ignoring passenger safety

[Cruisin' Chick]

Just in case the OP comes back (I'm going to guess that he sincerely believes he has a legitimate complaint:

 

1) First, if you're going to write a letter to a corporation, you need to make it readable. You never use all caps, unless you're sending a Western Union telegram. You break up the paragraphs with a space in between. You state what you're looking for in the first paragraph.

 

2) And you don't make unreasonable demands (if you got a full refund for the excursion, that's a pretty good compensation; if you are looking for a partial refund on the actual cruise, that's unreasonable).

[lovevacadays]

3 days free for emotional stress would be fair.

 

 

Too funny! You have to be kidding. The OP seems one who just wants to come on and post something negative.:eek::eek::eek:

[caribill]

What would be fair in my mind is a letter from Princess indicating that the vendor has been notified of the safety shortcomings and has been told to have safety in mind in the future and be truly able to work with novices or the contract witrh the vendor will be terminated.

[Sargent_Schultz]

Welcome to Cruise Critic!

 

I snorkel a lot. The "bleach" is a little bit added to a huge volume of water - if they added at all. Your BIL is an alarmist. There might well be more chlorine in your drinking water at home. :eek:

 

I flat out reject your assertion that safety and security are not important to Princess. Cruise lines - all of them - err on the side of caution. If they skipped the Stingray Sandbar these days, it is all about passenger safety.

 

On the best day I think a 50% refund was more than you should be entitled to.

[Pam in CA]

I flat out reject your assertion that safety and security are not important to Princess. Cruise lines - all of them - err on the side of caution. If they skipped the Stingray Sandbar these days, it is all about passenger safety.

A few years ago, we took the RCCL stingray sandbar tour from Explorer of the Seas. It was a windy day and when we got to the sandbar, the tide was high, the current was swift, and the waves were rough. We should never have stopped and the tour should have been canceled. The water was way too high to stand on the sandbar, the current was too strong to do much other than hang onto the anchor rope, and we were bounced up and down with the stingrays below us. You were afraid to put your legs down in case you accidentally stepped on one as you came down. Kids were screaming... everyone was upset. It was truly frightening. Forget snorkeling. If you attempted it, you'd find yourself carried by the current hundreds of feet away before the boat could raise anchor and get you onboard. As people tried to reboard, they were slammed against the steps making it extremely difficult without assistance. For safety, only the front steps could be used.. if you tried the side and lost your grip, you'd be swept away. The funny thing is that it didn't look that bad until we were in the water. No compensation from RCCL.

[Times Prince]

I'm not even sure about OP's bleach issue. We snorkel on cruises almost every chance we get. Yes, the good tour operators soak their snorkels in a DILUTED (sorry for the caps, I know we're all sensitive now) bleach solution. These diluted solutions aren't much stronger than you'll get in a swimming pool. Just because OP's brother-in-law said it was bleach doesn't mean it was full strength. It probably wasn't dangerous.

Having been trained in safe food handling while supporting my daughter's high school band, I can tell you the mantra is Wash-Rinse-Sanitize for all cookware and utensils. Sanitize is a process where dishes etc. are put in a diluted bleach solution, which kills germs. So if the OP was concerned about the bleach solution, it was unnecessary. As a matter of fact most people would be concerned if there wasn't such a solution between uses of snorkels.

 

I was recently on a Snorkel / Sting Rays Princess excursion in Grand Cayman, and it was one of the highlights of the cruise. We did go to the sand bar, which is where the sting rays come, and then to a nearby barrier reef into the bay. The people running the excursion thoroughly explained the use of the snorkel, mask, and also the use and need for the snorkel vest.

 

I have never been on a Princess sponsored excursion where the operators did not provide all the assistance one would need. It is, however, ultimately a personal decision to enter the water. One is always provided with, and must sign, a waiver form acknowledging the potential risks from snorkeling. Even when one has an equipment malfunction (as I did several cruises ago), they are quick to provide assistance.

 

While I sympathize with the OP for her panic experience, I think it also possible that the briefing onboard the boat was missed, and she overestimated her ability to swim. I am impressed that a refund was given for the excursion by Princess, however that is not unusual when there are rough sea conditions - there have been several snorkeling excursions (mostly in Aruba) where we opted out before the excursion boat sailed, and we were refunded the cost.

[jrzebird]

Oh my word. I could barely read your 'letters' because of the CAPS. I sure hope that's not how you sent them out.

 

On my last cruise I took an excursion where I and about 40 others got very sick, most likely from a Mexican buffet that was included in our tour. I wrote to Princess, and made it very clear that I wasn't looking for anything, I just thought that they should know what happened so they could vet their excursions better. I got a very nice reply, not terribly satisfying, but it was all I expected.

 

In order to recover anything under the law, you have to suffer, and be able to prove, by independent experts, an actual loss or injury, and apparently, you did not suffer a loss or injury. You were reimbursed for the cost of the excursion, and being frightened and swallowing water isn't an injury. I have no idea what you were looking for, and you didn't state it in your letter, so neither does Princess.

[Judycpro]

Ok, I am sorry for your experience, and I can sympathize with having a panic attack. Yes, maybe those running the tour should have provided basic instructions, even if just a refresher. That being said, it is not Princess' fault. However, if the tour does say novices are welcome, they need to accommodate novices, and if they don't, Princess should be notified.

 

I am a seasoned snorkeler. I have ended up in very unsafe conditions at time...in all cases, the tour operators Faust the tour or come out and get everyone back on board. Was it scary, yes, but I didn't expect compensation from Princess.

 

Just last year, we did the bioluminescent kayaking excursion in San Juan. I was looking forward to it very much. I am an experienced kayaker. As it turned out, it was a very strenuous and potentially dangerous excursion. My legs cramped up, and it took all my might to get back to the launch location, through ridiculously choppy ocean wVes. This was at night, making it colder and riskier. I have no idea how those not strong at kayaking made it back. Guides did help a couple of people.

 

As it turned out, this was anew excursion, and Princess sent one of their excursion staff along to evaluate it. Needless to say, all of us provided detailed feedback on the excursion. The pluses and minuses Out of all the excursions I have ever taken on Princess, this one did scare me. However, did I ask for compensation? No. Did I ask for a refund? No. Princess wasn't at fault for my cramps or the severe waves.

 

Providing feedback was good enough for me. If this excursion is still available, then I hope they have improved it. That's all I expect and hope for. One needs to know their own limitations and assess excursions accordingly.

 

Judy

[hansi]

i first wrote in feb and then in sept. both times they showed uncaringness for my well being.other cruise lines i went on showed deep concern for the passenger. they stressed good will.

 

MR.ALAN Buckelew PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER

PRINCESS CRUISES 9/15/13

I REGRET THAT I HAVE TO ADD TO THE CARNIVAL CORP. PROBLEMS. AFTER GREAT CONSIDERATION, I FEEL THAT I MUST PURSUE THIS TROUBLING MATTER. AROUND THE END OF FEBRUARY I SPOKE TO LAURA Messer FROM CUSTOMER RELATIONS (VERY NICE) WHO SAID THAT SINCE I WAS CREDITED BACK FOR THE EXCURSION, THERE’S NOTHING SHE CAN DO. SHE SAID I SHOULD FOLLOW UP WITH YOUR OFFICE WHICH I AM NOW DOING, SINCE I AM NOT SATISFIED WITH HER DECISION. HOPEFULLY, YOU WILL COME TO A MORE AMENABLE DECISION. I WAS VERY STRESSED THE LAST 3 DAYS DUE TO THIS HAPPENING.I FEEL THAT I SHOULD BE COMPENSATED FOR THOSE DAYS. CARNIVAL CORP. HAS BEEN STRESSING “PASSENGER SAFETY “. THIS WAS DEFINITELY NOT THE CASE WITH ME. FOLLOWING IS THE LETTER I PREVIOUSLY SENT TO CUSTOMER SERVICE.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING.

SINCERELY

LAWRENCE B

 

 

PRINCESS CRUISE LINE 2/28/2013

 

WE HAD A WONDERFUL TIME ON THE ISLAND PRINCESS PANAMA CANAL CRUISE FROM 2/6-2/16/2012.THE STAFF WAS EXCELLENT, THE FOOD WAS VERY GOOD, THE ENTERTAINMENT WAS FABULOUS AND THE SHIP WAS KEPT VERY CLEAN. WE WERE SO SATISFIED, THAT OTHER PEOPLE WITH US AND US SIGNED UP FOR FUTURE CRUISES. THEREFORE, I RATE PRINCESS A “10”.

I COMPLETED THE ONLINE SURVEY AND NOTED IN COMMENTS MY VERY BAD EXCURSION OUTING. SINCE 2/17 I HAVEN’T RECEIVED ANY RESPONSE. I AM VERY SURPRISED; ESPECIALLY SINCE THE CRUISE WAS OPERATED VERY EFFICIENTLY .HERE’S THE PROBLEM.

UNDER CRUISE Personalizer: WHY CHOOSE PRINCESS SHORE EXCURSIONS? IT STATES: SAFETY - YOUR SECURITY AND SAFETY ARE OF PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE AND WE CLOSELY MONITOR OUR TOUR OPERATORS TO ENSURE THEY OPERATE SAFELY, ETC. APPARENTLY; SOMEONE DIDN’T READ THIS AND GOOFED UP.

I SIGNED UP FOR THE SNORKELING AND STING-RAY EXCURSION. SAFETY AND SECURITY WAS COMPLETELY NOT EVIDENT. THE DESCRIPTION STATED THAT IT IS ALSO FOR NOVICES OF WHICH I AM ONE. THE ONLY INSTRUCTION WAS TO STAY IN AN AREA. FOLLOWING WERE THE PROBLEMS I INCURRED.

I WAS JUST ABOUT TO PUT THE SNORKEL IN MY MOUTH WHEN MY BROTHER-IN-LAW STOPPED ME. HE SAID THAT IT’S IN BLEACH AND I SHOULD WASH IT OFF. NO INSTRUCTIONS. I COULD HAVE INJURED MY THROAT.

I FINALLY MANAGED TO GO INTO THE WATER WHICH WAS VERY CHOPPY. SOMEONE (NOT THE GUIDE) TOLD SOME OF US TO GO BACK AND PUT ON A LIFE JACKET WHICH I DID .I WENT BACK IN AND SWALLOWED A LOT OF WATER. (NO INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO USE SNORKEL).I STARTED TO HAVE A PANIC ATTACK AND FINALLY GRABBED THE ANCHOR CABLE. THE GUIDE ASKED IF I WAS IN TROUBLE-I NODDED YES. HE THEN ASKED IF I NEEDED HELP GETTING OUT (VERY OBVIOUS). I NODDED YES. HE HELPED ME UP AND ON BOARD. IT WAS A VERY TERRIFYING EXPERIENCE. I WAS SHAKEN UP FOR QUITE AWHILE.

LATER WE WENT TO THE STING-RAY AREA. THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE WHERE YOU COULD STAND ON A SAND BARGE AND THE WATER ABOUT WAIST HIGH. THE GUIDE INSTEAD WENT TO AN AREA WHERE YOU HAD TO PUT THE SNORKEL GEAR ON AGAIN. IF I COULDN’T DO IT THE FIRST TIME, THEN I COULDN’T DO IT THIS TIME.

AS YOU CAN TELL BY NOW, THE EXCURSION WAS DEFINITELY MISREPRESENTED. I COULD SWIM, BUT NOT IN THE VERY CHOPPY OCEAN. I DEFINITELY WOULDN’T HAVE CHOSEN THAT EXCURSION.

I COMPLAINED TO THE EXCURSION DESK. AFTER CHECKING IT OUT THEY GAVE ME HALVE CREDIT. I WAS NOT SATISFIED AND SPOKE TO THE MGR. SHE WAS VERY UNDERSTANDING AND CHECKED FURTHER. LATER, SHE STATED THAT THE GUIDE DECIDED NOT TO GO TO THE SAND BARGE. SHE CREDITED MY ACCOUNT FOR THE BALANCE. I DIDN’T WANT TO MAKE A BIG DEAL OUT OF THIS BECAUSE EVERYONE WAS SO NICE.

AFTER RELIVING THAT HORRIFIC EXPERIENCE SEVERAL TIMES SINCE BEING HOME, I FEEL THAT I MUST MAKE PRINCESS AWARE OF THIS MATTER. THE EXCURSION SECTION IS AWARE OF THIS AND ADMITTED THEIR ERROR FOR SAFETY WHEN THEY CREDITED MY ACCOUNT.

WE HAVE TRAVELED ON CARNIVAL AND NOW PRINCESS. I TRY TO BE LOYAL AND WANT TO BE LOYAL TO WHERE I AM APPRECIATED. I WOULD WANT TO KEEP THIS MATTER BETWEEN YOU AND ME AND NOT PURSUE IT ANY FURTHER. I TRUST THAT PRINCESS WILL MAKE A DECISION SATISFACTORY TO US BOTH.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING AND COOPERATION.

 

SINCERELY,

LAWRENCE B

 

.

 

Why are you shouting?:eek: The fact that it's all in CAPITALS probably means that they won't even bother to read it.:rolleyes:

[Woobstr112G]

I'm confused with he OP's original title/post.....:D:D:D

 

Bob

Edited November 28, 2013 by Woobstr112G

[Frugalist]

During our last Caribbean cruise on Princess, one of the activities on the first sea day was free snorkeling lessons. Granted, this was about 6 years ago. Don't know if they still offer this. If it was offered, I wonder if OP took advantage of the opportunity for free instruction in the ship's pool with qualified instructors, knowing he was going on a snorkeling excursion shortly?

[caribill]

During our last Caribbean cruise on Princess, one of the activities on the first sea day was free snorkeling lessons. Granted, this was about 6 years ago. Don't know if they still offer this. If it was offered, I wonder if OP took advantage of the opportunity for free instruction in the ship's pool with qualified instructors, knowing he was going on a snorkeling excursion shortly?

 

I do not believe anything like this is offered anymore.

[notentirelynormal]

This story reminds me of our experience in Aruba. We had chartered two sailboats for our group of 22 people. Ages ranging from 1 YO, 2 YO, 4 YO and adults up to 68. Varying ranges of swimming abilities. Well, it was a lovely day. Water was beautiful, snorkeling was great, lunch on board wonderful. Now it was time to come back. Instead of pulling up to a dock the cat was just going to pull up on the beach and we'd all hop off with our stuff. Remember we had small children and had all their stuff with us as well.

 

The waves were big. Let me restate that. The waves were BIG and the cat captain had a lot of trouble getting in. My daughter was the first one off but then they had to back off since they didn't want to be thrown into the nearby rocks. Out we go. The baby is screaming for her mother. Several attempts and half an hour later we were still trying to get to the beach. Finally the captain from the second cat swam over, our guy got out and together they tried to guide the boat in. People on the beach realized the difficulty we were having and a couple of guys waited to see if they could assist.

 

The got us "close". We were still about 10 feet out. We weren't getting any closer. We had to jump off with our clothes in hand, all our snorkeling gear, cameras and day bag and walk to the beach. Waves knocking into us. Even standing on the beach it was difficult. One of our group caught her clothes on the boat and fell in/over and had to be pulled back on (although her husband swears he was grabbing for the camera she was holding). When I got to the beach my daughter grabbed me because she thought the wave was going to knock me down. Instead SHE pulled me over and down I went. The kids had to be carried in too.

 

Anyway, same procedure for the second boat. All in all it took us around an hour to get unloaded and was quite, ummm, exciting.

 

What did I take away from this day. Fabulous tour and the ending, well that made it even more memorable. Who needs a roller coaster?

 

Did we ask for compensation? No of course not. We got what we paid for and our tour was a little longer then expected. Good thing we planned to be back on the ship early. :D

[west coast cruiser]

Unbelievable post! Be glad you got a refund for the tour and quit while your'e ahead!!![/quote

 

He really didn't deserve that IMHO. He sure has disappeared from the thread hasn't he?

[vmom]

Just because you sign up for an excursion and are on vacation doesn't mean that you personally do not have to use good judgement about your own personal skills.

 

What made this particular outing difficult was the rough seas on that particular day. You should have used better judgement and not gone in the water that day.

 

Princess not charging you for the excursion seems reasonable giving the circumstances.

 

My husband and I were on an excursion in Grand Turk following a fall storm. The seas were too rough for me and I have snorkeled many times, so I stayed in the boat. My husband was an extremely strong swimmer and snorkeled without difficulty.

 

I used good judgement, knowing that the seas were too rough for my ability and did not snorkel. My husband knew he was experienced and strong enough to handle it and did so with no problem.

 

Its called personal judgement and it doesn't go away just because you are on vacation.

 

How is Princess responsible for your lack of good judgement? I know you said you were a swimmer ( so am I) but obviously you were not strong enough of a swimmer for the conditions of the seas. You lacked good judgement by putting yourself in an unsafe situation. Princess is not responsible for knowing your abilities and strengths.

 

Further, the snorkels are in a mild solution with just a little bit of bleach used as a disinfectant. Your brother in law was completely overreacting. Maybe you should do a bit more research before complaining. The solution used is not pure bleach or not even a large % of bleach.

 

Your expectations are way out of line and totally unrealistic.

 

I suggest you take more personal responsibility for what happened since you shouldn't have been in the water in rough seas.

Edited November 29, 2013 by vmom

[TracieABD]

To the OP:

As a former mediator, I want to ask a question:

Bottom line: What do you want?

 

If you can't identify this, then no one can help you.

[LovesCruising]

3 days free for emotional stress would be fair.

 

You're kidding us right?

 

:eek:Exactly what I was thinking

[paul929207]

To the OP:

As a former mediator, I want to ask a question:

Bottom line: What do you want?

 

If you can't identify this, then no one can help you.

OP stated that he wanted a refund of three days worth of the cost of the cruise.

[TracieABD]

OP stated that he wanted a refund of three days worth of the cost of the cruise.

 

My question was loaded with a bit of rhetoric. One gets the distinct feeling that if he received 3 days compensation, he would want more.

 

I guess this was my poor attempt at moving from the obvious to the sublime.;)

[wineforhealth]

If the OP had an issue why would he wait a year to write a letter?

[donaldsc]

i first wrote in feb and then in sept. both times they showed uncaringness for my well being.other cruise lines i went on showed deep concern for the passenger. they stressed good will.

 

 

WE HAVE TRAVELED ON CARNIVAL AND NOW PRINCESS. I TRY TO BE LOYAL AND WANT TO BE LOYAL TO WHERE I AM APPRECIATED. I WOULD WANT TO KEEP THIS MATTER BETWEEN YOU AND ME AND NOT PURSUE IT ANY FURTHER. I TRUST THAT PRINCESS WILL MAKE A DECISION SATISFACTORY TO US BOTH.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING AND COOPERATION.

 

SINCERELY,

LAWRENCE B

 

.

 

Did you notice this bit. If you buy me off with some sort of a cash settlement, I will keep quiet about the problem. If you do not buy me off, I go public with it.

 

Does the word attempted blackmail apply?

 

DON

[thinfool]

Here is what you signed onto when you paid Princess for your cruise.....(from the Passage Contract)

 

"•© Claims for Emotional Distress: Carrier shall not be liable to the Passenger for damages for emotional distress, mental suffering or psychological injury of any kind, under any circumstances, except for such damages proven in a court of competent jurisdiction arising from and attributable to Passenger's physical injury or as the result of Passenger having been at actual risk of immediate physical injury proximately caused by Carrier's negligence ("Emotional Harm")."

 

Sounds like your lawyer is going to make several payments on his new boat...and you will still lose.

[Dachsie5]

As Judge Judy would say "you ate the steak", LOL! Just be happy that you are ok, and you got credit for the excursion, and that you enjoyed the cruise! Life is too short to argue about this little bump in the road!

[Prof96]

 

On my last cruise I took an excursion where I and about 40 others got very sick, most likely from a Mexican buffet that was included in our tour. I wrote to Princess, and made it very clear that I wasn't looking for anything, I just thought that they should know what happened so they could vet their excursions better. I got a very nice reply, not terribly satisfying, but it was all I expected.

 

.

 

I agree the OP got more than I would expect. In your case I wonder if Princess addressed this with the tour operator or made changes to the excursion. I am sailing to Mexico twice this winter. What excursion were you on? Thanks!

[geoherb]

We're going to Grand Cayman next month. The level for that particular excursion is listed as moderate. It sounds like someone was in over their heads. I have seen people who needed more attention than the crew gives on snorkeling excursions. But I wouldn't expect more than a full refund for a bad excursion unless someone suffered physical harm.