The Jones Act

[sandancer]

Had a big disappointment today when our TA called to say that Celebrity, despite, booking our b2b cruises months ago, have advised them that we cannot board in Seattle, go to Alaska, returning to Vancouver, then go on to Honolulu on the same ship. Evidently Celebrity UK did not flag this up at the time we booked. There is no way round it other than to cancel one of the cruises. Anyone got any ideas how we can deal with this without losing one of our cruises? Thanks

[4774Papa]

Repeal the Jones Act.

[sandancer]

I wish. Coming from the UK we are not exact familiar with US Maritime law. I wish I understood why going from one U.S. Port to another is not allowed.

[hypercafe]

I wish. Coming from the UK we are not exact familiar with US Maritime law. I wish I understood why going from one U.S. Port to another is not allowed.

 

It's because the ship is not registered and flagged in the US. There are a few laws in play that were put in place to protect the US shipping industry, i believe in the 30's. There are lots of ships doing Alaska, maybe you can take one line to Alaska and then X to Hawaii.

[cruzzzinma]

You can book a different ship for the Alaska leg of your trip. Going from one U.S. Port to another is allowed if you don't sail on the same ship.

[tunaman2011]

I wish. Coming from the UK we are not exact familiar with US Maritime law. I wish I understood why going from one U.S. Port to another is not allowed.

 

Greetings

 

It's actually the PVSA (Passenger Vessel Services Act) passed in 1886 that is the problem. And most of us in the USA don't understand why it is still around. It was passed to protect American companies from foreign competition when operating between US ports.

 

You will be on a foreign flagged ship so you run afoul of the law if you sail your desired itinerary.

 

In today's global world the law in out of touch with reality, but it is still on the books and still enforced.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

[Wine-O]

There are a lot of Celebrity/RCCL cruises that go to Alaska. See if you can find one that goes from Seattle to Seattle, then transfer to Vancouver to pick up the ship to Hawaii.

[sandancer]

Thanks everyone for your advice. My TA is investigating alternatives.

[Kamloops50]

Had a big disappointment today when our TA called to say that Celebrity, despite, booking our b2b cruises months ago, have advised them that we cannot board in Seattle, go to Alaska, returning to Vancouver, then go on to Honolulu on the same ship. Evidently Celebrity UK did not flag this up at the time we booked. There is no way round it other than to cancel one of the cruises. Anyone got any ideas how we can deal with this without losing one of our cruises? Thanks

 

There is no way around this combination. These are the only cruise on Celebrity from Seattle that do this. I don't think your TA is going to find solution to this problem.

If you continued on to Sydney after Honolulu you be legal.

[upwarduk]

We fell foul of the same PVSA act when we returned from Hawaii, supposedly to San Diego- we had not visited a distant foreign port.

However, everyone had to disembark in Ensenada, Mexico and be bussed to San Diego. The ship arrived in San Diego before we did. We were told it was to give the American workers jobs. Foreign aircraft are not allowed to carry passengers within the USA either.

[Bo1953]

We fell foul of the same PVSA act when we returned from Hawaii, supposedly to San Diego- we had not visited a distant foreign port.

However, everyone had to disembark in Ensenada, Mexico and be bussed to San Diego. The ship arrived in San Diego before we did. We were told it was to give the American workers jobs. Foreign aircraft are not allowed to carry passengers within the USA either.

 

You got it correct... I had the same issue in the 80's and it took, literally, an act of Congress to permit me to take my ill mother on an Alaska cruise like the OP... and it is very difficult to get Congress to do something like that and some time too... it is a union job protection act along with the Jones Act.

[fla742]

If the ship makes a stop in Vancouver before going to Alaska get permission to board in Vancouver, rather than Seattle. That should satisfy the Jones Act prohibitions.

[little britain]

Had a big disappointment today when our TA called to say that Celebrity, despite, booking our b2b cruises months ago, have advised them that we cannot board in Seattle, go to Alaska, returning to Vancouver, then go on to Honolulu on the same ship. Evidently Celebrity UK did not flag this up at the time we booked. There is no way round it other than to cancel one of the cruises. Anyone got any ideas how we can deal with this without losing one of our cruises? Thanks

 

Basically you cannot board in one US port and disembark in another US port without visiting a distant land! I'm afraid that Vancouver, albeit in a different country is not 'distant' enough.

How about doing an Alaska cruise out of Vancouver, then picking up the cruise to Hawaii from there?

 

I thought that the X booking system flagged up if cruises were contravening this law.

Edited July 8, 2015 by little britain

[cle-guy]

If the ship makes a stop in Vancouver before going to Alaska get permission to board in Vancouver, rather than Seattle. That should satisfy the Jones Act prohibitions.

 

The act requires a visit to a "distant foreign port". Vancouver has been determined to not be "distant" and therefore does not qualify.

 

This act is the reason that "cruises to nowhere" have been stopped, as well why there is just a single major cruise line who does cruises around hawaii - that ship is flagged as US and therefore adheres to all US laws, and pay regulations - which makes it a costly ship to run, and why many cruise lines just don't do around Hawaii trips, and why one can't just do West coast to Hawaii and back, have to stop someplace else, like Ensenada Mexico as other posters have noted.

[BEAV]

A few months ago, someone else posted about this exact same issue (see link below). They, too, wanted to sail Solstice Seattle-Vancouver-Honolulu B2B.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2177353&highlight=pvsa

 

Their "solution" was to instead book RCCL Radiance of the Seas from Anchorage (Seward) to Vancouver, then switch to Solstice Vancouver to Honolulu. Radiance will arrive Vancouver the same day Solstice departs for Honolulu, so no overnight hotel necessary. The fact they are changing ships in Vancouver satisfies the PVSA (Passenger Vessel Services Act) because the language in that law refers only to sailing on the same ship. Changing ships was the key. It's also legal to overnight in Vancouver between sailings, however it's tough (if not impossible) to find one common ship that overnights in Vancouver between sailings.

 

Good luck! ;)

[Wine-O]

The act requires a visit to a "distant foreign port". Vancouver has been determined to not be "distant" and therefore does not qualify.

 

This act is the reason that "cruises to nowhere" have been stopped, as well why there is just a single major cruise line who does cruises around hawaii - that ship is flagged as US and therefore adheres to all US laws, and pay regulations - which makes it a costly ship to run, and why many cruise lines just don't do around Hawaii trips, and why one can't just do West coast to Hawaii and back, have to stop someplace else, like Ensenada Mexico as other posters have noted.

 

Ensenada, Mexico, is not distant, but it qualified as they bussed people to/from from San Diego.

[PoppyandNana]

The act requires a visit to a "distant foreign port". Vancouver has been determined to not be "distant" and therefore does not qualify.

 

This act is the reason that "cruises to nowhere" have been stopped, as well why there is just a single major cruise line who does cruises around hawaii - that ship is flagged as US and therefore adheres to all US laws, and pay regulations - which makes it a costly ship to run, and why many cruise lines just don't do around Hawaii trips, and why one can't just do West coast to Hawaii and back, have to stop someplace else, like Ensenada Mexico as other posters have noted.

 

 

FYI

 

The Jones Act (also known as the Passenger Services Act) prohibits ships of Non-U.S registry from embarking and debarking guests at two different U.S ports. Such travel would constitute point-to-point transportation between two U.S ports, which is prohibited on foreign flagged ships. Note: Puerto Rico and the U.S Virgin Islands (St. Thomas; St. Croix; St. John) are not in the category of U.S ports under this act.

 

The exception to this rule is if the itinerary includes a "distant foreign port". South America and the ABC Islands (Aruba-Bonaire-Curacao) do qualify as distant foreign ports. Canada, Mexico, Central America, Bermuda and most Caribbean Islands do not qualify as distant foreign ports.

 

Any guest who insists on embarking (due to unforeseen circumstances outside the guest’s control, for missing the ship) or debarking (for emergency reasons), which violates the Jones Act, will accept responsibility for any resulting penalties ($300 per person). Important Note: Guests cannot pre-plan or purposely embark or debark a ship in a U.S port that will violate the Jones Act

Edited July 8, 2015 by PoppyandNana

[BEAV]

...................

Edited July 8, 2015 by BEAV
post no longer applicable since PoppyandNana changed/edited their post.

[Barwick Cruiser]

We almost made the same mistake after we booked the Solstice this September for the final cruise to Alaska, departing Seattle and disembarking in Vancouver...we also wanted to stay on the ship to Hawaii and then fly back home from there. Sounds like that is what the OP wants to do. The only alternative we learned about to be able to keep both itineraries on the Solstice was to disembark in Victoria, stay overnight, take the ferry to Vancouver, missing Nanaimo port and then reboard in Vancouver for the Hawaii leg. We figured it was too much hassle but maybe that would work for the OP?

[Cruise Junky]

If the ship makes a stop in Vancouver before going to Alaska get permission to board in Vancouver, rather than Seattle. That should satisfy the Jones Act prohibitions.

 

 

It doesn't unfortunately for the OP there is no way around this. Boarding in Vancouver would have been a solution. They'll need to find another ship for one of the itineraries.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gordoncruickshank]

FYI

 

The Jones Act (also known as the Passenger Services Act) prohibits ships of Non-U.S registry from embarking and debarking guests at two different U.S ports. Such travel would constitute point-to-point transportation between two U.S ports, which is prohibited on foreign flagged ships. Note: Puerto Rico and the U.S Virgin Islands (St. Thomas; St. Croix; St. John) are not in the category of U.S ports under this act.

 

The exception to this rule is if the itinerary includes a "distant foreign port". South America and the ABC Islands (Aruba-Bonaire-Curacao) do qualify as distant foreign ports. Canada, Mexico, Central America, Bermuda and most Caribbean Islands do not qualify as distant foreign ports.

 

I presume that is why our Panama Canal cruise a number of years ago from San Francisco to FL stopped in Columbia and Aruba.

[BEAV]

I presume that is why our Panama Canal cruise a number of years ago from San Francisco to FL stopped in Columbia and Aruba.

 

Correct. Those two ports are designated as "distant foreign" and qualify (make legal) the voyage between SF and Florida.

[zoncom]

Had same problem 2 yrs ago. I kept the Solstice repo to HA. Only Alaska leg that fit was NCL Sun. Really a marginal ship. Find another Line if thats among choices. PVSA will never be cancelled.

Edited July 8, 2015 by zoncom

[TeaBag]

Sorry for your troubles Sandancer. Were you on the Solstice Honolulu - Vancouver 2014?

 

Here is the Vancouver port schedule for Sept

http://www.portmetrovancouver.com/en/about/cruiseandtourism/cruiselineschedules.aspx

 

As far as I can see a solution would be to sail on the Oosterdam (Holland America) Sept 13 - 20, Vancouver return, spend 2 nights in our lovely city and then board the Solstice. Incidentally we're looking at the Solstice too!

[sasset]

OK I will probably get a nerd alert but the Jones Act and the Passenger Vessel Services Act are different laws. The Jones Act regulates cargo ships. PVSA regulates, as the title says, passenger ships.