What does the future hold for Azamara

[jackom]

Hear hear

 

Totally agree

[Lottie A]

I was on Quest three weeks ago and we had an interesting conversation with the Hotel Director....someone who surely knows more about Azamara's long term plans than some of the speculative and negative views posted here by doom and gloom people.

 

In short he told us that Azamara had a very profitable year ....in fact, it was the first year that they had actually made a profit in their history. He said that plans were firmly being made for a third ship. He agreed with our view that it was sad that Quest was being chartered for such a large chunk of 2015/6 but we also understood his premise that this was was good business sense for the company. He also listened to our views on the loss of internet in the LCV benefits "upgrade" and said he would feed them back.

I know whose opinion I would place my trust in!

[nordski]

I was on Quest three weeks ago and we had an interesting conversation with the Hotel Director....someone who surely knows more about Azamara's long term plans than some of the speculative and negative views posted here by doom and gloom people.

 

In short he told us that Azamara had a very profitable year ....in fact, it was the first year that they had actually made a profit in their history. He said that plans were firmly being made for a third ship. He agreed with our view that it was sad that Quest was being chartered for such a large chunk of 2015/6 but we also understood his premise that this was was good business sense for the company. He also listened to our views on the loss of internet in the LCV benefits "upgrade" and said he would feed them back.

I know whose opinion I would place my trust in!

 

Thanks for the post.

 

On another thread Host Andy kindly posted the first post by our founding CBO Bill Leiber who identified his role as distinguishing "factual knowledge" from "inferential knowledge" on this board. It seems we are experiencing what may be a surplus of the latter.

[Jade13]

I was on Quest three weeks ago and we had an interesting conversation with the Hotel Director....someone who surely knows more about Azamara's long term plans than some of the speculative and negative views posted here by doom and gloom people.

 

In short he told us that Azamara had a very profitable year ....in fact, it was the first year that they had actually made a profit in their history. He said that plans were firmly being made for a third ship. He agreed with our view that it was sad that Quest was being chartered for such a large chunk of 2015/6 but we also understood his premise that this was was good business sense for the company. He also listened to our views on the loss of internet in the LCV benefits "upgrade" and said he would feed them back.

I know whose opinion I would place my trust in!

 

That is good to hear. I was wondering if Azamara had turned a profit yet.

 

Sounds positive.

[tonyd285]

Thanks Host Andy. I have Mercury on my brain. On September 11, 2001 we were on the Mercury in Sitka, AK when we learned of the attacks on NYC and the Pentagon. Celebrity Cruises did wonderful things to ensure our safety and comfort until they could arrange for us to return home. As an aside, our breakfast waiter was from Egypt and when we asked him if he had any additional news he said all he knew was that Japan had attacked the US.

[kiawahdon]

I challenge kiawahdon to provide real numbers to support his assertion that Azamara's "cash flow is weak" and that chartering their ships "doesn't really improve the bottom line." I'm really quite tired of his incessant uninformed, unfounded, gloom-and-doom opinions. Without substantiating numbers, his opinions are just so much hot air.

 

I am still waiting for the name of another major cruise line that has chartered the majority of their "plum" fall season.

Just another tid-bit. Oceania Riveriera was last in drydocks in November '12 and it was just announced it will be getting further upgrades in a '16.

You may feel differently, but personally musty staterooms and baths are not my cup of tea.

 

You can rant and say I don't know what I am saying, but facts are facts. If you read RCI sec filings as I do, you might put the Pom proms away and look at facts- not blind loyalty, which I respect, but can't accept with the over riding facts that AZ is floundering.

Edited September 24, 2014 by kiawahdon

[marinaro44]

I am still waiting for the name of another major cruise line that has chartered the majority of their "plum" fall season.

Just another tid-bit. Oceania Riveriera was last in drydocks in November '12 and it was just announced it will be getting further upgrades in a '16.

You may feel differently, but personally musty staterooms and baths are not my cup of tea.

 

You can rant and say I don't know what I am saying, but facts are facts. If you read RCI sec filings as I do, you might put the Pom proms away and look at facts- not blind loyalty, which I respect, but can't accept with the over riding facts that AZ is floundering.

"Facts are facts?" You haven't given us one fact. We all are still waiting for your numbers to support your assertion that Azamara's "cash flow is weak" and that charters do not help the "bottom line." Until you support those assertions with numbers, they are worthless.

 

You earlier in this thread said Azamara "canceled" the 2012 and 2013 drydocks for Quest and Journey. You were wrong, but saying so fit your unfailingly negative view of Azamara. Was that an example of your "facts?"

 

Now, with nothing whatsoever to support it, you say Azamara is "floundering." They are profitable, have positive cash flow, have much higher member review ratings here than Oceania and Regent, and bookings are at an all-time high. So give us numbers to support your assertion that Azamara is "floundering."

 

Is it because Azamara hasn't announced they are building a new ship? Regent went ten years between their last new build--Voyager, delivered in 2003--and their 2013 announcement of a new build. So they were "floundering," too, for all those years?

 

And you've also forgotten that Quest and Journey will have drydocks in 2015 and 2016, the same timetable as Riviera, but that doesn't fit your negative view either, so you conveniently overlook it in all your increasingly vituperative rants.

 

You are this board's best example of posting what Bill Leiber derisively called "inferential knowledge," a polite euphemism he used for hot air.

[Andy]

I challenge Host Andy or anyone else to name 1 cruise line that has taken weeks off the plate and chartered their ships. The only reason management does this is that cash flow is weak and the future uncertain. It is heads on beds but doesn't really improve the bottom line. You do not build brand loyalty by taking weeks off the cruise calendar. All this does, as has been expressed, is alienate potential passengers. In my humble opinion, when Larry lays awake at night, he knows what the future holds- and it isn't great.

 

Hi Kiawahdon,

 

I truly have zero interest in getting into a debate with you. As I was mentioned in your post, I thought your post deserved my reply.

 

On a few occasions, you've equated Azamara charters to negative financials. That's highly unlikely. There's no way that you (or any of us) have the financial facts to back up your comments, thereby making your allegations baseless. In case you aren't aware - charter business is very profitable. Just because Azamara is offering charters, it simply does not equate to weak cash flow or weak overall business for that matter.

 

Azamara has a responsibility to deliver profits. When selling a charter, the ship is sold for the duration, and the cruise line doesn't have to worry about individual bookings, and filling the ship. IMO, it's a smart business decision. While such developments tend to upset previously booked guests... in Azamara's case, we are talking about 2016 here. There couldn't be that many guests with deposited bookings. I'm taking the other side of the debate, and suggesting the charters are positive for Azamara.

 

On a final note, if Larry Pimentel says that Azamara is doing well financially, I'm taking his word for it. As for your comments, let's just agree to disagree.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Host Andy

[Spursgirl]

I am still waiting for the name of another major cruise line that has chartered the majority of their "plum" fall season.

Just another tid-bit. Oceania Riveriera was last in drydocks in November '12 and it was just announced it will be getting further upgrades in a '16.

You may feel differently, but personally musty staterooms and baths are not my cup of tea.

 

You can rant and say I don't know what I am saying, but facts are facts. If you read RCI sec filings as I do, you might put the Pom proms away and look at facts- not blind loyalty, which I respect, but can't accept with the over riding facts that AZ is floundering.

 

I sailed on Azamara three weeks ago. My stateroom was not musty, far from it and my bathroom though tiny was in excellent condition.

 

When did you last sail on Quest or Journey?

 

Though some of Azamara's recent announcements have not thrilled me, I prefer to remember a very positive chat Lottie A and I had with the Hotel Director. He informed us of facts which I choose to believe.

 

You like all of us are entitled to your opinion but I now have a more positive view of Azamara's future evolution.

[Lottie A]

To just remind people of my previous post, the Hotel Director on Quest three weeks ago firmly stated that it was the first year that Azamara had actually made a profit and that a third ship was very much on the cards. Despite Hazel and myself not liking the Quest charters as it removes our options at a time of year when we like to cruise on Quest, I can totally understand the Hotel Director's premise that this makes Azamara more profitable. He knows what he is talking about and other negative opinions by a poster here are pure speculation with no actual facts to back it up. I am much more confident of Azamara's financial future now.

 

As to other cruise lines chartering their ships, well I happen to know of a six star line that is in final negotiations to charter a ship for two months in 2016.

 

I have no wish to get into a dispute with anyone but the constant negativity from some posters is annoying me. If Kiawahdon thinks the cabins are "musty," he could not be more mistaken. Ours was perfectly kept by our lovely stateroom attendant Girlie and was in no way "musty". As Hazel also asked....I too wonder when Kiawahdon actually last sailed on an Azamara ship? For us it was Quest three weeks ago and we are on Journey in about six weeks, so I think we can justifiably say we have current information.

As Host Andy says ...we can all agree to disagree, but I think facts and not speculation would be useful here.

[wangeling gal]

I was just thinking that if Azamara were ever to purchase a third ship, that maybe they could use that vessel for their charters, and leave the Quest & Journey to those who love to sail, explore and holiday upon them to be able to do just that.

This could possibly be a way to have a win/win for eveyone:D

Just a simple thought while dreaming of our next cruise;)

To all those cruising soon have a wonderful time:)

[excitedofharpenden]

I am still waiting for the name of another major cruise line that has chartered the majority of their "plum" fall season.

Just another tid-bit. Oceania Riveriera was last in drydocks in November '12 and it was just announced it will be getting further upgrades in a '16.

You may feel differently, but personally musty staterooms and baths are not my cup of tea.

 

You can rant and say I don't know what I am saying, but facts are facts. If you read RCI sec filings as I do, you might put the Pom proms away and look at facts- not blind loyalty, which I respect, but can't accept with the over riding facts that AZ is floundering.

 

Just for balance, between April and July I stayed in 5 different staterooms on Journey and none of them were musty. They were all very clean and tidy. This is how it's been on all of my Azamara cruises.

 

Phil

[Spursgirl]

I was just thinking that if Azamara were ever to purchase a third ship, that maybe they could use that vessel for their charters, and leave the Quest & Journey to those who love to sail, explore and holiday upon them to be able to do just that.

This could possibly be a way to have a win/win for eveyone:D

Just a simple thought while dreaming of our next cruise;)

To all those cruising soon have a wonderful time:)

 

I like your solution!

[BBMacLaird]

I challenge Host Andy or anyone else to name 1 cruise line that has taken weeks off the plate and chartered their ships. The only reason management does this is that cash flow is weak and the future uncertain. It is heads on beds but doesn't really improve the bottom line. You do not build brand loyalty by taking weeks off the cruise calendar. All this does, as has been expressed, is alienate potential passengers. In my humble opinion, when Larry lays awake at night, he knows what the future holds- and it isn't great.

 

Hello Kiawahdon, as an ex-Revenue Manager of Seabourn and Cunard, I speak from many years of experience when I tell you charters are extremely profitable, not only in net dollars, but also with up-front, non-refundable down-payments. This means the money may be in the bank for many years in advance, and cannot be recalled.

 

I note, with a bit of surprise, that besides Azamara, your other favorite lines that you've listed on your profile are Seabourn and Oceania. I'm sure you're well aware that both of these lines welcome charters and large groups. Note the webpage on my old alma mater: http://www.seabourn.com/corporateIncentives/Main.action?WT.ac=footer_charters

And Oceania Cruises: http://www.oceaniacruises.com/chartersincentives/default.aspx. And for the record, here is our charter webpage: http://www.azamaraclubcruises.com/charters

 

Since you're obviously familiar with, and favor lines which all welcome and operate many charters, why the outrage over our 2016 charters? and why pretend charters are unfamiliar to you, or a sign of financial ruin, when all of your favorite lines welcome them with enough advance notice and the terms are right?

 

I do welcome your posts, Kiawadon. I'm just trying to understand what others are calling 'negativity' and I might call 'curious'. A quick review of your prior posts on CC indicate you are extremely well-versed in the world of stocks and finance. I wonder what your true intention is for the disruptive threads?

 

Best regards,

Bonnie

 

[bigmjh]

Thumbs up for Bonnie ... WAY UP! Nice response to some unsubstantiated negativity.

[Lottie A]

Hello Kiawahdon, as an ex-Revenue Manager of Seabourn and Cunard, I speak from many years of experience when I tell you charters are extremely profitable, not only in net dollars, but also with up-front, non-refundable down-payments. This means the money may be in the bank for many years in advance, and cannot be recalled.

 

I note, with a bit of surprise, that besides Azamara, your other favorite lines that you've listed on your profile are Seabourn and Oceania. I'm sure you're well aware that both of these lines welcome charters and large groups. Note the webpage on my old alma mater: http://www.seabourn.com/corporateIncentives/Main.action?WT.ac=footer_charters

And Oceania Cruises: http://www.oceaniacruises.com/chartersincentives/default.aspx. And for the record, here is our charter webpage: http://www.azamaraclubcruises.com/charters

 

Since you're obviously familiar with, and favor lines which all welcome and operate many charters, why the outrage over our 2016 charters? and why pretend charters are unfamiliar to you, or a sign of financial ruin, when all of your favorite lines welcome them with enough advance notice and the terms are right?

 

I do welcome your posts, Kiawadon. I'm just trying to understand what others are calling 'negativity' and I might call 'curious'. A quick review of your prior posts on CC indicate you are extremely well-versed in the world of stocks and finance. I wonder what your true intention is for the disruptive threads?

 

Best regards,

Bonnie

 

 

I so wish there was a LIKE button on Cruise Critic! :)

[marinaro44]

I so wish there was a LIKE button on Cruise Critic! :)

I think we'd be wearing out that button here if there were one.

 

Brava, Bonnie, for stepping up to the plate and knocking one right out of the park. Love the last sentence, as I've been wondering that myself.

[Riocca]

Interesting to see that there is a thread in the Princess section where Carnival Corp have confirmed that Ocean Princess is up for sale.

 

 

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2014/09/24/49446/small-ship-ocean-princess-to-be-sold.html

 

This was the old R4 so a little older than Quest & Journey, we have been on her a couple of times and enjoyed the experience.

 

A possibility maybe?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[geocruiser]

Interesting to see that there is a thread in the Princess section where Carnival Corp have confirmed that Ocean Princess is up for sale.

 

 

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2014/09/24/49446/small-ship-ocean-princess-to-be-sold.html

 

This was the old R4 so a little older than Quest & Journey, we have been on her a couple of times and enjoyed the experience.

 

A possibility maybe?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

I thought of that too. I was on Ocean Princess when it was called Tahitian Princess. Great ship and a wonderful crew. We did a 14 night cruise to Alaska on her. I hate to see her go.

[need2cruisesoon]

Interesting to see that there is a thread in the Princess section where Carnival Corp have confirmed that Ocean Princess is up for sale.

 

 

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2014/09/24/49446/small-ship-ocean-princess-to-be-sold.html

 

This was the old R4 so a little older than Quest & Journey, we have been on her a couple of times and enjoyed the experience.

 

A possibility maybe?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

I betcha Larry has been contacted by Carnival Corp regarding this ship. Maybe he will catch a flight to Athens when the ship arrives next week for a walk through. Then it's just inspection of the ship and transfer of funds and AZ will have its 3rd R ship.

 

[Phxazzcruisers]

Great reply Bonnie. We have never experience musty rooms on any of our voyages. I, personally am sorry that so many days are chartered, but I am very happy for Azamara that they can sell out and charter so many cruises. It is great financially for the line, and hopefully will bring on board many new frequent cruisers for the future.

I was not happy with some of the changes to the Le Club Voyage program, but am hoping we all get some good news tomorrow.

[Reggiefan]

Because this thread has taken a disturbing turn, I thought I would refrain from making comment. I find it unfortunate that a poster has been challenged for speculative opinion by speculating on his motivations rather than simply offering a well reasoned response.

 

However, the subject raised by this thread is obviously important to many given the emotion this thread has engendered. With regard to the future of Azamara, is the arrow pointed up or down? What is the likelihood of Azamara expanding its fleet? Why is Azamara relying on charters more than other cruise lines--the percentage of cruises chartered by Azamara seems higher than that of other cruise lines? And perhaps most important how highly does the parent company value Azamara and what is the parent company's vision and expectations for Azamara going forward?

 

I do not know the answers to these questions, and I readily concede that I have less knowledge about the industry than many of you. But because Azamara two or three years ago scaled back on the well publicized renovation of its ships, presumably for financial reasons; because Azamara is a small cruise line, especially compared to RC and Celebrity; and because of its recent emphasis on charters, the questions I posed above seem legitimate--especially the last one regarding the parent company's vision for Azamara.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Reggiefan

[Host Jazzbeau]

Interesting to see that there is a thread in the Princess section where Carnival Corp have confirmed that Ocean Princess is up for sale.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2014/09/24/49446/small-ship-ocean-princess-to-be-sold.html

This was the old R4 so a little older than Quest & Journey, we have been on her a couple of times and enjoyed the experience.

A possibility maybe?

 

I had thought of this too. In some ways it would be perfect, as it would keep the Azamara fleet consistent. On the other hand, there is a new 800-lb gorilla in the neighborhood--Viking Oceans--with brand new ships featuring larger cabins and the latest bells and whistles. To secure its long-term future, Azamara really needs to transition from the R-ships to their own new design.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Host Jazzbeau

[kiawahdon]

Because this thread has taken a disturbing turn, I thought I would refrain from making comment. I find it unfortunate that a poster has been challenged for speculative opinion by speculating on his motivations rather than simply offering a well reasoned response.

 

However, the subject raised by this thread is obviously important to many given the emotion this thread has engendered. With regard to the future of Azamara, is the arrow pointed up or down? What is the likelihood of Azamara expanding its fleet? Why is Azamara relying on charters more than other cruise lines--the percentage of cruises chartered by Azamara seems higher than that of other cruise lines? And perhaps most important how highly does the parent company value Azamara and what is the parent company's vision and expectations for Azamara going forward?

 

I do not know the answers to these questions, and I readily concede that I have less knowledge about the industry than many of you. But because Azamara two or three years ago scaled back on the well publicized renovation of its ships, presumably for financial reasons; because Azamara is a small cruise line, especially compared to RC and Celebrity; and because of its recent emphasis on charters, the questions I posed above seem legitimate--especially the last one regarding the parent company's vision for Azamara.

Be careful, you will likely be slammed as I have in stating the obvious-AZ needs to spend about 40+ million and modernize their ships or let the competition preside over the funeral. As Jazzbeau indicates above, the competition is only getting more aggressive for cruise dollars. nI have spent may months on Crystal, Seabourn and Oceania so don't say I am unaware of the competition! There are a lot of choices out there, it seems AZ doesn't realize the landscape

I have spe

[Riocca]

The original proposed changes to LCV sent us as many others off looking at the competition had to offer and to be honest we came back none too impressed.

 

Viking Oceans payment terms were enough to put us off but going further into it and looking at the rendering of the ship we thought it looked like a soulless modern hotel, yes the accommodations are larger than Azamara but there did not seem to be the extra public space considering that there will be 930 passengers and the ship being almost 50,000 tonnes will exclude it from some of the smaller unusual ports that the R ships can get into.

 

Taking this further we could not see this as Azamara, the cozy country club, friendly and casuals atmosphere is, besides the unusual itineraries, what brings us and I am sure many others back.

 

So if Azamara had a new build ship economics say it would have to be of a similar size to Viking Star but if they kept the R ship size I am sure fares would rise into Silverseas / Seabourn territory. To us we love the R ships yes they are aging but with careful refurbishing these classic ships would have many more years life in them.