Are smaller cabins princess's new demographic?

[LabGuy64]

Hi,

 

I was thinking about how Princess decided to design several of the latter "Grand" class ships as well as Royal and Regal without "Grand Suites" and was wondering what people thought about it?....I know it really does not matter to most cruisers as there are only 2 Grand class cabins even on the ships that have them..

But, do you think Princess is moving away from "Luxury Suite" cruising?....Was thinking they might be moving to something like interiors and the rest all Balcony level cabins.....I don't know...it just seems that the other lines seem to be adding butlers and other Luxury items but, Princess FEELS like it is slowly going another dierection........or am I totally nuts?

[M4dC0w]

They are more looking at the biggest bang for the buck, maximize balconies, maximize number of staterooms, maximimize specialty serrvices.

 

thats why the promenade and central staircase are missing, more cabins more people to spend money

[LabGuy64]

You see a move like that as good or bad?....most lines are seemingly going the otherway

 

 

They are more looking at the biggest bang for the buck, maximize balconies, maximize number of staterooms, maximimize specialty serrvices.

 

thats why the promenade and central staircase are missing, more cabins more people to spend money

[Thrak]

Hi,

 

I was thinking about how Princess decided to design several of the latter "Grand" class ships as well as Royal and Regal without "Grand Suites" and was wondering what people thought about it?....I know it really does not matter to most cruisers as there are only 2 Grand class cabins even on the ships that have them..

But, do you think Princess is moving away from "Luxury Suite" cruising?....Was thinking they might be moving to something like interiors and the rest all Balcony level cabins.....I don't know...it just seems that the other lines seem to be adding butlers and other Luxury items but, Princess FEELS like it is slowly going another dierection........or am I totally nuts?

 

You may be a bit nuts if you look to Princess for Luxury Cruising. If you want luxury look to a different line.

[LabGuy64]

Well, i don't mean luxury cruising in the like Crystal and the like but, all the major lines have had "luxury suites" and while some lines have better...the Grand Suites are very nice.....it just seems that princess id doing something....different

 

You may be a bit nuts if you look to Princess for Luxury Cruising. If you want luxury look to a different line.

[Loonbeam]

As always, it comes down to the dollars. Princess feels they can make more money in this configuration. Are they right? Who knows, a lot depends on the economy and many other factors.

 

That said, Princess did add a Concierge lounge on the new builds, so that must be something people wanted. In all honestly, I see smaller suites with enhanced amenities as better ideas than the super suites. Someone on Disney told me the two big suites on the dream are actually booked only about 1/2 the time, the rest are upgrades or upsells. If that holds true on other lines....

[Woobstr112G]

I for one would like to see suites be as big as the ones on the Crown/Grand ships. The suites on the Royal/Regal, especially the Owner's Suites, are a joke. The only thing I would change is to give the suites their own identity (i.e. a more upscale design).....:):):)

 

Bob

[Colo Cruiser]

Taking the upcoming butchering of the Island Princess in May, it is a prime example of not caring about passengers wants but how to cram more passengers on a ship at any cost. :(

[LabGuy64]

Sorry,

 

had not heard about this...what specifically is being done?

 

 

 

Taking the upcoming butchering of the Island Princess in May, it is a prime example of not caring about passengers wants but how to cram more passengers on a ship at any cost. :(

[Colo Cruiser]

Sorry,

 

had not heard about this...what specifically is being done?

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2127734&highlight=island+princess+dry+dock

[LabGuy64]

I happen to be a fan of the big suites myself....some say they do not spend much time in the cabin but, there it just something about coming in at night to the big suites.....not to mention the bathrooms...I HATE SMALL SHOWERS!!!...I am 6'8" and at 50yrs will not pay money to me in a footlocker.... lol

 

 

I for one would like to see suites be as big as the ones on the Crown/Grand ships. The suites on the Royal/Regal, especially the Owner's Suites, are a joke. The only thing I would change is to give the suites their own identity (i.e. a more upscale design).....:):):)

 

Bob

[Cruise Junky]

Taking the upcoming butchering of the Island Princess in May, it is a prime example of not caring about passengers wants but how to cram more passengers on a ship at any cost. :(

 

That just about sums it up.

[Roses2]

We may be looking at the results of the recent Carnival corporate reorganization and there may be a conscious move to shift the demographics of Carnival, Princess, and Holland America. Notice the word MAY! since we as passengers are the beholders and we often have misinterpreted Carnival corporate management moves.

 

It is obvious that Princess' move to 3-4-5 day cruises marks more of a major change in its demographic outreach than the change in the top tier suite level. This appears to compete more on the Carnival Line level than with Holland America.

 

From review of some of the postings on the Princess boards, there also appears to be more "non traditional' posts that reflect more Carnivalization of the subjects.

 

We always have been pleased with Premium, Vista, and dare I say it, even Window Suites. With only two Suites at the Owner's, Grand level, yield management may well see additional suites at lower levels easier to sell and therefore creating more yield.

 

Only time will tell what management has in mind, whether it is permanent or temporary, or whether it will lead to a real change in the demographic.

[geoherb]

I've never been tempted to book a suite on Princess. As someone here once said, it's better to upgrade your ship than to upgrade your cabin. We had an upsell offer for our 3-day cruise last week that would have put us in a penthouse suite for $199 more per person. I turned them down. The great thing was that we ended up in an accessible cabin. We loved the huge shower and the extra space.

[Sam.Seattle]

The small balconies on the suites is simply terrible...

[SoCal Cruiser78]

The small balconies on the suites is simply terrible...

 

I am surprised at how small some of them appear. If I were paying for a suite on a warm-weather cruise, I would expect a balcony large enough to have reclining lounge chairs for all occupants, plus a dining table with upright chairs for all.

[dmwnc1959]

It is obvious that Princess' move to 3-4-5 day cruises marks more of a major change in its demographic outreach than the change in the top tier suite level. This appears to compete more on the Carnival Line level than with Holland America.

 

Only time will tell what management has in mind, whether it is permanent or temporary, or whether it will lead to a real change in the demographic.

 

 

Celebrity Cruises has also been doing these seasonal, short 4- and 5-night cruises out of Florida for at least four years, and a year or two before Princess Cruises first announced that they would be doing them on a regular basis beginning with Ruby Princess out of Fort Lauderdale - which, by the way, only take place in the 'off-season' - and I also presume it was to reach out to a new demographic. I'm not sure if the Celebrity Cruises move was to compete with Carnival Cruise Lines as you have indicted as the possible reason for Princess Cruises entry into this market, or just a strategic placement of their fleet, since their ships were mostly all congested in Caribbean and they needed some 'getaway cruises' to satisfy a need that, at the time, they didn't have ships fulfilling.

 

It's a smart move actually; there's money to be had, and customers to attract in the short cruises, some that may never had thought to cruise a more 'upscale' cruise line, and may then return for longer cruises next time around.

 

:D

[Woobstr112G]

The small balconies on the suites is simply terrible...

 

Taking the upcoming butchering of the Island Princess in May, it is a prime example of not caring about passengers wants but how to cram more passengers on a ship at any cost. :(

 

.....:):):)

 

Bob

Edited January 9, 2015 by Woobstr112G

[LabGuy64]

The real problem is that with Royal and Carnival gobbling up all the lines they really start to lose individuality.

No one can doubt that Carnival has been a sucess....catering to the younger demographic and somewhat...lower income cruiser has made them a powerhouse and allowed them to buy up alot of higher end lines....

 

The issue being that once they get ahold of the other lines they see that the bottomline is not as strong as with Carnival so, they start to "tweek" what they think are little things until the lines start looking very similar....eventually the only differences will be the way the ships are painted and maybe some interior features.....of course, from what i understand...Carnival has upped their game a tad ...not SURE...never cruised Carnival...just heresay

 

Celebrity Cruises has also been doing these seasonal, short 4- and 5-night cruises out of Florida for at least four years, and a year or two before Princess Cruises first announced that they would be doing them on a regular basis beginning with Ruby Princess out of Fort Lauderdale - which, by the way, only take place in the 'off-season' - and I also presume it was to reach out to a new demographic. I'm not sure if the Celebrity Cruises move was to compete with Carnival Cruise Lines as you have indicted as the possible reason for Princess Cruises entry into this market, or just a strategic placement of their fleet, since their ships were mostly all congested in Caribbean and they needed some 'getaway cruises' to satisfy a need that, at the time, they didn't have ships fulfilling.

 

It's a smart move actually; there's money to be had, and customers to attract in the short cruises, some that may never had thought to cruise a more 'upscale' cruise line, and may then return for longer cruises next time around.

 

:D

[dmwnc1959]

The real problem is that with Royal and Carnival gobbling up all the lines they really start to lose individuality.

 

The issue being that once they get ahold of the other lines they see that the bottomline is not as strong as with Carnival so, they start to "tweek" what they think are little things until the lines start looking very similar....eventually the only differences will be the way the ships are painted and maybe some interior features...

 

 

 

I would rather have some of the cruise lines lose some of their 'individuality' than lose them all together, which is what would have happened to a good many of them without the influx of capital from the Carnival Corporation or Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.

 

And with a consolidation of product resources, suppliers, and hull platforms, they are also able to keep costs low, which greatly benefits the consumer. No one wants to see entry-level prices for all 7-night Caribbean cruises at what Azamara asks.

 

Sure, most all of the new-builds look like floating block-houses with different exterior paint jobs and smokestacks, but their interiors are still quite different, even if Carnival Cruise Lines has become more toned-down recently in its decor. Princess Cruises will never really look like Holland-America, Costa, or P&O, and Celebrity Cruises won't ever look like RCI, even though the latter two may share some design similarities as evident with the new Quantum of the Seas interiors.

 

As for suites: I've always read that NCL does it best, especially with their large, segregated, real estate gobbling Haven and dining areas exclusively for suite-guests only. What does that say about high-end suites and the demographic NCL is aimed at?

 

:D

[Pam in CA]

Follow the money. Always.

 

The Royal and Regal have more balcony cabin types than the Grand-class ships but there are no oceanview cabins. Princess can command higher fares for balconies than they can oceanviews. On the other hand, the Royal/Regal have far more of the larger "sideways" inside cabins.

 

To be honest, I didn't feel that my balcony cabins on the Royal were smaller than comparable cabins on the Grand-class ships I've sailed on.

[LabGuy64]

I DISAGREE ON MANY POINTS...

First, I don't think that lines that would have faltered should be saved..it shows a lack in their offeing to the marketplace...perhaps that portion of the market share could go to a new more dynamic company.

 

Second, I don't see the price skyrocketing if all the lines are not amalgamated.....there was good pricing in the marketplace before RCI and Carnival started buying up everything.....on the contrary the lack of competition will discourage innovation and allow price manipulation between the few remaining companies.

 

and as for NCL...i have read really mixed reviews in the "Haven"....not sure that it is a success....

 

and last, there has not been enough time to show if the lines will retain any individuality...on a corporate time line this is a very new thing, they have not even finished consolidation yet...needs another 30-50 years to see the full effect.

 

I would rather have some of the cruise lines lose some of their 'individuality' than lose them all together, which is what would have happened to a good many of them without the influx of capital from the Carnival Corporation or Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.

 

And with a consolidation of product resources, suppliers, and hull platforms, they are also able to keep costs low, which greatly benefits the consumer. No one wants to see entry-level prices for all 7-night Caribbean cruises at what Azamara asks.

 

Sure, most all of the new-builds look like floating block-houses with different exterior paint jobs and smokestacks, but their interiors are still quite different, even if Carnival Cruise Lines has become more toned-down recently in its decor. Princess Cruises will never really look like Holland-America, Costa, or P&O, and Celebrity Cruises won't ever look like RCI, even though the latter two may share some design similarities as evident with the new Quantum of the Seas interiors.

 

As for suites: I've always read that NCL does it best, especially with their large, segregated, real estate gobbling Haven and dining areas exclusively for suite-guests only. What does that say about high-end suites and the demographic NCL is aimed at?

 

:D

[LabGuy64]

Well, that was not really my point.....and the difference between a C1 or C2 is not really enough to make them separate types...my my point was more standardization....even in size a balcony isn't much different than a mini suite.....the larger suites as well....there is not really that much difference between the Vista penthouse and owners suites on say the Ruby princess....some in appointments..but the differences are getting smaller

 

Follow the money. Always.

 

The Royal and Regal have more balcony cabin types than the Grand-class ships but there are no oceanview cabins. Princess can command higher fares for balconies than they can oceanviews. On the other hand, the Royal/Regal have far more of the larger "sideways" inside cabins.

 

To be honest, I didn't feel that my balcony cabins on the Royal were smaller than comparable cabins on the Grand-class ships I've sailed on.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

If I were designing a cruise ship, I would do something with suites that some hotels do. Have groups of cabins designed so that they can be booked together as a suite, with doors and balcony partitions between them opened or removed, and beds that convert to sofas, etc. These same cabins could also be "closed up", and sold individually if nobody booked them as a suite.

 

I realize there are a few ships with family suites and adjoining cabins on Princess, but I am talking about something on a grander scale. These would be top-category deluxe balcony cabins or mini-suites booked alone, and full suites when three or four were booked together that were designed with that in mind, perhaps off a private hallway.

 

This would eliminate large suites sometimes sailing empty, or filled only via discounted upsells.

 

To the OP's point, this would standardize room sizes to keep the bean counters happy, yet give affluent pax the ability to book as large a suite (and balcony) as wanted.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Ryndam2002
clarity

[dmwnc1959]

I wonder where Princess Cruises, Holland-America Line, Cunard Line, P&O Cruises (both the UK and Australia brands), Seabourn Cruise Line, Costa Cruises, and Celebrity Cruises would be, or what they would even look like had they survived, without the benefit of the financing made available with their purchase by Carnival Corporation and Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. Would we be better off had they been allowed to stagnate and falter?

 

And had all of those cruise lines mentioned disappeared altogether, and other cruise lines like TUI, AIDA, Azamara Club Cruises - among many others - not allowed to expand or become founded, therefore leaving a lot fewer ships in the market to compete, would the cheap pricing we see now still be the same?

 

And it seems that 'smaller cabins' in general, with smaller balconies, seems to be the 'norm' now for most of the newest designs in large-sized mass market ships, with cruise lines also recognizing the need for single occupancy cabins (some roughly only 100 sq. ft. in size).

 

The Haven seems to be doing well enough that NCL is still incorporating it into all of their new-builds, so if the reviews are mixed, the demand must still be there to warrant the continued implementation.

 

And in 30-50 years I'll be dead, the next two generations of cruisers will be the ones dealing with whatever issues are at hand with 'lost identity' among the multitude of cruise lines, and I won't care. ;)

 

:D