has a low risk of natural disasters.  This pretty much leaves sickness / injury, or getting in a car wreck on my way to the airport.

 

My next planned trip has total cost of around $8,000, including airfare, cruise cost, and pre-booked hotel.  That would be the limit of my loss in the event I'm too sick or injured to travel.  I can afford that.  If I'm too sick or injured to travel, I wouldn't relish the thought of trying to file an insurance claim when I'm in that condition either.

 

Here's my take away.

Over the last couple of years, you've learned a ton over what is covered, what is not covered, and the expectations therein. You've learned that there are coverages that are important to you and there are coverages where you have decided that you can absorb potential losses.

I believe, that like me, when I first adulted and purchased travel insurance that it was all inclusive. Something happens, you call the travel insurance company, and they just make everything right and off you go. Fortunately, for myself, I figured it out BEFORE anything happened. For you, you had the misfortune of finding out the hard way and you were disillusioned and upset and figured the whole industry is a shell game. And, in a way, it is. However, this forum has taught me how the game is played and how to play the game that is most advantageous to me. Just as in banking, real estate, and any other business transaction.

Edited March 24, 2023 by klfrodo

[Sigyn]

On 3/22/2023 at 10:44 AM, mrgabriel said:

Do you use a credit card that covers any losses?

 

We don't usually buy travel insurance because our credit card provides some coverage. Same with medical insurance. Our Platinum Amex card provides a lot of coverage for pretty much everything. If you travel a lot, it might be worth looking into coverage provided by credit card companies. Although there's an annual fee, we've figured out that it's less than the cost of buying other insurance. 

Great point! I have a platinum AmEx that I use for most of my purchases. 

[jclinard]

3 hours ago, klfrodo said:

Here's my take away.

Over the last couple of years, you've learned a ton over what is covered, what is not covered, and the expectations therein. You've learned that there are coverages that are important to you and there are coverages where you have decided that you can absorb potential losses.

I believe, that like me, when I first adulted and purchased travel insurance that it was all inclusive. Something happens, you call the travel insurance company, and they just make everything right and off you go. Fortunately, for myself, I figured it out BEFORE anything happened. For you, you had the misfortune of finding out the hard way and you were disillusioned and upset and figured the whole industry is a shell game. And, in a way, it is. However, this forum has taught me how the game is played and how to play the game that is most advantageous to me. Just as in banking, real estate, and any other business transaction.

 

As you can see, I went over the policy and isolated the conditions on which I MIGHT be able to collect from the insurance company.  Under those conditions, I've made no claims. 

 

I'm unconvinced they will pay out claims resulting from sickness / injury.  The specifics in the policy require a written doctor opinion that my condition prevents me from traveling.  It might be easy to claim if I'm in an iron lung, but not so easy if I have a broken hand.  Even if the purpose of my trip is to play piano at Carnegie Hall.  Same with a broken leg, and going on a Caribbean cruise where my main activity was supposed to be scuba diving.  They will take the position that the injury does not prevent travel and refuse to pay.

 

For all my research and examination of policies, I'm constantly pooh-poohed, even when I tell people not to take recommendations from people who only know the firm quality by how quickly they cashed the checks for the premiums (rather than how quickly / completely they paid a claim).  Which is their right, though I can't really figure that out.

 

 

 

 

 

[klfrodo]

53 minutes ago, jclinard said:

 

As you can see, I went over the policy and isolated the conditions on which I MIGHT be able to collect from the insurance company.  Under those conditions, I've made no claims. 

 

I'm unconvinced they will pay out claims resulting from sickness / injury.  The specifics in the policy require a written doctor opinion that my condition prevents me from traveling.  It might be easy to claim if I'm in an iron lung, but not so easy if I have a broken hand.  Even if the purpose of my trip is to play piano at Carnegie Hall.  Same with a broken leg, and going on a Caribbean cruise where my main activity was supposed to be scuba diving.  They will take the position that the injury does not prevent travel and refuse to pay.

 

For all my research and examination of policies, I'm constantly pooh-poohed, even when I tell people not to take recommendations from people who only know the firm quality by how quickly they cashed the checks for the premiums (rather than how quickly / completely they paid a claim).  Which is their right, though I can't really figure that out.

 

 

 

 

 

Then you're only comprehending what you want to see and are pooh poohing all the stories of those who successfully filed claims for their illnesses and injuries.

I was trying to throw some props your way, but,,, I'm done. On the block list you go.

Some can be helped, others,,,, not so much

[jclinard]

Whatever.  I did my homework, presented my concerns, and we'll have to agree to disagree on whether spending $350 to $500 on premiums to protect an $8000 trip (which I only used as that's my upcoming one) is a prudent purchase.  

 

 

 

 

[SPacificbound]

Medical, not travel. We consider the travel part as self insure.

[Flatbush Flyer]

On 3/24/2023 at 12:02 PM, jclinard said:

 

As you can see, I went over the policy and isolated the conditions on which I MIGHT be able to collect from the insurance company.  Under those conditions, I've made no claims. 

 

I'm unconvinced they will pay out claims resulting from sickness / injury.  The specifics in the policy require a written doctor opinion that my condition prevents me from traveling.  It might be easy to claim if I'm in an iron lung, but not so easy if I have a broken hand.  Even if the purpose of my trip is to play piano at Carnegie Hall.  Same with a broken leg, and going on a Caribbean cruise where my main activity was supposed to be scuba diving.  They will take the position that the injury does not prevent travel and refuse to pay.

 

For all my research and examination of policies, I'm constantly pooh-poohed, even when I tell people not to take recommendations from people who only know the firm quality by how quickly they cashed the checks for the premiums (rather than how quickly / completely they paid a claim).  Which is their right, though I can't really figure that out.

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds like you need to get a new MD.

[GeezerCouple]

On 3/25/2023 at 11:08 PM, Flatbush Flyer said:

Sounds like you need to get a new MD.

This, for sure!

 

Also perhaps, check a bit on what medical documentation has in fact been accepted for full refunds due to medical reasons.  We are among many who have had these claims accepted several times, and without nonsense, for large claims.

And all I can say is, none of our claims involved iron lungs.  Or anything remotely like that.  None of the claims required burdensome records.  And none of the claims were "challenged", although I'm sure the insurer could request more information, if they felt that was necessary.

Each claim required that a physician fill out a very *short* form giving the medical reason, and then also (sometimes) include a bit of corroborating documentation.  For example, when there was a medical emergency for DH - on our first insured trip - all that was required was the signed form including a written description of the medical condition from the physician.  Ooops, there was a "complication"... the physician forgot to sign it!  So we had to request another copy with his signature, which was simple.  (That was, of course, not the fault of the *insurer*!)

 

The most recent full refund for medical reason was due to very elderly MIL landing in hospital shortly before our planned departure.  We had hoped (and hoped) that she'd improve enough that we could still go, which was also *her* strong preference.  At almost the last minute, the cardiologist told DH something like, "I think you should stay *here* now!"  So we did.  That claim included the same short physician form, and a page or two from MIL's medical record (some test results in this case) to document her condition.

 

Note:  I have read here (on CC) of people who were seemingly incensed that they were expected to "share protected medical information" (some complaints even invoking HIPAA).  Nope, it's NOT *required* that you share any such "protected"* medical record documentation.  However, it's also NOT *required* that the insurer pay the claim if you haven't submitted the documentation as required per the terms of the coverage.  If one is going to object, then absolutely, don't waste any money on insurance if one won't complete one's own side of the agreement (which is spelled out clearly in every copy of the travel insurance terms and conditions that we've ever had).

*To be clear, HIPAA in NO way prohibits someone from sharing one's OWN medical records.

 

GC

 

[jclinard]

Oh, I suddenly understand.  The issue is I'm not old.  Old people can probably get doctor's notes that a broken limb or other kind of mishap makes them ineligible for travel.  They also tend to travel with other people, multiplying the odds somebody will be too infirm to travel.

 

As I'm not eligible for Social Security and travel alone, I only have myself to worry about, and my doctor will have a very hard time writing a note that says a broken bone means I need to be home resting.  If I was a geriatric patient, it would get a lot easier to declare me too feeble to travel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GeezerCouple]

8 hours ago, jclinard said:

Oh, I suddenly understand.  The issue is I'm not old.  Old people can probably get doctor's notes that a broken limb or other kind of mishap makes them ineligible for travel.  They also tend to travel with other people, multiplying the odds somebody will be too infirm to travel.

 

As I'm not eligible for Social Security and travel alone, I only have myself to worry about, and my doctor will have a very hard time writing a note that says a broken bone means I need to be home resting.  If I was a geriatric patient, it would get a lot easier to declare me too feeble to travel.

 

My last post about this.

A broken bone is almost *guaranteed* to get you a paid travel insurance claim.

You don't need to be "home in bed" to be unable to travel.

(Our first claim was for DH's eye emergency.  He did most of the driving to and from all of the assorted medical appointments.  He worked most of the time we would have been traveling.  Although he is, yes, "older" - indeed, I suppose "geriatric" although he's still at the same University now helping with a new graduate program - the medical problem was not an "age" problem.)

 

You are convinced.  You should *not* get travel insurance!

Please don't dissuade others who may actually benefit from it.  You've made your point about your beliefs.

 

What color ink did those travel insurer claim denials you received use?

 

GC

[jclinard]

I appreciate your honestly in conceding the points I made, notably that it wasn't you who had the medical issue, rather, it was your elderly husband.  I know it takes a big person to admit my points where correct.  You have my respect on that.

 

Oh, and the answer to your question is black, but only because my denials were done in e-mail.  There wasn't any special formatting (for boldness, underlines, font choices, and font color), so that's really more of an issue as to my e-mail client's settings than a deliberate color choice.  

 

Cheers,