Billion Dollar Profit

[DrProfessor]

It may be a one off, but we were on Mariner last week and had the beach club on CocoCay (that I bought in Nov 2022 during black Friday).  I noted that every single cabana I could see was completely empty.  Maybe people really aren't paying those super high prices.  I wonder if they are charging the super high prices in the case that someone does pay and then they can "man" it for the day.  Otherwise, they just sit there empty and don't cost anything to run.  Still, they would have to keep them up - but for the short term, they may not have the staff to man them all and thus the high prices.

 

I just thought it was interesting to see them all empty and producing zero income.  Then again, it may have been just a bad day for the cabanas.  As it is, we'll probably never get the beach club pass again (that is now close to $280pp/day), unless there is a mega mega sale where the 50% off doesn't still somehow work out to the same usual price.

[orville99]

22 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

Why are you using 2nd quarter numbers rather than 3rd quarter numbers?

Because the second quarter numbers are the latest available on line, and I don’t have quick access to their Q3 10-Q.

Edited October 26, 2023 by orville99

[retired dude]

2 hours ago, robmtx said:

I'm just curious what people eat on a daily basis on land? The food on ships is so bad now that you cancel cruises over it? Or, maybe I should ask, what did you used to get on board, food wise? We've been on several cruises post pandemic, and yeah we've seen lots of changes, and yea the food may be different, but it's not anything that we'd personally give up on.  We've had some very good meals onboard, and some great customer service as well since they resumed sailing.

 

When we do land-based vacations, we have to randomly pick a restaurant and hope the 5 stars online are true.. and then three meals a day on land vacation is $200-$250.

 

yes as the proud son of a chef, we eat better every night than the food that we have gotten on our last few cruises on rccl and celebrity....We use choice quality meats as opposed to the select grade that the cruises now use and we use nothing but the freshest ingredients to prepare all of our meals.We have cruised  for over 30 years and i hope that we are qualified to tell the difference between then and now. I appreciate the efforts of the cruise staffs, but they are dealing with some corporate inflicted changes that are not going to go away. ..For those of us that have supported the industry we deserve to at least get a decent product for the prices that have gone up so much.....very simple equation, take care of those that got you where you're at.

[time4u2go]

2 hours ago, robmtx said:

I'm just curious what people eat on a daily basis on land? The food on ships is so bad now that you cancel cruises over it? Or, maybe I should ask, what did you used to get on board, food wise?

To answer these three questions:

 

On land, I eat at home and I eat out.  The quality obviously varies depending on what and where I eat.  Not really sure what you are asking.

 

I don't cancel cruises over the food, but I am doing less of them, and I am cruising on different lines partially because of the food.

 

I used to get much better food, and a much better selection of food on board.

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by time4u2go

[bretts173]

The more things change the more things stay the same, as a youngster I remember my grandparents saying, the food and the music when I was growing up was so much better than today, then my parents started saying it, not looking forward to the time when I start moaning about these things.

 

 

[grandgeezer]

Wall street doesn’t seemed to be impressed. It’s still about $30 a share below the yearly high, and about $50 per share from the all time high. They also paid $3.10 per share dividend at that time.

[A&L_Ont]

5 hours ago, dani negreanu said:

 

Back to the future?😉

Maybe. 😂

[Mikew0805]

7 hours ago, HicksRA said:

Just got back from a 16 day PC cruise on Radiance. Ate dinner in the dining room three times and gave up in disgust. The chefs are trying hard to make a good meal out of the crap they’re being given to work with but you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. 

The Windjammer had the same stuff every day - chicken nuggets, macaroni & cheese, mashed potatoes, three different kinds of pizza and a pan of some kind of beef mixture and a pan of mystery fish. As usual, lots of pretty but taste free desserts. 
I mostly ate a hamburger for a late lunch and no dinner. Very disappointing except I didn’t gain a pound. 

The D+ bathroom amenities that used to be L’Occitane are now L’Motelle No. 6. 

The crew are still trying but are working with less and trying to keep up. 

 

Mr Liberty has cheapened Royal to Dollar Store status. 

 

I laughed so hard at this I snorted.  

 

 Last weekend on Independence they gave me the "upgraded amenities" which happened to be the same products that were already in the tub, just in a smaller tube. 🙄

 

[RJ257]

4 hours ago, orville99 said:

Because the second quarter numbers are the latest available on line, and I don’t have quick access to their Q3 10-Q.

Thanks for posting the report numbers.

[TexCruise371]

7 hours ago, orville99 said:

From what we have seen on our recent cruises (B2Bs in July (Wonder), September (Grandeur), and October (Mariner)), IMHO the bubble has already burst. On Mariner, you could count on at least 3 different announcements from the cruise director each day hawking the spa, the shops, future cruises, excursions, or dining. Watching the passengers both on board and in port, there was a lot of wandering through the shops, but very little purchasing going on.

We got off Ovation on the 15th after a 9 day cruise and we also noticed that all the shops were empty during the whole cruise.

 

[RockHoundTX]

Started cruising in the late 1980s. Did a few cruises in the early 2000s, and then went into full "cruise-mide" in the mid 2010s with up to 6 family cruises per year. Booked 8 cruises as soon as the order banks opened up post-Covid. Currently only have 1 cruise left to take and really don't expect to take any cruises in 2024 or 2025 given the outrageous prices and drop-off in quality.

 

While it is easy to complain that "back in the day everything was better", but with cruises that is not the case. While the food quality is highly variable (even on a B2B), the food, entertainment, and overall experience was much better in the 2017-2019 period than it was back in the 1980-2010 period. The food on the first 3 post-Covid cruises I took was also wonderful. BUT, then it happened. Food and entertainment on my last 4 cruises has been pretty bad (as in, food poisoning bad). This was a across 4 different ships and 2 different cruise lines. At first they blamed it on food supply chain issues, then blamed inability to get staff, and now just straight-out admitting it is cost cutting due to "inflated prices".

 

I booked cruises since it was the best "bang for my buck" vacation experience. I "eat nice" at home (steak BBQ brisket, etc.) maybe twice per week and the rest of my meals are pretty much peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Being on a cruise is my time to splurge. On a cruise, you will find me and my wife either in the gym or eating (we are both fitter than 99%+ of people our age). The dining experience makes up 50% of our enjoyment (Cozumel looses it luster after you have been there 30+ times). When the food quality (and quantity) goes down and the prices double, cruises are no longer an affordable and enjoyable option. I am sure that many feel the same. 

 

Unlike Pre-Covid (and the 2 years Post-Covid) when my wife and I checked cruise prices 2-3 times per day, now we do it maybe once per week. We look at the prices and just shake our head in disgust. We have already booked a far better (and cheaper) vacation for 2024. I expect that at some point we will book another cruise, but no idea when that will be. However, it won't be until either food/entertainment quality goes way up or cruise prices go way down (hopefully both). Luckily, the cruise industry is a supply/demand service and I fully expect demand to weaken at some point over the next 12-18 months.   

 

[Orsino]

18 hours ago, robmtx said:

I'm just curious what people eat on a daily basis on land? The food on ships is so bad now that you cancel cruises over it? Or, maybe I should ask, what did you used to get on board, food wise? We've been on several cruises post pandemic, and yeah we've seen lots of changes, and yea the food may be different, but it's not anything that we'd personally give up on.  We've had some very good meals onboard, and some great customer service as well since they resumed sailing.

 

When we do land-based vacations, we have to randomly pick a restaurant and hope the 5 stars online are true.. and then three meals a day on land vacation is $200-$250.

 

We started cruising 20 years ago. But not only was the food better on cruises back then, but my personal food journey was in a very different place too. 20 years ago restaurant dining for me was pizzeria uno’s or a Applebees type place. If we were celebrating something we might go to legal seafood. At home we would have something like spaghetti with jarred sauce. 
Today we cook more intricate meals and eat at fancier restaurants. So not only have cruise food gone downhill but our everyday expectations have gone up. 
 

I remember being blown away by the MDR food on our first cruise. Specialty dining was not something we needed at all. Also back then speciality dining was a modest upcharge. Now specialty dining is the same cost as eating at a land restaurant. I remember thinking that the rise of specialty dining was going to kill MDR food. On some lines (Holland America) the MDR food was so good there was no reason to go to specialty dining. Solution? Make MDR worse. 
 

Now we cruise for the cruise. We endure the food and save our money for fine dining on land. 

[firefly333]

16 minutes ago, Orsino said:

Now we cruise for the cruise. We endure the food and save our money for fine dining on land. 

Sounds a bit miserable to me. 

 

I'm planning to cruise more and trying more pay restaurants to get a better eating experience. Take advantage of sales. I grabbed 3 of the Jamie's lunches when they were on sale. I doubt I'm the only one. Reaction to earnings was they took earnings in stride but at least stopped the sell off.beat and raised guidance going forward.

[Tatka]

I’m happy they are making profit after 21 billions lost in 2020-2022!!!
I don’t know private businesses which can survive without profit for too long.

 

Of course there are cuts and price increases. We live at post pandemic inflationary world.  I’d rather have this than not cruising at all.
 

I’m sure Royal isn’t changing things to upset cruisers.

[Billy Baltic]

40 minutes ago, Orsino said:

Now we cruise for the cruise. We endure the food and save our money for fine dining on land. 

We’re not there yet but the best meal I had during our Greek Island’s cruise was a dinner in port in Santorini. First time I’ve been on a cruise where my best meal was in port. 

[dandelpino]

54 minutes ago, Orsino said:

Also back then speciality dining was a modest upcharge. Now specialty dining is the same cost as eating at a land restaurant.

 

I remember going on Oasis shortly after it launched and being shocked that the upcharge at 150 Central Park was $35 a head. So much so that I still remember. That was shocking because most specialty restaurant surcharges were under $20. And that was back when 150 Central Park offered a an elevated experience with a famous-chef created multi course tasting menu. Better than Chef's Table IMO. 

 

Today it's $65 a head for 150 Central Park and the experience has been severely downgraded to just another a la carte restaurant - no more tasting menu. I sound like an old man talking about "back in my day" but I'm only in my mid 30s. It's startling how quickly things have changed for the worse.

[time4u2go]

1 hour ago, Orsino said:

Now we cruise for the cruise. We endure the food and save our money for fine dining on land. 

That's pretty much where I am. 

[bretts173]

I used to like Dr Pepper now I can't stand it, go figure. Pretty sure it's the same stuff. 

 

So many restaurants on land are busy and popular for the first few years, but once everyone's had it a few times it's not new and exciting any more.

[orville99]

Before everyone sounds the "all clear everything is back to normal" button, it is always a good idea to read through the company's latest 10-Q statement. Following is just one of more than 20 subsections in Item 1A. Risk Factors where financial risk is discussed:

 

Our substantial debt requires a significant amount of cash to service and could adversely affect our financial condition.

 

We have a substantial amount of debt and significant debt service obligations. As of September 30, 2023, we had total debt of $20.0 billion. Our substantial debt has required us to dedicate a large portion of our cash flow from operations to service debt and fund repayments on our debt, thereby reducing the availability of our cash flow to fund working capital, capital expenditures and other general corporate expenses. Our ability to make future scheduled payments on our debt service obligations or refinance our debt depends on our future operating and financial performance and ability to generate cash. This will be affected by our ability to successfully implement our business strategy, as well as general economic, financial, competitive, regulatory and other factors beyond our control, such as the disruption caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. If we cannot generate sufficient cash to meet our debt service obligations or fund our other business needs, we may, among other things, need to refinance all or a portion of our debt, obtain additional financing, delay planned capital expenditures or sell assets. We cannot assure that we will be able to generate sufficient cash through any of the foregoing. If we are not able to refinance any of our debt, obtain additional financing or sell assets on commercially reasonable terms or at all, we may not be able to satisfy our obligations with respect to our debt. Our substantial debt could also result in other negative consequences for us. For example, it could increase our vulnerability to adverse general economic or industry conditions; limit our flexibility in planning for, or reacting to, changes in our business or the industry in which we operate; place us at a competitive disadvantage compared to our competitors that have less debt; make us more vulnerable to downturns in our business, the economy or the industry in which we operate; limit our ability to raise additional debt or equity capital in the future to satisfy our requirements relating to working capital, capital expenditures, development projects, strategic initiatives or other purposes; restrict us from making strategic acquisitions, introducing new technologies or exploiting business opportunities; limit or restrict our ability to obtain and maintain performance bonds to cover our financial responsibility requirements in various jurisdictions for non-performance of guest travel, casualty and personal injury; make it difficult for us to satisfy our obligations with respect to our debt; and increase our exposure to the risk of increased interest rates as certain of our borrowings are (and may in the future be) at a variable rate of interest.

[alfaeric]

Wow, we must have been pretty unlucky on our first cruise, as I remember the food as being not all that great.  This was in 2001.  And the entertainment?  Most of what we saw on stage was was the CD staff doing stuff.  

Since then, the entertainment has gotten light years better- it's been pretty stable for about a decade now- the ability of the stage entertainment to come out to perform is more up to the CD than corporate- so we remind them that we want to see the ones who *want* to perform out in smaller venues.

 

And the food is still way better than that first cruise.

 

For many things I do think corporate greed is a big deal in high prices- but for the travel segment, a big part of that is also demand.  If ships were not full, they would not increase prices over time for a released cruise.  As far as we can tell, the booked cruises we have are still a really good deal if you get into them really quickly from release.  But, unlike in the past, the fares go up constantly over time- the odds of getting a better price has gone way down as well as getting cheap upgrades over time.  Maybe it's more TA's booking large group cruises, but I see more full cabins when we try to book than not.

 

The people who I really feel for are the workers- who has had their staff cut and their workload increased- they should most certainly be paid more for what they do.  RCI can afford to pay down their debt on schedule and still pay the workers.

[PhillyFan33579]

22 hours ago, retired dude said:

so glad that we cancelled this cruise months ago...We had a sneaking suspicion that things would continue to decline in food and overall product and it sounds like we hit the nail on the head...as diamond members we are sad, but will find other vacation destinations or just go to our beach here in clearwater..life goes on.

I have been on 13 RCI cruises this year with 3 more booked this year. I had a great time on every cruise and look forward to cruising again next week. Based on my experience your “sneaking suspicion” couldn’t be further from the truth. Obviously the vast majority of people agree with me because RCI ships continue to sail at over 100% capacity. However, you are free to listen to people who are not happy with RCI for one reason or another. Just keep in mind this is a very small minority. 

[orville99]

16 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I have been on 13 RCI cruises this year with 3 more booked this year. I had a great time on every cruise and look forward to cruising again next week. Based on my experience your “sneaking suspicion” couldn’t be further from the truth. Obviously the vast majority of people agree with me because RCI ships continue to sail at over 100% capacity. However, you are free to listen to people who are not happy with RCI for one reason or another. Just keep in mind this is a very small minority. 

You have us beat. Only 11 so far and only two more booked for this year (although those are each 14 night Panama Canal transits). IMHO, the quality of the new MDR menu has improved dramatically since it was introduced in January. Since we sail in suites, we usually order room service from the MDR menu for about 75% of the evenings on each cruise - we just never go into the MDR (can't stand the noise, the crowding, or the atmosphere). 

Edited October 27, 2023 by orville99

[joeyancho]

For everyone unhappy with this and that, the solution seems simple to me.   Try another cruise line.   That is what we are doing.  We snagged a great deal on the MSC Seascape.   7 day Western Caribbean,   in a deluxe balcony suite ( not really a suite, more of a mini suite )  with the Yacht Club upgrade.   It includes premium drink package, private pool, private restaurant ( with upgraded offerings ), private lounge,  thermal spa access,  free internet,  24 hr concierge,  free 24hr room service,  personal butler and on and on.  Price $3100 total.  That's the price of a regular balcony room on RCCL,  zero perks.  Try it.  It's fun to sleep around.   

[grandgeezer]

1 hour ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I have been on 13 RCI cruises this year with 3 more booked this year. I had a great time on every cruise and look forward to cruising again next week. Based on my experience your “sneaking suspicion” couldn’t be further from the truth. Obviously the vast majority of people agree with me because RCI ships continue to sail at over 100% capacity. However, you are free to listen to people who are not happy with RCI for one reason or another. Just keep in mind this is a very small minority. 

Vast majority of what people are referring to, RCL cheer leaders? The whole cruise industry is doing pretty well. 
Ten years ago, we knew 10-15 couples that cruised regularly, several times a year. We know of nobody now, including us. We all bailed pre pandemic because of all the reasons stated by your small minority.

[Starry Eyes]

16 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

Vast majority of what people are referring to, RCL cheer leaders? The whole cruise industry is doing pretty well. 
Ten years ago, we knew 10-15 couples that cruised regularly, several times a year. We know of nobody now, including us. We all bailed pre pandemic because of all the reasons stated by your small minority.

Grand Geezer, to state the obvious, you and your circle of friends are now ten years older than you were then with 10 years more travel experiences satisfied and, in many cases, 10 years more health problems.  It is not too surprising if they lost interest in frequent cruising.  Like it or not, Royal Caribbean seems to concentrate much of its marketing attention on young cruisers.