Frank Del Rio: " . . . the emphasis will continue to be push prices up . . .

[NLH Arizona]

:D There's always Costa! Also owned by Carnival, I think they own it so there is something lower than CCL...

I've been on Costa twice (friends favorite cruise line) and I don't think it is lower than Carnival, I would probably put it in the Carnival, NCL mass market category.

[fshagan]

I 1000% agree with you. Smaller ships (I'd stay around the 2,000 number), no slides or water parks. They can still have children's play areas and programs, but just not the theme park atmosphere that the new mega ships have.

 

A couple of things that Crystal is doing that I really like is that they are (1) building some river cruise ships, two of them I believe, and (2) they will have a 62 passenger yacht which will have all the toys (wave runners, kayaks, 2 person sub, etc.) and will have zodiacs for landings. I think this will bring a lot of new younger customers to Crystal, as well as offering us current passengers other alternatives.

 

Cruise lines have to evolve to stay in business and that includes NCL.

 

NCL has a great crew-to-guest ratio (or whatever they call it) on the Jewel class ships, almost 1 crew member for every two passengers. On the larger ships that drops to 1:3 or 1:4 if I recall correctly. I can understand why mega ships with 4,000+ passengers might be cheaper to use for those "milk runs" to the same ports all the time. I would rather be on a Jewel sized ship like you mention, and forget about all the bric-brac hanging off the top and sides like drop slides, water parks, etc.

 

I'll have to keep an eye out for Crystal's 62 passenger yacht; sounds expensive but might be a great vacation.

[Barb Nahoumi]

Oj has a charge now?

 

I think that freshly squeezed does.

[NLH Arizona]

I think that freshly squeezed does.

 

Yes, freshly squeezed has been for a fee for as long as I can remember.

[MrMan]

Just got off Dawn this morning. I can report overall a good cruise. There was a steak option in MDR every night as well as Prime Rib in Buffet. I can't attest to quality as we ate at specialty nightly. I did notice in future cruise presentation pushing European exotics verses Caribbean milk runs. Also ship does need facelift and brought up to date. 90's called and want their decorator back. FDR is correct in that dollars need to go into ship improvements even to stay competitive with NCL newer offerings.

[hypercafe]

:D There's always Costa! Also owned by Carnival, I think they own it so there is something lower than CCL...

 

Trusting the line when you put a deposit down that things will be as advertised so you can plan your vacation has a lot to with how low they are. Even worse changing after final payment. NCL is at the bottom in this area. Oceania also disappointed many after changing port times after final payment. If you live in a glass house do not throw stones.

[NLH Arizona]

Trusting the line when you put a deposit down that things will be as advertised so you can plan your vacation has a lot to with how low they are. Even worse changing after final payment. NCL is at the bottom in this area. Oceania also disappointed many after changing port times after final payment. If you live in a glass house do not throw stones.

I would say Celebrity is in that list as well. Changed itineraries, adding overnight stays at one port, while cancelling another port to many cruises.

[maywell]

I would say Celebrity is in that list as well. Changed itineraries, adding overnight stays at one port, while cancelling another port to many cruises.

I just purposely book just for the ship and most of the basic amenities along the week(s) I want to take off and hopefully the cruise ship will do the itinerary I like. Sometimes the weather or whatever just wrecks the even the most simplest of plans. [emoji18] Doesn't matter which line - it just happens, plus their contacts covers them too. [emoji10]

 

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[electro]

You might be right but there's also a whole level of customers untapped who simply won't sail on an NCL ship because of perceived nickel and diming.

 

Yes, and this reputation is getting worse with all the changes, not better.

Go read what is said about NCL on other boards on CC. Not much of it is good.

 

I think they are getting further away from the demographic they want to attract, not closer.

It will take more that higher prices and more fees to attract an upscale crowd.

Lois

[NLH Arizona]

Yes, and this reputation is getting worse with all the changes, not better.

Go read what is said about NCL on other boards on CC. Not much of it is good.

 

I think they are getting further away from the demographic they want to attract, not closer.

It will take more that higher prices and more fees to attract an upscale crowd.

Lois

I keep trying to convince my neighbors to cruise with NCL and am losing the battle. It is not because of the nickel and diming, but it is their perceived notion that NCL is at the bottom of the barrel as far as cruise ships, along with Carnival. I can tell them till I'm blue in the face what great experiences I've had, but so far they won't budge. NCL is a mass market budget line, line Carnival, and there are many, many cruise customers who don't want to cruise with them because of how they rank on the cruise ladder. If they could move up to the Princess/Royal Caribbean rung on the ladder, with time, I think my neighbors would give them a try.

 

You are correct, just higher prices is not going to change anyone's perceived notions about NCL. It will take a lot of money spent in upgrading the ships and tons of advertising outlining the changes.

[hypercafe]

I would say Celebrity is in that list as well. Changed itineraries, adding overnight stays at one port, while cancelling another port to many cruises.

 

X made some changes to overnight in some Crib ports. Oceania made port time changes on many leaving early after final payment. It was to save money. They even said it was to stream line their operations. It's a matter of trust and IMO NCLH is on the bottom in that regard.

[cpj]

I keep trying to convince my neighbors to cruise with NCL and am losing the battle. It is not because of the nickel and diming, but it is their perceived notion that NCL is at the bottom of the barrel as far as cruise ships, along with Carnival. I can tell them till I'm blue in the face what great experiences I've had, but so far they won't budge. NCL is a mass market budget line, line Carnival, and there are many, many cruise customers who don't want to cruise with them because of how they rank on the cruise ladder. If they could move up to the Princess/Royal Caribbean rung on the ladder, with time, I think my neighbors would give them a try.

 

You are correct, just higher prices is not going to change anyone's perceived notions about NCL. It will take a lot of money spent in upgrading the ships and tons of advertising outlining the changes.

I was one of those people who would not sail NCL. I finally did and it was one the best experences we have had on a cruise ship. We really enjoyed the free style and the entertainment was way above any thing we ever saw on the other lines. I could not believe I was that closed minded but you live and learn.

[NLH Arizona]

I was one of those people who would not sail NCL. I finally did and it was one the best experences we have had on a cruise ship. We really enjoyed the free style and the entertainment was way above any thing we ever saw on the other lines. I could not believe I was that closed minded but you live and learn.

I was one of those people as well. Sailing on Celebrity and Crystal, I thought NCL was the bottom of the barrel and the food would be awful, crazy drunks all around, etc., that is until I tried them and found out none of that was true.

[littlelulu01]

I just purposely book just for the ship and most of the basic amenities along the week(s) I want to take off and hopefully the cruise ship will do the itinerary I like. Sometimes the weather or whatever just wrecks the even the most simplest of plans. [emoji18] Doesn't matter which line - it just happens, plus their contacts covers them too. [emoji10]

 

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I think all mainstream lines have a reputation of nickel and diming to an extent. That is not new and won't be going away anytime soon. Some more than others. NCL does stand out this past year in the top of the heap with all the confusing changes and add ons.

 

What really gets me though and I've not seen much press about it, is their long standing practice of canceling cruises and what they typically offer cancelled guests when they do it. All lines cancel and redeploy ships. All lines have problems with port times, itinerary changes... And I'm not taking about those things.

 

All lines have very one sided contracts that offer the consumer zero protection when they want to cancel your cruise. Where NCL stands out is in how they typically handle these changes. The biggest redeployment in mainstream cruise line history occurred with NCL in August. They took deposits, advertised and sold their products up till the day prior to canceling 1/3 of the fleet's itineraries. Many of those booked were not given a viable replacement option. They simply told me and thousands of other passengers that the cruise I just paid for was canceled. If I still wanted to purchase a similar cruise on those dates I now needed to pay more than double for a cruise on a similar date. The compensation? $50 obc for non suite and $100 obc for a suite on replacement booking. Yes some passengers were given price protect for a similar sailing and similar date but many more were not.

 

No other line has given such a paltry alternative and all other lines have been willing to work with customers, I'm sure in fear of bait and switch investigations. NCL however simply stands behind their contract and followed through with their new prices while discarding the passengers who they had previously sold the rooms to for a fraction of the cost.

 

There's really nothing out there about this practice and the fact that NCL just got away with a massive dumping of passengers who had recently purchased their dream vacations. There's a few 20 plus pages on these boards about it when it happened and that's it.

 

The customer should know that when NCL cancels a cruise of theirs that they will do far less for them than any other line. That's a big deal when looking into booking a big Europe trip or a vacation that requires advance planning. If that cruise cancellation is on any other mainstream line the company will step up and rebook on a valid alternative sailing along with offering a meaningful obc. If it's NCL there's a very good chance they'll give you $50 obc and the chance to pay twice the price for the new sailing on similar dates.

[NLH Arizona]

 

There's really nothing out there about this practice and the fact that NCL just got away with a massive dumping of passengers who had recently purchased their dream vacations. There's a few 20 plus pages on these boards about it when it happened and that's it.

 

Probably because the news media doesn't feel that it is an issue that they feel is news worthy, since all cruise lines change itineraries and cancel cruises. If they were going to report on anything, I think it would be that NCL has opened up some new cruise itineraries, now that is news worthy.

[LMaxwell]

I keep trying to convince my neighbors to cruise with NCL and am losing the battle. It is not because of the nickel and diming, but it is their perceived notion that NCL is at the bottom of the barrel as far as cruise ships, along with Carnival. I can tell them till I'm blue in the face what great experiences I've had, but so far they won't budge. NCL is a mass market budget line, line Carnival, and there are many, many cruise customers who don't want to cruise with them because of how they rank on the cruise ladder. If they could move up to the Princess/Royal Caribbean rung on the ladder, with time, I think my neighbors would give them a try.

 

You are correct, just higher prices is not going to change anyone's perceived notions about NCL. It will take a lot of money spent in upgrading the ships and tons of advertising outlining the changes.

 

That describes most of my family; Princess and RCI cruisers; all with decent amount of perks with both lines, so they were really hesitant to book NCL for the Escape. We all booked with the "free free" ubp and 3-8th free in cabin which worked out for a lot of us, but none of us would have selected NCL without those promos.

 

If I didn't have a kid now I'd probably not be sniffing around NCL and Carnival either, but they do have family friendly fares and I was satisfied to find many things I preferred over RCI on our short trial sailing. But it was in no way whatsoever upscale. To their credit; they didn't really make any pretense that it was. So, expectations were met.

 

Seems to me right now NCL and MSC are dead aiming at RCI with their new ships and offerings. I don't think they are going to aim for upscale premium in a Celebrity way. The ships are just too big to capture that market, IMO, and NCL is going the wrong way in terms of offering a refined experience.

[hypercafe]

I just purposely book just for the ship and most of the basic amenities along the week(s) I want to take off and hopefully the cruise ship will do the itinerary I like. Sometimes the weather or whatever just wrecks the even the most simplest of plans. [emoji18] Doesn't matter which line - it just happens, plus their contacts covers them too. [emoji10]

 

Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

 

I do not think you would feel the same if you booked a trip of your lifetime say around South Africa. It's after final payment so you arrange private shore excursions in a once in a lifetime port. At the last minute the line tells you that they are now leaving at 3 pm instead of 6 to save money. How would you feel? Would you say "oh well it's in the contract so I will just stay on the ship and eat?"

 

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Edited November 15, 2015 by hypercafe

[sjbdtz]

One thing I haven't really heard much talk about, is the idea that FDR sees NCL as a back-up for Oceania & Regent.

 

That is, rather than seeing NCL as a gateway drug into the higher-end brands, it's instead perceived as a stop-gap for the existing high-end guests.

 

Many of those high-end guests have kids, and grand-kids who would enjoy the NCL mega-ship attributes, but until now the high-end guests wouldn't have necessarily felt at home.

 

Now FDR can say to them: here's luxury when you want it, and here's something similar when you want to hang out with the family.

 

 

The idea of NCL as a gateway to the premium brands makes zero sense to me. I'm probably in their target demographic, but I have no interest in that type of small ship.

 

 

.

[NLH Arizona]

Seems to me right now NCL and MSC are dead aiming at RCI with their new ships and offerings. I don't think they are going to aim for upscale premium in a Celebrity way. The ships are just too big to capture that market, IMO, and NCL is going the wrong way in terms of offering a refined experience.

 

You've been posting on the new non-formal night "evening chic" thread on Celebrity and you would think, by some of those posters, that Celebrity has reached the bottom rung of the cruise latter by this change.

 

I don't think better dishes, flatware or napkins would bring anyone over to the line, they have to show that the overall experience is better. There first step seems to be food and I think they have really enhanced the MDR menus on the Escape and in some of the specialty restaurants, La Cucina in particular. The problem is, I think there ships have too many bells and whistles (rock walls, slides, walk the plank, rope courses, etc.) that many who cruise the premium lines like Celebrity would not be interested in, as they don't want to go to a theme park, they want to go on a cruise with good food, great service (something I think NCL is equal with as far as Celebrity is concerned), good entertainment, etc.

[LMaxwell]

You've been posting on the new non-formal night "evening chic" thread on Celebrity and you would think, by some of those posters, that Celebrity has reached the bottom rung of the cruise latter by this change.

 

I don't think better dishes, flatware or napkins would bring anyone over to the line, they have to show that the overall experience is better. There first step seems to be food and I think they have really enhanced the MDR menus on the Escape and in some of the specialty restaurants, La Cucina in particular. The problem is, I think there ships have too many bells and whistles (rock walls, slides, walk the plank, rope courses, etc.) that many who cruise the premium lines like Celebrity would not be interested in, as they don't want to go to a theme park, they want to go on a cruise with good food, great service (something I think NCL is equal with as far as Celebrity is concerned), good entertainment, etc.

 

That's why I say they are aiming at RCI and not Celebrity.

[NLH Arizona]

That's why I say they are aiming at RCI and not Celebrity.

I think they could compete with Royal Caribbean, but I think it will take a lot of time and money for them to over come the budget stigma they have for many, many years.

[Travelcat2]

One thing I haven't really heard much talk about, is the idea that FDR sees NCL as a back-up for Oceania & Regent.

 

That is, rather than seeing NCL as a gateway drug into the higher-end brands, it's instead perceived as a stop-gap for the existing high-end guests.

 

Many of those high-end guests have kids, and grand-kids who would enjoy the NCL mega-ship attributes, but until now the high-end guests wouldn't have necessarily felt at home.

 

Now FDR can say to them: here's luxury when you want it, and here's something similar when you want to hang out with the family.

 

 

The idea of NCL as a gateway to the premium brands makes zero sense to me. I'm probably in their target demographic, but I have no interest in that type of small ship.

 

 

.

 

Very thoughtful post. I agree that NCL could be considered a "back-up" or alternative to premium or luxury cruisers that wish to cruise with their families. However, I also see NCL as a "gateway" to premium brands for some cruisers.

 

Granted, many younger folks cannot imagine wanting to be on a smaller ship that is sedate and with less things to do, but many find this appealing -- especially when they can take a vacation away from children (their own and others). It seems that people are working more hours than they ever had. There is so little "down time".

 

It has been our experience that the first 2-3 days on a "relaxing" vacation can seem boring. We were still looking to be doing something most of the day and night. However, sometime after the 3rd day we changed and started to enjoy this very different life.

 

Some people - even older ones will always enjoy being on a very active ship while other people - young ones included, find the peace and serenity of being on a luxury cruise ship to be amazing.

[sparks1093]

I think Mr. Del Rio wants to push NCL to compete with premium lines, but I don't think he could compete, unless he changes things drastically (what he is saying about upcoming changes, isn't going to do it), puts a lot of money into advertising and still then, I think it would take NCL many, many years to change the reputation of being a more budget friendly mass market cruise line like a Carnival. Same as the CEO of Celebrity once said that Celebrity is a luxury line, I just figured that he had never cruised on a luxury line and thought premium was luxury, because Celebrity is certainly not a luxury line, IMHO.

 

The problem is it is going to take time to take NCL wherever it is Del Rio wants to take it and in the meantime NCL will look "unfinished" to any new cruiser that sails with them- not quite what NCL was and not quite what it's going to be in the future. Now, the new passengers may be satisfied and if they are that would be a good thing, but if the cruise ends up leaving them dissatisfied then this could be a problem in getting repeat business from them. After all, does one choose Celebrity, a cruise line that is already humming along or do they choose NCL, a cruise line that is having hiccups as they try to fine tune everything?

[littlelulu01]

Probably because the news media doesn't feel that it is an issue that they feel is news worthy, since all cruise lines change itineraries and cancel cruises. If they were going to report on anything, I think it would be that NCL has opened up some new cruise itineraries, now that is news worthy.

 

What they did with the redeployment was newsworthy. How they compensated displaced passengers was evidently not. And they are the only line who has on a massive scale, sold and advertised cruises up till the day before redeployment, taken customers $, and then told them the following day they can no longer have what they just bought but can have something similar for twice the price.

[NLH Arizona]

The problem is it is going to take time to take NCL wherever it is Del Rio wants to take it and in the meantime NCL will look "unfinished" to any new cruiser that sails with them- not quite what NCL was and not quite what it's going to be in the future. Now, the new passengers may be satisfied and if they are that would be a good thing, but if the cruise ends up leaving them dissatisfied then this could be a problem in getting repeat business from them. After all, does one choose Celebrity, a cruise line that is already humming along or do they choose NCL, a cruise line that is having hiccups as they try to fine tune everything?

I don't think it will look unfinished, it is not like they are going to change things that drastically. If they add new dishes, flatware or napkins, I really don't think anyone will really notice, other than those that already cruise on NCL and they will probably enjoy an upgrade, if they notice at all. I think most will appreciate the upgraded food in the MDR and specialty restaurants and not see that as anything other than NCL is changing their menus.

 

As I've said, it is going to take a long time and a lot of money in advertising to change the preconceived notion that NCL is a budget line. I don't think those at Celebrity are going to choose NCL as their line of choice, they might, like me, cruise with them also (but I think most would go to Royal Caribbean before they go over to NCL), but I don't think that cruiser will ever change over to NCL, even with the upgrades NCL is planning. Also, I don't think NCL will have hiccups at every turn as they try to improve thing, I think the only issue will be those long time NCL cruisers that don't want "their line" to change and have issues with the changes or those real budget cruisers who have issues with some of the charges.