Another_Critic Posted April 6 #726 Share Posted April 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, alfaeric said: But those are considered Eastern Caribbean cruises, not Southern. We were just on both of those islands on the Vision, so I'm well aware that they are out of Baltimore. Again, those islands are reachable from NJ on the Anthem- so they are far from unique to Baltimore. Royal markets the ABC's as Southern Caribbean. I've gotten there mostly from San Juan, but recently out of FLL on Harmony. If you want to insist that Eastern Caribbean cruises are Southern, that's fine, just not how they are marketed. And it's confusing when people mix terminology. https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruises?search=departurePort:BWI|nights:gte12&country=USA Complain to RCI, not ME. Cape Liberty: With Barbados and St. Lucia = Southern Without = Eastern https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruises?search=departurePort:BYE|nights:9~11,gte12|ship:AN,OY&country=USA Edited April 6 by Another_Critic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatka Posted April 6 #727 Share Posted April 6 Nope, they are Southern Royal even markets cruises with Antigua and St Kitts (Anthem) as Southern 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another_Critic Posted April 6 #728 Share Posted April 6 Back on topic ... Body of third construction worker recovered from Key Bridge wreckage in Baltimore (msn.com) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted April 6 #729 Share Posted April 6 They're starting to remove the damaged containers on the bow of the ship today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB_NJ Posted April 6 #730 Share Posted April 6 21 hours ago, alfaeric said: They can adjust the number of 11/12 nighters out of NJ. The time it takes to sail to destinations south is almost exactly the same, anyway. Really, the only thing special about Baltimore is the small, old, ships which generally means lower priced itineraries. We would have chosen the Anthem had the prices been anywhere near the Vision for the B2Bs we just took. Personally we prefer the older smaller ships (hate Anthem, will never sail on her again) which is why we have a cruise booked out of Baltimore. Different ships for different tastes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBE4 Posted April 6 #731 Share Posted April 6 15 hours ago, Another_Critic said: https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruises?search=departurePort:BWI|nights:gte12&country=USA Complain to RCI, not ME. Cape Liberty: With Barbados and St. Lucia = Southern Without = Eastern https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruises?search=departurePort:BYE|nights:9~11,gte12|ship:AN,OY&country=USA 15 hours ago, Tatka said: Nope, they are Southern Royal even markets cruises with Antigua and St Kitts (Anthem) as Southern Looks like St, Martin & Antigua identify with both Eastern and Southern. Does that make them itinerary-fluid? 😁 Hope that joke isn't to edgy🤪 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted April 6 #732 Share Posted April 6 It seems like Puerto Rico tends to be the "border" between eastern and southern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted April 6 #733 Share Posted April 6 14 minutes ago, HBE4 said: Looks like St, Martin & Antigua identify with both Eastern and Southern. Does that make them itinerary-fluid? 😁 Hope that joke isn't to edgy🤪 What they call it depends on how the cruise line wants to market it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean Boy Posted April 6 #734 Share Posted April 6 22 minutes ago, LB_NJ said: Personally we prefer the older smaller ships (hate Anthem, will never sail on her again) which is why we have a cruise booked out of Baltimore. Different ships for different tastes. What did you not like about Anthem? I've never been aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB_NJ Posted April 6 #735 Share Posted April 6 41 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said: What did you not like about Anthem? I've never been aboard. I didn't like the food. I thought it was too big. It didn't have an outside promenade. The only good thing was the entertainment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted April 6 #736 Share Posted April 6 There is an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal by a civil engineer who proposes rebulding the bridge before the end of the year by keeping what is left in place, the approaches, and just replacing the 1200 foot span, truss design and all. I hope not. The design is outdated and I would hope that lessons would be learned from the catastrophe and that they would not rebuild it like it was built. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not-enough-cruising Posted April 6 #737 Share Posted April 6 23 minutes ago, Charles4515 said: There is an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal by a civil engineer who proposes rebulding the bridge before the end of the year by keeping what is left in place, the approaches, and just replacing the 1200 foot span, truss design and all. I hope not. The design is outdated and I would hope that lessons would be learned from the catastrophe and that they would not rebuild it like it was built. . Bridge design and construction had little to do with the collapse. The lack of adequate barricades around the support structures was the downfall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pratique Posted April 6 #738 Share Posted April 6 1 hour ago, Charles4515 said: There is an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal by a civil engineer who proposes rebulding the bridge before the end of the year by keeping what is left in place, the approaches, and just replacing the 1200 foot span, truss design and all. I hope not. The design is outdated and I would hope that lessons would be learned from the catastrophe and that they would not rebuild it like it was built. . They have already said the new bridge will be built to current standards, so replicating the original truss probably won't cut it. Also, truss bridges are heavier and more expensive than cable stayed bridges, which is the most likely way they will go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfaeric Posted April 7 #739 Share Posted April 7 2 hours ago, Charles4515 said: There is an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal by a civil engineer who proposes rebulding the bridge before the end of the year by keeping what is left in place, the approaches, and just replacing the 1200 foot span, truss design and all. I hope not. The design is outdated and I would hope that lessons would be learned from the catastrophe and that they would not rebuild it like it was built. . Everyone can have an opinion. Mine is to use a design that puts the main structure far enough in from the channel to add a large grounding buffer to the bridge structure. May be cheaper than adding a bunch of dolphins, and pretty effective since a ship can go aground only so much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare death_star Posted April 7 #740 Share Posted April 7 44 minutes ago, alfaeric said: Everyone can have an opinion. Mine is to use a design that puts the main structure far enough in from the channel to add a large grounding buffer to the bridge structure. May be cheaper than adding a bunch of dolphins, and pretty effective since a ship can go aground only so much. Then it's really mainly barge traffic to put up a dolphin or something against vs a container ship. Maybe they'll take down some of the approaches too since those piers where the alternate channels are now would be the weakest link so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted April 7 #741 Share Posted April 7 The Key Bridge was a fine design for 1970s needs. Things have changed, obviously, since then, and I'd expect a very different bridge to replace it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jean87510 Posted April 7 #742 Share Posted April 7 On 4/5/2024 at 10:28 AM, Another_Critic said: Which cruises out of Cape Liberty have gone to Aruba? Explorer 2014 Reposition cruise from Bayonne to Port Canaveral. Had 8 ports which included ABCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jean87510 Posted April 7 #743 Share Posted April 7 I will add I prefer the Baltimore port as it's closer to us and parking is cheaper than Bayonne. I just don't like the itineraries because most of them have CocoCay and Nassau or other Bahamas which I despise. If I missed an itinerary without these, and have the Southern Caribbean, let me know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker19 Posted April 7 #744 Share Posted April 7 1 hour ago, jean87510 said: I will add I prefer the Baltimore port as it's closer to us and parking is cheaper than Bayonne. I just don't like the itineraries because most of them have CocoCay and Nassau or other Bahamas which I despise. If I missed an itinerary without these, and have the Southern Caribbean, let me know. Typically, over the winter Baltimore ships include 11/12/13 day sailings to Eastern/Southern Caribbean which don’t include any stops in the Bahamas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipgeeks Posted April 7 #745 Share Posted April 7 I'm just happy that Baltimore never has 3- and 4-night cruises! Apart from that, I'm very pleased with the variety of itineraries, most of which are 9 and 12-ish nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare TPKeller Posted April 8 #746 Share Posted April 8 On 4/6/2024 at 5:48 PM, not-enough-cruising said: Bridge design and construction had little to do with the collapse. The lack of adequate barricades around the support structures was the downfall. Go back and watch the first NTSB press conference after the collapse. The Chair of the NTSB described the design of the bridge as fracture critical. That literally means that if even one load-bearing component of the bridge fails, the entire bridge will fail. This weakness was knowingly and intentionally designed into the bridge from the drawing board. The Chair went on to say that modern bridges are built with redundancy. Design played a huge role in the collapse. Obviously, if the ship had not hit it, it would still be standing, but it's simply incorrect to say that the design had "little to do" with it. I doubt we will ever know if a more robust design would have survived the allision, although I suspect the engineers will certainly play those simulations with the designs they propose to replace the bridge. I suspect that as reporters start covering the news of whatever new bridge is to come, that will be a very often asked question, "Will this bridge survive a similar impact?" If the interviewees consistently redirect those questions to talk about increased protection against future impacts, then I guess we will be able to assume the answer is "no!" Theron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfaeric Posted April 23 #747 Share Posted April 23 Reviving this thread as there's going to be a limited access channel opening on Thursday. So it's quite possible the channel will be totally back open when the Vision returns to service. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipgeeks Posted April 23 #748 Share Posted April 23 Anyone else besides Mr. Shipgeeks watching the recovery process for hours at a time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Engineroom Snipe Posted April 23 #749 Share Posted April 23 2 minutes ago, alfaeric said: Reviving this thread as there's going to be a limited access channel opening on Thursday. So it's quite possible the channel will be totally back open when the Vision returns to service. @alfaeric, This post is in reference, tongue-in-cheek (and maybe biting it!) to an earlier post where I would I bet my house on this being impossible Thanks, just when I thought this thread would disappear. On the advice of the shadiest lawyer I could find, who just happens to list on his resume that he worked in Casino Bankruptcies in Atlantic City, NJ, in the early 1990s with some famous clients: I have used my house as collateral against a loan. My house is only valued at $500,000 but I believe that they do not have any appreciation for the unique value my name brings to the property and will value it at about 10, maybe 20 times what they say it is worth. There could be about $100,000 equity left (of $10,000,000) but after the lawyers, taxmen, and real estate people get finished chewing on the carcass, I believe that the posters who have challenged me will get at least $17.00 each to buy you one drink with gratuities included on your next cruise. You may now dance on my grave. I am going to be so happy I was wrong and have to eat crow. I still have a great vacation home in the Cayman Islands. 🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pratique Posted April 23 #750 Share Posted April 23 30 minutes ago, alfaeric said: Reviving this thread as there's going to be a limited access channel opening on Thursday. Caveat is that this temporary channel is only for essential vessels (whatever that means) and will only be open until Monday or Tuesday. The Baltimore Sun reports the channel will then remain closed until May 10. "The Captain of the Port (COTP) plans to establish the Fort McHenry Limited Access Channel for commercially essential vessels on Thursday, April 25th until 6 a.m. Monday, April 29th or Tuesday, April 30th if weather adversely impacts vessel transits." https://homeport.uscg.mil/Lists/Content/DispForm.aspx?ID=89633&Source=/Lists/Content/DispForm.aspx?ID=89633 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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