International Flights Full?

[EmmasNana]

I know you would be guessing, but are flights from US to Europe typically flying full? Seats are 3 together and my husband doesn't want to sit by a stranger (he sure as hell doesn't care if I do though...but on an overnight flight I prefer not to either). If I choose window and aisle, would the middle seat likely be taken?

 

DFW - CDG - FCO   Aug 22 

FCO - DFW   Sept 3

 

Let the advice and guessing begin: 

[Zach1213]

Full or very close to it. Especially to/from Europe in Summer. Airlines are in the business of creating the highest load factors as possible, and demand between North America and Europe has been extremely high the last few summers and should continue to be next summer. 

 

I would plan on every seat being full, and being pleasantly surprised if it's not. 

[fbgd]

Guessing is correct. How you expect someone to know whether a middle seat will be taken on a given flight 11 months from now is, well, ambitious...

 

You are looking at flights to/from prime European tourist cities in the height of tourist season. That's about as good as you're going to get from anyone...

[EmmasNana]

Pretty much what I was expecting. I think I will go further back in the plane hoping most will want to be nearest the front of the plane.

[FlyerTalker]

Have you already bought your tickets?

 

If not, why not fly on an airline where they have a 2-4-2 configuration for the aircraft so you are two seated together?

 

Or is seating only a consideration after the tickets are bought?

 

 

[EmmasNana]

3 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

Have you already bought your tickets?

 

If not, why not fly on an airline where they have a 2-4-2 configuration for the aircraft so you are two seated together?

 

Or is seating only a consideration after the tickets are bought?

 

 

I am using air2sea so have not paid for tickets yet. I did want to get something booked as prices were changing rapidly, maybe due to the war going on now. I grabbed something very reasonable and it would be fine, but I can change if something looks better. 

 

We are traveling with another couple so we could do three together and then someone could have an aisle seat across the aisle. It will all be fine I am sure.

[waterbug123]

More than likely your flight will be full.  And while it's nice to think "oh, I'll pick seats in the very back since most will want to sit further toward the front," if the plane is full, it's full.  The back rows will be just as full as the front rows.

[CruisingAlong4Now]

If you and hubby book aisle and window on a three-seat and the middle person shows up, I'm sure that person would be more than happy to change with either of you for the window or aisle.

 

If the seating was three across, my DH and I would usually book across aisles since we both like to get up and walk about, especially on longer flighs.

[FlyerTalker]

And many cruiseline air arrangements are not ticketed until after payment and also quite close to flight date.  By which time, many of the seats have already been chosen by people who have bought their tickets directly from the airline.

 

Cruiseline air has a number of drawbacks.  Getting the seats you want is often one of them.

 

Caveat emptor.

 

 

[CDNPolar]

In the past year I have flown to Australia, South Africa, Egypt, Nice, London, Bucharest and Budapest.  Every flight was full and in some cases they were asking for volunteers to give up seats.

 

The best way to ensure that you are in a 2 4 2 configuration so that you can sit in the window / isle is to pay for Premium Economy.  Most every international PE cabin I have been in is 2 4 2 configuration, and if you are booking early enough and the airline allows, you can choose the seats in advance.  Note however that sometimes these seat assignments are changed because the airline changes the aircraft.

 

We spend a lot of time first on Google Flights and then we look at the airlines, and the flights available on seat map websites.  We used to use SeatGuru, but they don't update any longer so the results from this site may not be accurate.  We now use aeroLOPA.  Take the flight information and then research the aircraft seating map.  Sometimes on some aircraft, they narrow at the tail and you can have 3-4 rows of 2 seats on the window/aisle.  These seats however are right at the back and the lavatories are right there, so you are going to have lines of people and a lot of activity around you.

 

If we are not flying Premium Economy, and we are in an economy cabin that is 3 4 3 or whatever, we will often then choose 2 aisle seats either across from each other, or one in front of the other.  I know you said that your husband does not want to sit beside someone he does not know....  More often than not, we choose isle seats one in front of the other.  We also are both right handed, so we choose isle seats on the left side of the aircraft, because when meals come, our right arm is on the aisle and we are not as restricted eating.  (This may sound strange to think of this, but believe me, if you have a larger person beside you in the middle seat or just a middle seat dweller that does not respect your space and they are also right handed, then you are going to be uncomfortable)

 

This choice of isle seat is also beneficial because although we may have to get up to let the others out at times, we don't have to ask others to move for us getting up.  (I tend to get very antsy on long flights and like to be able to get up and down and typically I do not ever sleep on an aircraft.)

Edited October 11, 2023 by CDNPolar

[Dancer Bob]

As it happens, I'm on an Air France flight tonight that has a lot of empty seats, they are offering to block the adjacent seat- for $150. This is only the second time in several years my flights haven't been full. (And the flight I'm connecting to is full.) Generally, I agree with CDNPolar. The AF A350 have a pair of (extra charge) seats at the rear, the B787 don't.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Dancer Bob

[Zach1213]

22 minutes ago, Dancer Bob said:

As it happens, I'm on an Air France flight tonight that has a lot of empty seats, they are offering to block the adjacent seat- for $150. This is only the second time in several years my flights haven't been full. 

 

A Wednesday in October is definitely more likely to be quieter than a summer flight. I'm curious how full the belly of the plane is. 

[em-sk]

On 10/10/2023 at 11:48 AM, EmmasNana said:

I know you would be guessing, but are flights from US to Europe typically flying full?

 

Air Canada load factor (percentage of seats sold) between Canada and Europe is around 80-90%.  I suspect the US airlines are similar.  The airlines would all like for it to be 100%, but they don't always get what they want.  Yes, there likely will be a few empty seats on the flight.  Will they be next to the seats you pick? The odds are they won't.   

 

 

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, em-sk said:

 

Air Canada load factor (percentage of seats sold) between Canada and Europe is around 80-90%.  I suspect the US airlines are similar.  The airlines would all like for it to be 100%, but they don't always get what they want.  Yes, there likely will be a few empty seats on the flight.  Will they be next to the seats you pick? The odds are they won't.   

 

 

Pre Covid, the US airlines were always around 85-88%. Since then, capacity overall has dropped. Demand is currently surging back. Expect flights to be full.

[CDNPolar]

I predominantly fly either business or premium economy.  When in the premium cabin you use the lavatories in economy.  When I walk back through the economy cabin, and sometimes to the back of the plane, I typically see economy full but there may be open seats still in the premium cabin.

 

Domestic vs. international flights may be different in the fullness of the aircraft too.

 

What I have had happen to me lately is a lot of my connecting flights once I get to Europe cancel and move to the next scheduled departure, which says to me that there may be some cancellation of flights to fill the next scheduled flight, because these flights are always full (in my recent experience) where people cannot find room for their carryon. 

[FlyerTalker]

2 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

What I have had happen to me lately is a lot of my connecting flights once I get to Europe cancel and move to the next scheduled departure, which says to me that there may be some cancellation of flights to fill the next scheduled flight, because these flights are always full (in my recent experience) where people cannot find room for their carryon. 

 

Urban legend.

 

Airlines don't cancel flights just because they may have a light load.  The aircraft need to be in the next city because of the next flight that aircraft is scheduled for needs to operate.  Same with crews.  If there is a cancellation, it has a ripple effect throughout the system.  Note how this happens when there is a major weather event -- aircraft and crews are disrupted from their normal flow, and the entire system goes wonky.  That flight that was supposed to go to Des Moines doesn't, and now the folks in Des Moines have no plane and crew to take them out.  And then the next, and the next and so forth.

 

Plus, you may see flights with light passenger load, but you don't see the belly cargo.  Many flights from South America make their money on the belly cargo, especially from Colombia where fresh flowers are being delivered daily.

 

 

 

[Zach1213]

4 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

I predominantly fly either business or premium economy.  When in the premium cabin you use the lavatories in economy. 

 

If the airline is making you use the economy lavs when you're in business class, you're using the wrong airline 😉

[waterbug123]

What FlyerTalker said.  Airlines don't randomly cancel flights because they aren't full and the pax can be accommodated on the next flight.  The aircraft and crew still need to get where they're needed for their next flight from that city or the domino effect of the cancellation becomes unmanageable.

[CDNPolar]

30 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

 

If the airline is making you use the economy lavs when you're in business class, you're using the wrong airline 😉

 

My comment was "When in the Premium Economy cabin you use the Economy Lavatories". 

 

When in Business, I do use the Business lavatories.

[FlyerTalker]

4 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

I predominantly fly either business or premium economy.  When in the premium cabin you use the lavatories in economy. 

 

24 minutes ago, CDNPolar said:

My comment was "When in the Premium Economy cabin you use the Economy Lavatories".

 

Seems you left out a word the first time.

 

 

[Azulann]

Traveled on Delta /KLM in June to Europe. All flights were full. I was amazed on our return flight on Delta from AMS to MSP that many were families: grandparents, adult children and grandkids. I just kept thinking  what the price of their tickets were: WOW;Unless, of course ,these families all worked for Delta. 🙂 

 Our next cruise will be in Feb2025  from Greece. We figured  there would be very few kids  on  our flights, less tourists at various sites, and cooler weather.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Azulann

[Zach1213]

2 hours ago, Azulann said:

Traveled on Delta /KLM in June to Europe. All flights were full. I was amazed on our return flight on Delta from AMS to MSP that many were families: grandparents, adult children and grandkids. I just kept thinking  what the price of their tickets were: WOW;Unless, of course ,these families all worked for Delta. 🙂 

 Our next cruise will be in Feb2025  from Greece. We figured  there would be very few kids  on  our flights, less tourists at various sites, and cooler weather.

Once you go to Europe in the offseason, you'll never want to go back during the summer. It's so much nicer. I'm to the point where, even in my consulting role, I charge European clients more if they want me to come in summer...not only are flights/hotels/cars/trains more expensive, but having to deal with tourists is a pain haha. 

 

Regarding families - that's really nothing new. It's always been pretty common to see families going to Europe together in the summer and having big multi-generational trips, and even trips to visit family over there. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Zach1213

[Hezu]

On 10/12/2023 at 7:20 PM, Azulann said:

Our next cruise will be in Feb2025  from Greece. We figured  there would be very few kids  on  our flights, less tourists at various sites, and cooler weather.

In some parts of Europe there might be some school holidays also in February, for example in Finland in the latter part of February there is week long winter holidays (different parts of country having their week off different times), traditionally called "ski holiday", although some families may prefer to head south rather than enjoy the winter activities. Of course, Finnish holidays may still not affect your travel.

[BEAV]

On 10/11/2023 at 3:48 AM, EmmasNana said:

I know you would be guessing, but are flights from US to Europe typically flying full? Seats are 3 together and my husband doesn't want to sit by a stranger (he sure as hell doesn't care if I do though...but on an overnight flight I prefer not to either). If I choose window and aisle, would the middle seat likely be taken?

 

DFW - CDG - FCO   Aug 22 

FCO - DFW   Sept 3

 

Let the advice and guessing begin: 

I flew SFO to Japan a couple days ago. Flight was completely full, but no worries as I purchased three economy seats for the two of us (middle seat empty) on a 3-4-3 configuration. 
 

I’ve been doing this fairly regularly the past couple of years when Business Class isn’t in my budget. It has really worked well for us. 

[6rugrats]

On 10/12/2023 at 12:20 PM, Azulann said:

Traveled on Delta /KLM in June to Europe. All flights were full. I was amazed on our return flight on Delta from AMS to MSP that many were families: grandparents, adult children and grandkids. I just kept thinking  what the price of their tickets were: WOW;Unless, of course ,these families all worked for Delta. 🙂 

 

DL employees could buy a confirmed ticket at a discount on DL only.  Buying a standby ticket on other airlines is usually limited to certain family members.  In any case, in the summer, those middle seats are often filled by airline employees flying standby, who take whatever seats they can get, and they are behind every paying passenger.

Edited October 17, 2023 by 6rugrats