Two things I've never experienced before!

[cruzegirl]

Two things just happened on my flight and my friends flights coming out to me and then going on to Hawaii on our vacation. It really surprised me. Wondering if this is common.

First, my friends flew Continental from Newark to LAX. A direct flight. They no sooner get in the air than they are notified that they will be stopping in Colorado for fuel. What? Newark doesn't have fuel to have fueled before take off? I think it's ridiculous and there's more to it than meets the eye.

Second, when checking in for our return flight on the day off, my itinerary said I was in 35A as I chose it in Feb. when the flights were booked with my friends. Two of us in 1 row and 1 in the next row. However, when I printed my boarding pass, I was changed (without consultation) to 14A. I have never had my seat changed in over 30 years of flying when I've chosen my seat ahead of time like that. They used a lame excuse of oh, well, you hadn't checked in yet and it's normal because they changed the plane. Well, I've had planes changed before and that's never happened. A little detective work revealed, as my friend was still in her original 35C seat, that a couple wanted to be together. She had been in 35B and wanted her husband in the other one. So not right. How does their rights rule over mine? Very annoying. This was on AA. And was in Maui, Hawaii. Just never experienced this before.

[Globaliser]

Wondering if this is common.

Yes, both of these events are common. Fly enough, and you'll see them over and over again.

 

I'm sure you're absolutely right to describe these events as "ridiculous" and "lame". It's such a pity that none of the airlines benefits from your airline management expertise, because I'm sure that they'd all run like clockwork with no hitches if they had the advantage of you and your wisdom in charge.

 

I'm sure they'd particularly like your rule that couples who've been separated, because the airline chooses to pre-allocate all their seats in advance on a first-come first-served basis, must remain separated.

[kelmac]

Two things just happened on my flight and my friends flights coming out to me and then going on to Hawaii on our vacation. It really surprised me. Wondering if this is common.

First, my friends flew Continental from Newark to LAX. A direct flight. They no sooner get in the air than they are notified that they will be stopping in Colorado for fuel. What? Newark doesn't have fuel to have fueled before take off? I think it's ridiculous and there's more to it than meets the eye.

Second, when checking in for our return flight on the day off, my itinerary said I was in 35A as I chose it in Feb. when the flights were booked with my friends. Two of us in 1 row and 1 in the next row. However, when I printed my boarding pass, I was changed (without consultation) to 14A. I have never had my seat changed in over 30 years of flying when I've chosen my seat ahead of time like that. They used a lame excuse of oh, well, you hadn't checked in yet and it's normal because they changed the plane. Well, I've had planes changed before and that's never happened. A little detective work revealed, as my friend was still in her original 35C seat, that a couple wanted to be together. She had been in 35B and wanted her husband in the other one. So not right. How does their rights rule over mine? Very annoying. This was on AA. And was in Maui, Hawaii. Just never experienced this before.

 

Debbie,

 

Sounds like the head-wind speed picked up and a "full tank" would not be enough fuel to make it coast to coast. (?) Happens all the time. We had a flight ABQ to NYC that was diverted south to avoid weather and we ended up stopping in RDU for fuel.

I always monitor my seat selections because the airline will make changes. You can count on Delta, or AA to change flight numbers, aircraft, and departure times every six weeks until flight time. I make reservations way in advance and have lost my seats several times. If you monitor flights online, you can fix the changes.

 

Good luck,

Kel:)

[serene56]

If the flight changed to a smaller plane-- which does happen a lot today- your seats can be moved. This is why its very important to check those flights at least once a week-- so if changes are made you can catch it in time.

 

We have flights to Orlando in Sept. Our flight was cancelled and they put the 7 of us on a later flight and we were all seated all over the place instead of row by row. They had our 4 year old in a window seat 6 rows from us all by her lonesome. (LOL)

[klfrodo]

Regarding the fuel.

 

These days, planes don't automatically take off with "full" tanks. Fuel is a MAJOR expense. WEIGHT is the number 1 reason for fuel consumption. Too much fuel equals too much weight equals too much fuel consumption equals wasted money.

A couple of things could have happened.

A) From many years of experience, AA knows that a Newark to LAX flight consumes (round numbers here) 1000 gallons of fuel. So, to make the trip, they filled it with 1200 gallons. (additional 200 for safety). After the flight took off the weather changed on the west coast. Head winds increased causing more fuel consumption. Short layover in Denver? or extremely LONG layover somewhere in the California desert?

 

B) Weather changed while in Newark, Captain wanted more fuel. The wait time for the fuel truck was too long to wait for, AA had to make a choice, delay the flight, upset people and congress because they didn't make an on time departure, upset passengers because they were held captive on the tarmac, OR just take off and get some more fuel in Denver.

[zoncom]

Direct does not mean non stop.

[greatam]

Second, when checking in for our return flight on the day off, my itinerary said I was in 35A as I chose it in Feb. when the flights were booked with my friends. Two of us in 1 row and 1 in the next row. However, when I printed my boarding pass, I was changed (without consultation) to 14A. I have never had my seat changed in over 30 years of flying when I've chosen my seat ahead of time like that. They used a lame excuse of oh, well, you hadn't checked in yet and it's normal because they changed the plane. Well, I've had planes changed before and that's never happened. A little detective work revealed, as my friend was still in her original 35C seat, that a couple wanted to be together. She had been in 35B and wanted her husband in the other one. So not right. How does their rights rule over mine? Very annoying. This was on AA. And was in Maui, Hawaii. Just never experienced this before. [/color][/size][/font]

 

Obviously, you didn't use OLCI, which may have prevented the situation in the first place.

 

And changing planes is very common. AA uses an assortment of planes on that route-763/757/occasionally a 762 or 777. While the 762/763 are essentially the same plane (767), they are VERY different inside. You most likely have no idea what type of plane your were originally scheduled to fly on or particularly what series of plane. How can you imply that AA was lying to you about the plane change? All planes I mentioned have row 35. They are generally NOT the same seats in the same position on the plane.

 

Sounds like you were on a 757 but was it the TWA 757's or the original AA 757's? You don't know and neither do I after the fact. And it also sounds like you were betting that booking 35C and 35A, you would have an empty middle seat. You lost the bet and either the passenger who wanted her husband to sit beside her used OLCI and the PNR was the same so the computer put the two of them together OR she got to the airport ahead of you and asked for the seat to be changed.

 

In this instance, you heavily contributed to your own downfall.

[fbgd]

As Globaliser says, fly enough and these things are common practice, certainly the changing of seat assignments.

 

I've had seat assignments change after I've checked in, and at the gate, the last time it happened I was about 99% sure it was for a Federal Air Marshal. Judging by the nature of the change, the airline, the seat they were changed to, the behaviour of said passenger during and after the flight. That wouldn't be the case here FAMs aren't too effective when hemmed into a coach window or middle seat...

 

I'm sure you're absolutely right to describe these events as "ridiculous" and "lame". It's such a pity that none of the airlines benefits from your airline management expertise, because I'm sure that they'd all run like clockwork with no hitches if they had the advantage of you and your wisdom in charge.

 

:D

[PennyAgain]

A seat assignment is not a contract. Period!

 

I've had plenty changed over the decades I've been flying.

 

As for the fuel stop.....would you have prefered to run low?

[FlyerTalker]

Nice to see that AA management continues to follow the notation in your FF profile.....you know, the one that says to keep screwing over Debbie whenever she flies. Time to find a new airline, again.

 

As Globaliser wrote, both of these events happen, much more than you might suspect. I've had seats changed, unplanned stops occur, and more. Comes with the turf.

So not right. How does their rights rule over mine? Very annoying.

Guess AA management reads CC.

[pms4104]

Obviously, you didn't use OLCI, which may have prevented the situation in the first place.

 

And changing planes is very common. AA uses an assortment of planes on that route-763/757/occasionally a 762 or 777. While the 762/763 are essentially the same plane (767), they are VERY different inside. You most likely have no idea what type of plane your were originally scheduled to fly on or particularly what series of plane. How can you imply that AA was lying to you about the plane change? All planes I mentioned have row 35. They are generally NOT the same seats in the same position on the plane.

 

Sounds like you were on a 757 but was it the TWA 757's or the original AA 757's? You don't know and neither do I after the fact. And it also sounds like you were betting that booking 35C and 35A, you would have an empty middle seat. You lost the bet and either the passenger who wanted her husband to sit beside her used OLCI and the PNR was the same so the computer put the two of them together OR she got to the airport ahead of you and asked for the seat to be changed.

 

In this instance, you heavily contributed to your own downfall.

Yes, I would surmise that had the OP and her friend chosen 35A and 35B or 35B and 35C, the chances of seat re-assignment may have been minimalized.

[6rugrats]

I think it's ridiculous and there's more to it than meets the eye.

 

What's your theory?

 

However, when I printed my boarding pass, I was changed (without consultation) to 14A. I have never had my seat changed in over 30 years of flying when I've chosen my seat ahead of time like that. They used a lame excuse of oh, well, you hadn't checked in yet and it's normal because they changed the plane

 

Did you ever check your seat over the last six months? Plane changes are quite common, and when this happens, your seat is often changed by the computer. There was not some sort of nefarious action on the part of the airline to deliberately move your seat. AA's explanation sounds plausible; to prevent this, check in 24 hours in advance and check your seat assignments once in a while. IMO, you ended up with a much better seat assignment. Why would you want to sit in row 35??

[Sargent_Schultz]

It is a shame that airlines don't tell you up front that you seat assignment is nothing more than a seat assignment request.

 

Always nice to see there are some willing to blame the victim for poor performance and communication on the part of the airline.

 

With all the mergers that have happened and will happen, the choices for alternate airlines steadily decreases.

[fbgd]

It is a shame that airlines don't tell you up front that you seat assignment is nothing more than a seat assignment request.

 

They usually do.

[Fattony]

More than meets the eye? Such as what? Making an extra stop is a big deal for an airline, one that costs them money, screws up their schedule, makes customers complain (not pleasant for them). Also need to explain to the FAA. Who knows what caused it? Erroneous fuel reading when they departed? Heavier than expected baggage or passengrs? Unexpectedly high headwinds (traveling west does increase the odds)? Would you have preferred they glide in? If you're really interested, you could see if the FAA has an incident report.

 

Did an airline ever say a seat was absolutely guaranteed? Unless you pay extra for a particular type of seat, don't get it and don't get a refund of the difference, it's just something you live with. I gather everyone arrived safely, and maybe even on time.

[AmoMondo]

We used to have to have the subsequent fuel stop on the larger planes going TA before they extended the runway at Edinburgh. Jumbos could land but they couldn't take off if they had full fuel tanks - extra weight few more yards before take off!

 

As lots of others have said lodas of reasons for the fuel stop but definitely nothing underhand of the airline as this would have cost them more and they don't plan to do things that cost them more. Most likely weather change or delays advised by air traffic control.

 

I've had a few seat changes overtime. SDome due to different aircraft being used - original had faiked to nake it in time or had fault. Some due to mix up/overbooking. Sometimes they work in your favour. I was all set to give Qantas a serve for telling us at the boarding gate they were going to have to change our setas (we'd had 2 prior connecting flights, so had been among the very first people to check in (before the days of OLCI) i was worried we were going to be stuck in the middle of a row until my friend elbowed me in the ribs to say that the row was 27 and economy started at 33, so we were actually getting upgraded to business class. needless to say I shut up immediately!

 

Some airlines now charge extra to book a specific seat. I think you are more likely to get your allocation but really depends on the terms and conditions, especially if they have to switch plane.

[6rugrats]

It is a shame that airlines don't tell you up front that you seat assignment is nothing more than a seat assignment request.

 

They do, most people just don't bother to read it. From FAQ on AA's webpage:

Q: What happens to my seat if American Airlines has a schedule change or an equipment change?A: You will be reaccommodated in a similar seat when possible. However, it may be necessary to change the type of seat and/or break up parties traveling together when similar seating is not possible.

 

American accommodates the seating requirements of customers with certain types of disabilities. This could result in the occasional need to change another individual's pre-assigned seat, with bulkhead seats being particularly subject to reassignment. We appreciate your cooperation in these special circumstances.

 

From AA's Contract of Carriage:

American does not guarantee to provide any particular seat on the aircraft.

 

I do not know when OP checked in for her flight, but if it was not within two hours before scheduled departure, she could have lost the right to retain her assigned seat then.

[cruzegirl]

Debbie,

 

Sounds like the head-wind speed picked up and a "full tank" would not be enough fuel to make it coast to coast. (?) Happens all the time. We had a flight ABQ to NYC that was diverted south to avoid weather and we ended up stopping in RDU for fuel.

I always monitor my seat selections because the airline will make changes. You can count on Delta, or AA to change flight numbers, aircraft, and departure times every six weeks until flight time. I make reservations way in advance and have lost my seats several times. If you monitor flights online, you can fix the changes.

 

Good luck,

Kel:)

 

 

Thanks Kel.

[serene56]

I do not agree that couples are given first choice.

 

It sounds like this was a plane change so the people who were already on the flight that you changed to already had their seat assignments. the NEW people then had to be accomadated.

 

I have seen many couples split up on our trips to aruba.

[kenish]

What? Newark doesn't have fuel to have fueled before take off? I think it's ridiculous and there's more to it than meets the eye

cruzegirl- I think this part was off-putting to many. Declaring something as "ridiculous" means it's been judged as that, based on knowledge and experience. If so, then no question is necessary ("What?") and instead you should let us know exactly why this was ridiculous for our benefit and education. :)

Airline flights are required to land with certain fuel reserves. Paraphrasing, it has to be enough for 3 landing attempts then fly to the nearest authorized alternate airport that is NOT having adverse weather. Rest assured there was plenty of fuel to get to LAX but they wouldn't have landed with legal reserves in the tanks. There are myriad other things that may have caused the unexpected stop. Hypothetical example, the aircraft was to refuel in LAX, then fly to DFW. But a fueling point at the arrival gate at LAX was out of service. Using another gate at LAX required shuffling of other flights, delaying most of them. In the bottom line it was best to refuel the plane in DEN instead of LAX. (Again, a made up but typical example).

Fattony- Unless there is a low-fuel emergency there is no FAA reporting or involvement. The flight made a landing in DEN (no doubt with an amended flight plan) to avoid exactly that possiblity.

On the seats- many airlines call it a seat "request" instead of a seat "assignment". Also the explanations in this thread make complete sense....another likely possiblity is one or both of the couple had status as customers and requested seating together. Won't debate the fairness of this but it happens all the time.

[jagoffee]

Cruzegirl,

 

I do not think any of us like it when our reserved seat selection in changed, but if you have gone 30 years without it changes, you have been very lucky. If you have flown a lot in those 30 years, I am very surprised. Perhaps it will not happen for another 30 years, but I would not count on it unless you are flying Southwest.

[scottbee]

Two things just happened on my flight and my friends flights coming out to me and then going on to Hawaii on our vacation. It really surprised me. Wondering if this is common.

 

First, my friends flew Continental from Newark to LAX. A direct flight. They no sooner get in the air than they are notified that they will be stopping in Colorado for fuel. What? Newark doesn't have fuel to have fueled before take off? I think it's ridiculous and there's more to it than meets the eye.

 

Almost all planes can carry full fuel, or full passengers/cargo, not both. The airline likely made the decision to not leave behind luggage and/or cargo, determining it was more costly for them to make up for that, than the time and cost of an additional fuel stop in Denver (which adds only 23 miles to the great circle distance). This is not uncommon when flying westbound on transcontinental flights on the larger 737-800 and -900s and A320s/A321s (the smaller 737-600/700 and A319 have slightly larger range, being a little lighter, but with similar fuel capacity as their larger brothers).

 

It's also not unusual for airlines operating 757s into Europe to make stops in eastern Canada (Halifax/Gander/StJohns) or Bangor,ME on westbound transatlantics during the winter. AS/Alaska Air & WS/Westjet have made a number of stops in OAK/SFO during the winter on their flights from the northwest to Hawaii during bad headwinds. and the the AS ANC-HNL flight has been known to have to detour via SEA (serious detour), or even top up in ADQ for additional fuel, to make it legal/safe)

 

 

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ewr-den-lax%0D%0Aewr-lax&MS=wls&DU=mi

[NHBob]

... for additional fuel, to make it legal/safe

 

That's really the key point in this whole discussion. Thanks for your accurate, rational explanation of the subject, although I'm sure there will be some who remain convinced that the airlines are out to get them!

 

Reminds me of a flight quite a few years ago, Seattle-Hong Kong or perhaps Singapore non-stop as I recall, when after about 15 hours in the air the captain came on to announce that we were going to have to make a refueling stop in Taiwan.

 

He apologized for the inconvenience but said he thought it would be preferable to landing in the sea a few hundred miles short of Hong Kong. I don't recall anybody complaining!

 

Bob

[Chesie]

We just had a switch over last month. We were on a cruise and when we arrived in LAX port I checked my messages. Delta said they had an equipment change and could we move over to another flight. We were flying BusinessElite and I believe the plane held 36 vs 16. We took the switch to an earlier flight, which actually worked out better! Good thing because our original flight was entirely canceled! Just had a gut feeling about it. Guess it paid off

[Fattony]

Almost all planes can carry full fuel, or full passengers/cargo, not both. The airline likely made the decision to not leave behind luggage and/or cargo, determining it was more costly for them to make up for that, than the time and cost of an additional fuel stop in Denver (which adds only 23 miles to the great circle distance).

 

 

A friend in Fortaleza, Brazil,where we are, flew with some friends on Cabo Verde Airlines to Cape Verde, and later on to Senegal. When they arrived in Cape Verde they found their luggage had not arrived. In fact, no one's luggage arrived. Not one piece. Later, when they got to Senegal, the airline forwarded their bags to them-- and charged them extra for the frieght forwarding. I'm assuming this was incompetency, and fuel saving, even though there is in fact no place to land for refueling between the two places (the airline did eventually send the bags, after all, albeit at a charge). At least on the initial flight they avoided anyone being able to say, "You took that guy's bags, but not mine! Unfair!" Everyone was screwed equally.

 

I was once booked on the upper deck of a 747 for JFK-JNB. Airline used it for economy class. But there was an equipment change, so I was moved to another seat, in the general economy class section. At least I wrangled a bulkhead seat.