What's HAL's niche?

[voyageur9]

With other established lines moving to focus on better-defined niches in the cruise market and the arrival of Virgin, it will be interesting to see how HAL's positions itself.

 

Interesting response from Carnival on Virgin. "Can Virgin Group Solve the Cruise Industry's Old-People Problem?"

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-12-05/bransons-virgin-group-aims-to-join-the-cruise-industry

 

Perhaps HAL's niche is older, mid-market plus smokers?

 

Or should it strive for something else?

Edited December 7, 2014 by voyageur9
fixing url

[GlennG]

Holland America Line is a business, - a very successful business that has brought good value to shareholders. Like any successful business, Holland America Line strives to provide a product that appeals to a certain demographic. Currently, that demographic includes senior citizens who are likely members of the large middle class. The HAL brand has built a fiercely loyal customer base, who value a comfortable familiarity during their vacation time. The base also includes a growing tranche of customers who value smoking on the balconies of their staterooms. It's a successful formula for HAL, and I don't see this changing soon.

[bshow]

I have no opinion on Virgin, but the comments on that article are, um, interesting...

[Trevor Fountain]

Holland America Line is a business, - a very successful business that has brought good value to shareholders. Like any successful business, Holland America Line strives to provide a product that appeals to a certain demographic. Currently, that demographic includes senior citizens who are likely members of the large middle class. The HAL brand has built a fiercely loyal customer base, who value a comfortable familiarity during their vacation time. The base also includes a growing tranche of customers who value smoking on the balconies of their staterooms. It's a successful formula for HAL, and I don't see this changing soon.

 

They still allow Smoking on Balconies? Thank you for highlighting this, I almost booked for 2016. I was waiting to see if they would make some sort of reassuring statement about the Dog Lady on the Animaldam, but this is a killer for me. I'll look elsewhere.

Thank you.

[RuthC]

"Old people problem"? :eek:

 

Any business that considers this "old" person a "problem" doesn't need my business---or my money. At my age, financial responsibilities are at a minimum, and discretionary spending is at a maximum.

Come and get it!!! :D

[KirkNC]

Yes, in fact according to a USA Today article HAL is the last "major line" to do so.

[iancal]

We are retired and are travelling twice a year. Most of the trips are land trips with a bookended a cruise, sometimes two cruises.

 

HAL is not doing much to attract our dollar. From our perspective they are loosing 'value competitiveness' to other lines in both the mass market of the Princesses and Celebritys and the premium market of the Oceanias and Azamaras. By that I mean when we compare prices to our list of preferences, either by ship or cruise line attributes, HAL no longer seems to end up in first or second place. Not on price alone, but the combination of price and our preferences.

 

Having said that, if we were booking a Caribbean cruise for this month, HAL would win hands down because of price, ship, and our preferences.

Edited December 7, 2014 by iancal

[dot73]

There will always be "old people"!!! In fact, there will be more and more of them. I have been cruising on HAL (and other ships) since I turned 40. Since I live in a big city, have a stressful job and a long commute, HAL offers a perfect "rest and relaxation" vacation for me. I find that once I step on a HAL ship, all my stress just leaves me. Sometimes I become so relaxed that my brain seems to go into a neutral mode. After an extremely stressful year, my NA cruise in January is just what I need to get 2015 started off right. HAL provides me with exactly what I need for a stress-free vacation.

 

When I want a more energetic cruise with good excursions and a great itinerary, I will choose Princess, which, IMHO, comes close to HAL with food and service. This summer, I sailed for 2 weeks from Venice on the RCI Splendour with my mother. I picked the ship because my mother couldn't agree on HAL or Princess for the itinerary. The itinerary was fantastic and we really enjoyed our ports. However, when on the ship, we found ourselves comparing the food and service to HAL and we will probably never sail on RCI again.

 

The majority of my cruises are as a solo. I am excited that the new HAL ship will have single cabins.

[voyageur9]

Holland America Line is a business, - a very successful business that has brought good value to shareholders.

 

Agreed the business is successful -- but that's Carnival the mother corp. Whether HAL, the brand, within the larger operation is under-performing or not is difficult to tell from the annual reports.

 

However, I agree with your assessment that HAL has strong loyalty in a segment of the cruise market. Still I wonder if that segment is in serious decline and thus whether it's a 'niche' that makes good business sense going forward?

 

I don't pretend to know the answer but it does seem that HAL's supply far exceeds demand, at least if the current price-cutting is any indication.

Edited December 7, 2014 by voyageur9
typos

[cruisemom42]

There will always be "old people"!!! In fact, there will be more and more of them. I have been cruising on HAL (and other ships) since I turned 40. Since I live in a big city, have a stressful job and a long commute, HAL offers a perfect "rest and relaxation" vacation for me. I find that once I step on a HAL ship, all my stress just leaves me. Sometimes I become so relaxed that my brain seems to go into a neutral mode. After an extremely stressful year, my NA cruise in January is just what I need to get 2015 started off right. HAL provides me with exactly what I need for a stress-free vacation.

 

 

Yes, there will always be "old people" but brands can't stagnate. HAL needs to think about what the "old people" of tomorrow will expect from a cruise -- and it may not be the same as the expectations of today.

 

My generation, when we retire, are used to having connectivity and all that it brings with it. (Most of us don't regard it as "stressful" to remain connected.) And we are used to staying in hotels and resorts that make it as easy as possible for us to enjoy that vacation -- whether that means being able to check our bill, view photos, make reservations, order room service or wine for dinner from our cabins, or other similar things.

 

Many of us are also used to having relatively easy access to very good quality food, wine, and entertainment. If the cruise lines -- all of them -- don't start to adapt to that, they run the risk of becoming rather like the Catskills, e.g., something your parents did but not really a vacation you'd consider....

[USN59-79]

A niche that HAL has is longer cruises to interesting places. We have only cruised on HAL ships 16 times, but that an average of about 30 days per cruise. Most other cruise lines emphasize the 5-7 day cruises with two weeks being a long one.

[iancal]

cruisemom42 is RIGHT ON with her comments. Hopefully HAL's new management will heed her comments.

 

If HAL remains in neutral for much longer they will be not be looking across at other cruise lines from the drivers side window....they will be looking at them far ahead from the windscreen.

 

And this may already be the case for some potential customers who have no loyalty to a particular cruise line.

 

 

That is exactly where we are in the demographic scale and it exactly how we feel about vacations and about cruises in particular.

Edited December 7, 2014 by iancal

[KirkNC]

cruisemom42 is RIGHT ON with her comments. Hopefully HAL's new management will heed her comments.

 

If HAL remains in neutral for much longer they will be not be looking across at other cruise lines from the drivers side window....they will be looking at them far ahead from the windscreen.

 

And this may already be the case for some potential customers who have no loyalty to a particular cruise line.

 

 

That is exactly where we are in the demographic scale and it exactly how we feel about vacations and about cruises in particular.

 

I agree, HAL must continue to adapt and seems to be behind where technology is concerned. They do have some great itineraries and we always find their crew to be among the best.

[dot73]

I have nothing against technology and own a lot of gadgets myself. However, I worry that eventually with better and cheaper internet on ships, there will be no escape from the constant noise of people conducting personal and work-related business in all areas of a cruise ship. It's irritating enough to have phones going off in theatres, public transit, etc. without not being able to escape it on holidays. Hopefully, the ships will have designated cell phone areas, such as they now have smoking areas. The commuter trains in the Greater Toronto Area have a designated area (the upper level of trains) that are "quite zones" for people who want to nap in the morning or just relax after a stressful day on the job. They can still use their electronics as long as the sound is turned off. This is something that eventually cruiselines will have to deal with as more people want to be able to use technology 24/7 at a cheaper rate than now. Just my opinion.

[sail7seas]

I don't think HAL has a niche. I think they are trying to be all things to all people.

 

[iancal]

It is not just about the lagging technology for us....there are many other areas where HAL seems to be stuck in neutral when compared to other lines. We do not think that it is a gadget issue to be able to check our account on line or see what the menus are at various dining venues, place orders, make various reservations. Or have a choice of more than one specialty dining option.

 

For us, this is something that we have come expect from hotels, resorts, and most cruise lines because of their offerings. These are not unique industry offerings. They have become industry standard and my generation certainly has an expectation that they will be present. Absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with cell phones or cell phone access....especially since we do not travel with a cell phone.

 

At least it is for us, in our early sixties with no loyalty to any one line and the financial resources to travel frequently.

Edited December 7, 2014 by iancal

[sail7seas]

It is not just about the lagging technology for us....there are many other areas where HAL seems to be stuck in neutral when compared to other lines. We do not think that it is a gadget issue to be able to check our account on line or see what the menus are at various dining venues, place orders, make various reservations. Or have a choice of more than one specialty dining option.

 

For us, this is something that we have come expect from hotels, resorts, and most cruise lines because of their offerings. These are not unique industry offerings. They have become industry standard and my generation certainly has an expectation that they will be present. Absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with cell phones or cell phone access....especially since we do not travel with a cell phone.

 

At least it is for us, in our early sixties with no loyalty to any one line and the financial resources to travel frequently.

 

 

 

I get the sense some think it's a 'them' and an 'us'. In many cases, we are you. Just because we have lived more years than others here does not mean we do not want at least some of the things you want. It is very important to me to be able to connect with whatever device I am using quickly and easily. I won't stay at a hotel that does not offer WiFi.

 

Remember if the young 'uns are really lucky they will live to be old one day. There is only one way to not grow old. :rolleyes:

 

Those of us now retired are HAL past and present, we are not their future but in order to assure a future, they need to produce in the present.

 

 

[iancal]

It is not just that HAL has been stuck in neutral for quite some time.

 

They also seem to be sliding backwards in terms of staffing and ship maintenance. The latter is probably because of their aging fleet. Some engineering systems loose efficiency over time-especially in areas on vessels where cabins have been added to areas not initially designed for cabins.

 

Hopefully there will be newer ships in the near future.

Edited December 7, 2014 by iancal

[WisRiver]

I will jump into this discussion about the HAL niche. It seems to me a large part of the formula as to who is on the ship is the destination. We just finished a 16 day cruise on the Prinsendam in the Black Sea in October, 2014. There were only a handful children on board. The passengers tended to be older (55+), although were younger people on board. This was a not a sun, sea and beach cruise.

 

We have been on three repositioning cruises of 16-34 days and all tended to have older passengers. People who do these cruises have to have more time. However, when we did an Alaska cruise in the late spring, the passenger mix was totally different. More children, more families and a more diverse passenger mix.

 

We have always booked veranda cabins, I personally have never been bothered by smokers. I am not wedded to any cruise line or ship. For me the itinerary is the most important factor

[Viesczy]

The 'old people' problem is directed towards the commonly accepted idea that cruises are heaven's waiting room and not really at a line.

 

The industry itself is doing a great job in showing that there is much more going on a cruise than Ben-Gay shiatsu massages and dodging roller-lators while on board.

 

HAL's niche is most correctly defined to me as those who are in pursuit of a relaxing, fun time w/o the hindrances and annoyances of a fraternity/sorority mixer.

 

FWIW we sail HAL for their itineraries, accepting that there is often less life. Now if there was the exact same itinerary on HAL and another line... HAL might not get the nod depending on price and sail date.

[Laminator]

Although you see these incredibly low fares offered they in fact are a marketing ploy from HAL. The $199 fare is ONLY if you let HAL choose your cabin. If you want to choose the cabin it's $459 on the Maasdam

 

The $229 and $299 fares on the Westerdam wind up being $579 or $659. Those low prices offered are only if you choose to let HAL pick your cabin.

 

From all of the posts on CC it appears that the vast majority of HAL cruisers are seasoned travelers. They want a specific room, a specific deck and/or a specific area (forward, mid, aft).

 

After doing some dummy bookings, trust me I am an expert at dummy, it appears that 17 cabins are available at these low prices on the Westerdam cruise. If there were 100 cabins available HAL would need to be concerned. 17 not so much. Especially when the cruise also shows all Verandah, Signature Suite and Neptune Suite cabins sold out.

[iancal]

We almost always go for a balcony gty on all cruises...unless we can swing a better value on a pick your own. Only once have we asked to be put back in the gty pool in order to secure a better cabin. And we got a much better one.

Edited December 8, 2014 by iancal

[FredT]

Interesting.

 

Whats's HAL's niche? I would say it's interesting itineraries at reasonable prices. They go to far more exotic places than many of the other mainstream lines, stop at far more ports on any given itinerary, and are priced far less than the Azumara's, and Oceania's.

 

As far as the "demographics" go, I think that that is more a factor of their itineraries than "wanting" to be the cruise line that caterers to an older crowd. (Younger passengers and families can not generally take the time off to do the 14 - 30 day cruises that HAL pushes.)

 

with 26 cruises under our belts, we choose a destination, THEN compare itineraries (Who stops the most, for how long, and what ports) THEN compare the pricing. On each of the past three cruises, HAL has won, hands down.... (Thats a pretty good record for them if you ask me!)

[Katie333]

I may sound like I am quoting the brochure, but I think HAL is "traditionally elegant", and making attempts to modernize slowly. The ships are smaller, feel more intimate and it's not a Carnival party-type atmosphere. It's definitely a great line if you like a more traditional look and feel, and enjoy rest and relaxation along with warm service and good food and drink.

 

While there are some technology enhancements where HAL lags behind, I think it's great they introduced the 'dive-in' and the BB King Blues club - both which seem to well received by a variety of age groups and interests.

 

More and more, ships are becoming the destination. I think HAL does not strive for this, and continues to focus more on interesting and diverse itineraries.

[drgrinch]

My cruising experience is limited to a handful thus far but I must say that I really appreciate what HAL is selling. I would define it as quiet and relaxed (and yes, that does attract an older demographic) cruising in relatively spacious cabins, pretty good food, scenic itineraries, attractively (not garish) appointed ships with unfailingly courteous staff. All this at a mid-level price is hard to beat in my book.

 

I am concerned about HAL's trend towards larger and larger ships - I love the smaller mid-sized ships that HAL sails. To me the trade off of smaller size at the expense of some features and activities is a very favorable one (especially at embarkation, disembarkation and tendered ports).