Interesting New Passport Requirement

[Underwatr]

It's also true that until recently passports weren't required for most travel within North America. I was born very close to the Canadian border (my schoolteacher father spent a few summers working as a Customs officer at a crossing) and the procedure required only that you state that you were an American citizen and the nature of your travel and most of the time you were on your way. No identification would be necessary and at most you might have to produce something like a driver's license. The same has been true for land crossings between the US and Mexico until very recently.

Also keep in mind that because of the size of the US people have a different view of their country within the world than I suspect Europeans do. If you can drive in four different directions and be in a different country within a few hours your sense of perspective is different than that of an American (some people may not even realize that Canada is to the US the same as Germany is not France).

[SantaFeFan]

SantaFeFan

 

Europeans are quite aware that the US is a very large country and is diverse. I know I have travelled quite extensively there, but what a pity not to experience different things by travelling.

 

I have learnt so much on my travels, it has to be one of the best forms of education.

 

I agree 100%. Traveling, no matter where, is a great way to learn and experience new things than what we are familiar with at home.

 

Although there are so many places to go to in the US, for real diversity, traveling abroad for us is the preferred way to go. My wife and I have been fortunate to have visited over 40 countries together, on every continent but Antarctica. On the other hand, we have only visited 27 US states. One of the reasons for the discrepancy is that even though each state has it's own unique cultural differences and features, they are more similar than different. Visiting Switzerland, Cambodia or Egypt, for example, is visiting a very different world experience than visiting New York, Montana or Florida. ;)

Edited July 2, 2017 by SantaFeFan

[sail7seas]

I have to agree with you. Why would you not have a passport. Yes, I know how big the US is as I have travelled all over. According to statistics only 36 per cent of US citizens hold a passport, which I find very strange.

 

For me, to travel to a foreign country is an education and a pleasure to experience different cultures, food, languages etc.

 

We often see good deals on flights and travel at the last minute to other countries. Surely, from the east coast of US it is not that far to travel to a European destination, the same as many Europeans have long weekends in NYC.

So, you know how long a flight it is. :)

 

I have flown from Boston and NYC to Europe a great meany times and . those flights are. long. :) They are often over nights for us east coas ters t Very long for U.S. West coastters. I don't understand why you aare so bothered by U.S. passport holder statiistics.. That is one of the last thingss I care about assda werll as how many Eueopeans (In or out of EU) have passport.s. Not something on my radar. :) I am gratedul I did that long distance tiring travel when we did. I am not eager to repeat much of it now.

Edited July 2, 2017 by sail7seas

[Sea Hag]

It's ridiculous that these states have had all that time and still haven't done what they should.

[Underwatr]

Privacy laws needed overturning. See upthread.

[sail7seas]

It's ridiculous that these states have had all that time and still haven't done what they should.

Do you know why hey have nott complied? If so, please share. I don'tr know why. It is not only their governor but their state legislatures, as well, I would think?

[njhorseman]

It's also true that until recently passports weren't required for most travel within North America. I was born very close to the Canadian border (my schoolteacher father spent a few summers working as a Customs officer at a crossing) and the procedure required only that you state that you were an American citizen and the nature of your travel and most of the time you were on your way. No identification would be necessary and at most you might have to produce something like a driver's license. The same has been true for land crossings between the US and Mexico until very recently.

Also keep in mind that because of the size of the US people have a different view of their country within the world than I suspect Europeans do. If you can drive in four different directions and be in a different country within a few hours your sense of perspective is different than that of an American (some people may not even realize that Canada is to the US the same as Germany is not France).

 

In addition to being able to enter Canada or Mexico without a passport until relatively recently you could also fly to many Caribbean islands without a passport.

[NMLady]

Do you know why hey have nott complied? If so, please share. I don'tr know why. It is not only their governor but their state legislatures, as well, I would think?

 

Re-read the first paragraph of post #43 -- the reason has to do with privacy concerns.

[njhorseman]

Correct. We were in Alaska last week and rode the White Pass and Yukon train into Canada territory. Everyone on board had to display a passport when immigration came through. However, we did not need to display it when entering the US when returning to port on the tour bus.

 

But, when we entered Victoria, BC during our stop there, we did not need to show our passports since we were on a cruise ship, nor did we need to have them with us - they stayed in the safe that day.

 

The reason you had to show your passport (or passport card or EDL or NEXUS card) when riding the White Pass and Yukon train was not because of Canadian requirements, but rather because the US would not allow you to reenter without it. Canadian authorities will not let you enter Canada without your having proper documentation to reenter the US. There was no need to check for passports on your return because the checking was done at the start of the tour.

 

It really doesn't make a lot of sense that Canada didn't change its requirements to conform to the new US requirements, but I guess they felt it was sufficient to simply enforce US requirements, which from a results point of view has the same effect.

 

As you can see from this page delineating the official Canadian requirements, technically a birth certificate suffices as proof of citizenship:

 

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/ivc-rnc-eng.html#a3

 

"Identification requirements for U. S. citizens and permanent residents

 

If you are a U.S. citizen or permanent resident, you must carry proof of citizenship such as a passport, birth certificate, a certificate of citizenship or naturalization, a U.S. Permanent Resident Card, or a Certificate of Indian Status along with photo identification. If you are a U.S. permanent resident, ensure you carry proof of your status such as a U.S. Permanent Resident Card."

[Underwatr]

Why some states won't comply with REAL ID requirements

 

 

Some states have objected to the database requirement and the requirement to make this database available to the federal government and other states. The obvious fear is someone hacking into any or every state’s database and gaining access to personal information on every person that has ever applied for a license or state ID. According to Jim Harper, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute, “In summary, it’s a national ID system. Everyone in your state will be at risk of identity fraud.” DHS refutes this interpretation of the law on the DHS website, stating that “REAL ID does not build a national database nor does it grant the Federal Government or another state access to a state’s driver’s license data.”

 

The text of the law seems to contradict DHS’s claim. Section 202(d)(12) requires states to “provide electronic access to all other States to information contained in the motor vehicle database of the State.” Section 202(d)(13) mandates that states “maintain a State motor vehicle database that contains, at a minimum — (A) all data fields printed on drivers’ licenses and identification cards issued by the State; and (B) motor vehicle drivers’ histories, including motor vehicle violations, suspensions, and points on licenses.” It seems that the states are required to maintain a database with personal information on its citizens and that other states will have access to that information.

 

In the Final Rule issued by the Secretary of DHS on Jan. 29, 2008, section (E) also contradicts the DHS website, stating, “the State-to-State data exchange will likely require a software application (likely an index or pointer system) to enable the States to exchange limited information to identify whether an applicant for a card holds a card in another jurisdiction.” Section (F) explains that the requirement is no different than what is already in place. “This requirement is similar to the existing statutory and regulatory requirements for commercial driver's licenses.”

[navybankerteacher]

One of the reasons so few US citizens have passports is the successful lobbying by cruise lines to permit cruising with just birth certificate and ID - making cruising more affordable. There are thoud

[navybankerteacher]

sands, if not millions, of cruise passengers for whom that "extra $100" (cost of a passport) would have made cruising unaffordable.

[sparks1093]

One of the reasons so few US citizens have passports is the successful lobbying by cruise lines to permit cruising with just birth certificate and ID - making cruising more affordable. There are thoud

 

The DHS published the proposed regulations in the Federal Register as required by law and every segment of society was able to "lobby" DHS for the changes they wanted to see. DHS determined that a US citizen on a closed loop cruise (as defined) posed a low risk to the National security and it was that determination that led to the closed loop exception. Without that determination it is highly unlikely that the exception would exist, no matter what kind of pressure was brought. (How likely is it that someone is going to sneak into the country in order to do harm, only to sneak out of the country in order to sneak into the country again 7 days later?)

 

It is also not the only exception in the regulations, there are 11 others. From all of the documentation and information that I've read the heaviest and hardest "lobbying" came from border communities who were very vocal in wanting an exception to the passport requirements- and did not get them (although the passport card was developed to lessen their financial burden, as were EDLs).

[SadieN]

SantaFeFan

 

Europeans are quite aware that the US is a very large country and is diverse. I know I have travelled quite extensively there, but what a pity not to experience different things by travelling.

 

I have learnt so much on my travels, it has to be one of the best forms of education.

 

 

 

Not only is the US huge, each area is unique. We live in Southern California, which is completely different than Far Northern California near the Oregon coast (that aforementioned 15 hour drive), which is different than New York, Atlanta, Dallas, and the small towns in Oklahoma.

Know many people who have gone to Europe but have no idea what's in their own backyard.

[ldubs]

Not only is the US huge, each area is unique. We live in Southern California, which is completely different than Far Northern California near the Oregon coast (that aforementioned 15 hour drive), which is different than New York, Atlanta, Dallas, and the small towns in Oklahoma.

Know many people who have gone to Europe but have no idea what's in their own backyard.

 

I live in Northern California, also known as "Superior" California :D

[NMLady]

Not only is the US huge, each area is unique. We live in Southern California, which is completely different than Far Northern California near the Oregon coast (that aforementioned 15 hour drive), which is different than New York, Atlanta, Dallas, and the small towns in Oklahoma. ....

 

Our southern New Mexico desert is very different from northern New Mexico. And Texas has at least five different geographic areas.

48 continental states and each state with different geographic areas -/ no need for most Americans to get a passport.

 

But I've had one for 34 years.