Another Parent Not Accepting Responsibility For Their Own Actions

[akcruz]

It is called PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY! You are the parent - 24/7. I don't care if you are 'on vacation' you are still responsible for your child. I cannot believe the lawyer suggested that it was understandable that the parents were in vacation mode, and let their guard down. Seriously? If anything, my maternal instinct increases when away from home - not relaxes!

 

Just how many lifeguards does this woman expect the cruise ship to employ? Because here is an amazing fact - kids can wander in, and drown in the adult pool too. How about the hot tubs? On ships the size of Oasis there are numerous hot tubs. Are we going to have a lifeguard posted at each and every water source 24 hours a day? Or are you going to drain all the pools of water each night?

 

This lawsuit is crazy - simply a way for the parent to relieve some of the guilt she feels for her poor parenting choices. Blame the cruise line, and then I won't feel so bad since it wasn't 'really' my fault. The real victim here is her child who is the one who is suffering the consequences of her carelessness.

Agree. When I saw the comment in the article about relaxing since the parents are on vacation, my first thought was no way, I was much more vigilant with my kids when some place we were not familiar with. Not an excuse at all, and definitely the victim here is the child who will most likely suffer as a result of this incident for the rest of his life.

 

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[rance]

Disney never had lifeguards on their ships until recently. They had a drowning on one of their ships and hired lifeguards soon after.

 

We were on a Disney cruise 4 years ago and they had life guards...so depends on your definition of recently....

[CRUISEFAN0001]

No child under 14 should be unsupervised.

Likely...none under 18....maybe for different reasons...but...

 

In this age of entitlement and lack of accountability for almost anything...you can add the latest few generations of parents who think the village not only has to raise their kids, but also babysit them so that they can continue doing whatever they feel like...good grief...it's bad enough having to get run over by parents with strollers on cruise ships...but now everyone but them has to actually parent their kids? I don't think so.

[rance]

So you guys are saying RC has zero responsibility in this?

 

If I decide to open a pool business tomorrow in my neighbourhood and charge admission, have no oversight into the number of people allowed into the pool and a child drowns I can just shrug my shoulders and say it's the parents responsibility?

 

There is a reason why pools and waterparks have capacity numbers and full time lifeguards on duty. Cost of doing business. RC gambled to save a few bucks. I hope they have to pay a big settlement to this family and have lifeguards around the children's pools. Especially since they were aware of a similar incident on a competitor ship and have done nothing about it.

 

Pools on sea days are dangerous. Cruise lines keep jamming more cabins = more people = more revenue without increasing size of facilities.

[nelblu]

As does Anthem.

 

But you have to use them for them to be effective.

 

And you still have to watch your kids.

 

And Oasis.

[NoWhiners]

Never been on RCI but have been on other lines. I think it is time for all lines to crack down on kids and pools/hot tubs. What with the little tykes running around the side of the pools, diving/jumping in on top of people, clearly not really knowing how to swim so they have to cling to the side of the pool or block the ladders, and the kids wearing diapers, the pool and hot tubs are unusable by adults. Parents can be right there and don't do anything to get the kids to calm down and watch out for others. They also disrupt the hot tubs and even the pool shower. And the adult pool is always tiny and located in the direct sun, which is too much sun for me. The kids pool should be the small one in the back and a bigger pool for adults only.

 

I hate that I sound old and cranky but I am tired of kids running about doing what they want and making it tough for me to enjoy the pool, even for just a quick dip. Last cruise I was on, kid was causing all kinds of ruckus, parents were standing in the pool, drinking beer as fast as they could. I'm sure they need a vacation but they still have to be parents.

 

Ok, rant over, I feel better now :D

 

ML

[chengkp75]

So you guys are saying RC has zero responsibility in this?

 

If I decide to open a pool business tomorrow in my neighbourhood and charge admission, have no oversight into the number of people allowed into the pool and a child drowns I can just shrug my shoulders and say it's the parents responsibility?

 

There is a reason why pools and waterparks have capacity numbers and full time lifeguards on duty. Cost of doing business. RC gambled to save a few bucks. I hope they have to pay a big settlement to this family and have lifeguards around the children's pools. Especially since they were aware of a similar incident on a competitor ship and have done nothing about it.

 

Pools on sea days are dangerous. Cruise lines keep jamming more cabins = more people = more revenue without increasing size of facilities.

 

The problem with your analogy is that you are opening a pool business in the US. RCI's pools are in the Bahamas, so only their liability laws really apply.

 

And even in the US, so long as an establishment posts signage that swimming is at your own risk because there are no lifeguards, this absolves the establishment from liability, and this has been the case, upheld in law, for quite some time.

[mollyeilis]

I am pretty sure the supposed "toddler pool" they are referring to is actually the lazy donut, current pool. Very different from just a shallow, toddler pool.

 

In the article:

 

Ascanio had somehow made it to a nearby current pool where the water was deeper.

 

 

 

Is the lawyer even *trying* to help the families? Seems like he's trying to lose for them...

 

Winkleman represents the Azzia family and others who have lost their children to cruise ship drownings.

 

 

"There is 100 percent an element of parental responsibility involved in this," Winkleman said, adding there are several factors involved on board cruise ships. "But let me tell you, when you're on a cruise ship, your guard is let down. You're on vacation."

 

 

Why don't parents bring the arm floating, a little life jacket or something? It's probably not the best thing, but isn't it better that nothing?

 

Arm floaties can CAUSE drowning. If the child's arms get above his head, it forces the lower part of the face under the water, and children don't have the strength to push themselves back up enough.

 

I guffawed at the concept when I learned it several years back, then in a "the universe said HA" moment, it nearly happened to my son just a week later. Arm floaties, he was in arm's length *behind* me. My brother and I were chatting as he did laps, and from the other end of the pool I saw him looking past me with a horrible expression on his face. I turned, and my son's mouth and nose were under the water with his little arms sticking straight up as he tried to push his arms down against the force of the air-filled floaties. He was utterly, terrifyingly, silent.

 

I reached out, got him. Got him out of the water, made sure he was OK. Then we popped the floaties. Got a proper vest the following day. And since then I've tried to help others children by getting the word out.

 

 

Just to play devils advocate...royal Caribbean markets themselves as a family cruise line in order to compete with the competition like disney.

When we went on disney cruise the pool had a staff of lifeguards on duty.

For the cost of a lifeguard they should have pools supervised.

 

Disney ONLY did it 3 years ago. Before then, they were in line with the standard.

 

Not EVEN 3 years ago. October 2013. http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5596

 

 

I hate that I sound old and cranky but I am tired of kids running about doing what they want and making it tough for me to enjoy the pool, even for just a quick dip.

 

I'm tired of the adults keeping me from that. :)

 

 

So you guys are saying RC has zero responsibility in this?

 

If I decide to open a pool business tomorrow in my neighbourhood and charge admission, have no oversight into the number of people allowed into the pool and a child drowns I can just shrug my shoulders and say it's the parents responsibility?

 

There is a reason why pools and waterparks have capacity numbers and full time lifeguards on duty. Cost of doing business. RC gambled to save a few bucks. I hope they have to pay a big settlement to this family and have lifeguards around the children's pools. Especially since they were aware of a similar incident on a competitor ship and have done nothing about it.

 

Pools on sea days are dangerous. Cruise lines keep jamming more cabins = more people = more revenue without increasing size of facilities.

 

As the other poster said....US vs Bahamas.

 

I hope they do NOT get a settlement. The family lost track of this child long enough for him to leave where they had left him and move into a whole other body of water. What lifeguard could have prevented THAT?

[reallyitsmema]

We were on a Disney cruise 4 years ago and they had life guards...so depends on your definition of recently....

 

Well, you might want to check your cruise history because they did not have lifeguards four years ago.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5596

[2CatsInFlorida]

Just to play devils advocate...royal Caribbean markets themselves as a family cruise line in order to compete with the competition like disney.

When we went on disney cruise the pool had a staff of lifeguards on duty.

For the cost of a lifeguard they should have pools supervised.

 

Yes the parents should be watching but RC doesn't restrict the amount of people in the pools and even the most vigilant of parent can always lose track of child in a pool over capacity (only takes a minute).

RC wants the family $ they build the pools then wash their hands of the amount of people in them and their safety...they can't have it both ways.

 

 

I agree RCI should have lifeguards, just as I would expect lifeguards at a kids summer camp. No parent can be 100percent vigilant all the time and lifeguards would be a fail safe measure.

 

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Edited April 3, 2016 by 2CatsInFlorida

[Aquahound]

We were on a Disney cruise 4 years ago and they had life guards...so depends on your definition of recently....

 

I'd consider September 2013....2 years 7 months ago....fairly recent.

 

No parent can be 100percent vigilant all the time and lifeguards would be a fail safe measure.

 

You think lifeguards are fail safe?

Edited April 3, 2016 by Aquahound

[Sunkissed Mommy]

I'm the mom of a 3 year old. I also happen to live in Florida, so I am well aware of the dangers of swimming pools and water everywhere. We chose to enroll our son in something called ISR at a very young age. The program teaches survival water skills. After 6 weeks of lessons (5 days per week) my son could swim and float all by himself. This was nearly two years ago and he's still swimming strong.

 

BUT I would still spend every moment in the water with him even though he's an amazing swimmer. I just don't understand the mentality of some. Maybe it is the drinks/sun/ vacation that makes people drop their guard. I don't know. My son is priority number one for me.

 

I think a lot of people definitely want to blame others, especially in tragic situations. No one wants to be the one to blame.

[Peachy59]

When our daughter was small we went on many vacations that involved hotel pools, condo pools, cruise ship pools and beaches. There were never lifeguards. Even if there had been, we would never let her out of our sight ,even though she was an excellent swimmer by the age of six. She was actually snorkeling at that age. She even became a lifeguard at our county rec center at age 16. There is just no excuse for not watching your kids. Of course we didn't let her do a lot of things I see parents letting their kids get away with now! I do think they should have a limit on the amount of people in the pools, though.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

Is the lawyer even *trying* to help the families? Seems like he's trying to lose for them...

 

My guess is he will be trying the "see, it could happen to you" approach so that the jury will take his side. Assuming it gets that far.

[mooseman52b]

So you guys are saying RC has zero responsibility in this?

 

In this case NONE.

 

I do feel bad for the family, but your children are your responsibility. If we felt the situations were unsafe we removed our kids from the hazard.

 

All of my children could swim well at an early age and we would never leave them alone in a pool or any body of water larger than a bath tub when they were younger. Another reason to not leave your children unsupervised is that they could be molested or bullied.

 

Now when a cruise line has assumed responsibility for our children (supervised kids areas) they could be held responsible.

Edited April 3, 2016 by mooseman52b

[CI66774]

Never been on RCI but have been on other lines. I think it is time for all lines to crack down on kids and pools/hot tubs. What with the little tykes running around the side of the pools, diving/jumping in on top of people, clearly not really knowing how to swim so they have to cling to the side of the pool or block the ladders, and the kids wearing diapers, the pool and hot tubs are unusable by adults. Parents can be right there and don't do anything to get the kids to calm down and watch out for others. They also disrupt the hot tubs and even the pool shower. And the adult pool is always tiny and located in the direct sun, which is too much sun for me. The kids pool should be the small one in the back and a bigger pool for adults only.

 

I hate that I sound old and cranky but I am tired of kids running about doing what they want and making it tough for me to enjoy the pool, even for just a quick dip. Last cruise I was on, kid was causing all kinds of ruckus, parents were standing in the pool, drinking beer as fast as they could. I'm sure they need a vacation but they still have to be parents.

 

Ok, rant over, I feel better now :D

 

ML

 

While I agree only those people (both adults and kids) who can swim should be allowed to use the "regular" pools and no kids with diapers should be allowed, of course, I disagree kids who can swim shouldn't be permitted to swim. The general isn't an adult pool. If you want an adult pool go the adult-only pools/hot tubs. The kids pay the same fare as any adult and should be allowed to use the pools if the cruise line permits.

[Aquahound]

I think it is time for all lines to crack down on kids and pools/hot tubs. What with the little tykes running around the side of the pools, diving/jumping in on top of people, clearly not really knowing how to swim so they have to cling to the side of the pool or block the ladders, and the kids wearing diapers, the pool and hot tubs are unusable by adults.

 

Yeah, right. This is 2016....the age of raising little narcissists by parents who think "no" is a bad word. Could you imagine the backlash from one of these parents if a staff member actually steps up to correct bad behavior? :eek:

 

I do agree with you though. ;)

[cello56]

Again I ask - exactly 'which' bodies of water should RCI put lifeguards at?

Just the children's pool areas?

Add in the adult pools?

Each and every hot tub?

What about at night? Drain all the pools? Put a chain across and say 'Closed'?

 

There is simply no way to ever fully protect every child from poor parenting choices.

 

One of our best friends that we often cruise with was a professional swim instructor/lifeguard for many, many years. We discussed how many guards would be needed to safely watch the water areas on a ship like Oasis, and it was a staggering number. Plus you would need double or triple that number to allow for staffing shifts.

[brfan]

Again I ask - exactly 'which' bodies of water should RCI put lifeguards at?

Just the children's pool areas?

Add in the adult pools?

Each and every hot tub?

What about at night? Drain all the pools? Put a chain across and say 'Closed'?

 

There is simply no way to ever fully protect every child from poor parenting choices.

 

One of our best friends that we often cruise with was a professional swim instructor/lifeguard for many, many years. We discussed how many guards would be needed to safely watch the water areas on a ship like Oasis, and it was a staggering number. Plus you would need double or triple that number to allow for staffing shifts.

 

Add in that there is limited space to house crew. Adding lifeguards would mean reducing crew from somewhere else in order to find space to house them. I guess they could get rid of the kids clubs and replace the counsellors with lifeguards. However, I'm sure the parents wouldn't like that option.

[ReneeFLL]

Just to play devils advocate...royal Caribbean markets themselves as a family cruise line in order to compete with the competition like disney.

When we went on disney cruise the pool had a staff of lifeguards on duty.

For the cost of a lifeguard they should have pools supervised.

 

Yes the parents should be watching but RC doesn't restrict the amount of people in the pools and even the most vigilant of parent can always lose track of child in a pool over capacity (only takes a minute).

RC wants the family $ they build the pools then wash their hands of the amount of people in them and their safety...they can't have it both ways.

 

Seriously?? Just because RC markets themselves to attract families, that doesn't mean they are babysitters. RC has babysitters you can hire. You have spent that much money on a cruise what's a few more bucks to keep your kids safe? Sounds like someone else who would blame others when it's their own fault.

 

 

So you guys are saying RC has zero responsibility in this?

 

RC should have absolutely NONE, NONE, AND NONE whatsoever.

 

If I decide to open a pool business tomorrow in my neighbourhood and charge admission, have no oversight into the number of people allowed into the pool and a child drowns I can just shrug my shoulders and say it's the parents responsibility?

 

There is a reason why pools and waterparks have capacity numbers and full time lifeguards on duty. Cost of doing business. RC gambled to save a few bucks. I hope they have to pay a big settlement to this family and have lifeguards around the children's pools. Especially since they were aware of a similar incident on a competitor ship and have done nothin

 

 

As another parent said on here, if the conditions look unsafe (pool looks to crowded) then take the kids somewhere else. If little Johnny throws a fit then you should have taught him the word NO and bring him back when it is more safe. I have seen it way to many times where the kids rule the parents. :eek:

[clochette]

It is so very sad that the child was injured, but the parents are responsible, I am getting tired of people always blaming someone else, we all need to take responsibility for our actions, and I also do not want to be monitor constantly what would be next no hot tub or pool without life guard on duty, anything with water only open from 10:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m. I have 2 grown kids, and never took my eyes of them and did not let them in the pool if it was too crowded, as Disney always was. Same at home, they were not allowed in the pool without an adult there. Being on vacation does not give you a pass on being a parent, if you do want to relax they have great kid clubs,

[gaylemh]

I noticed my last two cruises on Anthem, they had a crew member (not a lifeguard) stationed at the kids current pool, whenever I was there. (I spent a lot of time at the pool) A few times I heard them yell at the kids that were being reckless in the pool.

[jmf123]

I do think they should have a limit on the amount of people in the pools, though.

 

I agree. I'm not aware that Royal Caribbean has a limit posted. Disney Dream's pool rules states: 'Bather load 56 persons'. When the 4 yr. old nearly drowned in March 2013 (Disney Fantasy), apparently the pool was packed. Disney lifeguards are now enforcing the new pool rules and working to control the chaos that was the Family Pool- including putting an end to guests dangerously jumping into the pool on top of others.

 

I like the fact that RCI is providing life vests. Along with parent's close vigilance they can at least help to avert tragedy.

[NoWhiners]

While I agree only those people (both adults and kids) who can swim should be allowed to use the "regular" pools and no kids with diapers should be allowed, of course, I disagree kids who can swim shouldn't be permitted to swim. The general isn't an adult pool. If you want an adult pool go the adult-only pools/hot tubs. The kids pay the same fare as any adult and should be allowed to use the pools if the cruise line permits.

 

I added the bolding. Yes, I quite agree that if kids want to swim, they should. Note I never said anything about swimming, but did object to running around the edge of the pool and jumping in on top of people. I don't know how much kids pay (haven't I seen deals where kids/3rd/4th person sail free?) but I paid my fare too and I expect to use the pools--all of them. Without children jumping on me, crawling over me so they can grab the pool wall because they are in too deep water, etc. And, again as I noted, the adult pool and hot tubs are generally in too sunny places. Let the little tykes go "swim" out in the baking sun and I will sit in the shade and swim in peace.

 

Maybe what is really needed is a kids only pool/hot tub area, and that is the only pool they can use? Given the title of the thread, that wouldn't endanger them any more since their parents aren't paying attention anyway. Or maybe an age restriction (I saw that noted in a post, not sure if it was in this thread) but that seems very fair to me.

 

ML

[katiel53]

I don't think that the cruise lines should provide life guards. I know that sounds mean and cruel, but I think that is leaving them wide open for law suits. Heaven forbid that something happened to a child in a pool/area with a life guard. It would then become the fault of the cruise line for not watching ALL the children.

 

I also believe that there are parents who feel they are on vacation and so are their kids, so no reason for the parents to have to watch their children 24/7. Having a life guard would give some parents even more reason to do what they wanted instead of being a parent. It would be the life guard's responsibility, not the parents.

 

We all have heard of how some parents don't feel the rules apply to them and they are some of the parents who feel that drinking etc. are more important than watching their kids. It's not just at the pool either, it happens all over the ships.