Love Royal but DIRE UPSETTING crew conditions - worse than others

[SRF]

So, what is wrong with having access to Whatsapp?  You can text, send photos, chat and video chat.  And it is secure, as the employ end to end encryption.

[cusematt4]

5 minutes ago, SRF said:

So, what is wrong with having access to Whatsapp?  You can text, send photos, chat and video chat.  And it is secure, as the employ end to end encryption.

Full WhatsApp access would be awesome.  But several crew members said it is strictly limited to texting - no ability to voice or video call through the app for crew.  WhatsApp calling would even be a huge win imo to be able to hear from and speak with their family.

[SRF]

And again, you are talking about something you only have 2nd hand.

 

If things were so bad, why does any one work for them????

[BND]

I'm amazed when someone thinks it's their business.  The crew chose to work.  They are not enslaved and in fact, they are free to go at any time.  The only caveat to that is if they don't complete their contract, they have to pay their own way home.   I just can't with these posts by people who "think" they know about the crew.  If it was so horrible, why would they keep coming back.  We've had a waiter tell us that he'd been on Royal for years and loved his job.  He sends money home to his wife and she runs their business while he's gone.  All you have to do to see how competitive these jobs are is read the requirements for the positions.  The listings are out there if someone cares to look.

[shipgeeks]

On my first cruise, my waiter mentioned (a day prior to "tips day") that his wife back in Jamaica had cancer.  I'll never know if it was true, or a ploy to get a bigger (much bigger) tip.

[shipgeeks]

Our excellent waiter in 1998 was our waiter again in 2016.  I guess he wasn't too disenchanted with his job.   

 

[SRF]

22 minutes ago, BND said:

I'm amazed when someone thinks it's their business.  The crew chose to work.  They are not enslaved and in fact, they are free to go at any time.  The only caveat to that is if they don't complete their contract, they have to pay their own way home.   I just can't with these posts by people who "think" they know about the crew.  If it was so horrible, why would they keep coming back.  We've had a waiter tell us that he'd been on Royal for years and loved his job.  He sends money home to his wife and she runs their business while he's gone.  All you have to do to see how competitive these jobs are is read the requirements for the positions.  The listings are out there if someone cares to look.

Heck, one cruise I was talking to a cabin steward.  She was on her 5th or 6th contract.  Her mother was on the same ship working, and had been so even longer.  And her daughter was working on board on her 1st or 2nd contact.   
 

Yeap, conditions are just so bad.

[cusematt4]

34 minutes ago, SRF said:

And again, you are talking about something you only have 2nd hand.

 

If things were so bad, why does any one work for them????

Because they are desperate for money and are taken advantage of my cruise lines without international law/regulation.  

All I’m stating is that if cruise lines aren’t going to pay their employees more than $100/month plus gratuities, it would be nice for basic internet access (at least video or audio calls) to be able to talk with their family that they are away from for so long.

Me stopping to cruise wouldn’t do anything.  Us collectively as regular cruisers could indeed make a difference.

 

Just cause this is how it’s been doesn’t mean it has to be this way forever.  if wages are what they are, technology has come such a long way and it would be nice to give crew a few hours a week a month to talk to family, even if during off hours when guest internet usage is low.  It’s the least they can do that wouldn’t cost the cruise lines much.  NCL already gives their crew unlimited free access to social media, where crew can talk with their family rather than just via WhatsApp text.

[SRF]

Just now, cusematt4 said:

Because they are desperate for money and are taken advantage of my cruise lines without international law/regulation.  

All I’m stating is that if cruise lines aren’t going to pay their employees more than $100/month plus gratuities, it would be nice for basic internet access (at least video or audio calls) to be able to talk with their family that they are away from for so long.

Me stopping to cruise wouldn’t do anything.  Us collectively as regular cruisers could indeed make a difference.

 

Just cause this is how it’s been doesn’t mean it has to be this way forever.  if wages are what they are, technology has come such a long way and it would be nice to give crew a few hours a week a month to talk to family, even if during off hours when guest internet usage is low.  It’s the least they can do that wouldn’t cost the cruise lines much.  NCL already gives their crew unlimited free access to social media, where crew can talk with their family rather than just via WhatsApp text.

 

Have you ever visited any of their countries and seen the working conditions there?????

 

Do you know what pay rates are in their home countries????

 

[cusematt4]

38 minutes ago, BND said:

I'm amazed when someone thinks it's their business.  The crew chose to work.  They are not enslaved and in fact, they are free to go at any time.  The only caveat to that is if they don't complete their contract, they have to pay their own way home.   I just can't with these posts by people who "think" they know about the crew.  If it was so horrible, why would they keep coming back.  We've had a waiter tell us that he'd been on Royal for years and loved his job.  He sends money home to his wife and she runs their business while he's gone.  All you have to do to see how competitive these jobs are is read the requirements for the positions.  The listings are out there if someone cares to look.

I’m amazed so many people could care less about these going above and beyond for us making our cruises the vacations we love and so look forward to.

 

I’m not asking people tip more than what’s recommended (although I do and hope others do when deserved), but rather just for some basic perks to make their lives just a tad more bearable by being able to keep in touch with their family given the technology advancements (speed, capabilities and cost) over the past few years.

[Starry Eyes]

21 minutes ago, cusematt4 said:

I’m amazed so many people could care less about these going above and beyond for us making our cruises the vacations we love and so look forward to.

 

I’m not asking people tip more than what’s recommended (although I do and hope others do when deserved), but rather just for some basic perks to make their lives just a tad more bearable by being able to keep in touch with their family given the technology advancements (speed, capabilities and cost) over the past few years.

If you tip more, they can take that money and buy an hour of internet if that is what they most value.  Or maybe they won’t use your extra tip money buy additional internet services, preferring to save that money for another purpose even more important to them.
 

Even though you possess only the little knowledge (however accurate or inaccurate it might be) gleaned from conversations with a few crew members (who were actively vying for your tips), you are trying to apply Your values to Their situations and and deciding that more internet for crew is one of the most pressing concerns…so pressing that you feel others should try to insert themselves into the relationship between crew and employer.  
 

You point out that you not asking people to tip more, yet people tipping more might actually improve crew members lives.  A petition, not so much.
 

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Starry Eyes

[Keksie]

The bottom line is that the crew are employees.  If they feel they are working in dire situations they are free to find employment elsewhere.  Each and every benefit for an employee raises the cost to the employer, which is then passed on to the customer.  Either that or the employer reduces the number of employees, which also has an impact on the customer.  

[2wheelin]

24 minutes ago, cusematt4 said:

Because they are desperate for money and are taken advantage of my cruise lines without international law/regulation.  

All I’m stating is that if cruise lines aren’t going to pay their employees more than $100/month plus gratuities, it would be nice for basic internet access (at least video or audio calls) to be able to talk with their family that they are away from for so long.

Me stopping to cruise wouldn’t do anything.  Us collectively as regular cruisers could indeed make a difference.

 

Just cause this is how it’s been doesn’t mean it has to be this way forever.  if wages are what they are, technology has come such a long way and it would be nice to give crew a few hours a week a month to talk to family, even if during off hours when guest internet usage is low.  It’s the least they can do that wouldn’t cost the cruise lines much.  NCL already gives their crew unlimited free access to social media, where crew can talk with their family rather than just via WhatsApp text.

You’ve already been proven wrong about that wage statement—very wrong. I thought you stated they don’t even get enough off hours to sleep but you want them on the internet. Or would there be a internet czar who would make sure they were only using it to talk to family?

2 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

If you tip more, they can take that money and buy an hour of internet if that is what they most value.  Or maybe they won’t use your extra tip money buy additional internet services, preferring to save that money for another purpose even more important to them.
 

Even though you possess only the little knowledge (however accurate or inaccurate it might be) gleaned from conversations with a few crew members (who were actively vying for your tips), you are trying to apply Your values to Their situations and and deciding that more internet for crew is one of the most pressing concerns…so pressing that you feel others should try to insert themselves into the relationship between crew and employer.  
 

 

Bingo! I think crew would be happier if they were given a free massage once a week. Think how achy their muscles must be after catering to all the whims of passengers. It’s appalling the cruise line can’t provide massages—as it wouldn’t cost them anything. They could get them at night when the spa is closed to  guests. Can we please start a petition? (Insert Tongue in cheek emoji)

[cusematt4]

1 minute ago, 2wheelin said:

You’ve already been proven wrong about that wage statement—very wrong. I thought you stated they don’t even get enough off hours to sleep but you want them on the internet. Or would there be a internet czar who would make sure they were only using it to talk to family?

Bingo! I think crew would be happier if they were given a free massage once a week. Think how achy their muscles must be after catering to all the whims of passengers. It’s appalling the cruise line can’t provide massages—as it wouldn’t cost them anything. They could get them at night when the spa is closed to  guests. Can we please start a petition? (Insert Tongue in cheek emoji)

🫥😶

[alfaeric]

3 minutes ago, cusematt4 said:

🫥😶

Our resident seafarer has pointed out that they are covered under international laws.  You think they are not, but they are.  https://www.ilo.org/global/standards/maritime-labour-convention/lang--en/index.htm

 

It's not perfect, nor does it cover what you think it probably should, but it's international law.

[SG65CB]

If you ever need free Wi-Fi in port ask your waiter or cabin attendant, they know all the best places. 

[Ocean Boy]

50 minutes ago, cusematt4 said:

I’m amazed so many people could care less about these going above and beyond for us making our cruises the vacations we love and so look forward to.

 

I’m not asking people tip more than what’s recommended (although I do and hope others do when deserved), but rather just for some basic perks to make their lives just a tad more bearable by being able to keep in touch with their family given the technology advancements (speed, capabilities and cost) over the past few years.

I'm amazed that you can't comprehend what is, and it not, any of your business. In case it isn't clear to you yet, you are not enlisting many recruits to your cause here but you can keep right on with your crusade I guess.

 

[chengkp75]

41 minutes ago, cusematt4 said:

Because they are desperate for money and are taken advantage of my cruise lines without international law/regulation.  

And, this information comes from where?

 

There are international conventions, created by the IMO (International Maritime Organization, a branch of the UN) that ensure basic rights and protections for all seafarers.  Currently, there are 164 signatory nations to the STCW (Standards of Training, Competency and Watchkeeping Convention, that regulates work/rest hour requirements) that represent the flags of 99.2% of all shipping (including Panama, Malta, and Bahamas, the top three cruise ship flags).  There are also 104 nations signatory to the MLC (Maritime Labor Convention of 2006, which regulates working conditions, pay, and basic rights of seafarers), representing 92% of world shipping, also including the cruise ship "big three" I mentioned.  So, there is international regulation (but not law, there is no "international law", really) concerning the wages and welfare of all seafarers, RCI crew included.

 

Now, how do these international regulations get enforced, if they are not law?  Each nation that is signatory to an international convention like the two mentioned above, must enact "enabling legislation" that duplicates the conditions of the conventions.  In other words, the Bahamas (RCI's preferred flag nation) has laws that mirror the STCW and MLC regulations, making them law on all ships that fly their flag.  Signatory nations further have the right to enforce these regulations on ships that do not fly their flag, if that flag state is signatory.  In other words, if a RCI crew member on a Bahamian flag RCI ship has a complaint that their pay or working conditions are not meeting the STCW or MLC standards, they can file a complaint with the USCG, which is mandated to investigate these complaints.

 

And, if your "favorite crew member" told you there is no international regulations, he/she is flat out lying to you.  It is a requirement of the STCW and MLC conventions that the basic rights and protections afforded to seafarers, and the means to remedy complaints, has to be explained to every crew member within 24 hours of joining the ship.

 

Until you get direct information from someone who is not dependent on you for a goodly portion of their income, telling you the conditions of their income, don't get too sympathetic.  As a ship's officer for 46 years, I know the law, and I know cruise ship pay and working conditions.

 

I truly do care about the welfare of the crew, on all ships everywhere in the world.  However, if you leave the DSC in place, at the level set by the cruise line, that is more than enough to thank the crew for their hard work.

 

If you really want to feel bad about some cruise ship crew, think of the deck and engineering ratings, who unlike the hotel staff who mainly work split shifts, and can have the opportunity to go ashore in port, work exclusively "day work" (0600-2000), and so are never "off duty" when the ship is in port.

 

 

[cusematt4]

5 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I'm amazed that you can't comprehend what is, and it not, any of your business. In case it isn't clear to you yet, you are not enlisting many recruits to your cause here but you can keep right on with your crusade I guess.

 

I am a good person.  My business is making sure those who care for me and those I care about have humane conditions in the day and age we live in.  If their conditions and wages aren’t changing it would be nice if they can at least have an ability to keep in touch with their family.  I am not asking for anything that would impact you or the life you so fortunately get to live in America.

[doghog]

I never concern myself with what others make, living conditions, working hours and etc. That's all between them and their employer. 

[Morecruisesplz]

15 hours ago, newcruzer2 said:

I would be interested in knowing the age range of the OP.

I would be surprised if they were over 30, it seems to be a real disconnect between what is unreasonable and actually a hardship, these days.

Let's sit down with some veterans (vfw) and listen to some stories about real hardships and things people have lived thru (most not voluntarily)

She said 40 above and a world traveler.

[alfaeric]

8 minutes ago, cusematt4 said:

I am a good person.  My business is making sure those who care for me and those I care about have humane conditions in the day and age we live in.  If their conditions and wages aren’t changing it would be nice if they can at least have an ability to keep in touch with their family.  I am not asking for anything that would impact you or the life you so fortunately get to live in America.

If you honestly think it's abusive to the worker, contact the USCG.  As has been pointed out, there are regulations that cover the workers.  Don't make up things that are not true for whatever reason.  

 

And tip them so they can pay for the internet and uniforms that people are so upset that they have to pay for. You claim that it's that important- $10 is 5 HOURS of time they can use.

 

I'm sure a lot of people want to think they are good people, too.  And instead of posting on a board that really does little, you talk to them, make them feel valued, make sure you keep their work as little as you can, and then tip them for the work they do.  Outside of not cruising, there's not much else you can do.

[Ocean Boy]

8 minutes ago, cusematt4 said:

I am a good person.  My business is making sure those who care for me and those I care about have humane conditions in the day and age we live in.  If their conditions and wages aren’t changing it would be nice if they can at least have an ability to keep in touch with their family.  I am not asking for anything that would impact you or the life you so fortunately get to live in America.

I cannot comprehend how you continue to patronize an industry that exploits the people that you claim to care so much about.

 

Humane conditions? These folks work on billion dollar cruise ships. I'm curious as to how you settled on free internet access as being to pivotal issue to focus on when it comes to treating these employees humanely.

[Morecruisesplz]

9 minutes ago, cusematt4 said:

I am a good person.  My business is making sure those who care for me and those I care about have humane conditions in the day and age we live in.  If their conditions and wages aren’t changing it would be nice if they can at least have an ability to keep in touch with their family.  I am not asking for anything that would impact you or the life you so fortunately get to live in America.

Who do you think would pay for those free uniforms, free wifi and shorter working hours for staff? Yep... us! Royal (the company you praise in other posts) has proven that they expect customers to foot the bill for even part of employee wages. 

You are a dreamer! Everone should have everything and someone else should provide it in your world. Pull your big girl panties on and flash some cash around the staff. Uniforms are $25, so start there. Bring a stack of $100 bills to distribute and stop whinning. Just don't ask us to do the same please.

[Morecruisesplz]

4 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I cannot comprehend how you continue to patronize an industry that exploits the people that you claim to care so much about.

 

Humane conditions? These folks work on billion dollar cruise ships. I'm curious as to how you settled on free internet access as being to pivotal issue to focus on when it comes to treating these employees humanely.

You said that so much clearer and nicer than my attempt. Next time I will just wait for your post, doc. Thank you!