Please, please help me how do I resolve my problem and clear my name

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Since the contract always favors the company over the customer I am not going to waste time waiting for a change.

Yes, that's why their lawyers get big bucks.

 

[Elaine5715]

22 hours ago, esper10 said:

Hi all

I truly need help and I know that writing you all will give me some ideas.

I’m elite with Carnival but I didn’t cruise with them since the pandemic. I travel with an older mom and was worried about the virus so we cruised other companies for the past couple of years. 
las week my carnival agent called me and talked me into trying carnival again so we booked for next month. The very next day I got an email saying my cruise has been canceled. It didn’t give me a reason or anything. I was so mad. I’m not criminal, I didn’t steal. I keep on getting emails from carnival so what happened????
I made many calls spend a lot of time on the phone with no help. Talked to Resoluton to my agent wrote customer care. I called the lady who they said did the cancellation she never answer. From the little that I learned is during the pandemic I owe $250.00 I thought hard I did cancel a cruise back than and when carnival did return my deposit I called my credit card company and got my money back. At that time everyone one was cancelling and cruise companies were refunding the full amount so I don’t know what happened. Again I still don’t know the reason coming from them but I need to clear my name. To be on a no seal list is no fun. No, I don’t want to cruise with carnival again but I need answers. I never received any letter or email addressing a problem so this came as a shock. I also want to complain but to whom? I wrote customer care and no answer. Accounting doesn’t answer and the agent said he basically didn’t want to call no one for me.

PLEASE HELP ME

When was the cruise you did the chargeback on?  2021?

[StephPS79]

 

33 minutes ago, broberts said:

Many are assuming that the company feels it was owed an amount. If that were so, the company should demand payment. The absence of such a demand makes me think all those making this assumption are in error.

 

No one is assuming, OP stated they were informed they owe $250.

 

22 hours ago, esper10 said:

From the little that I learned is during the pandemic I owe $250.00 I thought hard I did cancel a cruise back than and when carnival did return my deposit I called my credit card company and got my money back.

[aborgman]

1 hour ago, TreyB said:

 

This is a pretty simple case. The OP basically took back money from Carnival that was owed to them. Why would it be a good business practice to offer them services again?

 

 

Clawing back a refund is not taking "back money from Carnival that was owed to them".

Once you've qualified for a refund - that money is NOT Carnival money, and obviously isn't "owed" to them.

 

 

[broberts]

14 minutes ago, StephPS79 said:

 

 

No one is assuming, OP stated they were informed they owe $250.

 

 

Missed that, thanks for clarifying. Still doesn't change the fact that company took a booking, i.e. made a sale, then cancelled.

 

I have no problems with a company refusing to make a sale. My problem, if I understand the circumstances correctly, is that a sale was solicited then agreed to and subsequently cancelled for reasons outside the contract.

[vwrestler171]

8 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Just guessing, but I'm thinking that OP had a non-refundable deposit, which is why Carnival wasn't issuing a refund. $50/$100 would be subtracted from the amount and the remainder would be available as a future credit (the terms of the deposit may have changed since then). This is the main reason for being on the no sail list- had Carnival legitimately owed the OP $250 then it's likely the charge back would likely not have caused this issue. As others have said, the money is still owed to Carnival.

5 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

...and this is partially why there needs to be a contractual obligation on the part of providers to process refunds in less than the credit card chargeback time.

 

A service provider should not be able to refund moneys, but hold on to them beyond the 90 days the credit card companies allow for chargebacks and then punish customer for getting back the money they are owed.

 

Now, if we're talking about a non-refundable deposit and you did a chargeback - it's perfectly legitimate to ban that customer.

 

It doesn't matter, Carnival was giving deposits back due to the shutdown.  Even if it was non-refundable.

 

Yes, there needed to be faster options to receive the refund, but when there were millions of people affected, it isn't as easy as it would seem.

[aborgman]

10 minutes ago, vwrestler171 said:

 

Yes, there needed to be faster options to receive the refund, but when there were millions of people affected, it isn't as easy as it would seem.

 

It's a lot easier when you aren't intentionally holding onto refund money for as long as possible to keep yourself solvent.

 

Some of the delay in refunds was caused by staffing. Most were caused by service providers propping up their business at the expense of their customers. It's legal (because they are good at writing contracts) but unethical.

[Elaine5715]

On 5/25/2021 at 3:38 PM, esper10 said:

We are scheduled to be on the Panorama on Sep. 4th I wonder if they are going to sail or not. I didn’t get any email. I plan to cruise with an elder mother and she is worried not to be on the first few cruises. I called to rebook and was told Carnival allows people to rebook but not cancel. I wonder if any one know if carnival will allow to cancel. Final payment date is June 6. I wonder if any of you heated any thing I would appreciate it 

If the OP is is referring to this 2021 cruise, they were outside of the Carnival cancelling period and it looks like they choose to cancel.  

[ontheweb]

22 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

 

If the OP is is referring to this 2021 cruise, they were outside of the Carnival cancelling period and it looks like they choose to cancel.  

To be precise, he chose to both cancel and involve his credit card company in the cancellation.

[Elaine5715]

17 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

To be precise, he chose to both cancel and involve his credit card company in the cancellation.

Yes, if accurate, this was not during the shutdown

[icft]

On 6/22/2023 at 12:59 PM, esper10 said:

Hi all

I truly need help and I know that writing you all will give me some ideas.

I’m elite with Carnival but I didn’t cruise with them since the pandemic. I travel with an older mom and was worried about the virus so we cruised other companies for the past couple of years. 
las week my carnival agent called me and talked me into trying carnival again so we booked for next month. The very next day I got an email saying my cruise has been canceled. It didn’t give me a reason or anything. I was so mad. I’m not criminal, I didn’t steal. I keep on getting emails from carnival so what happened????
I made many calls spend a lot of time on the phone with no help. Talked to Resoluton to my agent wrote customer care. I called the lady who they said did the cancellation she never answer. From the little that I learned is during the pandemic I owe $250.00 I thought hard I did cancel a cruise back than and when carnival did return my deposit I called my credit card company and got my money back. At that time everyone one was cancelling and cruise companies were refunding the full amount so I don’t know what happened. Again I still don’t know the reason coming from them but I need to clear my name. To be on a no seal list is no fun. No, I don’t want to cruise with carnival again but I need answers. I never received any letter or email addressing a problem so this came as a shock. I also want to complain but to whom? I wrote customer care and no answer. Accounting doesn’t answer and the agent said he basically didn’t want to call no one for me.

PLEASE HELP ME

 

Everything in this post is my opinion and only my opinion.

 

I think your best course of action is to just stay away from Carnival. They, and most of the cruise industry, is on an ethical plane below used car dealers. They don't care about right or wrong; just with what they can get away with. You have to always have that in mind when dealing with them and be ready to walk away. Right now you are not out any money. Be happy about that. There are plenty of other cruise lines.

 

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, icft said:

 

Everything in this post is my opinion and only my opinion.

 

I think your best course of action is to just stay away from Carnival. They, and most of the cruise industry, is on an ethical plane below used car dealers. They don't care about right or wrong; just with what they can get away with. You have to always have that in mind when dealing with them and be ready to walk away. Right now you are not out any money. Be happy about that. There are plenty of other cruise lines.

 

Because they didn't refund a nonrefundable deposit?

[SD dog dad]

At least it's nice to have something new to chat about than dogs, pot and dinner menus!

[klfrodo]

Would be interested in how a professional Sociologist would break down and analyze this thread.

[FastShip24]

On 6/22/2023 at 11:27 AM, esper10 said:

I don’t know what is the problem yet just guessing 

Don't sail with them. End of story

[icft]

18 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Because they didn't refund a nonrefundable deposit?

I don't see where the OP ever said it was a nonrefundable deposit. I do see where the OP says they cancelled a cruise during the pandemic and never got their refund so filed a dispute with the credit card.

 

Two things I would note here. First there were no nonrefundable deposits for cancelled pandemic cruises. If it was a cancelled (by Carnival) pandemic cruise the OP does not owe Carnival anything. In that situation the fact the OP didn't wait for a slow pay to drag into a possible bankruptcy is not unreasonable and in my opinion Carnival punishing him for not letting them put him at risk is unethical.

 

Second, Carnival had the opportunity to respond to the credit card dispute. If it was a nonrefundable deposit then simply saying that would have ended things right there. If they were so overwhelmed they could not respond that would support this being a pandemic cruise and again there were no refundable deposits - the cruise line failed to provide the cruise.

 

I hear lots of sympathy for the "overwhelmed" Carnival being in an "unprecedented" situation and that therefore they should be cut slack for their slow pay and failure to address the credit card dispute. But what about the people suddenly told to stay home or close their businesses who needed their money back? Why shouldn't Carnival cut them some slack and not hold using a credit card dispute to get back what Carnival owed them against them?

 

Carnival, in my opinion, demanded responsibility from customers while failing to meet its responsibilities to customers and I find that unethical.

[StephPS79]

37 minutes ago, icft said:

I don't see where the OP ever said it was a nonrefundable deposit. I do see where the OP says they cancelled a cruise during the pandemic and never got their refund so filed a dispute with the credit card.

 

Two things I would note here. First there were no nonrefundable deposits for cancelled pandemic cruises. If it was a cancelled (by Carnival) pandemic cruise the OP does not owe Carnival anything. In that situation the fact the OP didn't wait for a slow pay to drag into a possible bankruptcy is not unreasonable and in my opinion Carnival punishing him for not letting them put him at risk is unethical.

 

Second, Carnival had the opportunity to respond to the credit card dispute. If it was a nonrefundable deposit then simply saying that would have ended things right there. If they were so overwhelmed they could not respond that would support this being a pandemic cruise and again there were no refundable deposits - the cruise line failed to provide the cruise.

 

I hear lots of sympathy for the "overwhelmed" Carnival being in an "unprecedented" situation and that therefore they should be cut slack for their slow pay and failure to address the credit card dispute. But what about the people suddenly told to stay home or close their businesses who needed their money back? Why shouldn't Carnival cut them some slack and not hold using a credit card dispute to get back what Carnival owed them against them?

 

Carnival, in my opinion, demanded responsibility from customers while failing to meet its responsibilities to customers and I find that unethical.

 

Since we're speculating, as Elaine5715 pointed out, OP posted in regards to a 9/7/2021 cruise with concerns to sail.  Assuming this is the cruise in question (it likely is), I don't believe that cruise was cancelled.

 

It's very rare that companies actually respond to credit card disputes at low amounts.  And having received and worked disputes, a company can respond against the dispute and it's usually still credited back.

 

I don't see anything unethical about a business no longer wanting to do business with a customer that has a history of chargebacks.  That's just smart business.

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by StephPS79

[icft]

13 minutes ago, StephPS79 said:

 

Since we're speculating, as Elaine5715 pointed out, OP posted in regards to a 9/7/2021 cruise with concerns to sail.  Assuming this is the cruise in question (it likely is), I don't believe that cruise was cancelled.

 

It's very rare that companies actually respond to credit card disputes at low amounts.  And having received and worked disputes, a company can respond against the dispute and it's usually still credited back.

 

I don't see anything unethical about a business no longer wanting to do business with a customer that has a history of chargebacks.  That's just smart business.

 

If the cancelled cruise was outside the pandemic window then the situation is not as presented by the OP in this thread and I would agree with you. I see Elaine5715 seems to have found a post by the OP in another thread from May of 2021 that does raise the question. Nice detective work on her part. Respect! (But for many other reasons my opinion of Carnival is the same.)

[Elaine5715]

9 minutes ago, icft said:

If the cancelled cruise was outside the pandemic window then the situation is not as presented by the OP in this thread and I would agree with you. I see Elaine5715 seems to have found a post by the OP in another thread from May of 2021 that does raise the question. Nice detective work on her part. Respect! (But for many other reasons my opinion of Carnival is the same.)

Thank you.  Seems to be a posting pattern of the OP  "please help"  

[jsglow]

5 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

 

If the OP is is referring to this 2021 cruise, they were outside of the Carnival cancelling period and it looks like they choose to cancel.  

Nailed. It. I looked it up. Panorama restarted two weeks prior to the OP's 9/4/21 cruise. Actions have consequences. She simply wasn't owed a refund and Carnival couldn't get to her case in time to contest her credit card claim. When they finally did, they took the only action still available to them.

 

Now a good question at this juncture would be, 'Here's what I did. Is there any way to get off the Do Not Sail' list? That would be a legitimate question. But we haven't seen that, have we?

 

How do you think Judge Judy would rule? 🤔

[broadwaybaby123]

I'm not sure what the cruise level has anything to do with credit card charges, but regardless, it sounds like there's a charge that needs to be disputed with the credit card company.

[2wheelin]

11 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

It's a lot easier when you aren't intentionally holding onto refund money for as long as possible to keep yourself solvent.

 

Some of the delay in refunds was caused by staffing. Most were caused by service providers propping up their business at the expense of their customers. It's legal (because they are good at writing contracts) but unethical.

Citation please. Sounds like an opinion.

[ksmcdonald]

On 6/23/2023 at 8:08 AM, aborgman said:

 

If you're getting close to the 90 day mark - I wouldn't call it impatience.

 

Past 90 days, if they decide to keep that refund and never give it back to you - you're just out the money absent a lawsuit.

 

.One will note that the ticket contract provides lots of deadlines on the customer for requesting refunds - but none on Carnival. They could take YEARS to process your refund if they desired.

I always wondered why Carnival can put a charge on your credit card and it shows up immediately, but it takes longer than 90 days to refund?  It is just a key stroke on their end. During the pandemic, just think of the interest Carnival was making holding on to many, many people’s fully paid cruise for months.  If they can charge your card immediately, then 5-7 business days should be sufficient to reimburse.  
 

 

[aborgman]

7 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

Citation please. Sounds like an opinion.

 

Numerous airlines were fined 10s of millions of dollars for it.

 

...and the Federal Maritime Commission  amended its regulations governing non-performance by Passenger Vessel Operators in April 2022 specifically because of cruise line shenanigans related to refunds during the pandemic.

[aborgman]

2 minutes ago, ksmcdonald said:

I always wondered why Carnival can put a charge on your credit card and it shows up immediately, but it takes longer than 90 days to refund?

 

 

It doesn't.

 

It's not a bug, it's a feature (to Carnival).

 

Same reason when a business buys something net 30, they aren't paying until day 30.