Have you ever set a cruise ship cabin on fire?

[SantaFeFan]

The problem is not the high quality chargers provided by the device manufacturer but the cheap ebay model which may be a forgery.

 

Or the unsafe surge protection devices some people use to add additional outlets. Cruise ship wiring is different than land based wiring. Surge protectors need an earth ground to be effective. Hard to find an earth ground on a ship. ;)

[zqvol]

That grain of salt is what I was hoping to explore. I put my insurance agent's "understanding" in quotes as her answer was a little less than the solid answer I was hoping to receive. Anyway, she thought that a liability is created when the property of another is damaged. She also thought that our homeowner's policy would cover (to its limits) the damage. Further, because we had the underlying coverage (the HO policy), that our umbrella policy would apply to any excess costs. As you probably know, the legal expenses and loss-of-use charges could be substantial.

 

What started me thinking about this issue is that over the years we have rented a variety of properties and there seems to be different damage liability treatment depending on the property. We've chartered bare boats and were required to purchase a one-time insurance policy to cover damage to the boat. I've read the cruise documents of cruise lines and nothing is even mentioned about damage caused by me. The issue never seems to be addressed when staying at a hotel or in a time share. However, if you read the VRBO contract it appears to me that one is required to put down a security deposit and is also responsible for all damage to the property ( I'm not an attorney). Obviously, it would be much more likely to cause major damage when staying in a time share or a VRBO property than a cruise ship cabin.

 

I apologize for making the thread's title way too provocative but I do believe that this is a serious issue that we, as travelers, should understand. Hopefully there is nothing to worry about but I've asked a number of people and have never received what I consider to be a rock-solid answer.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Talk with an attorney, not an insurance agent. There are way too many things to consider to get a reliable answer on these boards.

[chengkp75]

 

Or the unsafe surge protection devices some people use to add additional outlets. Cruise ship wiring is different than land based wiring. Surge protectors need an earth ground to be effective. Hard to find an earth ground on a ship. ;)

 

Actually, finding an earth ground on a ship is easier than in your home. Touch any wall, floor, or wall stud in your house, with a wire and you will have an extremely poor ground. Touch any metal surface on a ship and you will have a 100% ground. The sea is just as much "ground" or "earth" in electrical terms as the dirt in your yard. And steel is a good conductor of electricity. In fact, the vast abundance of an "earth ground" on a ship is why the wiring is different. If the neutral wire was at the same potential as the ground wire (like it is in your home), you could not easily measure when equipment developed a ground, and therefore, you would not detect current flowing in the steel hull. Since ships are not strictly steel, when you put two dissimilar metals in sea water and pass electrical current through them, you get electrolysis, or the wasting away of one of the metals. Since steel is the least noble of the metals used in shipbuilding, it is what will waste away, causing leaks in the hull or piping.

 

Therefore, the ship's electrical system is separated from the ground in the hull so that any current flowing in the ground can be noticed, located, and repaired. The ground point on ships is the neutral point of the Y-wound generators, to provide the safety needed to prevent electrocution should equipment fail.

 

The problem with surge protectors at sea is not that there isn't a ground (there is), but that since the ground is separate, a ground anywhere else onboard can subject the MOV semi-conductors in the surge protector to reverse voltage (opposite to what it was designed for), which can cause the MOV's to fail in thermal overload causing a fire.

[LA_CA_GAL]

There was the time I was smoking in bed while ironing in rough seas and the iron slipped and hit the candle that lit the fireworks……. but …. no ,,, no fire ….. just a bunch of explosions.

[SantaFeFan]

 

Actually, finding an earth ground on a ship is easier than in your home. Touch any wall, floor, or wall stud in your house, with a wire and you will have an extremely poor ground. Touch any metal surface on a ship and you will have a 100% ground. The sea is just as much "ground" or "earth" in electrical terms as the dirt in your yard. And steel is a good conductor of electricity. In fact, the vast abundance of an "earth ground" on a ship is why the wiring is different. If the neutral wire was at the same potential as the ground wire (like it is in your home), you could not easily measure when equipment developed a ground, and therefore, you would not detect current flowing in the steel hull. Since ships are not strictly steel, when you put two dissimilar metals in sea water and pass electrical current through them, you get electrolysis, or the wasting away of one of the metals. Since steel is the least noble of the metals used in shipbuilding, it is what will waste away, causing leaks in the hull or piping.

 

Therefore, the ship's electrical system is separated from the ground in the hull so that any current flowing in the ground can be noticed, located, and repaired. The ground point on ships is the neutral point of the Y-wound generators, to provide the safety needed to prevent electrocution should equipment fail.

 

The problem with surge protectors at sea is not that there isn't a ground (there is), but that since the ground is separate, a ground anywhere else onboard can subject the MOV semi-conductors in the surge protector to reverse voltage (opposite to what it was designed for), which can cause the MOV's to fail in thermal overload causing a fire.

 

Thanks for the clarification - I think! ;p

 

What you describe is a ground, but is it actually considered an "earth ground". My electrical training has taught me that an earth ground is only accomplished by tying the ground wire to earth through a grounding rod or other stable connection to ground, such as buried water pipes, etc. And since the ground under a ship is fathoms deep, I have always understood that such a ground is not possible on a ship or boat. I wrestled with this on my 29 ft sailboat when my hobby at the time was pouring too much of my hard earned salary into that money-sucking machine. :)

[chengkp75]

 

Thanks for the clarification - I think! ;p

 

What you describe is a ground, but is it actually considered an "earth ground". My electrical training has taught me that an earth ground is only accomplished by tying the ground wire to earth through a grounding rod or other stable connection to ground, such as buried water pipes, etc. And since the ground under a ship is fathoms deep, I have always understood that such a ground is not possible on a ship or boat. I wrestled with this on my 29 ft sailboat when my hobby at the time was pouring too much of my hard earned salary into that money-sucking machine. :)

 

The differentiation between a "ground" and an "earth ground" is a US idiom. Most of the world uses the term "earthing" for any grounding system. And "grounding" a piece of equipment or appliance doesn't do much good unless that grounding is tied back to an "earth grounding".

 

 

A land based "earth ground" uses ground rods and metal pipes to bypass electrical insulators like soil, clay, sand, to get to firm bedrock and the universal potential of the earth. Sea water is a sufficiently good conductor that it operates like the ground rods and pipes, and is virtually at the same potential as the earth itself anyway. This is why when a ship is struck by lightning, I've never been electrocuted while standing on a steel deck and touching a steel bulkhead, and why none of the electrical equipment onboard is damaged. The charge flows through the hull to the seawater, and thence to ground.

 

As to your boat, it would depend mostly on whether you sail in fresh or salt water, though even fresh water has some conductivity. I can say that I made a good side living when I was younger, putting my card up in the local marinas to work on boat electrical systems. Most common problem was a wire that was touching a metal fitting that was connected to metal on the outside of the boat, so the circuit went from the battery to this "ground" on the boat, and through the water to "earth", draining the battery.

[ldubs]

There was the time I was smoking in bed while ironing in rough seas and the iron slipped and hit the candle that lit the fireworks……. but …. no ,,, no fire ….. just a bunch of explosions.

 

Good thing you didn't break the lava lamp:D

[SantaFeFan]

 

The differentiation between a "ground" and an "earth ground" is a US idiom. Most of the world uses the term "earthing" for any grounding system. And "grounding" a piece of equipment or appliance doesn't do much good unless that grounding is tied back to an "earth grounding".

 

 

A land based "earth ground" uses ground rods and metal pipes to bypass electrical insulators like soil, clay, sand, to get to firm bedrock and the universal potential of the earth. Sea water is a sufficiently good conductor that it operates like the ground rods and pipes, and is virtually at the same potential as the earth itself anyway. This is why when a ship is struck by lightning, I've never been electrocuted while standing on a steel deck and touching a steel bulkhead, and why none of the electrical equipment onboard is damaged. The charge flows through the hull to the seawater, and thence to ground.

 

As to your boat, it would depend mostly on whether you sail in fresh or salt water, though even fresh water has some conductivity. I can say that I made a good side living when I was younger, putting my card up in the local marinas to work on boat electrical systems. Most common problem was a wire that was touching a metal fitting that was connected to metal on the outside of the boat, so the circuit went from the battery to this "ground" on the boat, and through the water to "earth", draining the battery.

 

Thanks!

[MicCanberra]

No but then I don't smoke and I don't leave anything charging when not in the room.

[Hflors]

For those who need a "surge protector" if you are cruising HAL just go to the front office and get one on embarkment day. One of our cabins only had one plug and the refrigerator was already plugged into that. No problem, they gave us a surge protector and an extension cord. It worked out great because while dh watches tv I watch my dvd player in the evening. We left all that stuff plugged in the whole two weeks no one said a thing.

 

I agree with others - this is most likely the strangest thread I have ever read on CC!

[luvtheships]

Whether you follow the free style advice to unplug or not is secondary. The fact that you have been put on notice makes you the at fault party if your Samsung IPhone or similar device starts smoking.

 

 

 

I though Apple made iPhones lol

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Aquahound]

Just when I thought every cruise related question has been asked on cruise Critic.....

 

Thanks, OP, for making me smile this morning. :)

[cruzeluver]

Thank you OP for bringing something new to the table. Kind of a nice break from the endless discussions of gratuities, smoking, my cruise line is better than your cruise line, chair hogging, cutbacks, and on and on.

[DirtyDawg]

Thank you OP for bringing something new to the table. Kind of a nice break from the endless discussions of gratuities, smoking, my cruise line is better than your cruise line, chair hogging, cutbacks, and on and on.

 

I guess the next new topic should be; Can you start a fire on a cruise ship by attaching an electrical wire to those chairhogs' loungers and plugging it in? :eek: :evilsmile::evilsmile:

 

:)

[thinfool]

I guess the next new topic should be; Can you start a fire on a cruise ship by attaching an electrical wire to those chairhogs' loungers and plugging it in? :eek: :evilsmile::evilsmile:

 

:)

 

I don't know if you can start a fire but that would definitely light someone up! :cool:

[chengkp75]

For those who need a "surge protector" if you are cruising HAL just go to the front office and get one on embarkment day. One of our cabins only had one plug and the refrigerator was already plugged into that. No problem, they gave us a surge protector and an extension cord. It worked out great because while dh watches tv I watch my dvd player in the evening. We left all that stuff plugged in the whole two weeks no one said a thing.

 

I agree with others - this is most likely the strangest thread I have ever read on CC!

 

I assume you mean they gave you a "power strip" and an extension cord, not a surge protector. Surge protectors are what are dangerous onboard, so I doubt the line would be handing them out.

[Hflors]

I assume you mean they gave you a "power strip" and an extension cord, not a surge protector. Surge protectors are what are dangerous onboard, so I doubt the line would be handing them out.

 

You are probably right. Thanks for the correction.

[Haoie]

Leave it to the Chief to set the record straight!

[eileeshb]

For those asking about cruise lines that issue dire warnings and threats against leaving devices plugged in when not in your cabin NCL are one of those. They give the warning in their FAQ, in the booking confirmation, in the messages they send your account on ship and in a note in the cabin just in case you missed all the other places it was written. They also warn that your cabin steward will unplug anything he finds plugged in.

[MicCanberra]

I guess the next new topic should be; Can you start a fire on a cruise ship by attaching an electrical wire to those chairhogs' loungers and plugging it in? :eek: :evilsmile::evilsmile:

 

:)

I think someone should test this out, may even come in handy. Facial recognition would be needed (to shock the chair hog and not the next person to come along) otherwise it would be ineffective.

[MicCanberra]

I doubt your travel insurance would have you covered, especially if it is negligence or wilful damage.

[kerryincork]

I would never leave a device plugged in if I wasn't in cabin on balcony or in bathroom. I don't charge overnight.

 

I don't do these things at home either. I've been on many fire teams at work and when the experts come in to talk about fire prevention, the biggest causes of fire are candles, cigarettes and electrical. In recent years the number of electrical fires caused by charging devices has increased greatly. Also another thing to watch out for are fires caused by remote controls.

 

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[champagne123]

last month a very nice couple decided to celebrate the friday sabbath in their cabin. This involved candles.

After the celebration, they placed the candles in the bathroom sink, and went to dinner.

During dinner, the candles ignited fiberglass bathroom sink, which then spread to the soft goods in the bathroom, and then to the soft goods in the cabin. By the time the smoke alarm sounded and the sprinklers started, the cabin had been mostly destroyed by fire and smoke. Water completed the rest of the job.

We had no empty cabins, so the couple had to be sent home.

We charged us$40,000 to their onboard account for the damages, which is about half of what it cost the company to fix the damage.

It took three weeks to fix the damage; with no empty cabins, families who had booked that cabin had to be cancelled for 3 cruises.

holy cow!!!!

[Goosebear Mum]

Okay. I had thought about this, due to a near miss on land.

 

I was charging my phone from an Anker portable battery, at work. The cable was a bit damaged, as they quickly get at the connectors. Luckily I noticed the burning smell and quickly turned it off and disconnected everything. The cable was thrown away. The battery had slightly melted where the cable connected to it. That portable battery will no longer be used, just in case of damage.

 

Moral. I always replace charging cables now as soon as they show signs of wear. I never take old cables on a ship...

 

P.S. P&O always give warnings to not leave unattended devices charging. Including overnight whilst asleep.

[AdGuyMG]

Last month a very nice couple decided to celebrate the Friday Sabbath in their cabin. This involved candles.

After the celebration, they placed the candles in the bathroom sink, and went to dinner.

During dinner, the candles ignited fiberglass bathroom sink, which then spread to the soft goods in the bathroom, and then to the soft goods in the cabin. By the time the smoke alarm sounded and the sprinklers started, the cabin had been mostly destroyed by fire and smoke. Water completed the rest of the job.

We had no empty cabins, so the couple had to be sent home.

We charged US$40,000 to their onboard account for the damages, which is about half of what it cost the company to fix the damage.

It took three weeks to fix the damage; with no empty cabins, families who had booked that cabin had to be cancelled for 3 cruises.

 

Wow!!

 

What ship did this happen on?