European airports and airlines

[Gray Lady]

Hopefully this will be my last ask about airlines and airports before our deviation window opens. I need to hear your opinions and experiences, since I have neither. Next April we are flying from SFO to Barcelona (changing planes in Europe both ways 🤞) and then home from Rome. I have listened and will try to avoid the worst airports and Air France. I have looked and found acceptable (to us) flights, but before I dive into each one and find out about non refundable seats, I have some questions. Inquiring minds want to know. 

I have looked at flights that allow 2 hours or more for transferring, and airlines with partners/code shares.

1) How is the Zurich airport and Swiss Air? 
 

2) What about the Istanbul and Turkish Airlines

 

3) Is Copenhagen a decent transfer airport?

 

4) Is Air Canada a good option with transfers in either Toronto or Montreal?

 

5) Is it doable to go to Madrid if we have to change terminals, but are on the same airline for the next leg?

 

6) I gather Frankfort is the “best of the worst” transfer airports: how long would we realistically need there to change planes? Four hours?

 

7) In case the above options are up-charged a ridiculous amount, which airport on the East Coast is best for transferring (going, not coming back): Newark, JFK, or Atlanta?

Thanks, everyone. I will let everyone know how it goes.

Incidentally, we cleared the wait list for an extra night in Barcelona. 
Cindy

[wcsdkqh]

Atlanta, hands down, best of the three. Not sure why your first choice is to change planes in Europe. I would look at Delta to Atlanta , and then on to Barcelona. If your flights are all Delta, then the sfo to atl will be first class. On your return, again, Delta from Rome to Atlanta.  We are doing this exact itinerary this fall, except not flying to sfo.

[Gray Lady]

4 minutes ago, wcsdkqh said:

Atlanta, hands down, best of the three. Not sure why your first choice is to change planes in Europe. I would look at Delta to Atlanta , and then on to Barcelona. If your flights are all Delta, then the sfo to atl will be first class. On your return, again, Delta from Rome to Atlanta.  We are doing this exact itinerary this fall, except not flying to sfo.

I was under the impression that domestic flights are in economy, and international in business class. Also, flying direct from SFO would give us more time to sleep on the plane. Coming back we want to avoid going through customs and having to recheck our baggage and being in domestic seats. I will look at the scheduling for Delta and see what times they have on their schedule. Thanks

[Nachosdelux]

all the European airlines/airports you listed are fine.  

 

I would feel comfortable with a 2 hour connection in FRA (3 hours if you need wheelchair assistance)

 

I have transited CPH, IST, ZRH, YUL, and YYZ and you should have no issue with any of them.  

[cruiseluv]

3 hours ago, Gray Lady said:

Hopefully this will be my last ask about airlines and airports before our deviation window opens. I need to hear your opinions and experiences, since I have neither. Next April we are flying from SFO to Barcelona (changing planes in Europe both ways 🤞) and then home from Rome. I have listened and will try to avoid the worst airports and Air France. I have looked and found acceptable (to us) flights, but before I dive into each one and find out about non refundable seats, I have some questions. Inquiring minds want to know. 

I have looked at flights that allow 2 hours or more for transferring, and airlines with partners/code shares.

1) How is the Zurich airport and Swiss Air? 
 

2) What about the Istanbul and Turkish Airlines

 

3) Is Copenhagen a decent transfer airport?

 

4) Is Air Canada a good option with transfers in either Toronto or Montreal?

 

5) Is it doable to go to Madrid if we have to change terminals, but are on the same airline for the next leg?

 

6) I gather Frankfort is the “best of the worst” transfer airports: how long would we realistically need there to change planes? Four hours?

 

7) In case the above options are up-charged a ridiculous amount, which airport on the East Coast is best for transferring (going, not coming back): Newark, JFK, or Atlanta?

Thanks, everyone. I will let everyone know how it goes.

Incidentally, we cleared the wait list for an extra night in Barcelona. 
Cindy

 

Frankfurt, I would say 3 hours, but my last experience was about 12 years ago

Madrid I go often, airport is huge, if you’re flying AA or Iberia that use terminal 4s to arrive, then you transfer by train to terminal 4 for intra Europe, I would say 2.5 minimum. Of the US airports you mention I would pick Newark

[Nachosdelux]

If you have to pick a US airport, I agree that ATL is the best choice because EWR and JFK are most likely to have ATC delays.  Weather could affect any of them, but ATL recovers the quickest from delays.

[mj_holiday]

Usually if you are with the same airlines in the US, your domestic flight will be business, this is done by airlines, not part of Regent.

[loriva]

Two hours for transfer in Frankfurt is fine--PRESUMING your incoming flight is on time.  Check on FlightAware to see the records (on-time or average delay) on the flights you are considering through there.  For us, flights out of Orlando to FRA average 40-60 minutes late (afternoon storms in Florida are daily events) so that would drop that connection time to 60-80 minutes.  Given the huge size of FRA and the likelihood you will be changing terminals from the international to Schengen flight, that time gets tight quickly.

 

If you plan on traveling to Europe more frequently in the future and using FRA, you can register for their trusted traveler program.  You do need a long layover (4 hours) for that as you need to leave airside to go to the German border police office in the airport to register and then reclear security and travel back to your gate area.  It allows you to use the e-gates for passport control, potentially much quicker.  (We registered back in December and will test it in October.)

[Techno123]

We have only ever flown with Swiss from the UK but each time excellent and Zurich Airport is very efficient (as is everything in Switzerland 😁)

[rallydave]

15 hours ago, Gray Lady said:

but before I dive into each one and find out about non refundable seats

What does refundable or non-refundable seats have to do with anything.  It is Regent booking for you and there is nothing for you to worry about if the seats are non-refundable because. because you don't pay for them separately as according to Regent they are "free".  

 

You need not research by fares as your refund, if any comes from the cruise fare and not directly from the airline.  And if on a Regent Contracted flight that's al Regent's problem and if you accept a non contract flight, you won't know that and it is Regent's problem if you cancel.

[jeb_bud]

I’m in the 3 hours in FRA club. It’s a looong walk from gate to gate in FRA and especially for a first timer the signage is not great. 
 

The one time we flew SFO to BCN we used United via Newark. Transiting Newark was no problem for us and I think they now have a Polaris Lounge which is a very nice business class lounge. 
 

As others have noted when you book from departure to destination on the same airline the domestic USA leg(s) should be in First Class. You can confirm that with Regent before accepting their offer. We have found that codeshare flights also support the domestic First Class. 

[PaulaJK]

We found transfer in FRA very stressful and tedious. Ours involved ups and diwns as well as train terminal transfer. Every time we travel, we seem to require more tine for the transfer. Be kind to you.

[dabear]

We have used FRA a number of times & find it extremely efficient. In fact on an Oceania cruise we arrived in FRA a little late & a Lufthansa rep met us upon arrival & took our group , walked us to our other flight. Swiss Air & Zurich AP both fine. 

[papaflamingo]

16 hours ago, Gray Lady said:

I was under the impression that domestic flights are in economy, and international in business class. Also, flying direct from SFO would give us more time to sleep on the plane. Coming back we want to avoid going through customs and having to recheck our baggage and being in domestic seats. I will look at the scheduling for Delta and see what times they have on their schedule. Thanks

Just comment to add to those already made.  If you book on a single airline they will give you first class domestic.  Europe, not so much.  Check the connecting flight in Europe.  Often their "business class" will be a normal row of 3 with the middle seat blocked out.  

I just deviated my flights for Feb.  When I called Regent I had all my "ducks in a row."  I found a couple of options and had the airline website open to the flights I wanted.  The agent was FANTASTIC!  We are going Atlanta to Hong Kong so we have to connect.  We booked on United and we have First Class to SFO and Polar Class to HKG.  When we did our return we need to upcharge for the non-stop from Tokyo to Atlanta.  I asked what a no upcharge would look like and she said I could do Japan Airlines to Boston in Business Class then Jet Blue to Atlanta in coach.  So I chose the upcharge.  

They will be very happy to discuss all options available and are very easy to work with.  Remember it's $75 to talk to them, but that's a single charge, not per person.  Then it's $175 per person to deviate, but the $75 is rolled In so well worth it.  Just have some options available and don't hesitate to ask them what other options may be available.  After accepting a deviation you, or your TA will get an email with the itinerary on it that MUST be accepted in 3 days.  So if you are working with a TA make sure they know that email is coming.  

Edited August 20, 2023 by papaflamingo

[bebop bonnie]

To add to Gray Lady’s questions….we will be flying from Miami into Barcelona with a return in Rome back to Miami.  I believe American has a non stop to Barcelona and for return,  Alitalia has a non stop back to Miami.  We obviously prefer non stop flights when possible.  Any suggestions or other options are appreciated!! 

[1982CruzStart]

4 hours ago, rallydave said:

What does refundable or non-refundable seats have to do with anything.  It is Regent booking for you and there is nothing for you to worry about if the seats are non-refundable because. because you don't pay for them separately as according to Regent they are "free".  

 

You need not research by fares as your refund, if any comes from the cruise fare and not directly from the airline.  And if on a Regent Contracted flight that's al Regent's problem and if you accept a non contract flight, you won't know that and it is Regent's problem if you cancel.

In letters/emails from Regent they suggested that you look for availability of the lowest business class fare seats as those are the seats that Regent contracts. If you are checking flight options and all the airline is showing are full fare or refundable business class seats available there is a good chance that Regent will not have any contracted seats available on that flight.  You have a better chance of getting what you want if you suggest only itineraries that have non-refundable or lowest business class fares showing as available. 

 

The refundable vs non-refundable is not about canceling, it is all about the chance of Regent having seats available on that itinerary. 

[RELS]

2 hours ago, papaflamingo said:

The [Regent Air] agent was FANTASTIC!

 

Every time I talk to them I am impressed with how much they want to help me.  I know they have spent up to 1.5 hours on the phone with my TA, too, getting my flights in order.

 

Once you get through the interminable outgoing message and get an agent, they are really helpful.

[forgap]

19 hours ago, PaulaJK said:

We found transfer in FRA very stressful and tedious. Ours involved ups and diwns as well as train terminal transfer. Every time we travel, we seem to require more tine for the transfer. Be kind to you.

Exactly the same for us.  We had to change terminals, signage terrible, up and down, bus ride, passport check, crowded business class lounge.  The scenery flying in, though, was beautiful.  
 

Turkish Airlines was great.  They have service that is reminiscent of days gone by including a fancy dessert cart and an on board chef.  We flew out of Istanbul and the TA lounge is fantastic!  

[Tomotter]

On 8/20/2023 at 2:37 PM, Techno123 said:

We have only ever flown with Swiss from the UK but each time excellent and Zurich Airport is very efficient (as is everything in Switzerland 😁)

I live in Switzerland and can only confirm what Techno123 said: Zurich is in fact a brilliant airport.

[Portolan]

1 hour ago, Tomotter said:

I live in Switzerland and can only confirm what Techno123 said: Zurich is in fact a brilliant airport.

With a whiskey bar if you have access to the Swiss Airlines Lounge (which you should have if flying into Zurich on Swiss or Star Alliance in business class.

[PaulMCO]

Outbound -- I would try for LH or LX through FRA or ZRH.  Once you get to the EU even if you miss the connection there is always a later flight.  Presume you will go at least 1 day early.  I tend to avoid the the US connections on the outbound.  Coming home is different.

 

Return -- If you are departing directly from the ship and not staying over, you are limited as most of the connecting EU flights must leave by 10am.  Exceptions are Air France and LH that have some late direct flights through CDG and MUC to SFO.

 

You are obviously doing your homework and did a general search and AF and SAS are generally the cheaper biz class fares I am finding.  Of the two I prefer AF.   I do not like AC and they are the worse for misconnects,  I saw the AC flight FCO-YUL-SFO.  I do not know if Regent will put you in FC for the domestic segment which is over 6 hours,

 

If you stay over in Rome -- you would have a better choice of flights the next days with some direct EU to SFO legs and a short EU domestic leg.

 

Use ITA Matrix web site to locate the best and cheapest flights.

[Gray Lady]

6 minutes ago, PaulMCO said:

 

If you stay over in Rome -- you would have a better choice of flights the next days with some direct EU to SFO legs and a short EU domestic leg.

Yes, we are staying for the three day post-cruise package. We are also going in a day earlier than our pre-cruise tour. I have been reading the Matrix and trying to pick out decent flights. I agree with you on wanting to get to the EU before transferring for a short flight. I know that segment will not be in business, but is a short flight.

 

Thank you for info on Air Canada and letting me know that Air France is okay. I haven’t read a lot of good about them. LX and LH both code share with United, so hopefully Regent has contracts with one of them.

 

Returning is not so much of an issue. Our vacation is over and it is easier to deal with a hiccup. I would just like to not have to go through customs until we reach SFO. 
 

Thank you for your insights.

 

 

[welshfamily]

Our plane was late leaving Rome. Just did a transfer in Frankfurt in under 30 mins. We ran…and then the plane was delayed. Steps off the airplane then a bus to the terminal. This was even through passport control. The assistant pushed  us to the front. Hard work but we managed. I always think it’s worth allowing a good 2 to 3 hours in Frankfurt to avoid stress. If you want to enjoy a coffee, bathroom break to freshen up in the lounge before a long return flight even longer is no hardship. 
Barcelona is a decent airport as well. 

[GOARMY]

Frankfurt continues to get a majority of bad raps for various shortcomings for various reasons.  

 

As ALWAYS:  YMMV.  Here are ours during two post-Pandemic transfers via Frankfurt on our way to Regent hotels in either Spain or Italy.  

 

Positive, mainly because after several changes in Regent flights, finally settled in allowing a 2.5 hour layover on each occasion.  Our originating flights arrived on-time.  Yes, it was walking down steps to the waiting bus for transport to Terminal.  

 

There, we easily linked-up with a friendly "Facilitator"--who had that designation on a large nametag.  He reviewed our arrival documents as to country of origin; and ultimate destination.  Then, guided us to the proper location to clear a Customs stop; get our Passports stamped; then, on to another stairway leading to Main Terminal--and access to a nice Lounge.  Had time for about a 1.5 hour "chill" before exiting Lounge for a short walk to departure Gate(s). 

 

So--the stars aligned in our favor.

 

GOARMY!

 

[newlondon]

I second forgap. Turkish Air was excellent. Have flown them 4 times. Istanbul lounge can be very full.