passport question.

[IntrepidFromDC]

29 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Consular Presence

The United States maintains no official presence in St. Kitts and Nevis. A U.S. consular agent residing in nearby Antigua, however, assists U.S. citizens in St. Kitts and Nevis. U.S. EMBASSY TO BARBADOS, ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA, DOMINICA, GRENADA, SAINT KITTS AND NEVIS, SAINT LUCIA, AND SAINT VINCENT AND THE GRENADINES-https://bb.usembassy.gov/contact/#emergencies

There is always a US Consular agent in countries where cruise ships visit.  

The plot thickens

 

[sparks1093]

7 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Boat and car but why would you need a passport to fly inside a country?

Because you don't have the documents to travel that way in the country. You are there under an exception that is recognized by treaty, but that doesn't mean that you have the authority to stay once the ship leaves nor does it give you the authority to just travel about in those circumstances. You need to obtain a waiver from someone to travel anywhere, so again- you can be given a waiver to travel wherever you have to travel in order to get the emergency passport that you insist is the only way, or you can be granted a waiver to fly directly to the US where you can be processed by US authorities. The second option is the one that involves the least amount of red tape and may be done by the US government acting on its own, using the authority that exists within the regulations. The first option adds layers and complexities that are not necessary. I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand we are talking about an emergency, and exceptions are made to the normal rules for emergencies. That includes the need for a passport in certain limited circumstances. 

[aborgman]

10 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Boat and car but why would you need a passport to fly inside a country?

 

In Mexico - technically the law requires that foreign visitors carry their entry identification (passport, etc.) and entry permit on them at all times.

 

It's basically unenforced in Cozumel (although there have been numerous issues for land based tourists) - but if you start traveling across the Yucatan to Merida... you might have issues.

[aborgman]

10 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Consular Presence

The United States maintains no official presence in St. Kitts and Nevis. A U.S. consular agent residing in nearby Antigua, however, assists U.S. citizens in St. Kitts and Nevis. U.S. EMBASSY TO BARBADOS, ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA, DOMINICA, GRENADA, SAINT KITTS AND NEVIS, SAINT LUCIA, AND SAINT VINCENT AND THE GRENADINES-https://bb.usembassy.gov/contact/#emergencies

There is always a US Consular agent in countries where cruise ships visit.  

 

You said literally said - "There is a consulate in the(sic) every country"

 

A consular presence is not a consulate.

A consular presence IN ANOTHER COUNTRY is definitely not a consulate in the country.

 

Nearby Antigua is a different country than St. Kitts.

There is a consular presence, in another country, for St. Kitts.

 

There is not a consulate in St. Kitts.

Edited April 5 by aborgman

[jimbo5544]

12 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Boat and car but why would you need a passport to fly inside a country?

illness or removed from ship

[sparks1093]

12 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

illness or removed from ship

We're talking about someone who doesn't have a passport who has to return home. The previous poster is saying they will need to go to a consulate even if it happens to be on another island and I pointed out that if a person has to go to another island they wouldn't be able to because they don't have a passport and it is therefore easier for the authorities to issue a waiver to allow said passenger to fly back to the US.

[Elaine5715]

13 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

We're talking about someone who doesn't have a passport who has to return home. The previous poster is saying they will need to go to a consulate even if it happens to be on another island and I pointed out that if a person has to go to another island they wouldn't be able to because they don't have a passport and it is therefore easier for the authorities to issue a waiver to allow said passenger to fly back to the US.

And as I posted the US Consulate has an emergency number.  If you truly believe anyone can get get a "waiver" to fly to the US, why would they need a passport to travel inside another country?  Also, there is more than one way to travel.  Neither the US Consulate nor a foreign government is responsible for someone's failure to follow their recommendations.  So, why in the thread, I posted the person wasn't given this "waiver"?

[Elaine5715]

2 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

You said literally said - "There is a consulate in the(sic) every country"

 

A consular presence is not a consulate.

A consular presence IN ANOTHER COUNTRY is definitely not a consulate in the country.

 

Nearby Antigua is a different country than St. Kitts.

There is a consular presence, in another country, for St. Kitts.

 

There is not a consulate in St. Kitts.

Is there a reason the US Consulate would post false information?   

[Elaine5715]

5 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Because you don't have the documents to travel that way in the country. You are there under an exception that is recognized by treaty, but that doesn't mean that you have the authority to stay once the ship leaves nor does it give you the authority to just travel about in those circumstances. You need to obtain a waiver from someone to travel anywhere, so again- you can be given a waiver to travel wherever you have to travel in order to get the emergency passport that you insist is the only way, or you can be granted a waiver to fly directly to the US where you can be processed by US authorities. The second option is the one that involves the least amount of red tape and may be done by the US government acting on its own, using the authority that exists within the regulations. The first option adds layers and complexities that are not necessary. I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand we are talking about an emergency, and exceptions are made to the normal rules for emergencies. That includes the need for a passport in certain limited circumstances. 

Your source?  Missing a boat isn't an emergency. Being sick or injured isn't an emergency.  Exceptions are not made for individual  travelers who choose to travel outside the US without a passport unless they can physically present themselves at a US Border.  No airline will accept a passenger without means to enter the US.  Thus why you need to present your passport at the airport both at entry and at boarding.  

The designated US Consulate information is in the FunTimes and known to Port officials.  If the US Consulate isn't close to the port, I am pretty sure they will give to instructions on your next step but they are your only source of assistance.  Delta Airlines isn't going to ask you some extra questions and put you on their plane.  

 

[sparks1093]

18 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

And as I posted the US Consulate has an emergency number.  If you truly believe anyone can get get a "waiver" to fly to the US, why would they need a passport to travel inside another country?  Also, there is more than one way to travel.  Neither the US Consulate nor a foreign government is responsible for someone's failure to follow their recommendations.  So, why in the thread, I posted the person wasn't given this "waiver"?

But you said that a person had to go in person to a consulate, not just call them. We are talking about US citizens on a closed loop cruise traveling with something other than a passport and needing to go home. The point is once the cruise ship leave you no longer have legal presence in that country, so you going anywhere is problematic. And I already gave you the answer why that person wasn't given a waiver- they had to catch up with the ship, they weren't returning home and yes, in order to do that they needed to get a passport. Had this happened on an island without an Embassy/Consulate than their only option would be to fly back to the US. Again, the regulations that give us the closed loop exception also give the authorities the ability to issue a waiver to the passport requirement to return to the US.

[sparks1093]

18 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Your source?  Missing a boat isn't an emergency. Being sick or injured isn't an emergency.  Exceptions are not made for individual  travelers who choose to travel outside the US without a passport unless they can physically present themselves at a US Border.  No airline will accept a passenger without means to enter the US.  Thus why you need to present your passport at the airport both at entry and at boarding.  

The designated US Consulate information is in the FunTimes and known to Port officials.  If the US Consulate isn't close to the port, I am pretty sure they will give to instructions on your next step but they are your only source of assistance.  Delta Airlines isn't going to ask you some extra questions and put you on their plane.  

 

It is an emergency as in an unforeseen circumstance. My source is here Federal Register :: Documents Required for Travelers Departing From or Arriving in the United States at Sea and Land Ports-of-Entry From Within the Western Hemisphere subparagraphs (9) and (10) and they absolutely do provide waivers to individual travelers. The US isn't going to give someone the ability to travel outside of the country without a passport without also providing a means for getting them home if the need arises. As I understand the process as it is related by those who have experienced it the cruise line/port agent communicates with CBP and CBP issues a waiver for the passenger to board a plane directly back to the US and then the cruise line/port agent notifies the airline of the waiver. The passenger is sent to secondary inspection upon arrival in the US and then is allowed to go on their way. It does take time for all of this to happen and the passenger has nothing to do but wait. And your first point of contact is the port agent, who has dealt with all of this before and knows exactly what to do and what calls to make.

 

And this is the definition of emergency (Merriam Webster) 

1

: an unforeseen combination of circumstances or the resulting state that calls for immediate action

: an urgent need for assistance or relief

Edited April 5 by sparks1093

[Homosassa]

12 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Ihe US isn't going to give someone the ability to travel  As I understand the process as it is related by those who have experienced it the cruise line/port agent communicates with CBP and CBP issues a waiver for the passenger to board a plane directly back to the US and then the cruise line/port agent notifies the airline of the waiver. The passenger is sent to secondary inspection upon arrival in the US and then is allowed to go on their way. It does take time for all of this to happen and the passenger has nothing to do but wait. And your first point of contact is the port agent, who has dealt with all of this before and knows exactly what to do and what calls to make.

 

 

"Ay, there's the rub."

 

Most people forget there is another country involved with their own immigration and custom authorities.

 

One needs to be able to meet that country's C&I laws for entering the country and leaving the country by air.

 

There is also the problem where there may not be any direct flights back to the US from the country and where, especially in small island nations such as in the Caribbean, water transportation or inter-island air hop is needed to reach such a flight that most likely will be located in a different country with their own C&I requirements.

[aborgman]

2 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Is there a reason the US Consulate would post false information?   

 

The information from the US Consulate is 100% correct - it just does not say what you claimed.

 

1)

The information from the US Consulate says there is a "consular presence ".

You said there was a "consulate".

 

A consular presence IS NOT a consulate.

 

 

2)

The information from the US Consulate says the "consular presence" for St. Kitts is in Antigua.

You said the consulate was in the country.

 

Antigua is a DIFFERENT COUNTRY from St. Kitts.

 

 

The US Consulate said there is a consular presence for people in St. Kitts, located in Antigua.

You said there was a Consulate located in St. Kitts.

[aborgman]

2 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

And as I posted the US Consulate has an emergency number.  If you truly believe anyone can get get a "waiver" to fly to the US, why would they need a passport to travel inside another country?  Also, there is more than one way to travel.  Neither the US Consulate nor a foreign government is responsible for someone's failure to follow their recommendations.  So, why in the thread, I posted the person wasn't given this "waiver"?

 

1) "Anyone" can't get a passport waiver. A US citizen, vetted by a consulate/consular presence/embassy can get a waiver in special circumstances.

 

2) The documents you need to travel in another country are up to the other country. The documents you need to enter the USA are up to the USA. They are completely unrelated. Mexico can require you to carry a passport, while the US can let you in without one if they choose.

 

3) In the thread you posted - the person wasn't going back to the USA. They were transiting THROUGH the USA on the way to Jamaica. The US consulate giving you a waiver would get you back into the USA... but you'd still be missing the passport you need to get into Jamaica to get back on the ship.

 

If they had chosen to not re-join the cruise in Jamaica, and had decided to just return to the USA - they could have gotten a waiver.

[aborgman]

2 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Your source?  Missing a boat isn't an emergency. Being sick or injured isn't an emergency.  Exceptions are not made for individual  travelers who choose to travel outside the US without a passport unless they can physically present themselves at a US Border.  No airline will accept a passenger without means to enter the US.  Thus why you need to present your passport at the airport both at entry and at boarding.  

The designated US Consulate information is in the FunTimes and known to Port officials.  If the US Consulate isn't close to the port, I am pretty sure they will give to instructions on your next step but they are your only source of assistance.  Delta Airlines isn't going to ask you some extra questions and put you on their plane.  

 

 

Being in a foreign country without a way to re-enter the USA, as a citizen - IS an emergency.

 

Waivers fall under the "Domestic Passport Waiver" program:

 

"Passport waivers are issued as an exception to the requirement under 8 U.S.C. 1185(b) of U.S. citizens to enter and depart the U.S. on a valid U.S. passport.  A passport waiver serves only to exempt a U.S. citizen/non-citizen U.S. national from this provision of U.S. law and does not constitute permission from the U. S. government for a U.S. citizen/non-citizen U.S. national to enter a foreign country’s territory without the appropriate documentation."

[SRF]

On 4/4/2024 at 10:54 AM, Elaine5715 said:

There is a Consulate in the every country and you are required to present yourself there in person. 

 

NOT true.

There is an Embassy in most every country that the US has diplomatic relations with.  Which is most of them, and probably any that you would cruise to.

 

Each Embassy has a Consular section that can help you.  The US Embassy is in the capitol city of the country.  In addition, there are Consulates in some cities, such as in Mexico.  The Embassy is in Mexico City, but there are Consulates in Tijuana, Nogales, Hermosillo, etc.  They also provide consular services, such as emergency passports.

There are a few countries, such as Sao Tome and Principal, that only has a office.  Our interests are represented by the Embassy in Libreville, Gabon.

 

There are not countries with a Consulate and not an Embassy.

[SRF]

26 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

The information from the US Consulate is 100% correct - it just does not say what you claimed.

 

1)

The information from the US Consulate says there is a "consular presence ".

You said there was a "consulate".

 

A consular presence IS NOT a consulate.

 

 

2)

The information from the US Consulate says the "consular presence" for St. Kitts is in Antigua.

You said the consulate was in the country.

 

Antigua is a DIFFERENT COUNTRY from St. Kitts.

 

 

The US Consulate said there is a consular presence for people in St. Kitts, located in Antigua.

You said there was a Consulate located in St. Kitts.

 

Antigua used to have a Consular Agency.  These are small offices that provide certain services, normally to American Expats living in that country.  Things like accepting passport applications (like the post office in the US), and notarizing documents. 

 

They are not consulates, and do not issue passports or visas, etc.