Bahamas rears its ugly head

[john91498]

odd, no where in the article does it say the women blame carnival

[WhiteOptima]

I saw this on Good Morning America yesterday and they said they are seeking justice.  Their lawyer said Carnival is responsible for ensuring the areas they recommend are safe and they are responsible for notifying passengers of travel advisories.
 

I do not discount anything happened so don’t start bashing me but:

Where were the other guests?  No one saw anything if they were passed out and being sexually assaulted?  

It is all over the news about Bahamas so again if you choose a resort then stay with groups or stay on the ship.

[bg2310]

15 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

This kind of thing never happens in a civilized place like Las Vegas, except every day of the year.

The US is not innocent nor free of this at all either, to your point. There is plenty of poverty and criminal as well as gang activity in cities all across the US.

 

Which is quite frankly why I don't understand the people in here clutching their pearls about not stepping foot in the Bahamas or some of these other places when the same things could happen in most cities in the US just as easily.

[sparks1093]

3 minutes ago, bg2310 said:

The US is not innocent nor free of this at all either, to your point. There is plenty of poverty and criminal as well as gang activity in cities all across the US.

 

Which is quite frankly why I don't understand the people in here clutching their pearls about not stepping foot in the Bahamas or some of these other places when the same things could happen in most cities in the US just as easily.

They probably wouldn't step in any of those cities, either. Heck, we're in the middle of a crime wave here in our little village of 1700 people.

[sparks1093]

32 minutes ago, john91498 said:

odd, no where in the article does it say the women blame carnival

No, it doesn't, but it was brought up in post #11.

Edited February 9 by sparks1093

[BlerkOne]

11 minutes ago, bg2310 said:

The US is not innocent nor free of this at all either, to your point. There is plenty of poverty and criminal as well as gang activity in cities all across the US.

 

Which is quite frankly why I don't understand the people in here clutching their pearls about not stepping foot in the Bahamas or some of these other places when the same things could happen in most cities in the US just as easily.

Exactly. Why hold other countries to a higher standard or expect them to be safer, while ignoring the problems at home.

[john91498]

Staying at the Atlantis Resort for a week in July of this year. Looks like we're not leaving the resort 😒

[DCGuy64]

Maybe not the article that started this thread, but I did read at least one yesterday that said the guests held Carnival partly to blame. Can they sue Carnival? Sure they can. My attorney wife says "you can always sue, doesn't mean you'll win."

[hal2008]

1.  Legal liability and paying off some money to make matter go away are two different things.

 

2.  Bahamas and Jamaica have higher crime rates than other places.  But such incidents happen in USA EVERY DAY (just look at the statistics reported by the most major universities and they report only what happens within the boundaries of their campus - a block away and they do not have to report it. Actual such cases on most US universities are guessed to be 20 times what they are required to  report)

 

3. Whenever something happens related to cruise lines, media and public go crazy (norovirus, covid, crime, suicide, etc.)

[dlphn501]

5 hours ago, MRVEGAS711 said:

BEWARE OF THE PIRATES COVE RESORT. It WAS a Carnival excursion, even though they went privately!

Where did it say in there the name of the resort?  I didn't see it.  I'm going to Freeport next Feb (on the Elation ironically, lol).  I want to be sure we stay away from the right place.

[sparks1093]

11 minutes ago, hal2008 said:

1.  Legal liability and paying off some money to make matter go away are two different things.

 

 

True, but getting someone to represent you becomes that much harder if the contract clearly covers things. Unless you are willing to pony up the legal fees and expenses up front, which will probably exceed any settlement offered.

[bg2310]

25 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

They probably wouldn't step in any of those cities, either. Heck, we're in the middle of a crime wave here in our little village of 1700 people.

Fair enough (IF that's the case). Not saying they can't choose not to.

 

My criticism is more about those who are so loud about not going here or there acting as if it's all isolated to just those ports and cities. It's not.

 

Or those I've seen in this thread and many other threads who go on and on about how they don't step foot in this port or that port, yet fail to have the same voice for others where it could happen just as easily.

[Iamthesea]

1 hour ago, WhiteOptima said:

I saw this on Good Morning America yesterday and they said they are seeking justice.  Their lawyer said Carnival is responsible for ensuring the areas they recommend are safe and they are responsible for notifying passengers of travel advisories.
 

I do not discount anything happened so don’t start bashing me but:

Where were the other guests?  No one saw anything if they were passed out and being sexually assaulted?  

It is all over the news about Bahamas so again if you choose a resort then stay with groups or stay on the ship.

 

I have wondered the same thing!!!  The women reported that they got out of the ocean because they felt woozy, and then they passed out.  Did the men assault them there, drag them off when in a semi-conscious state, or drag them off to a hut after they passed out???  If this was in a place that Carnival shore excursions go to, you would think someone would have seen something.  Then again, from the video shown, the place looked deserted.

 

Did anyone notice that there is also a GoFund me set up for them?

[Davechipp74]

Not to victim blame but 2 young women drinking around strange men in a country with a level 2 out of 4 travel advisory. Sometimes the most dangerous thing is not realizing you're in a dangerous situation. I've seen people get complement in war zones and get killed.  

[mz-s]

1 minute ago, Davechipp74 said:

Not to victim blame but 2 young women drinking around strange men in a country with a level 2 out of 4 travel advisory. Sometimes the most dangerous thing is not realizing you're in a dangerous situation. I've seen people get complement in war zones and get killed.  

 

Actually, that is victim blaming.

[stobe1]

10 minutes ago, Davechipp74 said:

Not to victim blame but 2 young women drinking around strange men in a country with a level 2 out of 4 travel advisory. Sometimes the most dangerous thing is not realizing you're in a dangerous situation. I've seen people get complement in war zones and get killed.  

 

8 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

Actually, that is victim blaming.

 

Except those "strange men" were employees of the resort they were at, according to initial reports. So you do have a reasonable expectation of safety around them (at least in my view you do). I don't think these ladies were "asking for it" by being at a resort in the Bahamas enjoying their vacation, regardless of what level the travel advisory is at.

 

I hope these guys are punished to the maximum extent allowable by Bahamian law and I am sure a Bahamian prison is no picnic. It probably makes Rikers Island look like the Cloud 9 Spa. 

[jsglow]

So there are some other stories hitting the news and apparently there is a significant amount of surveillance camera footage. We'll see where this goes next.

[Butterbean1000]

2 hours ago, bg2310 said:

That's absolutely terrible and I hope the victims are okay. Unfortunately crime is a reality, which means we all must be vigilant. 

 

I just don't see how Carnival would or could be culpable here though. They are 2 adults who made the decision to go on a private excursion with no one else, and in a country like Bahamas where impoverished conditions are rampant and criminal/gang activity run afoot as a result. This should never have happened to those girls, but also they shouldn't have gone by themselves. It is therefore on them in this situation. They should have known better.

 

People need to stop throwing blame around and start taking some responsibility for their own decisions and actions. 

Because we are a litigious society.   We are always trying to blame someone else for our own actions.  Now I am not saying these women are at fault.  If anything at all, being a little too trusting, maybe.  But they did not deserve what happened to them.  The people at fault are the low life bottom feeders who perpetrated the crime.

[audcc77]

4 hours ago, Moparfiend said:

Makes me rethink the Pirates Cove excursion for family and friends, it's still offered by Carnival

The 2 women went to Pirates Cove as an independent excursion.   I can’t see how Carnival will be held liable because it was independently.   That’s not to say that it would not have happened just the same if they had been on the Carnival excursion.  In which case, only then would Carnival be liable.

 

This may be an unpopular opinion, but if it were me, I’d get a Bahamian lawyer and totally sue Pirates Cove.  It sounds like the bartenders were the ones who did it.  And I think each only had 1 drink. 
 

We are going to Freeport in a few weeks.  We are toying with the idea of taking a taxi to  Grand Lucayan Resort.  
 

In the US, if one goes to a restaurant or bar then that establishment is responsible for all invitees. The invitees should have a reasonable expectation that they will not be drugged by that establishment.  

 

I hate that this happened to them.  Hopefully they can get justice.  

Edited February 9 by audcc77
adding

[Mike45LC]

According to the article linked at the beginning of this thread:  "The two mothers told ABC News that the arrests are not enough and are demanding justice."

 

To me, "justice" means arresting and prosecuting the accused culprits, but that is already happening.  If I read the article correctly, these two victims are demanding a cash payout as "justice."  

[audcc77]

4 minutes ago, Mike45LC said:

If I read the article correctly, these two victims are demanding a cash payout as "justice."  

And so be it.  The place where these ladies went should be held accountable. If not,  then it will happen again and again if there are no repercussions.  Perhaps being more selective in their hiring practices would be the way to go.  🤷‍♀️

Just sayin’ …

 

[stobe1]

25 minutes ago, Mike45LC said:

According to the article linked at the beginning of this thread:  "The two mothers told ABC News that the arrests are not enough and are demanding justice."

 

To me, "justice" means arresting and prosecuting the accused culprits, but that is already happening.  If I read the article correctly, these two victims are demanding a cash payout as "justice."  

 

Cash is always a remedy.

 

If you have a slight fender bender, the person you hit will be collecting cash from your insurance. I barely tapped someone in the grocery store parking lot once and the man claimed he had severe injuries. Riiight. There was barely any missing paint on our vehicles. Money cant buy happiness. But it can buy the things that do.

 

If what these ladies claim happened is true, they should be compensated monetarily since they truly had harm and pain and suffering (again assuming their story is true).  But not from Carnival. From the resort and personally from the men involved. In addition, the men involved should face jail time if they are convicted. 

 

Full Disclaimer: I am no legal scholar and know even less about Bahamaian law. Surprise, surprise.

Edited February 9 by stobe1

[BlerkOne]

35 minutes ago, Mike45LC said:

 If I read the article correctly, these two victims are demanding a cash payout as "justice."  

Misery loves company. Why have two victims when you can add Carnival? It's like blaming Carnival for the weather.

[Bill Miller]

Dang, when I read the topic headline, Bahamas rears its ugly head, I thought it was about the new Bahamian, Value Added Tax. 

Value Added Tax, a sinister drop dead to the cruise lines who have kept the limestone rock islands floating in dollars since the 1960's. 

 

[Alexintheboro]

2 hours ago, jsglow said:

So there are some other stories hitting the news and apparently there is a significant amount of surveillance camera footage. We'll see where this goes next.

 

It has come to light that there are inconsistencies in their stories.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13061357/kentucky-women-raped-bahamas-resort-staff-attack.html?ico=authors_pagination_desktop