When do you arrive?

[1of4]

We always fly in 2-3 days early. I guess the winter weather delay potential never really leaves my mind even in summer. Our next cruise is on the Rhône next June. I need to fly direct due to a medical condition which we can’t do from YYZ. So we will fly somewhere (Vienna, London, Geneva) and stay a few days and then fly directly into Lyon. 
 

My question is: is there a need to stay the night before in Lyon or is it relatively risk free to fly within the EU on the day of the embarkation?  

[JordanF]

Well, if you want to really think of things that can go wrong, you never know when there will be some sort of strike in France. So if you are going through the trouble to get there early just in case, why not get to Lyon?

[Host Jazzbeau]

Can you fly direct to CDG?  Then you can take the high-speed train from Paris to Lyon.  The river ships dock near the train station.

[Island2Dweller]

1 hour ago, 1of4 said:

So we will fly somewhere (Vienna, London, Geneva) and stay a few days and then fly directly into Lyon

It's less than a hundred miles from Geneva to Lyon.  No flights, but lots of trains

[1of4]

2 hours ago, JordanF said:

Well, if you want to really think of things that can go wrong, you never know when there will be some sort of strike in France. So if you are going through the trouble to get there early just in case, why not get to Lyon?

It’s not really thinking of things that can go wrong, but incorporating extra time, in this case, for jet lag. 

[1of4]

1 hour ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Can you fly direct to CDG?  Then you can take the high-speed train from Paris to Lyon.  The river ships dock near the train station.

Yes we can. But because of my medical condition I am not supposed to go on trains (the side to side swaying sets off my vestibular issues/vertigo). But I have never been on a high speed train. Do they feel different than regular trains?

[Host Jazzbeau]

1 hour ago, 1of4 said:

Yes we can. But because of my medical condition I am not supposed to go on trains (the side to side swaying sets off my vestibular issues/vertigo). But I have never been on a high speed train. Do they feel different than regular trains?

I'll have to leave the question for someone who really knows the answer.  My impression is that they sway less, but since I don't have that medical issue I can't say how it would feel for you.

[pontac]

13 hours ago, 1of4 said:

 

My question is: is there a need to stay the night before in Lyon or is it relatively risk free to fly within the EU on the day of the embarkation?  

 

I live in the UK. All the cruises I've taken bar one the cruise line booked flights on day of departure. 

Although on our first Rhone cruise we got them to change it to day before as the flight they selected left too early for us. We stayed overnight at Lyon airport hotel and when we saw incoming flight next morning from our room, checked out, crossed road to arrivals and saw the cruise line reps meeting passengers joined them to get coach to boat. 

 

[CDNPolar]

10 hours ago, 1of4 said:

Yes we can. But because of my medical condition I am not supposed to go on trains (the side to side swaying sets off my vestibular issues/vertigo). But I have never been on a high speed train. Do they feel different than regular trains?

 

9 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I'll have to leave the question for someone who really knows the answer.  My impression is that they sway less, but since I don't have that medical issue I can't say how it would feel for you.

 

In my limited experience with high speed trains, they certainly sway less, but there may still be motion.  I am saying that theoretically the sway must be and would have to be less or at the speeds they are travelling they would fly off the tracks....

 

Here is what I have found online which backs up my thoughts.

 

High-speed trains are engineered to minimize sway, offering a more stable and comfortable ride compared to conventional trains. This is achieved through advanced suspension systems, precise track design, aerodynamic structures, and continuous monitoring and maintenance. The reduced side-to-side motion not only enhances passenger comfort but also improves overall safety and performance at high speeds.

 

[1of4]

6 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

….

 

Here is what I have found online which backs up my thoughts.

 

High-speed trains are engineered to minimize sway, offering a more stable and comfortable ride compared to conventional trains. This is achieved through advanced suspension systems, precise track design, aerodynamic structures, and continuous monitoring and maintenance. The reduced side-to-side motion not only enhances passenger comfort but also improves overall safety and performance at high speeds.

 

Thank you so much for posting this. I haven’t found anything this specific in my searches but, then again, I may be putting in too general searches. 
 

I did look into the Geneva option as it is only just over 100 km from Lyon but the train takes over 3 hours. So that’s not an option. 

Edited July 5 by 1of4

[CPT Trips]

Have you considered a direct flight to Paris and then TGV to Lyon. I think there is a train station at CDG. 

Edited July 5 by CPT Trips

[Host Jazzbeau]

7 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

Have you considered a direct flight to Paris and then TGV to Lyon. I think there is a train station at CDG. 

Post #3

[CPT Trips]

9 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Post #3

🤦🏻‍♂️

[1of4]

On 7/5/2024 at 3:50 PM, CPT Trips said:

Have you considered a direct flight to Paris and then TGV to Lyon. I think there is a train station at CDG. 

It’s the train I’m trying to figure out if I can tolerate. I need 3-4 days to recover from an overseas flight before embarking because of my medical condition. We usually fly direct into the port city but we can’t fly into Lyon from Toronto. 

[CDNPolar]

14 hours ago, 1of4 said:

It’s the train I’m trying to figure out if I can tolerate. I need 3-4 days to recover from an overseas flight before embarking because of my medical condition. We usually fly direct into the port city but we can’t fly into Lyon from Toronto. 

Here is a more detailed article about high speed trains.  I am not trying to convince you to take the train, but I understand the dilemma that you have and hope you find a solution.

 

High-speed trains are designed to minimize sway or lateral motion, ensuring a smoother and more comfortable ride for passengers. Several factors contribute to the reduced side-to-side sway in high-speed trains compared to conventional trains:

 

Advanced Suspension Systems

• Active Suspension: High-speed trains often use active suspension systems that adjust in real-time to changes in track conditions, reducing lateral sway.
• Damping Mechanisms: They incorporate sophisticated damping mechanisms that absorb and counteract vibrations and swaying motions.
• Comparison: Conventional trains typically have simpler suspension systems that may not adjust as dynamically, leading to more noticeable sway.

 

 

Track Design and Quality

• Dedicated Tracks: High-speed trains often run on dedicated tracks designed specifically for high-speed travel, which are maintained to high standards to minimize imperfections.
• Banked Curves: Tracks for high-speed trains are often banked in curves (canting), reducing the lateral forces that cause sway.
• Smoothness: The smoother and more precise track alignment helps in reducing the lateral motion experienced by the train.

 

Train Stability and Aerodynamics

• Low Center of Gravity: High-speed trains are designed with a low center of gravity, enhancing stability and reducing the likelihood of swaying.
• Aerodynamic Design: The streamlined and aerodynamic design of high-speed trains reduces the impact of wind forces, which can contribute to sway.
• Rigid Body Structure: The rigid body structure of high-speed trains helps maintain stability and reduce oscillations.

 

Track and Train Interaction

• Optimized Bogie Design: The bogies (wheel assemblies) on high-speed trains are designed to maintain better contact with the track, reducing lateral movement.
• Tight Tolerances: High-speed trains and their tracks are built to tighter tolerances, meaning the interaction between wheels and rails is more controlled, minimizing sway.
• Continuous Welded Rails: Tracks for high-speed trains are often continuously welded, reducing the number of joints that can cause lateral motion.

 

Advanced Technology and Engineering

• Tilt Technology: Some high-speed trains, like the Japanese Shinkansen, use tilting technology to counteract lateral forces in curves, reducing the need for sway.
• Sensors and Feedback Systems: Modern high-speed trains are equipped with sensors and feedback systems that continuously monitor and adjust to track conditions, reducing sway.
• Precision Engineering: The precision engineering of high-speed train components contributes to less lateral play and more stable travel.

6. Maintenance and Upkeep

• Regular Maintenance: High-speed rail networks are subject to rigorous maintenance schedules, ensuring tracks and trains are kept in optimal condition to minimize sway.
• Track Monitoring: Advanced monitoring systems are used to detect and rectify any track irregularities that could lead to increased sway.

 

Examples of High-Speed Trains

• Shinkansen (Japan): Known for its smooth and stable ride, thanks to advanced suspension systems and precision track design.
• TGV (France): Features sophisticated damping systems and aerodynamic designs that minimize sway.
• ICE (Germany): Utilizes active suspension and tilt technology to provide a smooth and stable ride.

 

Comparison with Conventional Trains

• Less Advanced Suspension: Conventional trains often have less advanced suspension systems, leading to more noticeable lateral motion.
• Track Quality: Conventional train tracks may not be maintained to the same standards as high-speed tracks, leading to increased sway due to track imperfections.
• Higher Center of Gravity: Conventional trains may have a higher center of gravity, contributing to greater sway, especially on curves or uneven tracks.

 

Conclusion

High-speed trains are engineered to minimize sway, offering a more stable and comfortable ride compared to conventional trains. This is achieved through advanced suspension systems, precise track design, aerodynamic structures, and continuous monitoring and maintenance. The reduced side-to-side motion not only enhances passenger comfort but also improves overall safety and performance at high speeds.

[CDNPolar]

My worry with a high speed train - and this is from my own experience - is that looking out the windows at the speed you are travelling past buildings and landscape could in itself trigger vertigo?  

 

I know with ocean cruising, and especially after travelling to Antarctica, that looking at the horizon is key for me to not get seasick, but with the high speed train, I would think it difficult to focus on any object in the landscape for the same effect.

 

 

[Canal archive]

One of my husbands things is trains so okay I go along with this and have coped with and enjoyed trains all over the world BUT for some reason the Blue Train in South Africa caused me some significant movement challenges. (It was an only just after apartheid.) Although I’d do them all again wonderful trips.

[gnome12]

3 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

My worry with a high speed train - and this is from my own experience - is that looking out the windows at the speed you are travelling past buildings and landscape could in itself trigger vertigo?  

 

I know with ocean cruising, and especially after travelling to Antarctica, that looking at the horizon is key for me to not get seasick, but with the high speed train, I would think it difficult to focus on any object in the landscape for the same effect.

 

 

I have found that sitting backwards can help. Instead of things zooming by your head, they recede into the distance. It doesn’t work for me all the time, but it has been helpful. 

[1of4]

3 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

My worry with a high speed train - and this is from my own experience - is that looking out the windows at the speed you are travelling past buildings and landscape could in itself trigger vertigo?  

 

I know with ocean cruising, and especially after travelling to Antarctica, that looking at the horizon is key for me to not get seasick, but with the high speed train, I would think it difficult to focus on any object in the landscape for the same effect.

 

 

I really do appreciate all your information. I had to give up ocean cruising in 2015 when I fell ill very suddenly with what turned out to be this vestibular condition. I think we are going to try the train. The other no-go is propeller planes and I’m afraid any short flight may be on one. So no train window seats for me!  I’ll either focus on the floor or try bringing so hand sewing to keep me occupied. 

[Top Gear]

Another option could be Montreal, AC has direct flights to Lyon &Nice.

[1of4]

4 hours ago, Top Gear said:

Another option could be Montreal, AC has direct flights to Lyon &Nice.

Amazing. Thanks. I’ll look into this route. 

[Daisi]

We took the train to Montreal in Sept. for our river cruise...there is quite a difference from the European ones and the VIA. We found the ones in the Netherlands and Germany/France to be very smooth, and were surprised at how you really felt the VIA train. We took the "milk run" from Basel to Amsterdam along the Rhine, and also while in the Netherlands, took a train up to Enkhuizen. 

[CDNPolar]

14 hours ago, Daisi said:

We took the train to Montreal in Sept. for our river cruise...there is quite a difference from the European ones and the VIA. We found the ones in the Netherlands and Germany/France to be very smooth, and were surprised at how you really felt the VIA train. We took the "milk run" from Basel to Amsterdam along the Rhine, and also while in the Netherlands, took a train up to Enkhuizen. 

 

VIA shakes you all over the place.  Not anywhere near the European train experience.

[notamermaid]

I do not know what VIA is but it sounds like the greater London suburban trains I took over 20 years ago... ICE is very good, no swaying as far as I can tell, except when entering an area with many points, like Cologne main station, and even that is bearable. TGV is according to hearsay even better. Very smooth, the acceleration to the enormous speed can be felt, like in a fast car. What can happen is that trains move with the curve but that is again smooth and the dedicated high speed tracks tend to have few narrow curves. But even the standard carriages on the main lines are usually so modern that I would not call it a problem. But that only you can assess. I find flying and being on ocean waters (which I can only do with medication) far worse than any train I have been on.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[1of4]

9 hours ago, notamermaid said:

I do not know what VIA is but it sounds like the greater London suburban trains I took over 20 years ago... ICE is very good, no swaying as far as I can tell, except when entering an area with many points, like Cologne main station, and even that is bearable. TGV is according to hearsay even better. Very smooth, the acceleration to the enormous speed can be felt, like in a fast car. What can happen is that trains move with the curve but that is again smooth and the dedicated high speed tracks tend to have few narrow curves. But even the standard carriages on the main lines are usually so modern that I would not call it a problem. But that only you can assess. I find flying and being on ocean waters (which I can only do with medication) far worse than any train I have been on.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

VIA is Canada’s national passenger train corporation. It’s my experience of train trips between cities. I have never been on a high speed train…not even a subway since mid 2015. But the information on this thread has really provided a lot of confidence that this is the way to go next June. I really appreciate everyone for providing me with this information.