Is Royal Caribbean building any small ships?

[ScubaCat3]

For what it is worth, at several recent Top Tier events I have heard two different captains say that Royal's next new larger ship (Icon) was originally planned to be a smaller ship. According to them the ship designers came up with so many things they wanted to add that the only way it would all fit was to make the ship larger. So they were at least thinking about a smaller ship at one point.

[latebuyer]

Thanks both. I'm hoping the next ship royal caribbean builds is smaller. How big is a 130K ship? Is that 5000 people?

[Another_Critic]

9 minutes ago, latebuyer said:

Thanks both. I'm hoping the next ship royal caribbean builds is smaller. How big is a 130K ship? Is that 5000 people?

Radiance Class is 90k GT - 2100 to 2500 passengers 

Voyager Class is 138k GT - 3100 to 4000 passengers

[Tatka]

12 minutes ago, latebuyer said:

Thanks both. I'm hoping the next ship royal caribbean builds is smaller. How big is a 130K ship? Is that 5000 people?

 

5000 is between Quantum 165K tons and Oasis 225K tons.

[c-leg5]

2 hours ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

Also i may be wrong but it seems the vast majority of royal ships sale to the same ports around the Carribbean, so whilst they allow huge ships it makes sence to build em and fill them and quick turn arounds. 

There is a physical limitation as to how far you can go, there and back, in a week or short break.
 

Longer cruises go to different ports but then you are generally looking at a different consumer group.

[Rogueperson]

Smaller ships won't go out of style, but Royal and other Main line cruise companies prefer the larger ships as they cost less per passenger to operate. 

 

What I can see happening is that small scale ships may get shifted to another company under Royal's umbrella so the company can monetize smaller cruise ships without losing out.  If you look at anything that is considered "luxury", (Silverseas, Seabourne, Viking), you're not going to see anything bigger than 50K.  Viking's new ocean cruise ships are only 47K gross tons that cater to less than 1000 passengers.  Silversea is Royal's luxury brand.  Their brand new ships, hit 40K and cater to less than 600 passengers.  

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, taglovestocruise said:

Another decade and most small ships will be gone. Ports have two choices, mega ships or nothing. Ports are doomed. 

Small ships are being built just not for the mainstream cruise lines.

 

Many ports can't take larger ships. If the mainstream cruise lines won't build smaller ships some company will fill the void. Fares may be higher but so will quality.

[ONECRUISER]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

Sovereign was once the mega ship of the seas.  Back then people couldn't fathom anything larger.   

Agree, Sovereign was the first "Mega" Cruise Ship and Largest Cruise Ship at the time. Was on her then in 1988 looking down on the Tiny Carnival, NCL and Princess Love Boat sized Ships. All these holding about 1/4 passengers what Sovereign was. She was Huge compared to others. Funny thing is most my Caribbean Stops then through 90's were Tender ports when most(might been all) Royal Ships inc Voyager Class were carrying their own Tenders. Now with Island stops having these can't remember now last time I was on a Royal Tender.

[SF Cfan]

6 hours ago, latebuyer said:

I'm a little concerned what is going to happen if these small ships like the radiance class age out and i'm wondering if royal caribbean is building new ones. Not all of us like these big ships. I'm also from Vancouver and the big ships can't go under the bridge.

You are not kidding.  The Oasis class ships, like Ovation OTS can make it under the Lion's Gate Bridge, but only at low tide with the funnel lowered.  It is a lot of fun to be up on deck for that occasion however.

 

[latebuyer]

Wow! I never knew Ovation sailed from vancouver. I know some of the 3000 passenger ships can fit under the bridge as celebrity eclipse was at canada place when i was there. I posted to the princess board and someone knew it was the rotterdam (holland america) that was built in 2021. It is 3200 passengers so not that small but i think i'd feel ok on that size. Apparently princess has a lot of debt from covid and they aren't building ships right now.

 

Please keep us posted when whoever hears about the next ship Royal Caribbean is building.

[SF Cfan]

35 minutes ago, SF Cfan said:

You are not kidding.  The Oasis class ships, like Ovation OTS can make it under the Lion's Gate Bridge, but only at low tide with the funnel lowered.  It is a lot of fun to be up on deck for that occasion however.

 

Too late to edit.  Meant to say Quantum Class not Oasis Class.

[lovesthebeach2]

2 hours ago, ONECRUISER said:

Agree, Sovereign was the first "Mega" Cruise Ship and Largest Cruise Ship at the time. Was on her then in 1988 looking down on the Tiny Carnival, NCL and Princess Love Boat sized Ships. All these holding about 1/4 passengers what Sovereign was. She was Huge compared to others. Funny thing is most my Caribbean Stops then through 90's were Tender ports when most(might been all) Royal Ships inc Voyager Class were carrying their own Tenders. Now with Island stops having these can't remember now last time I was on a Royal Tender.

In June of 2002 we cruised for 4th of July on The Pacific Princess aka “The Love Boat” from NY to Bermuda for a 7 day cruise. They had moved the ship to NY from CA for the summer before selling it to another company. If I recall correctly the passenger count for that cruise was about 680! Although it was very old in design (it took us almost the whole week to find a sun deck we had seen but couldn’t figure out how to get to) it was the best cruise we’ve ever been on.  
 

aside from the best food we've ever had on any cruise, what made it so special is that being so small, we got to know everyone on the ship and by the end of the week it was like we cruised with a large family. Plus the cruise director (a British woman with blond hair) was fabulous. We all got to know her and she got to know us.

 

Maybe that family feeling is why we love smaller ships.  On radiance class ships it’s so much easier to see the same people every day around the ship and form friendships that can last beyond that cruise.  That’s hard to do on a mega ship. Royal should think about that when building only mega ships. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by lovesthebeach2

[Ourusualbeach]

4 hours ago, ScubaCat3 said:

For what it is worth, at several recent Top Tier events I have heard two different captains say that Royal's next new larger ship (Icon) was originally planned to be a smaller ship. According to them the ship designers came up with so many things they wanted to add that the only way it would all fit was to make the ship larger. So they were at least thinking about a smaller ship at one point.

That smaller ship started at 200,000 tons and grew from there.  Smaller was only in reference to the Oasis class ships

[volk904]

I think at sone point you will see Royal or Celebrity maybe both build some smaller ships around 3000 passengers to replace the M class and smaller RCL classes. There is too many ports that cannot take the monster ships by port or even passenger volume.  Baltimore, Tampa, Vancouver come to mind. Even Alaska cannot take the Oasis and larger ships.  In theory they could use the same basis design and them modify the common spaces  them to fit each lines needs.  Hi think they are running out of routes for the giant ships.  

[latebuyer]

Here’s the situation in monterey. Cruise ships only allowed via tender

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Monterey-tells-cruise-lines-they-are-not-welcome

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/list-us-port-towns-want-to-limit-ban-cruise-ships-2023-4

 

As i said with more large ships its only going to get worse.

[latebuyer]

Sorry the monterey issue is environmental so the large ships can’t be blamed for that.

[ohcsim123]

We've been cruising for over 30yrs at a rate of 1-2 per year (mostly on the "mainstream" lines with which we're all familiar) and have seen the size inflation as it has progressed. Currently, we have four cruises planned for the next 2 years. We have no "brand loyalty" and book ahead based on price, ship, and itinerary.

 

To this day, our finest overall cruise experiences were on the old Pacific Princess (the Love Boat) which was TINY compared to current standards. Buy, boy did they treat you right! As said by others, the ship spent many years of Summer months sailing back and forth between NYC and Bermuda at a reasonable cost.

 

We must have taken that cruise each summer for six or seven years in a row and, yes, the crew had little turnover so friends were made. The Hostess (not cruise director) was named Joy and we became yearly friends. Yes, she was British. The Mater Dei was named Lorenzo and he expertly ran the place with a firm but consistent hand. I believe he spent his entire career singularly on that ship. Joy was also a "fixture" on the ship for many years but I think Lorenzo was an original crew member.

 

We were on the ship on 911 and sailed past the WTC the day before the attack. It was a beautiful day and we still have a photo with the Twin Towers behind us just 36 hours before they were gone. We were all smiles with some Canadian friends and holding adult beverages. Who knew?

We again sailed on her during her final season just before she was retired and sold. I think that was the year following 911.

 

We love to cruise and our fondest (cruise) memories are from the original Love Boat which was (I believe) only about 26000 tons.

 

John 

[jakeil7]

1 hour ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

In June of 2002 we cruised for 4th of July on The Pacific Princess aka “The Love Boat” from NY to Bermuda for a 7 day cruise. They had moved the ship to NY from CA for the summer before selling it to another company. If I recall correctly the passenger count for that cruise was about 680

 Can I ask what may be considered a rude question?  What did you pay for that trip?

[latebuyer]

Thanks for sharing your memories, John. Sounds like you had a really nice time! I guess we’ll need to adjust to the new reality.

[ONECRUISER]

48 minutes ago, ohcsim123 said:

We love to cruise and our fondest (cruise) memories are from the original Love Boat which was (I believe) only about 26000 tons.

Pacific Princess. Tonnage  20,636 GT

[cruiselvr04]

If Royal wants to stay in the Caribbean and Europe, the big ships going to the same ports will work.  For those who cruise once or maybe twice a year this will satisfy them.  But those who want to travel beyond those ports of call will need smaller ships.  Travelers, not strictly vacationers, will then need to go outside Royal to get to those if the Vision and Radiance class cease to be.  
 

We haven’t jumped ship yet but some of Holland American longer cruises are very inviting.

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, volk904 said:

 Baltimore, Tampa, Vancouver come to mind. Even Alaska cannot take the Oasis and larger ships.  In theory they could use the same basis design and them modify the common spaces  them to fit each lines needs.

They did that with the M class and Radiance Class. Those are the same hull.  

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

5 hours ago, ONECRUISER said:

In June of 2002 we cruised for 4th of July on The Pacific Princess aka “The Love Boat” from NY to Bermuda for a 7 day cruise.

I sailed on her too. She had the best Bermuda itinerary. All three Bermuda ports. St. George’s, Hamilton and the Dockyard. 

[Guest ldtr]

11 hours ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

I think the market is changing for cruise companies. The ship is the destination esp for the weekly cash cows to coco cay.

However that said, there may be a market for more modern smaller ships esp if ports are limiting the number of large ships that can dock.

But i dont think the maths for royals business model adds up for a smaller ship, sub 3k guests. 

Smaller ships mean higher cost per passenger in both construction and operation.  That is why you are seeing them as the domain of the premium and luxury lines, not the mass market lines.

[Guest ldtr]

34 minutes ago, cruiselvr04 said:

If Royal wants to stay in the Caribbean and Europe, the big ships going to the same ports will work.  For those who cruise once or maybe twice a year this will satisfy them.  But those who want to travel beyond those ports of call will need smaller ships.  Travelers, not strictly vacationers, will then need to go outside Royal to get to those if the Vision and Radiance class cease to be.  
 

We haven’t jumped ship yet but some of Holland American longer cruises are very inviting.

That would seem to be exactly why HAL is taking that position.  They have the smallest average ship size of the adult focused mass market lines (HAL, Celebrity, Princess) and are clearly staking out the longest average cruise length on the 3.

 

As ship sizes increase the itineraries tend to shorten over all and the variety of ports tend to shrink.  The routes become frequent repetition of 7 day cruises or shorter going to the same ports.