Back to Back - different ships....allowed?

[mringenoldus]

For those of you knowledgeable in maritime law.....

 

Is there any rule that does not allow us to disembark an RCCL ship on December 3 in FLL and head down the road to Miami and board a Carnival ship on the same day??

 

There used to be quite a discussion of this regarding Alaskan itineraries, but unsure if it's prohibited.

 

Thanks!

Maureen

[fishywood]

Is there any rule that does not allow us to disembark an RCCL ship on December 3 in FLL and head down the road to Miami and board a Carnival ship on the same day??

 

Well if there actually was a possibility of a PVSA violation you would need to tell us what the originating port was of your first cruise that you are disembarking at Port Everglades and what the disembarkation port is of your second cruise originating in Miami in order to definitively answer.

 

But as I can't imagine any scenario involving two cruises on two different ships turning around at different ports only coincidentally on the same day having any legal issues, don't bother. You are fine.

Edited July 3, 2016 by fishywood

[Ashland]

No not a problem...you could even be leaving from the same port...it doesn't matter...Enjoy !

[seashinesunshine]

We are booked on the Adventure out of SJ and the next day are hopping on a Carnival, I never thought about an issue. Nice to know it's not an issue. :)

[mringenoldus]

Thank you!

The first leg is RT from FLL and the second is RT Miami.

Maybe it's only an issue if it involves Canada and Akaskan cruises??

[BekkaW]

Thank you!

The first leg is RT from FLL and the second is RT Miami.

Maybe it's only an issue if it involves Canada and Akaskan cruises??

 

The issue is whether the ship visits a far enough away foreign port. Alaska cruises don't, Caribbean cruises do.

 

Edit: also, what you're contemplating is a side-to-side. Back-to-back is on the same ship.

Edited July 3, 2016 by BekkaW

[Langley Cruisers]

Edit: also, what you're contemplating is a side-to-side. Back-to-back is on the same ship.

 

Yes, this is the crux of it. A different ship for the second cruise is not even a concern because the cruises are treated as separate of each other, not consecutive, no violations.

 

A true B2B on the same ship is not permitted on certain itineraries but that does not apply to you here. Enjoy!

[Snit13]

[quote name=

 

A true B2B on the same ship is not permitted on certain itineraries but that does not apply to you here. Enjoy!

 

Why? Please explain as I don't understand. Each cruise is a seperate cruise so why would it not be permitted?

[Fouremco]

As long as you complete the first cruise, there is no issue then embarking on a second cruise, whether or not it's the same ship, line or port. Finish the second cruise and you could then go on a third, etc., until your cruise budget is blown! :)

[Biker19]

Why? Please explain as I don't understand. Each cruise is a seperate cruise so why would it not be permitted?

 

The way I understand it if you go Seward-Vancouver and then Vancouver-Hawaii - you are essentially going between two US ports without a distant foreign port in violation of PVSA. Most of the time the cruise line tries to avoid this with itineraries to allow B2B.

[Fouremco]

The way I understand it if you go Seward-Vancouver and then Vancouver-Hawaii - you are essentially going between two US ports without a distant foreign port in violation of PVSA. Most of the time the cruise line tries to avoid this with itineraries to allow B2B.

I don't pretend to know every line's complete inventory of sailings, but the OP is talking about a December cruise terminating in Fort Lauderdale followed by one embarking in Miami on a different line. To the best of my knowledge, none of the available cruises would run into the issue you describe.

 

Even in the situation you cite, I believe that there would be no problem as long as two different cruise lines were involved.

[RCCL Fan]

did it recently....

 

 

no issues

Edited July 3, 2016 by RCCL Fan

[OBX-Cruisers]

I don't pretend to know every line's complete inventory of sailings, but the OP is talking about a December cruise terminating in Fort Lauderdale followed by one embarking in Miami on a different line. To the best of my knowledge, none of the available cruises would run into the issue you describe.

 

Even in the situation you cite, I believe that there would be no problem as long as two different cruise lines were involved.

 

The scenario described is NOT a back to back.....these are TWO totally separate cruises.

As Foremco already said you could do this all year if you wanted to and had the money and could do so on the same ship, same line or different lines. All separate cruises and B2B when you stay on the same ship..............only problem you would have on multiple B2Bs on the same ship would be to book far far in advance so you could get the same cabin or else you would have to move on your subsequent trips

[Ourusualbeach]

The scenario described is NOT a back to back.....these are TWO totally separate cruises.

As Foremco already said you could do this all year if you wanted to and had the money and could do so on the same ship, same line or different lines. All separate cruises and B2B when you stay on the same ship..............only problem you would have on multiple B2Bs on the same ship would be to book far far in advance so you could get the same cabin or else you would have to move on your subsequent trips

 

You can't always do B2B's on the same ship.

 

As previously mentioned sometimes this will put you in violation of the PVSA. Even though they are separate cruises they look at the start point on the first cruise and the ending point on your last cruise to determine if there is a PVSA violation.

[Langley Cruisers]

Why? Please explain as I don't understand. Each cruise is a seperate cruise so why would it not be permitted?

 

The way I understand it if you go Seward-Vancouver and then Vancouver-Hawaii - you are essentially going between two US ports without a distant foreign port in violation of PVSA. Most of the time the cruise line tries to avoid this with itineraries to allow B2B.

 

Yes, that is the example I was thinking of, thank you. It would be a violation as Victoria or Vancouver is not considered a "distant foreign port".

 

As long as you complete the first cruise, there is no issue then embarking on a second cruise, whether or not it's the same ship, line or port. Finish the second cruise and you could then go on a third, etc., until your cruise budget is blown! :)

 

Sorry no, that's not correct. Many people have posted here over the years after their travel agent or Royal (and Celebrity as well) contacted them stating their B2B was not permitted.

 

As Foremco already said you could do this all year if you wanted to and had the money and could do so on the same ship, same line or different lines. All separate cruises and B2B when you stay on the same ship..............

 

Sorry also not correct, for the reason already mentioned by Biker19, Ourusualbeach, and myself. Last year on our Solstice to Alaska cruise, we had over 200 passengers disembark in Victoria (not Seattle, our final disembarkation port) because they had been on the previous cruise, which was a repo from Hawaii to Vancouver. Hawaii --> Vancouver/B2B Vancouver -->Seattle not permitted.

 

Anyway - OP's scenario does not include this as it is a S2S on two different ships. I just brought it up initially because OP asked if it was in violation, which their cruises are not. :)

 

.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Langley Cruisers

[chengkp75]

Things are getting messy here, because folks are mixing "closed loop" and "open jaw" and "foreign" cruises.

 

"Closed loop" cruises (ones that start and end at the same US port), you can, as OBX and Fouremco say, do this all year, because you are returning to the same port you left from.

 

"Open jaw" cruises (ones that start in one US port and end in another US port) are not allowed (without the requisite "distant foreign port"), and any combination of cruises on the same ship that together begin and end in different US ports cannot be done (without the requisite "distant foreign port"). You may have two or three cruises that by themselves are legal, when combined as B2B's become illegal.

 

"Foreign cruises" (those that begin or end in a non-US port) may not be combined such that you end in a different US port than you started. For example, a Seattle to Vancouver Alaska cruise is legal. So is a Vancouver to Hawaii cruise. Both are foreign cruises. Combining them becomes a Seattle to Hawaii cruise, which is not legal.

 

Once you introduce a different cruise line or different ship within the same cruise line all restrictions are off. Using the above example, if you did the Seattle to Vancouver on ship #1, and the Vancouver to Hawaii on ship #2, both with the same cruise line, that now becomes a legal "side to side" cruise. Also, cruises where you transport yourself from one port to another (as the OP is doing) eliminates any restrictions.

 

I believe that the controversy began with Fouremco's statement "As long as you complete the first cruise, there is no issue then embarking on a second cruise, whether or not it's the same ship, line or port. Finish the second cruise and you could then go on a third, etc., until your cruise budget is blown!", which is not literally true, as stated above, but would be true for closed loop cruises only.

 

CBP does not look at "separate" cruises, only the port of origin, and the port the passenger "permanently disembarks" the ship.

[buddylover]

For those of you knowledgeable in maritime law.....

 

Is there any rule that does not allow us to disembark an RCCL ship on December 3 in FLL and head down the road to Miami and board a Carnival ship on the same day??

 

There used to be quite a discussion of this regarding Alaskan itineraries, but unsure if it's prohibited.

 

Thanks!

Maureen

 

Nope, no violation that I know of as we have done that exact thing twice....once out of San Juan, and then out of Miami.....you just have to get from one ship/port to the other, but no problems at all for us....and lots of FUN!:)

[Fouremco]

Things are getting messy here, because folks are mixing "closed loop" and "open jaw" and "foreign" cruises.

 

"Closed loop" cruises (ones that start and end at the same US port), you can, as OBX and Fouremco say, do this all year, because you are returning to the same port you left from.

 

"Open jaw" cruises (ones that start in one US port and end in another US port) are not allowed (without the requisite "distant foreign port"), and any combination of cruises on the same ship that together begin and end in different US ports cannot be done (without the requisite "distant foreign port"). You may have two or three cruises that by themselves are legal, when combined as B2B's become illegal.

 

"Foreign cruises" (those that begin or end in a non-US port) may not be combined such that you end in a different US port than you started. For example, a Seattle to Vancouver Alaska cruise is legal. So is a Vancouver to Hawaii cruise. Both are foreign cruises. Combining them becomes a Seattle to Hawaii cruise, which is not legal.

 

Once you introduce a different cruise line or different ship within the same cruise line all restrictions are off. Using the above example, if you did the Seattle to Vancouver on ship #1, and the Vancouver to Hawaii on ship #2, both with the same cruise line, that now becomes a legal "side to side" cruise. Also, cruises where you transport yourself from one port to another (as the OP is doing) eliminates any restrictions.

 

I believe that the controversy began with Fouremco's statement "As long as you complete the first cruise, there is no issue then embarking on a second cruise, whether or not it's the same ship, line or port. Finish the second cruise and you could then go on a third, etc., until your cruise budget is blown!", which is not literally true, as stated above, but would be true for closed loop cruises only.

 

CBP does not look at "separate" cruises, only the port of origin, and the port the passenger "permanently disembarks" the ship.

My bad! :) Yes, I should have clarified that I was making the statement within the context of the OP.

[MommaBear55]

The issue is whether the ship visits a far enough away foreign port. Alaska cruises don't, Caribbean cruises do.

 

Edit: also, what you're contemplating is a side-to-side. Back-to-back is on the same ship.

 

Not all Caribbean cruises do. Just the ones that go to Aruba, Bonaire or Curacao. That is why repositioning cruises between two different US pirts go to at least seet one of these islands. Ships that go in and out the same message e port don't have to worry about it.

[mrpayroll]

Doing this in January. Going on Allure Jan.15. Getting off in Ft. Lau. on the 22nd. Driving to Miami and going on Carnival Vista leaving later that same day. :):)

[TigerLady]

For those of you knowledgeable in maritime law.....

 

Is there any rule that does not allow us to disembark an RCCL ship on December 3 in FLL and head down the road to Miami and board a Carnival ship on the same day??

 

There used to be quite a discussion of this regarding Alaskan itineraries, but unsure if it's prohibited.

 

Thanks!

Maureen

 

Not an issue.. Been there done that. Have fun