Late night Pizza on the Paradise...

[Old Fart Cruisers]

On 7/6/2024 at 1:06 PM, Haljo1935 said:

Any chance Nick (the guy who filmed the "show") is part of their group or does he just have incredible timing?

 

14 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

That would be my guess. Perhaps a stunt to rack up $$$ for the gang on YouTube.

 

 If you click on his name on the site hosting the video, he doesn't seem to have any other stuff like this posted.  Just the three videos of this incident.  Other than that, just some music play lists, which leads me to think that maybe he was actually just there to get a slice of pizza.  That being said, he did get a bit carried away with his narration of the situation, and seemed to be instigating it.  

[ngrund]

2 hours ago, ledges1 said:

If a cruise line bans someone for life, is this info shared with other cruise lines? If it was, it would carry more weight.

If I was in the corporate offices of the other cruise lines, I would be at least be asking for some of these names, so then if they did try to book with my line we would at least be able to consider a ban.

 

Also, clearly Carnival's $500 fine needs to be increased.

[missholly24]

On 7/4/2024 at 3:17 AM, Destiny0315 said:

https://nypost.com/2024/07/03/us-news/watch-fists-fly-during-all-out-brawl-between-female-passengers-on-carnival-cruise-got-out-of-hand-very-very-quickly/

One more reason I stay off small cheap cruises. Nothing good happens on $179 vacations. 🤪

[jlawrence01]

20 hours ago, ngrund said:

If I was in the corporate offices of the other cruise lines, I would be at least be asking for some of these names, so then if they did try to book with my line we would at least be able to consider a ban.

 

Also, clearly Carnival's $500 fine needs to be increased.

 

Carnival Cruise Lines and their affiliated cruise lines have the right to ban anyone off of their ships for any reason at any time as long as they do not ban people for a prohibited reason like race, religion, etc.

 

However, if they start to contact other lines, they would open themselves up to a variety of potential websites.  Do realize that these people have not been convicted of any crime at this point.  

 

Some might argue that Nevada casinos all contribute data of known gambling cheats and fraudster.  However, that list was developed by the Nevada Gaming Commission and the people listed are convicted felons.

[UPNYGuy]

This is the reason why I am very selective about

 

1) not going on cruises under a week,. 
 

2) not going on cruises during typical college or school vacation times unless I do not have a choice (Alaska)

 

3) both of these together. A short cruise during a school break is absolutely hell  

Not to mention, short cruises are typically cheaper and tend to bring out more price sensitive people who sometimes do not go on vacation that often and tend to over indulge.
 

My wife and I will avoid week-long cruises that are priced absurdly low for this exact reason. They tend to turn into a weeklong booze fest with people that book a cheap cruise just to get the beverage package and get hammered. 

 

Edit:

DW and I have seen boorish, undesirable behavior on Holland America and NCL, so this is not exclusive to carnival by any stretch of the imagination.

Edited July 8 by UPNYGuy

[Mike45LC]

2 hours ago, UPNYGuy said:

Edit:

DW and I have seen boorish, undesirable behavior on Holland America and NCL, so this is not exclusive to carnival by any stretch of the imagination.

According to a blog by a maritime attorney whose name I will not mention, the vast majority of these incidents occur on Carnival.  14 incidents on Carnival in 2023.

 

I have not witnessed any of these brawls on any ship, but I am either in the casino or in bed at 3:00 a.m., not in a bar, party venue or food court.  If any brawl developed, I like to think I would fade away instead of videoing and encouraging.

 

 

[UPNYGuy]

19 minutes ago, Mike45LC said:

According to a blog by a maritime attorney whose name I will not mention, the vast majority of these incidents occur on Carnival.  14 incidents on Carnival in 2023.

 

I have not witnessed any of these brawls on any ship, but I am either in the casino or in bed at 3:00 a.m., not in a bar, party venue or food court.  If any brawl developed, I like to think I would fade away instead of videoing and encouraging.

 

 

I have not seen brawls either, but my wife has seen people having sex in the thalassotherapy pool several years ago  on the Eurodam on the metal rail stairs. She reported it, and the thermal suite had to be closed and sanitized. And we were on Norwegian Getaway when two school groups ran amock all over the ship.  We haven’t seen people having intercourse in public on Carnival, but we CAN say we have on HAL… go figure. 

Edited July 9 by UPNYGuy

[tidecat]

26 minutes ago, Mike45LC said:

According to a blog by a maritime attorney whose name I will not mention, the vast majority of these incidents occur on Carnival.  14 incidents on Carnival in 2023.

Carnival has more ships sailing from US ports than any other cruise line - essentially all but one-and-a-half (Splendor and Luminosa outside of the Alaska season) of Carnival's ships sail from the US.

 

Royal Caribbean has more ships, but more of those are based outside the US. 

[Destiny0315]

1 hour ago, UPNYGuy said:

I have not seen brawls either, but my wife has seen people having sex in the thalassotherapy pool several years ago  on the Eurodam on the metal rail stairs. She reported it, and the thermal suite had to be closed and sanitized. And we were on Norwegian Getaway when two school groups ran amock all over the ship.  We haven’t seen people having intercourse in public on Carnival, but we CAN say we have on HAL… go figure. 

Are you sure this wasn't just part of HAL's Savor The Journey promotion. 😉

Edited July 9 by Destiny0315

[tonit964]

Add to that, they can cram four people in a cabin and then it becomes cheaper to go on the cruise for however many days than to stay at home. 

[staceyglow]

13 hours ago, Mike45LC said:

According to a blog by a maritime attorney whose name I will not mention, the vast majority of these incidents occur on Carnival.  14 incidents on Carnival in 2023.

 

 

 

 

So, 14 incidents out of the over 1,500 cruises Carnival had in 2023.

 

In other words, the chances of you being on a 2023 Carnival cruise with an "incident' was under 1 percent. And I am going out on a limb and saw that if you were in your cabin by 2 am, your chances of actually witnessing an "incident" approaches zero. 

 

Sounds to me that one is more likely to witness a drunken brawl at a randomly chosen land-based bar than on a Carnival cruise ship. 

 

 

[aborgman]

16 hours ago, tidecat said:

Carnival has more ships sailing from US ports than any other cruise line - essentially all but one-and-a-half (Splendor and Luminosa outside of the Alaska season) of Carnival's ships sail from the US.

 

Royal Caribbean has more ships, but more of those are based outside the US. 

 

Yes, but Carnival has outsized number of incidents even given that.

 

Carnival does about 2x the passengers from the USA as RCI.

 

Assaults With Serious Bodily Injury(2023) -

Carnival: 14

RCI: 1

 

Sexual Assault:

Carnival: 18

RCI: 6

 

 

[BlerkOne]

 

with twice the passengers?

 

How many passengers do Disney and MSC carry?

 

 

The cruise lines which saw the most crimes committed on their vessels in 2023 include:

• Carnival Cruise Line: 51 incidents
• Royal Caribbean Cruise Line: 27 incidents
• Disney Cruise Line: 20 incidents
• MSC Cruise Lines: 10 incidents

[aborgman]

12 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

with twice the passengers?

 

How many passengers do Disney and MSC carry?

 

 

The cruise lines which saw the most crimes committed on their vessels in 2023 include:

• Carnival Cruise Line: 51 incidents
• Royal Caribbean Cruise Line: 27 incidents
• Disney Cruise Line: 20 incidents
• MSC Cruise Lines: 10 incidents

 

Yes, about twice the passengers overall:

 

CCL: 12,921,000

RCI: 7,740,900

Norwegian: 2,819,300

MSC: 2,553,400

Disney: 848,000

 

Disney has really amazing per person revenue numbers. Carnival did about $6 billion in revenue on over 6 million passengers. Disney did almost $3 billion in revenue on well less than 1 million.

 

About $3,200 per passenger vs. $1024 per passenger.

 

 

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Yes, about twice the passengers overall:

 

CCL: 12,921,000

RCI: 7,740,900

Norwegian: 2,819,300

MSC: 2,553,400

Disney: 848,000

 

Disney has really amazing per person revenue numbers. Carnival did about $6 billion in revenue on over 6 million passengers. Disney did almost $3 billion in revenue on well less than 1 million.

 

About $3,200 per passenger vs. $1024 per passenger.

 

 

Disney sure looks like they must be infested with criminals.

[Mike45LC]

So Disney has one-fifteenth the number of passengers, but 20% the amount of crime?  Blerk, thanks for the data!

[aborgman]

5 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

with twice the passengers?

 

How many passengers do Disney and MSC carry?

 

 

The cruise lines which saw the most crimes committed on their vessels in 2023 include:

• Carnival Cruise Line: 51 incidents
• Royal Caribbean Cruise Line: 27 incidents
• Disney Cruise Line: 20 incidents
• MSC Cruise Lines: 10 incidents

 

Actual numbers from DOJ reports:

 

Carnival: 68

RCL: 38

DIS: 21

 

[LobsterStalker]

6 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

with twice the passengers?

 

How many passengers do Disney and MSC carry?

 

 

The cruise lines which saw the most crimes committed on their vessels in 2023 include:

• Carnival Cruise Line: 51 incidents
• Royal Caribbean Cruise Line: 27 incidents
• Disney Cruise Line: 20 incidents
• MSC Cruise Lines: 10 incidents

 

6 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Yes, about twice the passengers overall:

 

CCL: 12,921,000

RCI: 7,740,900

Norwegian: 2,819,300

MSC: 2,553,400

Disney: 848,000

 

Disney has really amazing per person revenue numbers. Carnival did about $6 billion in revenue on over 6 million passengers. Disney did almost $3 billion in revenue on well less than 1 million.

 

About $3,200 per passenger vs. $1024 per passenger.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, aborgman said:

 

Actual numbers from DOJ reports:

 

Carnival: 68

RCL: 38

DIS: 21

 

Not sure I believe ANY of these numbers are accurate , as it is clear someone is wrong , however if they are even close it would seem that on a per passenger basis , incidents on CCL and RCL are very similar .

...I bet that really Irks the Carnival haters on this board !

 

Cheers

[BlerkOne]

Just now, LobsterStalker said:

 

 

Not sure I believe ANY of these numbers are accurate , as it is clear someone is wrong , however if they are even close it would seem that on a per passenger basis , incidents on CCL and RCL are very similar .

...I bet that really Irks the Carnival haters on this board !

 

Cheers

Commonly referred to as lies, damn lies, and statistics. Meaningless.Too much context is missing. Besides, much crime goes unreported, just like on land.

 

 

[aborgman]

8 hours ago, LobsterStalker said:

 

 

Not sure I believe ANY of these numbers are accurate , as it is clear someone is wrong , however if they are even close it would seem that on a per passenger basis , incidents on CCL and RCL are very similar .

...I bet that really Irks the Carnival haters on this board !

 

Cheers

 

It'll depend on your definition of accuracy.

 

There are always crimes that go unreported, and cruise lines don't really have exact passenger counts either.

 

 

...but in a general sense they are accurate - because the methodology is the same across all lines, they are largely accurate in terms of trends and relative numbers.

 

You can see quarterly incident reports dating back to 2010 here:

 

https://www.transportation.gov/mission/safety/cruise-line-incident-reports

[aborgman]

8 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Commonly referred to as lies, damn lies, and statistics. Meaningless.Too much context is missing. Besides, much crime goes unreported, just like on land.

 

 

 

Lies, damn lies, and statistics... Comes from people who can be fooled by bad statistics - in other words, people who don't understand them enough to see the manipulation.

 

It's why people play the lottery, gamble, and why we need way more statistics/probability education starting in elementary school.

[dbrown84]

On 7/4/2024 at 5:53 PM, ColeThornton said:

 

I've had lots of great things happen after 3 a.m.     😉

Ain't nothing like last call 😆

[BlerkOne]

4 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Lies, damn lies, and statistics... Comes from people who can be fooled by bad statistics - in other words, people who don't understand them enough to see the manipulation.

 

It's why people play the lottery, gamble, and why we need way more statistics/probability education starting in elementary school.

People who play the lottery and gamble ignore good statistics, yet some still win.

 

If you are in bed before 2am, you aren't going to see a fight on Lido that happens an hour later.

Edited July 10 by BlerkOne

[aborgman]

42 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

People who play the lottery and gamble ignore good statistics, yet some still win.

 

 

Nah... the great, great majority really don't understand the probabilities to ignore them.

 

In numerous studies - about 80% of people think a tail is more likely than a head after a sequence of five heads. Literally 80% believe in the "Gambler's Fallacy" and don't understand independent trials.

[BlerkOne]

47 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Nah... the great, great majority really don't understand the probabilities to ignore them.

 

In numerous studies - about 80% of people think a tail is more likely than a head after a sequence of five heads. Literally 80% believe in the "Gambler's Fallacy" and don't understand independent trials.

Some people actually believe Google is a truth engine.