Interesting New Passport Requirement

[sparks1093]

I thought the gold star was for Enhanced DL's, which is not the same as REALID. No?

 

A US flag denotes the EDL (along with the words across the top).

[sparks1093]

For a non-US citizen, what is a passport booklet? Those of us in Europe and other parts of the world have passports. I'm sure if you wanted to fly internationally you would need a 'proper' passport :)

And personally I find all this 'passport card/ ID/booklet' odd to say the least. We've had passports and driving licences since we were teenagers, as have most people outside the US.

Not being snarky, but why don't US citizens have passports if they want to travel??

Or do they not travel outside the US??

 

The passport booklet is a passport just like you have and the words are used only to differentiate between the book and the card. If a US citizen wants to travel they have several options available to them depending on where and how they want to travel. If they only want to travel within the US (and that's what many, many US citizens do) then they only need a photo ID at most. Options exist for those who only cross into Canada or Mexico and options exist for cruisers. The only time a US citizen would actually need a passport is to fly internationally.

[Hlitner]

REAL ID is a form of identification that requires the ability to prove US Citizenship.

Some States, such as mine, allowed anyone to get a drivers license as long as they could prove residency.

Show the Dept. of Licensing a power bill in your name and a garbage bill in your name and you prove residency.

Pass the drivers test and you get a drivers license with your picture on it that proved identity but not citizenship.

 

Department of Homeland Security will soon require anyone who flies to show Real ID that shows identity but also proves citizenship.

 

You are not posting only a half truth. For example, you do not have to prove you are a US Citizen...under the Act. You do have to prove that you are either a US Citizen, or lawfully a resident. Rather then giving folks incomplete info it might be better to give them a link to the actual regulations (the issue regarding residency is at the bottom of page 2). Here is the link:

https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/real-id-act-text.pdf

 

We live in one of States (Pennsylvania) that have yet to comply...although we now have a new law that will eventually bring us into compliance. If the Feds ever enforce this law (this remains to be seen) and we do not get a waiver....we would have to use a Passport, Passport Card, or other Federally issued picture ID such as a Nexus or Global Entry card.

 

Hank

[navybankerteacher]

[quote=sparks1093;53429097

 

. The only time a US citizen would actually need a passport is to fly internationally.

 

Don't you mean TRAVEL internationally, other than to Mexico or Canada?

[sparks1093]

Don't you mean TRAVEL internationally, other than to Mexico or Canada?

 

I meant what I said as any other circumstances were covered in the previous parts of my comments, although to avoid confusion I should have said "options exist for some cruisers".

[zqvol]

For a non-US citizen, what is a passport booklet? Those of us in Europe and other parts of the world have passports. I'm sure if you wanted to fly internationally you would need a 'proper' passport :)

And personally I find all this 'passport card/ ID/booklet' odd to say the least. We've had passports and driving licences since we were teenagers, as have most people outside the US.

Not being snarky, but why don't US citizens have passports if they want to travel??

Or do they not travel outside the US??

 

In the rest of the world, and in most of the US it is simply called a passport. People on CC use that term to differentiate that from an alternative form of ID that issued by the US government that is referred to as a "passport card", which is used for land and sea entry into Canada or Mexico.

[sail7seas]

I am very surprised Massachusetts is not on the list and wonder when my state chose to become compliant. My license is no different than the ones I've been renewing for so many years. Doesn' t much matter to me as I have passport etc

Edited July 1, 2017 by sail7seas

[sail7seas]

For a non-US citizen, what is a passport booklet? Those of us in Europe and other parts of the world have passports. I'm sure if you wanted to fly internationally you would need a 'proper' passport :)

And personally I find all this 'passport card/ ID/booklet' odd to say the least. We've had passports and driving licences since we were teenagers, as have most people outside the US.

Not being snarky, but why don't US citizens have passports if they want to travel??

Or do they not travel outside the US??

 

 

One distinction worth mentioning is how large our country is and how far and how many places we can go without a passport. We can visit 50 states, Canada, MEXICO, bERMUDA, Bahamas, Puerto Rico and other in the Caribbea n . Until EU, Europeans needed passport to travel much of anywhere.

 

Actually, a GREAT MANY U. S icitizens have passports same as the rest of the world. I have renewed mine again and again for decades.By no means am I the only one.

Edited July 1, 2017 by sail7seas

[Cruisercl]

The only reason the residents of these states will have to present passports,

is the states involved have failed to comply with the 2005 real ID act.

 

I would think that 12 years was sufficient time to comply.

 

Mac

 

First, the writer of the 'article' needs to check his facts; this is another internet website giving incorrect information. Really poor reporting.

 

Real ID is now passed in MN.

 

One would think that 12 years is sufficient. Here in MN, the State Legislature & Governor made it a political issue about illegal immigrants. They asked the Fed government for another extension and the Feds said no. Thank goodness; our legislature/governor arrogance is embarrassing.

 

For the majority of us that live legally in the state; we have been waiting for them to get their act together.

 

Happy sailing all!!! ;)

[Hlitner]

One distinction worth mentioning is how large our country is and how far and how many places we can go without a passport. We can visit 50 states, Canada, MEXICO, bERMUDA, Bahamas, Puerto Rico and other in the Caribbea n . Until EU, Europeans needed passport to travel much of anywhere.

 

Actually, a GREAT MANY U. S icitizens have passports same as the rest of the world. I have renewed mine again and again for decades.By no means am I the only one.

 

Not exactly true. You cannot fly into Canada or Mexico without a valid passport. And even driving across the Canadian border requires a Passport, Passport Card, etc. While you can cruise to some places, such as Bermuda and the Bahamas, you do need a valid Passport if you fly into those countries. And it is the same in the Caribbean. Exceptions are made by many islands for cruisers...but only cruisers.

 

Hank

[SantaFeFan]

I am very surprised Massachusetts is not on the list and wonder when my state chose to become compliant. My license is no different than the ones I've been renewing for so many years.

 

The state may have compliant DLs available, but you don't have one of them yet. It may be that in your state, as in mine, you have to specifically ask for the new DL if you want the upgraded version. Rather than issuing everyone the new DL on day one, which would be a huge and expensive task, they issue one on request or when the next renewal occurs, which could be well after the due date. When they become available next January, we will have to appear in person to request the new DL, bringing the additional necessary documentation which is more stringent than what is currently needed to obtain a standard DL.

Edited July 1, 2017 by SantaFeFan

[SantaFeFan]

Not exactly true. You cannot fly into Canada or Mexico without a valid passport. And even driving across the Canadian border requires a Passport, Passport Card, etc. While you can cruise to some places, such as Bermuda and the Bahamas, you do need a valid Passport if you fly into those countries. And it is the same in the Caribbean. Exceptions are made by many islands for cruisers...but only cruisers.

 

Hank

 

Correct. We were in Alaska last week and rode the White Pass and Yukon train into Canada territory. Everyone on board had to display a passport when immigration came through. However, we did not need to display it when entering the US when returning to port on the tour bus.

 

But, when we entered Victoria, BC during our stop there, we did not need to show our passports since we were on a cruise ship, nor did we need to have them with us - they stayed in the safe that day.

[CPT Trips]

Part of the intent behind the REAL ID act is to enhance ID security at the point of issue to make it more difficult to make a phony ID. Once the act goes into total affect you will need a REAL ID compliant ID to enter property under Federal jurisdiction (i.e. a license with the gold star upon it). That's the stick for states being non-compliant I suppose.

 

I actually do not care whether or not fellow pax or people entering a federal building have valid ID. What I want is for them not to have weapons, explosives, and/or incendiaries. Valid ID doesn't prevent bad people with bad things.

[sparks1093]

I actually do not care whether or not fellow pax or people entering a federal building have valid ID. What I want is for them not to have weapons, explosives, and/or incendiaries. Valid ID doesn't prevent bad people with bad things.

 

I agree but Congress decided that state issued ID's need enhanced security measures so now we have REAL ID.

[Keith1010]

Thanks for sharing the link.

 

A good reminder for those in the affected states.

 

Keith

[NMLady]

... When they become available next January, we will have to appear in person to request the new DL, bringing the additional necessary documentation which is more stringent than what is currently needed to obtain a standard DL.

 

The documentation needed for Real ID really is more stringent. This month when I renew my license I have to show Social Security card, birth certificate or passport and two proofs of residency such as utility bill, rental agreement, or mortgage bill, or property tax bill, or credit card statement, all within last 60 days.

Last year I only had to show the license I'm renewing.

Thank goodness that next year that's all I'll again have to show since my license will have a star, denoting it's Real ID. (Here in NM after age 75 we have to renew annually.)

[sail7seas]

Does that mean people without real id will be exempt from federal jury duty since they won't be able to enter the building?

 

Wow... that is a good question. I wonder the answer.

 

According to a link posted in this thread we're down to two states. One if the 2 states, Michigan, offers enhanced driver's license. Citizens have that option.

if you get the answer, please post it. :D

[Underwatr]

We fly frequently from Pennsylvania (Philly) to South Carolina (Myrtle Beach) but our residence is in Delaware. What are the odds of someone flying to/from two states that are on the list?

 

This means we don't NEED a passport to fly because of our residence, but of course we do have one, and also a passport card.

 

I agree that all of these states have had more than enough time to get their act together.

Many of the non-compliant states have privacy protections against providing personal information into a national database and these protections need to be reversed before they can take the steps to be named as compliant.

 

The linked article is also inaccurate in that it's not the states that are requiring the passports to fly. It's a federal determination that those states' licenses aren't sufficiently secure to permit passing through a federal checkpoint.

[LondonTowner]

For a non-US citizen, what is a passport booklet? Those of us in Europe and other parts of the world have passports. I'm sure if you wanted to fly internationally you would need a 'proper' passport :)

And personally I find all this 'passport card/ ID/booklet' odd to say the least. We've had passports and driving licences since we were teenagers, as have most people outside the US.

Not being snarky, but why don't US citizens have passports if they want to travel??

Or do they not travel outside the US??

I have to agree with you. Why would you not have a passport. Yes, I know how big the US is as I have travelled all over. According to statistics only 36 per cent of US citizens hold a passport, which I find very strange.

 

For me, to travel to a foreign country is an education and a pleasure to experience different cultures, food, languages etc.

 

We often see good deals on flights and travel at the last minute to other countries. Surely, from the east coast of US it is not that far to travel to a European destination, the same as many Europeans have long weekends in NYC.

[slidergirl]

I have to agree with you. Why would you not have a passport. Yes, I know how big the US is as I have travelled all over. According to statistics only 36 per cent of US citizens hold a passport, which I find very strange.

 

For me, to travel to a foreign country is an education and a pleasure to experience different cultures, food, languages etc.

 

We often see good deals on flights and travel at the last minute to other countries. Surely, from the east coast of US it is not that far to travel to a European destination, the same as many Europeans have long weekends in NYC.

 

I'm an American citizen and I agree with both of our foreign posters here. Yes, we are a huge country, geographically. I can even take a 7 hour flight to another state! For some reason, many US citizens are perfectly content to stay within our borders and not wander out of the country. I'm the only one in my extended family who has a passport. They live in rural Pennsylvania and have no desire to travel any further than Myrtle Beach or Las Vegas. Fine. Not having a passport isn't an issue they even think about. I wonder if any of our Canadian friends can comment on whether or not a Passport is a common item to have or if they are more like those in the US?

 

I've had a passport since my 20s. I just renewed back in February and added the Passport Card just to have as another piece of ID. I've had Global Entry for 6 years and I use my GE card as my ID instead of my DL in everyday life. I like it because it is a government-issued ID without any personal data on it.

 

My answer to someone's question about people buying passports then also buying GE: I doubt it will have much influence on the Pre-Check lines. Those who are forced into those passports probably have balked at paying "all that money" for the passport and aren't likely to want to spend even more money on the GE. We've seen some excuses here that it costs too much money for the family to get passports, so a family of 4 isn't going to want to spend $400 more to speed their way through the "Smurf Show" at the airport (don't let them know about the secret GE exits at some ports!!)

[sparks1093]

I have to agree with you. Why would you not have a passport. Yes, I know how big the US is as I have travelled all over. According to statistics only 36 per cent of US citizens hold a passport, which I find very strange.

 

For me, to travel to a foreign country is an education and a pleasure to experience different cultures, food, languages etc.

 

We often see good deals on flights and travel at the last minute to other countries. Surely, from the east coast of US it is not that far to travel to a European destination, the same as many Europeans have long weekends in NYC.

 

I suspect that the main reason most US citizens don't travel/have a passport is simple- cost. When we were raising our family travel was limited to what we could do in the car, flying anywhere was cost prohibitive. When we did start traveling we were doing 4 day closed loop cruises and the expense of getting passports was close to what the cruise cost so after analyzing the risks we decided to wait to get passports until we actually needed them for the type of travel we could do. (And the latest statistic from the State Dept is 46% of US citizens have passports.)

[LondonTowner]

slidergirl

 

Passports are also expensive in the U.K., but I don't know anybody who doesn't have one. Many schools here take pupils abroad at the end of the summer term. This can be a day trip to France a week somewhere or even a ski trip. In the school where I worked we ad an exchange programme with a school in Japan.

 

My first time travelling abroad was also many years ago with the school. We did a tour of Italy visiting Florence, Rome and many other places.

 

I couldn't imagine my life without foreign travel. We returned from a cruise last weekend and are going to France next weekend. My OH works so we go on Saturday and come home Sunday.

 

It means we can buy lots of French wine, which is much cheaper than in U.K. and eat some good French food.

 

 

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[sparks1093]

slidergirl

 

Passports are also expensive in the U.K., but I don't know anybody who doesn't have one. Many schools here take pupils abroad at the end of the summer term. This can be a day trip to France a week somewhere or even a ski trip. In the school where I worked we ad an exchange programme with a school in Japan.

 

My first time travelling abroad was also many years ago with the school. We did a tour of Italy visiting Florence, Rome and many other places.

 

I couldn't imagine my life without foreign travel. We returned from a cruise last weekend and are going to France next weekend. My OH works so we go on Saturday and come home Sunday.

 

It means we can buy lots of French wine, which is much cheaper than in U.K. and eat some good French food.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

Schools around here take kids up to Canada for field trips to the zoo, etc. and the kids don't need passports. If a school arranges a trip overseas it's on the family's dime, including arranging all of the necessary paperwork such as passports, which brings us back to my previous post and many families can't afford that expense so the kids don't go.

[SantaFeFan]

Here are a couple of images of the US superimposed over Europe just to add a visual aid to compare the size of each. I found this fascinating when I first saw it years ago. One thing of particular note is that several US states are larger than the majority of European countries. While Europeans can drive through one or more countries in a single day, for US residents, we would only pass through a relative few states in the same amount of time. For example, it would take over 15 hours just to drive the 997 miles of California between it's two furthest borders.

 

Because the US as one country is so large, it is understandable that many US residents find ample travel opportunities within it's borders, all without the need for a passport.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by SantaFeFan

[LondonTowner]

SantaFeFan

 

Europeans are quite aware that the US is a very large country and is diverse. I know I have travelled quite extensively there, but what a pity not to experience different things by travelling.

 

I have learnt so much on my travels, it has to be one of the best forms of education.