How Crowded Is Europe Right Now?

[AtlantaCruiser72]

The line for the Vatican begins in Luxembourg. The line for the Louie begins in Monaco. It’s somewhere near Strasbourg one must decide which they want to visit. 
 

On a serious note - the number of tourists in Europe is up to at or above pre Covid levels in the major tourist areas.  Meanwhile, staffing still is below pre Covid levels in almost all hospitality sectors. There have been, and still are, multiple labor disruptions (strikes/work actions) that affect tourism industries.  Some facilities still have not (or simply will not) reopened. All this places strain on the entire tourism infrastructure. 

[OlsSalt]

No one goes to Europe in August. There are too many people there. 

(To revive an old joke.)

 

Lived in a lake resort town in Italy for a few years, and even in the 1960's we never went to town during July and August - mainly hordes of Dutch and German tourists at that time.  When all of France is on vacation for the whole month of August, that becomes a very impacted travel month.

[Haljo1935]

9 hours ago, FlaMariner said:

 

Yea...I saw that and we've tried to figure a way to make that work.....Incredible price.  Problem is it departs Thanksgiving weekend......

It does - I'm so looking forward to it. Leaving the crazy American Thanksgiving travel behind sounds like something I can be thankful for, lol.

[HappyInVan]

I'm grateful that I'm skipping Europe in 2022/3. Lots of airport problems and over-crowding. There's the droughts and wildfires.

 

The biggest factor is the cost of air travel. Unbelievable prices to cross the Atlantic.

[daisybertie]

Amsterdam was very crowded, and Schiphol Airport was an absolute nightmare. We missed our connection in Frankfurt because of the queues of people being herded through border control. Ports in Norway were busy, but did not feel overwhelming. If we ever come to Europe again we will choose the off season!

[PACD_JG]

7 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

No one goes to Europe in August. There are too many people there. 

(To revive an old joke.)

 

Lived in a lake resort town in Italy for a few years, and even in the 1960's we never went to town during July and August - mainly hordes of Dutch and German tourists at that time.  When all of France is on vacation for the whole month of August, that becomes a very impacted travel month.

Yep...lived in Germany for 4 years.  August travel was always verboten.

[grapau27]

16 minutes ago, daisybertie said:

Amsterdam was very crowded, and Schiphol Airport was an absolute nightmare. We missed our connection in Frankfurt because of the queues of people being herded through border control. Ports in Norway were busy, but did not feel overwhelming. If we ever come to Europe again we will choose the off season!

May and early-mid October are the best month's to visit the Mediterranean Ports.

The heat and humidity is bearable and you avoid school holidays too.

[Hlitner]

My message to the OP is qutie simple.  First, read Cruisemom's post and take it to the bank.  and Second, you are talking about visiting major cruise ports (tourist destinations) in the heart of the season (July-August) which means everything tourist will be crowded.  If you are going to be the typical tourist and go to the typical tourist things you are going to be in crowds and must deal with queues  On the other hand, you could be a more contrarian traveler and plan some of your days to go to places and do things that are much less popular.    This is the time of year when DW and I used to love relaxing at outdoor cafes in places like Rome and Paris, and people watching the big tour groups (who often looked worn out and miserable) as they stuck with their groups.  But these days, for folks in Italy, Greece (and some other countries) it would be wise to spend more time indoors due to the heat.

 

Perhaps this is a good thread to talk abouit being a bit contrarian.  For example, while Italy and Greece are dealing with the heat of July-August, it is dry, sunny, and comfortable in Lisbop (and much of Portugal.  Northern Europe has comfy temperatures (Copenhagen has only been in the 70s) and is also a popular tourist destination.  But if you go to the Med in July-August you must be prepared for heat.

 

Hank

[FlaMariner]

7 hours ago, Haljo1935 said:

Leaving the crazy American Thanksgiving travel behind sounds like something I can be thankful for,

 

It's not the crazy travel I'm concerned about..actually, air fares were low to Europe when I checked......it's the crazy family....LOL....Although we could bolt the day after Black Friday and say "see y'all later"...so tempting....LOL

[newtocruiseinblue]

21 hours ago, JeffElizabeth said:

Last year we were lucky and took a long Mediterranean cruise in March and April. It was so nice to not be overwhelmed with other tourists.  For many of our guides, it was their first work in two years. The only place we felt crowded was Venice. 

How crowded are the popular sites now? I read that Chinese tourists are back, and more Americans are returning too. 

We will be on Voyage of the Vikings this month and I was just curious how bad is it right now?

Returned yesterday from 5 nights in Athens and 7 night Greece and Turkey on Celebrity. The cruise ship will be your haven. Yes, things are crowded and it is hot. But less hot where you are going. I was in Amsterdam and Scotland in April-May. Uber was amazing in Amsterdam and Athens. Never waited long. In Amsterdam most of the Ubers are Teslas as they are very big into electronic vehicles there. In Athens most of the Ubers are taxi cabs and by using the Uber app we were never ripped off by a taxi cab. I also found it helpful to avoid the crowds by taking shore excursions through the ship as most of these tour guides know how to avoid the crowds and you get transportation directly off the ship. Overall, you will be fine bc you are CRUISING! I found it much harder the five days that we were in Athens before our cruise walking around all day and finding restaurants etc. versus being on the ship. Just remember to ENJOY and you will. None of us are promised tomorrow. 

[Lakesregion]

On 7/16/2023 at 12:01 PM, JeffElizabeth said:

Last year we were lucky and took a long Mediterranean cruise in March and April. It was so nice to not be overwhelmed with other tourists.  For many of our guides, it was their first work in two years. The only place we felt crowded was Venice. 

How crowded are the popular sites now? I read that Chinese tourists are back, and more Americans are returning too. 

We will be on Voyage of the Vikings this month and I was just curious how bad is it right now?

Best way is to hire a private car and driver who knows all of the prime spots you wish to visit. Then they can arange  private visits to all the locatios.Its done all the time. .Costs a ton of money but then you do want to be exclusive and not mix with the "tourists"

[CarlaMarie]

On 7/16/2023 at 5:40 PM, VMax1700 said:

It's bad.  Made worse by trained staff shortages and the numbers of refugees and immigrants.

(not a political statement but unfortunate facts)

 

They are very unfortunate facts especially the latter part. For those who are not aware, even ports in Britain are to feel the affects (particularly Portland Port).

[cruisemom42]

10 hours ago, Lakesregion said:

Best way is to hire a private car and driver who knows all of the prime spots you wish to visit. Then they can arange  private visits to all the locatios.Its done all the time. .Costs a ton of money but then you do want to be exclusive and not mix with the "tourists"

 

I assume (hope?) this was meant to be tongue in cheek. One reason I like to do things on my own while traveling (e.g., use local buses, subway, trains where possible to get myself around) is to avoid traveling in that bubble that a lot of tourists have where the only real interaction they have during a port visit is probably with their bus tour guide a driver.

 

As Rick Steves famously said, it's hard to get a sense of a place with your face pressed against the window of a bus.

 

[OlsSalt]

In defense of HAL shore excursions- hard to get a sense of a place during a 6 hour port stop in the first place.  So no mileage gained by putting down HAL bus tours. Getting the broadest overview from a bus tour is not a bad option when time in port is so inherently limited. Plus many a candid comment from the tour guides often reveals more insights  about a country than one might initially appreciate.

 

We like the convenience of HAL shore excursions at this point in our lives, and put up with the various drawbacks which are quite manageable simply because virtually all fellow HAL bus tour passengers are polite, well-mannered, interested in where they are going, honor the required timelines and are good travel companions. 

 

I think it is great HAL provides the simplest bus tour surveys of a port stop, which accommodate those with limited mobility, as well as a good array of more active and farther afield choices to pack as much as possible  during these limited time exposures we get when choosing to travel by cruise ships.

 

Yes, I was a back packer, lived in Europe for four years, traveled to over 150 countries - Travel Century Club Silver, been around the world many times, studied abroad, and now in my four score years, I am glad HAL provides their very good bus tours so I can keep going.

 

I compare them to my prior decades of independent travel. I am not duped by them, nor do I feel short-changed. They are what they are. Thank you HAL for the many adventures you added to my extended travel experiences. Loved them all.

 

Even the ones when we had to protest --- "no we did not want to visit the guide's uncles souvenirs shop - best prices, best prices". HAL lets you know up front if there will be "shopping experiences" or not. When you choose a tour that does not include this diversion, those on board have insisted they do not get snuck in. No problems. Done in good spirts, and reminds you about any country that welcomes day tripper tourism. Which is what we are. 

[JeffElizabeth]

Great points. Some of our best experiences on our cruises were the three days we spent in the ports before and after our actual cruises. Get a much better sense of the communities.  Overnight stops are also great. Don't feel rushed. 

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, OlsSalt said:

In defense of HAL shore excursions- hard to get a sense of a place during a 6 hour port stop in the first place.  So no mileage gained by putting down HAL bus tours. Getting the broadest overview from a bus tour is not a bad option when time in port is so inherently limited. Plus many a candid comment from the tour guides often reveals more insights  about a country than one might initially appreciate.

 

We like the convenience of HAL shore excursions at this point in our lives, and put up with the various drawbacks which are quite manageable simply because virtually all fellow HAL bus tour passengers are polite, well-mannered, interested in where they are going, honor the required timelines and are good travel companions. 

 

I think it is great HAL provides the simplest bus tour surveys of a port stop, which accommodate those with limited mobility, as well as a good array of more active and farther afield choices to pack as much as possible  during these limited time exposures we get when choosing to travel by cruise ships.

 

Yes, I was a back packer, lived in Europe for four years, traveled to over 150 countries - Travel Century Club Silver, been around the world many times, studied abroad, and now in my four score years, I am glad HAL provides their very good bus tours so I can keep going.

 

I compare them to my prior decades of independent travel. I am not duped by them, nor do I feel short-changed. They are what they are. Thank you HAL for the many adventures you added to my extended travel experiences. Loved them all.

 

Even the ones when we had to protest --- "no we did not want to visit the guide's uncles souvenirs shop - best prices, best prices". HAL lets you know up front if there will be "shopping experiences" or not. When you choose a tour that does not include this diversion, those on board have insisted they do not get snuck in. No problems. Done in good spirts, and reminds you about any country that welcomes day tripper tourism. Which is what we are. 

 

I do not want to start up this old disagreement with you again, but I do not agree with your points.

 

Of course it is hard to get a sense of a place in 6 hours. Of course it is better to spend time there, days, even weeks, and I do that too.

 

But when one has a one-day visit, I will counter that having boots on the ground, interacting and talking with other locals who are going about their daily business does give you a better sense, at a "meta" level, than a bus tour.

 

Perhaps on a bus tour a guide imparts more facts -- facts I've mostly already read and internalized from pre-cruise research. Or perhaps they decide, as one HAL guide in my past memorably did, NOT to impart much information to her bus of passengers because, as she said, "You'll all just forget it all anyway."  Then spent the rest of the 45-minute ride pandering for us to buy products from her relatives' shop. (I mean that literally, she literally told us it was her sister-in-law's business and we should support it.)

 

I will also have to disagree with you that shopping stops are always listed in the descriptions. Perhaps they are now (although I would be skeptical). But I know that when I stopped taking shorex through HAL it was because of several unmentioned shopping stops on various tours.

 

Finally, very few port stops are as short as six hours, at least on the cruises I take. BUT the HAL excursion may only be that long. Often on my Westerdam April cruise I was long gone from the ship, an hour or more before excursions ever met in the lounge for departure. I know for a fact -- because I timed it out to the minute -- that I could get more time in Florence by taking the (earliest feasible) train on my own than by taking one of HAL's excursions. Especially when you subtract the 30-minute rest-cum-shopping stops that occur enroute in both directions on the HAL bus tours, the time spent waiting for stragglers, etc.

 

Of course quite a few HAL mariners (and passengers on other lines) are older. And I can certainly see the point that a shorter visit rather than full day bus excursion would be safer, more manageable, and thus better for those elderly passengers. My parents certainly took advantage of many. But they aren't the best option for those who are still relatively fit and mobile.

 

[Lakesregion]

7 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I assume (hope?) this was meant to be tongue in cheek. One reason I like to do things on my own while traveling (e.g., use local buses, subway, trains where possible to get myself around) is to avoid traveling in that bubble that a lot of tourists have where the only real interaction they have during a port visit is probably with their bus tour guide a driver.

 

As Rick Steves famously said, it's hard to get a sense of a place with your face pressed against the window of a bus.

 

Not at all. The OP gave me the impression they did not wish to mingle with the "Unwashed Trurist" so my suggestion would eliminate that issue. following Steve Ricks is wonderful if you are of a younger age. Does not really work when you are seeking a few of the finer things in life to go along with the sights.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Lakesregion said:

Not at all. The OP gave me the impression they did not wish to mingle with the "Unwashed Trurist" so my suggestion would eliminate that issue. following Steve Ricks is wonderful if you are of a younger age. Does not really work when you are seeking a few of the finer things in life to go along with the sights.

"Steve Ricks"? Did you mean Rick Steves?

[Lakesregion]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

"Steve Ricks"? Did you mean Rick Steves?

Whatever. Guy made a fortune with a backpack and a niche market. Got to love it.

[JeffElizabeth]

21 hours ago, Lakesregion said:

Not at all. The OP gave me the impression they did not wish to mingle with the "Unwashed Trurist" so my suggestion would eliminate that issue. following Steve Ricks is wonderful if you are of a younger age. Does not really work when you are seeking a few of the finer things in life to go along with the sights.

Sorry I gave you that impression.  I am less worried about tourists than so many tourists that seeing the sights are impossible and I also hate spending most of my time ashore in traffic. 

[HappyInVan]

I think that we have to be realistic. Conditions are getting worse. Its mid July and already...

 

"Tourists and residents warned to stay inside as deadly heat hits Europe during peak travel season"

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/second-heat-wave-many-weeks-112005401.html

 

 

[Guest ldtr]

17 hours ago, Lakesregion said:

Whatever. Guy made a fortune with a backpack and a niche market. Got to love it.

The guy that made a fortune publishing books telling Americans where to go in Europe, and now the best value of his books are to warn people where not to go because the spots recommended will be over run with American tourists.

[RD64]

20 minutes ago, ldtr said:

The guy that made a fortune publishing books telling Americans where to go in Europe, and now the best value of his books are to warn people where not to go because the spots recommended will be over run with American tourists.

Not just American tourists - tourists from all over. Wait until the beginning of August when virtually every European country goes on Holidays. The first two weeks in August - anything leading up to August 15th - the feast of the Assumption - are complete chaos in Italy because pretty much everything will be on holidays - except for those places that cater to tourists.

[Hlitner]

13 minutes ago, ldtr said:

The guy that made a fortune publishing books telling Americans where to go in Europe, and now the best value of his books are to warn people where not to go because the spots recommended will be over run with American tourists.

Lets put all in perspective   We have long recommended the Rick Steves books, primarily for fellow DIY/independent travelers.  But we always added a caveat which was to generally avoid his restaurant recommendations.  Muchj of his advice and excellent walking guides are simply about the major and most popular tourist destinations.  Nothing wrong with that and it is what most travelers (especially first time visitors) expect.  Go to Rome for the first time and you will probably want to go to the Vatican Msuesms, St Peters, Coluseum, Piazale Roma, etc.  HIs books do a good job telling folks how to get to these places, the hours,and some decent tips.  

 

Also keep in mind that major tourist sites are not just "overun with American tourists" but are often crowded with tourists from all over the world (including many Europeans.  When folks ask DW and I where to go in Paris (a city we know very well) we can give them lots of suggestions, but most first (or even 2nd) time visitors want to go to the Eiffel Tower, Champs Elysees, Notre Dame, the Louvre etc.  I can certainly tell them our personal preference for the Musee d'Orsay...but that place will also be packed with tourists/art lovers.  Even the lesser known Marmotten will be crowded..year round.

 

Lets be honest, many of the most popular tourist places are crowded because they are good places to visit.  We can certainly advise somebody who has no interest in the Eiffel Tower, Louvre, etc, but that is what most folks want to see!  Going to Barcelona for the first time and not seeing Sagrada Famila might be considered a crime!  And yes, that place will be packed (year round).  The reality is that when you want to see the famous places you will have lots of company.

 

Yes, there are ways to enjoy less touristy places, and very well seasoned travelers will tend to seek out such places.  But if we told many travelers to do as we do, they would be very unhappy and complain that they "missed too much.  My only complaint about Rick Steves is that he has yet to publish guides on much of the world outside of Europe.

 

Hank

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Lets put all in perspective   We have long recommended the Rick Steves books, primarily for fellow DIY/independent travelers.  But we always added a caveat which was to generally avoid his restaurant recommendations.  Muchj of his advice and excellent walking guides are simply about the major and most popular tourist destinations.  Nothing wrong with that and it is what most travelers (especially first time visitors) expect.  Go to Rome for the first time and you will probably want to go to the Vatican Msuesms, St Peters, Coluseum, Piazale Roma, etc.  HIs books do a good job telling folks how to get to these places, the hours,and some decent tips.  

 

Also keep in mind that major tourist sites are not just "overun with American tourists" but are often crowded with tourists from all over the world (including many Europeans.  When folks ask DW and I where to go in Paris (a city we know very well) we can give them lots of suggestions, but most first (or even 2nd) time visitors want to go to the Eiffel Tower, Champs Elysees, Notre Dame, the Louvre etc.  I can certainly tell them our personal preference for the Musee d'Orsay...but that place will also be packed with tourists/art lovers.  Even the lesser known Marmotten will be crowded..year round.

 

Lets be honest, many of the most popular tourist places are crowded because they are good places to visit.  We can certainly advise somebody who has no interest in the Eiffel Tower, Louvre, etc, but that is what most folks want to see!  Going to Barcelona for the first time and not seeing Sagrada Famila might be considered a crime!  And yes, that place will be packed (year round).  The reality is that when you want to see the famous places you will have lots of company.

 

Yes, there are ways to enjoy less touristy places, and very well seasoned travelers will tend to seek out such places.  But if we told many travelers to do as we do, they would be very unhappy and complain that they "missed too much.  My only complaint about Rick Steves is that he has yet to publish guides on much of the world outside of Europe.

 

Hank

The original value in the Rick Steve's books compared to the other guide books was thr focus on local hotels, dining and out of the way places to visit.

 

Then they because so popular that the out of the way places became hot spots, local family restaurants and hotels lost much of their uniqueness and often became American tourist magnets.

 

Of course the main attractions are busy by more than Americans. These days the original value of the Rick Steve's guide books is pretty much gone and these days provide lists of hotels and restaurants to stay away from.

 

I cannot count the number of times I have seen people using Rick Steve's books hunt for a particular dining or lodging venue only to find that it is no longer as described in his books. The local character and uniqueness gone.

 

Kind of like the scientific principal that the act of observing something, causes changes and impact on whatever it is being observed. Publish a travel hack or a little known location will render the hack less effective and rhe location more well known. Often rendering them less attractive to visit.