Beverage Package Gratuities Update: 15% to 18%

[Adidas4fun]

Huh? Does your hairdresser make $600 an hour?

 

Oh I see, so unlike the person who said tipping was about appreciation its really about how much they earn.

 

So what is the income threshold below which one should tip?

 

If you tip the bag boy shouldnt you tip the cashier at the drug store too?

[The_Big_M]

Huh? Does your hairdresser make $600 an hour?

 

Huh? You need to subsidise your hairdresser so they earn as much as a doctor?

[The_Big_M]

If tips are a percentage of total cost and the total cost of things rise with inflation would not the amount an employee receives from tips be rising at a similar rate without an increase in %. Many of the rest of us who work for wages get a rise in line with inflation (if we are lucky enough to get a rise in line with the CPI) unless we are promoted etc.

 

Yes, the unanswered question.

 

Well, the answer seemed to be that 'they work so hard.'

 

But then why wasn't this rate appropriate before? And how does that justify this particular rate and not say 50%? 100%? Realistically it can be argued for any rate.

 

I guess the corollary of that is why, if they work so hard for the employer, isn't the employer paying them that as a wage? Again, that reason that 'they work so hard' can be used to justify anything...

[GazW]

...I don't have to, I'm not guilted into it, I'm not subsidizing their income intentionally. - I'm just appreciating their efforts and services and am lucky enough to be able to do so...

 

And that, for me, is EXACTLY what tipping should be all about. Not 'forced' or 'expected'.

 

...I'm betting I'm not the only American doing so.

 

And me not the only Briton either.

Edited February 5, 2015 by GazW
Bad quoting...

[K.T.B.]

Nice to see people haven't started to get silly with comments in who deserves a tip or who doesn't......

 

:rolleyes:

[Presto2]

Have just read this on another post.

 

Is it right that Celebrity now add 18% gratuities?

 

The last time we were there it was 15% and we thought that was high enough.

 

If so we are gob smacked ----

 

:confused::(:eek:

[dedlaw]

I imagine it is based on the norm for Americans, which over the last ten or fifteen years has moved up from 15% to 20%, so 18% may be viewed as gentle.

[ECCruise]

Don't have any problem with certain of the gratuities being raised from 15% to 18%. Like everyone, rising prices are affecting crew members just the same as they are affecting pax. No reason they shouldn't be getting an increase in their income to help combat rising prices.

[Adidas4fun]

Nice to see people haven't started to get silly with comments in who deserves a tip or who doesn't......

 

:rolleyes:

 

Yeh, after all tipping is so rational that logic can be applied to the full extent to all comments about.

 

Silliness would be if tipping behaviours were irrational and the rhetoric couldnt withstand logical questions.

[DirtyDawg]

Don't have any problem with certain of the gratuities being raised from 15% to 18%. Like everyone, rising prices are affecting crew members just the same as they are affecting pax. No reason they shouldn't be getting an increase in their income to help combat rising prices.

 

Of course if the prices of the items being purchased on the cruise ship are going up as well, then the 15% gratuity is also increasing in dollar terms. So and additional increase to 18% is a double whammy to the customers and a double benefit increase for the crew.

 

For example if a $10 drinks has a 15% or $1.50 tip added goes to $11, the tip (at 15%) automatically goes up to $1.65. But if the rate also goes up to 18% the new tip is $1.98! ($11.00 X .18) - a whopping 32% increase over the original $1.50 tip. That's some inflation hedge!:eek:

[Rob the Cruiser]

Many bars and restaurants in the US are starting to use this practice as well. It is called a service fee instead of a tip. If paying with a credit card the service fee may appear on the receipt as a separate line item, or maybe not. I've seen both ways. Astonishingly, there is a space to give a tip as usual. If you are not alert to this disgusting slight of hand you could easily add a tip on top of the bill with service fee.

 

:eek:

[ozarkmama]

I hate the tipping paradigm in general, and wish everyone would be given an appropriate, living wage at the start. It seems to me it has gotten worse over the years rather than better. I am talking about tipping in general; not tipping on cruises. Years ago (ok, maybe I am dating myself, but it was not THAT long ago), a tip of 15% was considered the standard. Except sometimes for large parties, tips were never automatically added to the bill. If a waiter/waitress was exceptional of course you gave more. If I had counter service I was not expected to tip as I was the one going up and getting the food or drink myself.

 

These days, 18-20% is the norm, and automatic tips are not uncommon for parties as small as six. Practically every counter service area I go to has a tip jar out, from Starbucks, to the local gyros joint I frequent. Really?!?! Somehow back when I worked those counters we never even considered getting a tip for working at Kentucky Fried Chicken!

 

Got that off my chest, so back to cruising. I am not happy about having Celebrity add an 18% surcharge automatically to my bill instead of 15%. I was not happy with them adding 15%. I am old school - to me a tip is supposed to be OPTIONAL. If it is not optional it is not a tip, it is a part of the cost that is being used to partially pay for a salary. If it is not optional, let's just include it in the price and the cruise line can allocate it as they see fit. Let's stop pretending, and just call it what it is - part of the price.

 

And before the flames begin, of course I believe the crew deserves to make a decent salary for their hard work, of course I will often tip more for exceptional service, and of course while it is the paradigm I will go along with it so as not to cheat anyone. I just would rather the paradigm change, and I don't like Celebrity deciding 15% isn't good enough anymore. That is a decision I prefer to make on my own for this 'optional' charge.

 

Yes, yes, and yes. I remember my dad leaving his pocket change on the table and that was an acceptable tip. Not sure when it became my responsibility to pay others' wages.

[Presto2]

Many bars and restaurants in the US are starting to use this practice as well. It is called a service fee instead of a tip. If paying with a credit card the service fee may appear on the receipt as a separate line item, or maybe not. I've seen both ways. Astonishingly, there is a space to give a tip as usual. If you are not alert to this disgusting slight of hand you could easily add a tip on top of the bill with service fee.

 

:eek:

 

Hi, coming from the UK (where we already pay 20% VAT) and where we don't 'do' tipping like they do in the USA we too have a space on our receipts where we can add gratuities if we are happy with the service offered.

 

Once on the ship we naturally don't think that we have paid the 18% and automatically think that we should pay an extra 'thank you'. To be honest we always do as it feels more personal as we want to let staff know that we appreciate them.

 

I just suppose it is different cultures clashing so we just go with the flow and am not complaining about the different system - it just means that the cost of a possible Celebrity cruise has risen again.

 

As Celebrity prices have risen quite a lot for us to then have to pay 18% gratuities just sends us back to P&O for 2016 with or without the 123go!

Edited February 5, 2015 by Presto2

[GUT2407]

This has been asked a few times but I can't recall a reasonable reply.

 

If tips are a percentage of total cost and the total cost of things rise with inflation would not the amount an employee receives from tips be rising at a similar rate without an increase in %. Many of the rest of us who work for wages get a rise in line with inflation (if we are lucky enough to get a rise in line with the CPI) unless we are promoted etc.

 

I have no view because as I said I just go with the minimum according to local custom. It just seems odd that the % of bill is rising.

 

Yes the tip goes up with inflation. My wife's wages have gone up less than inflation for the last five years, I'm lucky I set my own fees, if someone doesn't like them they can go elsewhere.

[wwcruisers]

Do we really need two threads going on this topic, at the same time? Maybe the mods could combine them?? :confused:

[GUT2407]

I am only mid 50 s but I remember when the standard tip in e USA was 10% so tips have increased at double the rate of inflation or thereabouts.

[Presto2]

Do we really need two threads going on this topic, at the same time? Maybe the mods could combine them?? :confused:

 

Sorry, didn't know there was another one. Let me know where it is and will be more than happy to check it out. :)

 

Even better - why not just point out where it is to save the mods a job

 

Ta

[NLH Arizona]

Have just read this on another post.

 

Is it right that Celebrity now add 18% gratuities?

 

The last time we were there it was 15% and we thought that was high enough.

 

If so we are gob smacked ----

 

:confused::(:eek:

 

Sure it is alright for Celebrity to do it. I think 20 to 25 percent is pretty much the norm today, at least with me and my friends.

 

Maybe it would sit better with those from non-tipping countries, if Celebrity just added in what ever tip they wanted to the price and just give that price. If a drink is $10 and they add a 20% tip, just call the drink $12 and then no one would be the wiser and no one would complain about how much the tip was, but then there would be a lot complaining about the prices of the drinks. Guess they can never win.

Edited February 5, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[ghstudio]

Sure it is alright for Celebrity to do it. I think 20 to 25 percent is pretty much the norm today, at least with me and my friends.

 

Maybe it would sit better with those from non-tipping countries, if Celebrity just added in what ever tip they wanted to the price and just give that price. If a drink is $10 and they add a 20% tip, just call the drink $12 and then no one would be the wiser and no one would complain about how much the tip was, but then there would be a lot complaining about the prices of the drinks. Guess they can never win.

 

As you know, that's exactly what Celebrity does for cruises that depart from the UK....they just raise the prices by the tip and that's the price.

Edited February 5, 2015 by ghstudio

[NLH Arizona]

As you know, that's exactly what Celebrity does for cruises that depart from the UK....they just raise the prices by the tip and that's the price.

I think they should do it on all cruises and then no one should have an issue, because the price you see, is the price you pay, nothing additional.

[ghstudio]

I think they should do it on all cruises and then no one should have an issue, because the price you see, is the price you pay, nothing additional.

 

That actually makes sense, but Celebrity's drink prices are already pretty much the highest of any cruise line so raising the prices just makes that even worse.

[Terpnut]

Nice to see people haven't started to get silly with comments in who deserves a tip or who doesn't......

 

:rolleyes:

The entire discussion is unresolvable because some people want to rationalize or make sense of what is an inherently flawed and irrational custom.

 

Americans assume and accept that the select service and other industry workers are underpaid, and so we tip to both appreciate extra or superior effort, and to provide what non-tippers call some amount of "wage leveller".

 

People from non-tipping countries persist in trying to dissect, critique, debate and understand something that, ultimately perhaps, they can never understand. ;)

 

I personally agree that it makes sense to pay people a better base salary or wage, and reduce or eliminate the concept of tipping. But in the end, this "system" is merely a fantasy -- an alternative reality that can never be. And so I always conclude with: that's just the way it is whether you like it or understand it. :D

 

So a question for my Aussie and other friends from traditionally non-tipping countries: What is it that you want from this dialogue? Since tipping is discretionary so you don't have to tip the service providers, are you simply torn by your inherent desire to NOT tip? Are you upset by the implied pressure of tipping? Or do you honestly feel that many service people are not worthy of a tip? Or are you simply upset that businesses are paying too low a wage and exploiting this "custom"? It may be customary, but ultimately tipping is usually discretionary so there is generally nothing forcing you to do it. Even the automatic gratuities on most cruise lines can be removed.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Terpnut

[Cruise Junky]

So much drama over a couple of bucks. Going from 15% to 18% is pennies on a drink. Stay home if you find it too much of a burden

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ECCruise]

As you know, that's exactly what Celebrity does for cruises that depart from the UK....they just raise the prices by the tip and that's the price.

 

That's not quite true. They raise the prices by a good deal more than the 15% (or now 18% tip). A couple examples from May, 2014 when we were on an American embarked cruise and a Southampton cruise back to back. Nothing went up only 15% and a lot went up 2 times that much or more. It was annoying watching the prices jump literally overnight.

 

 

All sodas $2.50 to $3.50 (40%)

Beers $5.00 to $6.50 (30%)

Evian 1 l $4.50 to $6.00 (34%)

Mini bar items also raised 30-35%

 

If I trusted them to only raise it by the tip amount, I would be all for it. However, the evidence is different.

Edited February 5, 2015 by ECCruise

[ECCruise]

So much drama over a couple of bucks. Going from 15% to 18% is pennies on a drink. Stay home if you find it too much of a burden

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I see very little drama. One poster. The rest of the posters seem to support the change.