Hope this isn’t true and doesn’t happen

[aborgman]

12 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

 

• Due to state laws, we cannot sell CHEERS! until the second day of the cruise (starting at 6:00am) for voyages departing from our Texas, New York, and Virginia home ports. Drinks purchased on the first day of the cruise will be charged to the guest's Sail & Sign® card in the usual manner. When purchased on the second day of the cruise, guests are charged for the remaining days only (cruise duration less one day)
• https://www.carnival.com/help?topicid=1106

 

Yeah - Carnival is just straight up lying there.

 

 

[sparks1093]

9 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Yeah - Carnival is just straight up lying there.

 

 

I don't think so. There are two types of taxes at work here. The sales tax on individual purchases. We've been charged that many times when using Cheers. There is also a liquor tax that is paid when the bottles are purchased and Carnival does not pay that tax unless it purchases the liquor that jurisdiction. As I understand it in those locations Carnival does buy a limited quantity to sell while in that state's waters and that is what they sell to customers. Once at sea they can start selling the liquor that they didn't pay tax on and that's when they turn Cheers on. (That is only as I understand it from reading many posts on CC, I haven't dived into the local laws at all on this one.)

[aborgman]

5 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

I don't think so. There are two types of taxes at work here. The sales tax on individual purchases. We've been charged that many times when using Cheers. There is also a liquor tax that is paid when the bottles are purchased and Carnival does not pay that tax unless it purchases the liquor that jurisdiction. As I understand it in those locations Carnival does buy a limited quantity to sell while in that state's waters and that is what they sell to customers. Once at sea they can start selling the liquor that they didn't pay tax on and that's when they turn Cheers on. (That is only as I understand it from reading many posts on CC, I haven't dived into the local laws at all on this one.)

 

That is largely correct.

 

It also is not a law that prevents them from providing Cheers.

 

Carnival could choose to buy enough liquor in those taxing jurisdictions to cover Cheers. They choose not to.

 

Other cruise lines DO offer drink packages immediately. They pay extra cost for that - but they are not violating any law.

 

 

[mz-s]

Regulations prevent Carnival from offering an unmodified version of Cheers in Texas. So while it is not telling the whole truth, it is also not really a lie.

 

But as has been mentioned it's all academic. What matters is brass tacks - no matter the true reason, you're not getting Cheers until day 2. So with that fact in mind do you still want to buy Cheers, or even buy the Carnival cruise? I'm sure to some people not getting Cheers on day 1 is a deal-breaker for the whole cruise.

[aborgman]

55 minutes ago, mz-s said:

Regulations prevent Carnival from offering an unmodified version of Cheers in Texas. So while it is not telling the whole truth, it is also not really a lie.

 

 

That is where we have to disagree.

 

There is an intent to deceive.

[mz-s]

8 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

That is where we have to disagree.

 

There is an intent to deceive.

 

It is absolutely gaslighting I agree with you there.

[sparks1093]

11 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

That is where we have to disagree.

 

There is an intent to deceive.

If their lawyers are interpreting the law differently than other cruise line lawyers is it really an intent to deceive? Put three lawyers in a room together and you'll get four different interpretations of the law.

[aborgman]

22 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

If their lawyers are interpreting the law differently than other cruise line lawyers is it really an intent to deceive? Put three lawyers in a room together and you'll get four different interpretations of the law.

 

They aren't interpreting the law differently.

 

They are choosing not to provide Cheers because doing so in Texas waters would require them to use tax stamped liquor that costs more.

 

Other cruise lines choose to purchase tax stamped liquor for use that first day.

 

This isn't about the law, it's about the law increasing Carnivals cost and Carnival choosing not to bear that cost.

 

The deception is pretending like the law prohibits it as opposed to just saying the law increases costs so it isn't profitable to provide.

 

[sparks1093]

3 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

They aren't interpreting the law differently.

 

They are choosing not to provide Cheers because doing so in Texas waters would require them to use tax stamped liquor that costs more.

 

Other cruise lines choose to purchase tax stamped liquor for use that first day.

 

This isn't about the law, it's about the law increasing Carnivals cost and Carnival choosing not to bear that cost.

 

The deception is pretending like the law prohibits it as opposed to just saying the law increases costs so it isn't profitable to provide.

 

Glad I'm not a lawyer, the whole thing makes my head hurt. In any event the average cruiser is more apt to understand the first part of the last sentence than the last.

[StephPS79]

3 hours ago, aborgman said:

This isn't about the law, it's about the law 

 

So it is about the law...

 

3 hours ago, aborgman said:

The deception is pretending like the law prohibits it as opposed to just saying the law increases costs so it isn't profitable to provide.

 

Most businesses aren't going to say "We're doing this because it's cheaper for us.  Sure, we could do it, but it will cost us more money, so we won't."

 

But the bottom line is the decision is based on the law and the impacts of the law.  This isn't deception.  It's business.

[aborgman]

1 hour ago, StephPS79 said:

Most businesses aren't going to say "We're doing this because it's cheaper for us.  Sure, we could do it, but it will cost us more money, so we won't."

 

But the bottom line is the decision is based on the law and the impacts of the law.  This isn't deception.  It's business.

 

It IS business, and most businesses would do the same.

 

...that doesn't change one bit that it is an intent to deceive.

 

Most businesses aren't going to tell you they're doing it to increase profit. Most businesses just don't give any reasoning... but in general, when businesses do giver reasons - they lie. Like a rug. To make themselves look better and not lose business.

 

It is business - and business REGULARLY involves deception (heck, it's just about the point of marketing).

 

Just remember that all publicly traded businesses are amoral (not moral or immoral - amoral) and will do whatever they can within the law to increase profit.

 

They aren't loyal to their customers (except where it increases profit), they don't care about their customers (except where pretending to increases profit), they will lie to customers if they can legally do so and it increases profits (...and oh boy does big business love lies of omission) - that is just the nature of late stage capitalism and the businesses that inhabit it.

 

All of them. In every industry.

Edited April 2 by aborgman

[PlanoTim]

We sail out of Galveston some and Cheers starting on day two isn’t a huge issue for us.  I guess Carnival could offer it on day one, but only after they got out of Texas waters (5pm-ish).  But that might be an issue for some passengers, thinking they were paying for a whole day of Cheers and only able to use it after leaving the state late in the afternoon.  In fact some folks might think Cheers available from the moment the boarded, but with a limited selection of alcohol sourced and taxed in Texas, would be a rip-off.  Maybe they just figured it was easier to just start on day 2.  But they should be up front with their reasoning, IMHO.  Either that or go ask Royal Caribbean how that do it. 😋

[PlanoTim]

21 minutes ago, PlanoTim said:

We sail out of Galveston some and Cheers starting on day two isn’t a huge issue for us.  I guess Carnival could offer it on day one, but only after they got out of Texas waters (5pm-ish).  But that might be an issue for some passengers, thinking they were paying for a whole day of Cheers and only able to use it after leaving the state late in the afternoon.  In fact some folks might think Cheers available from the moment the boarded, but with a limited selection of alcohol sourced and taxed in Texas, would be a rip-off.  Maybe they just figured it was easier to just start on day 2.  But they should be up front with their reasoning, IMHO.  Either that or go ask Royal Caribbean how that do it. 😋

I’ve also wondered if Carnival gets complaints at other ports that offer Cheers on day 1.  They charge full price on day 1, right?  But if you have a 2:30 PM port-arrival time you may not get to use Cheers till 3:00 PM or so.  Cheers starts at 6:00 AM every other day of the cruise.  So you are paying for the entire day on day 1 and not getting to use it till mid-afternoon.

[cruisegus]

46 minutes ago, PlanoTim said:

We sail out of Galveston some and Cheers starting on day two isn’t a huge issue for us.  I guess Carnival could offer it on day one, but only after they got out of Texas waters (5pm-ish).  But that might be an issue for some passengers, thinking they were paying for a whole day of Cheers and only able to use it after leaving the state late in the afternoon.  In fact some folks might think Cheers available from the moment the boarded, but with a limited selection of alcohol sourced and taxed in Texas, would be a rip-off.  Maybe they just figured it was easier to just start on day 2.  But they should be up front with their reasoning, IMHO.  Either that or go ask Royal Caribbean how that do it. 😋

 Belive me it is a PITA for Royal to do in Galveston, bar shut down for 10-15 minutes in some cases to change out bottle with Texas Tax Stamps.

 

It is interesting I was on a Royal ship on their last 2 Galveston sailing before heading with no passengers to Florida.  Next to the last sailing they ran out of some types of liquor, then On last sailing they just used up the rest of the Texas Tax Stamped liquor 

[tidecat]

27 minutes ago, PlanoTim said:

I’ve also wondered if Carnival gets complaints at other ports that offer Cheers on day 1.  They charge full price on day 1, right?  But if you have a 2:30 PM port-arrival time you may not get to use Cheers till 3:00 PM or so.  Cheers starts at 6:00 AM every other day of the cruise.  So you are paying for the entire day on day 1 and not getting to use it till mid-afternoon.

Cheers for embarkation day would end at 6:00 AM the following morning. If you're on board by 3:00 PM you still have 15 hours. Obviously not as good a deal as boarding at 11:00 AM, which would give you 19 hours.

 

Of course in those ports debarkation morning would essentially be "free" aside from the sales tax and possibly limited menu, which allows you to claw back about 3 hours from the shorter embarkation day.

[PlanoTim]

9 minutes ago, cruisegus said:

 Belive me it is a PITA for Royal to do in Galveston, bar shut down for 10-15 minutes in some cases to change out bottle with Texas Tax Stamps.

 

It is interesting I was on a Royal ship on their last 2 Galveston sailing before heading with no passengers to Florida.  Next to the last sailing they ran out of some types of liquor, then On last sailing they just used up the rest of the Texas Tax Stamped liquor 

Carnival also shuts down their bars briefly once they leave Texas waters so they can put the taxed booze away and bring out the regular stock.

[StephPS79]

1 hour ago, PlanoTim said:

  Either that or go ask Royal Caribbean how that do it. 😋

 

Considering Royal Caribbean's drink package price is usually anywhere from $70 (on a good day) to $100 per day (who can say, because they use that super annoying dynamic pricing), I think it's easy to figure out how they do it.

[PlanoTim]

1 minute ago, StephPS79 said:

 

Considering Royal Caribbean's drink package price is usually anywhere from $70 (on a good day) to $100 per day (who can say, because they use that super annoying dynamic pricing), I think it's easy to figure out how they do it.

We cruise on Viking Ocean some and LOVE their drink package prices.  Carnival prices make me cringe.  $70 - $100 would make me weep. 😭

[tidecat]

3 hours ago, PlanoTim said:

We cruise on Viking Ocean some and LOVE their drink package prices.  Carnival prices make me cringe.  $70 - $100 would make me weep. 😭

How much more do you pay for a Viking Cruise, though?

[aborgman]

14 hours ago, StephPS79 said:

 

Considering Royal Caribbean's drink package price is usually anywhere from $70 (on a good day) to $100 per day (who can say, because they use that super annoying dynamic pricing), I think it's easy to figure out how they do it.

 

As far as I can tell (with service fees) -

 

RCL Drink package: $66-$124 per day

CCL Drink package: $70.75-$88.44 per day

 

[jimbo5544]

14 hours ago, PlanoTim said:

We cruise on Viking Ocean some and LOVE their drink package prices.  Carnival prices make me cringe.  $70 - $100 would make me weep. 😭

Whole different drinking mentality on Viking then Carnival

[Joebucks]

Just sailed out of Galveston on Royal recently. Package worked on day 1. They said they could only serve certain liquors that had been taxed out of Texas, or something to that effect. It was not the full menu. 

 

The argument against Carnival citing laws is a silly one. It absolutely is a law that disrupts their normal offering. Citing a law does not have to mean what you want it to be. 

[jsglow]

16 hours ago, PlanoTim said:

Carnival also shuts down their bars briefly once they leave Texas waters so they can put the taxed booze away and bring out the regular stock.

Absolutely correct. And the offerings inside Texas waters are somewhat limited. Carnival has made the decision not to deal w/ Cheers because of the legal requirements. Don't like it? Your problem, not their's.

[Butterbean1000]

There are ALWAYS unhappy passengers about something.

[StephPS79]

3 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

As far as I can tell (with service fees) -

 

RCL Drink package: $66-$124 per day

CCL Drink package: $70.75-$88.44 per day

 

 

Royal Caribbean drink packages are dynamic pricing.  Very few will be $66 dollars, maybe a few 5 day or less sailings on old ships.  Which is annoying enough in itself.  Who knows how much you'll be charged at any given time??  I don't.

 

Most are AT LEAST $90 (I'd say almost all 7+ day sailings are at least this much).  If you catch a "sale" you might get it for $72-$74 dollars per day, before gratuities.  

 

Currently, the drink package price on Icon is $115 per day before gratuities.  Again, you might catch a "sale" to purchase this at around $90-$100.

 

Most people will purchase their CCL drink package for $59.95 (6 days or more) or $69.95 (5 days or less) day, before gratuities.

 

 

Edited April 3 by StephPS79