Is this a new Gratuities policy?

[AnyMajorCruiseDude]

2 hours ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

Call it what you want, but let’s face it. CA being distributed to engine room crew isn’t exactly a tip either.  

And you have inside knowledge that the engine room crew receives a portion of the CA?  

[PescadoAmarillo]

19 minutes ago, AnyMajorCruiseDude said:

And you have inside knowledge that the engine room crew receives a portion of the CA?  

I was referencing @Me&Red’s post, which you must know since you replied to it.   But you can ask Scotty the next time you pay him a visit at home. In case you don’t remember what the crew contract said about CA. 

[AnyMajorCruiseDude]

33 minutes ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

I was referencing @Me&Red’s post, which you must know since you replied to it.   But you can ask Scotty the next time you pay him a visit at home. In case you don’t remember what the crew contract said about CA. 

Exactly my point.  I have known a couple of engine room/maintenance crew, and no one ever claimed receipt of any portion of the CA, while restaurant or hotel positions acknowledge participation in the program, and while they would all like to be paid more, they also recognize that they make good money on the ship, and choose the shipboard life to avail themselves and their families of the money they make.  But I am sure you know something I don’t.

[TRLD]

3 hours ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

Call it what you want, but let’s face it. CA being distributed to engine room crew isn’t exactly a tip either.  

Except CA is not distributed to the engine room crew. The CA pool is for eligible personnel on the hotel side only, not the ship side.

[AnyMajorCruiseDude]

1 minute ago, TRLD said:

Except CA is not distributed to the engine room crew. The CA pool is for eligible personnel on the hotel side only, not the ship side.

Exactly, thank you!

[LittleTinker]

On 7/2/2024 at 3:37 AM, Iamcruzin said:

And yet this is happening in their own backyards at local restaurants. The waiters tip out the bus boy and cook and the bartenders tip out the bar backs. 

We had this policy in our restaurant, and we found that the Waiters would give the bussers some of their tips, but a real minimum.
And bartenders did the same with the barback.

Everyone in the kitchen was on a higher rate of pay and shared GRATUITIES which are not the same as TIPS.

Grats are added onto the bill automatically if there are more than 8 diners or it goes over a certain price.
Grats are shared by KITCHEN STAFF and do NOT cover the waiter.

A tip is given to someone who gives great service. If they just do their job, then they dont get a tip.
Make the meal memorable....or go out of their way........then Tip as you see fit.

It isnt much different on a cuise ship.  
The company should never be involved in you tipping who has served you well.

Im not sure why Americans are tipping everyone left, right and centre.
Im not sure why Americans think they need to tip every worker in every restaurant.

The only way to force proper wages is if everyone STOPPED this out of control tipping.
 

[LittleTinker]

On 7/5/2024 at 9:33 PM, Me&Red said:

The problem with tipping only the staff members with whom we interact is that the rest of the staff, who also work very hard to make our cruises safe and enjoyable, benefit nothing. What about the laundry workers?  Cooks? Engine room? Maintenance?  By pooling the gratuities, everyone benefits. Cruise companies are registered outside of the US so they can pay low wages. If this outrages you, I suggest you either stop cruising or add to the daily gratuity for ALL workers.  We pay the daily gratuity and additionally tip the face-to-face waitstaff and stewards. If we can afford to take a cruise, we can afford to be generous with the low income workers who make the cruise possible. 

You do get that the crew are on different rates of pay to begin with?

Example......an engine room worker may get more to start with simply because he ISNT in a role that can benefit from tipping.

They arent all on the same pay scale.

And the Grats you pay in your cruise fare are NOT shared out equally between every single worker
 

[Me&Red]

9 hours ago, LittleTinker said:

You do get that the crew are on different rates of pay to begin with?

Example......an engine room worker may get more to start with simply because he ISNT in a role that can benefit from tipping.

They arent all on the same pay scale.

And the Grats you pay in your cruise fare are NOT shared out equally between every single worker
 

Well that makes sense, I never considered it that way. Of course the hotel staff is paid differently. Thanks for enlightening me. 

[Retired-N-Happy]

12 hours ago, LittleTinker said:

We had this policy in our restaurant, and we found that the Waiters would give the bussers some of their tips, but a real minimum.
And bartenders did the same with the barback.

Everyone in the kitchen was on a higher rate of pay and shared GRATUITIES which are not the same as TIPS.

Grats are added onto the bill automatically if there are more than 8 diners or it goes over a certain price.
Grats are shared by KITCHEN STAFF and do NOT cover the waiter.

A tip is given to someone who gives great service. If they just do their job, then they dont get a tip.
Make the meal memorable....or go out of their way........then Tip as you see fit.

It isnt much different on a cuise ship.  
The company should never be involved in you tipping who has served you well.

Im not sure why Americans are tipping everyone left, right and centre.
Im not sure why Americans think they need to tip every worker in every restaurant.

The only way to force proper wages is if everyone STOPPED this out of control tipping.
 

Don't know which country you're from, but it's obviously not the US.  In the US if a restaurant has a mandatory 20% added to the bill for a party of 8 or more, that's all that is needed to be tipped.  Some Americans may not tip 20% for a large party and that's the only reason it sometimes comes into play with certain establishments.  This goes to your server and he or she usually gives a small portion to the bussers.

 

Don't know where you get the idea that Americans tip everyone in a restaurant.  The only persons being tipped would be the server who gets you your food and the bartender if you are at the bar having a drink beforehand.

 

In the US, if a server just does their job, they are entitled to a tip from 15-20%.  That's the way it is.  Obviously you only tip for service over and above.

 

It's the same on a cruise ship.  We leave the CA alone and if we have the same server for the duration of our cruise each evening, and he has given us impeccable service, he gets extra from us.

[LittleTinker]

19 hours ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

Don't know which country you're from, but it's obviously not the US.  In the US if a restaurant has a mandatory 20% added to the bill for a party of 8 or more, that's all that is needed to be tipped.  Some Americans may not tip 20% for a large party and that's the only reason it sometimes comes into play with certain establishments.  This goes to your server and he or she usually gives a small portion to the bussers.

 

Don't know where you get the idea that Americans tip everyone in a restaurant.  The only persons being tipped would be the server who gets you your food and the bartender if you are at the bar having a drink beforehand.

 

In the US, if a server just does their job, they are entitled to a tip from 15-20%.  That's the way it is.  Obviously you only tip for service over and above.

 

It's the same on a cruise ship.  We leave the CA alone and if we have the same server for the duration of our cruise each evening, and he has given us impeccable service, he gets extra from us.

Im in England.

I was posting really in response to the posters saying "What about the deck workers? And Laundry workers?"
So I asked Im not sure why Americans want to tip everyone. They are generally on a higher pay scale.

As for America itself....no, I will not tip unless the service is exceptional. Thats the way it is.

It will not change until people stop this practice that is clearly getting out of hand.

[voljeep]

19 hours ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

In the US, if a server just does their job, they are entitled to a tip from 15-20%.  That's the way it is.  Obviously you only tip for service over and above.

maybe in your world, but not mine

[Catlover54]

1 hour ago, LittleTinker said:

Im in England.

I was posting really in response to the posters saying "What about the deck workers? And Laundry workers?"
So I asked Im not sure why Americans want to tip everyone. They are generally on a higher pay scale.

As for America itself....no, I will not tip unless the service is exceptional. Thats the way it is.

It will not change until people stop this practice that is clearly getting out of hand.

 

Are you saying that when you visit America (not on a cruise ship) you only tip if service is exceptional, and "that's the way it is"?  

Perhaps I misunderstood (given all the back and forth).

If I didn't misunderstand, i.e., you don't tip in America unless service is exceptional, does that include waiters?  If so, you cannot use the "they're on a higher pay scale" argument to support not tipping decent but unexceptional waiters.

 Other than in some high end  restaurants, waiters are generally  *not* on a high baseline wage pay scale in America. The custom and practice in the restaurant business here, understood by native owners, workers, and customers,  is that a good portion of waiters' income is expected to be earned through tips .  What that amount should be is up to debate.  For many years it used to be, by custom and practice and not be law or any entitlement, 15% in America,  has risen to 20%, and  in some places got totally out of hand during Covid due to the distorted market, where customers  were subtly encouraged to tip and tip high even for basic counter pickups.  Counter service workers in chains get paid at least a minimum hourly wage, and often more depending on unskilled worker supply in the area,  primarily because they are not expected to get 15-20%  tips for decent service, the way waiters do.

 

 Waiters in normal American restaurants typically have a lower hourly pay rate (with regional variation of course).  It provides incentive for them to give excellent service so they then get better tips.  But if they're running ragged due to understaffing and can only provide basic and decent but "unexceptional" service, depriving them of the customary  (but not required) 15-20%, is harsh.

 No one can *force* customers to tip unless it is made clear when they  sit down that tips (gratuities, if you will) are automatically added to the  bill.

My guess is that in places like Miami, or at some airports, a lot of venues have started adding on 20% or so mandatory tips to bills (like in Europe) even if there is not a large group,  because there are so many foreign visitors who do not understand the customary American tipping process.  That makes it more difficult for waiters to receive decent enough  pay to keep working.  

Generally, 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do', is a good rule of thumb.  Same for New York, or Miami.

For cruise ships, it's just not clear to many pax if one is in Rome or England or New York, and so regardless what the cruise ship says is recommended, "Romans" still behave like Romans. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 9 by Catlover54
Typo

[Retired-N-Happy]

1 hour ago, LittleTinker said:

As for America itself....no, I will not tip unless the service is exceptional. Thats the way it is.

Haven't you ever heard of the expression...when in Rome?

 

So, if you're at a sit down restaurant in America and the bill comes in at $100.00 and the service is just OK, you'll leave nothing even though protocol states you should leave 15-20?  SMH

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, LittleTinker said:

Im in England.

I was posting really in response to the posters saying "What about the deck workers? And Laundry workers?"
So I asked Im not sure why Americans want to tip everyone. They are generally on a higher pay scale.

As for America itself....no, I will not tip unless the service is exceptional. Thats the way it is.

It will not change until people stop this practice that is clearly getting out of hand.

I follow the practice in whatever location I am in.

 

If I am dining in a restaurant where I know tipping is the norm and forms the basis for a large part of the workers income I tip. I do so because that is the system in which I decided to purchase the product or service.

 

If one does not wish to participate in the cultural practice for whatever country they are in, then do not be a customer of that venue. Pretty simple.

[Retired-N-Happy]

1 hour ago, voljeep said:

maybe in your world, but not mine

Obviously "altered state" is across the pond or down under.  Most level headed Americans know that servers get paid less than minimum wage and that the tips they get make up for it and is the bulk of their compensation.  

 

Exactly the same way it is on cruise ships.  If you don't have a package, you pull your CA, so why should I expect anything different when it comes to normal tipping in an American restaurant 

[c-boy]

3 hours ago, LittleTinker said:

Im in England.

I was posting really in response to the posters saying "What about the deck workers? And Laundry workers?"
So I asked Im not sure why Americans want to tip everyone. They are generally on a higher pay scale.

As for America itself....no, I will not tip unless the service is exceptional. Thats the way it is.

It will not change until people stop this practice that is clearly getting out of hand.

we/Americans don't tip "everyone" . Mainly those in the food & beverage service industry, not the lawn care service, checkout clerks or my ex wife/mayor. 

Edited July 9 by c-boy

[dog]

13 minutes ago, c-boy said:

we/Americans don't tip "everyone" . Mainly those in the food & beverage service industry, not the lawn care service, checkout clerks or my ex wife/mayor. 

Oh, wait a minute- I do tip my lawn care/ snow care employee- He is

one of the most important people I tip 

 

This is a never- ending topic that is so judgemental.

 

 

[LittleTinker]

2 hours ago, Catlover54 said:

 

Are you saying that when you visit America (not on a cruise ship) you only tip if service is exceptional, and "that's the way it is"?  

Perhaps I misunderstood (given all the back and forth).

If I didn't misunderstand, i.e., you don't tip in America unless service is exceptional, does that include waiters?  If so, you cannot use the "they're on a higher pay scale" argument to support not tipping decent but unexceptional waiters.

 Other than in some high end  restaurants, waiters are generally  *not* on a high baseline wage pay scale in America. The custom and practice in the restaurant business here, understood by native owners, workers, and customers,  is that a good portion of waiters' income is expected to be earned through tips .  What that amount should be is up to debate.  For many years it used to be, by custom and practice and not be law or any entitlement, 15% in America,  has risen to 20%, and  in some places got totally out of hand during Covid due to the distorted market, where customers  were subtly encouraged to tip and tip high even for basic counter pickups.  Counter service workers in chains get paid at least a minimum hourly wage, and often more depending on unskilled worker supply in the area,  primarily because they are not expected to get 15-20%  tips for decent service, the way waiters do.

 

 Waiters in normal American restaurants typically have a lower hourly pay rate (with regional variation of course).  It provides incentive for them to give excellent service so they then get better tips.  But if they're running ragged due to understaffing and can only provide basic and decent but "unexceptional" service, depriving them of the customary  (but not required) 15-20%, is harsh.

 No one can *force* customers to tip unless it is made clear when they  sit down that tips (gratuities, if you will) are automatically added to the  bill.

My guess is that in places like Miami, or at some airports, a lot of venues have started adding on 20% or so mandatory tips to bills (like in Europe) even if there is not a large group,  because there are so many foreign visitors who do not understand the customary American tipping process.  That makes it more difficult for waiters to receive decent enough  pay to keep working.  

Generally, 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do', is a good rule of thumb.  Same for New York, or Miami.

For cruise ships, it's just not clear to many pax if one is in Rome or England or New York, and so regardless what the cruise ship says is recommended, "Romans" still behave like Romans. 

 

 

 

 

 

I actually tip generously for those who have made my meal enjoyable,
It doesnt even have to be exceptional most of the time.....just nice.

However, too many times in America, I will go to a restaurant and see a waitress just plonk stuff on the table, barely smiling and really not doing anything other than the bare minimum.

No tip for that. 

[JimmyVWine]

53 minutes ago, LittleTinker said:

However, too many times in America, I will go to a restaurant and see a waitress just plonk stuff on the table, barely smiling and really not doing anything other than the bare minimum.

No tip for that. 

If you return to that establishment, the server might do something worse than just plonking down stuff on the table.  And she might actually smile the next time, but not for reasons that you would be happy about.  

[Retired-N-Happy]

1 hour ago, LittleTinker said:

However, too many times in America, I will go to a restaurant and see a waitress just plonk stuff on the table, barely smiling and really not doing anything other than the bare minimum.

No tip for that. 

And of course in England every server you have ever had has had the perfect day, always smiling so they can't wait for you to come into their station so they can wait on you and have you besto on them some of your hard earned money.

[LittleTinker]

1 hour ago, JimmyVWine said:

If you return to that establishment, the server might do something worse than just plonking down stuff on the table.  And she might actually smile the next time, but not for reasons that you would be happy about.  

I assure you, if I were to go to a place with such surly servers, I wouldnt be visiting again.

[LittleTinker]

24 minutes ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

And of course in England every server you have ever had has had the perfect day, always smiling so they can't wait for you to come into their station so they can wait on you and have you besto on them some of your hard earned money.

No....not at all.
Many miserable servers here too....but tipping isnt expected for nothing here.
 

[SCX22]

5 hours ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

Obviously "altered state" is across the pond or down under.  Most level headed Americans know that servers get paid less than minimum wage and that the tips they get make up for it and is the bulk of their compensation.  

 

6 hours ago, LittleTinker said:

As for America itself....no, I will not tip unless the service is exceptional. Thats the way it is.

 

5 hours ago, Catlover54 said:

Other than in some high end  restaurants, waiters are generally  *not* on a high baseline wage pay scale in America. The custom and practice in the restaurant business here, understood by native owners, workers, and customers,  is that a good portion of waiters' income is expected to be earned through tips .

 

The State of California is an exception.  Employers cannot use tips to satisfy hourly minimum wage requirements.  Waiters, for example, have to be paid the hourly minimum wage (at this time is $16.00 at the State level, but can be more depending on location; San Francisco's minimum wage is $18.67).  Any tips are really tips in excess of regular wages.

 

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=LAB&sectionNum=351.

[Retired-N-Happy]

1 hour ago, LittleTinker said:

No....not at all.
Many miserable servers here too....but tipping isnt expected for nothing here.
 

I fully understand.  It's how your culture is.  But it's 100% wrong to use your own culture's policy when you're vacationing in an area of the world whose tipping culture is different.

 

I realize that you have alligator arms when you receive blah service in the states, but that blah service deserves at the very minimum a 10% tip instead of the 0% you leave.

[LittleTinker]

10 minutes ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

I fully understand.  It's how your culture is.  But it's 100% wrong to use your own culture's policy when you're vacationing in an area of the world whose tipping culture is different.

 

I realize that you have alligator arms when you receive blah service in the states, but that blah service deserves at the very minimum a 10% tip instead of the 0% you leave.

 

Sorry to disagree but 'blah' service gets $0

 

Its not really anything to do with culture.

Its to do with people here giving a tip as it should be given....for great service.

 

The clue is in the word 'tip'. It's not named 'make up my wages fee'.