UPDATE: Azamara Journey October 2018 sailings

[rallydave]

Thanks for chiming in Bonnie. So for all the errors that have occurred on azamara's part as identified by many of us, you aren't going to pass them on to the appropriate people in Miami?? Not talking about items outside Azamara control or general unhappiness. I'm talking about absolute errors in the letter sent out that will cause problems for you soon and in the future.

 

We are working with the highest levels at our travel agencies and they have expressed extreme displeasure with the way this has been handled and how both they and their clients have been treated and have been in contact with their counterparts at Azamara.

 

Azamara does owe us correct information as well as handling this in a fair manner for all of us.

 

It's a lot more than finding a cruise we will be happy on, it's getting accurate information and being treated fairly and not one sided for either party as it currently is toward Azamara.

 

Just noticed your response about forwarding the issues and thanks for that. As to the arbitrary removal from the mailing list, that is a failing on the part of the IT Department and not intentionally done to anybody as far as I know. Do know for a fact that I am not alone in being dropped from the mailing list and quite a few people have expressed that problem. Goes back to the IT Department which has many problems and challenges.

 

Thanks

 

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Edited August 11, 2017 by rallydave

[BBMacLaird]

I have already forwarded the issues noted on this thread.

[papa B me]

From probably the most vociferous person posting on this issue I want to thank you for your message and feel I need to clarify some of your points so that you have a better idea of what we are going thru so I have posted my comments after the points I have comments on.

 

Your post is excellent and had we not gone thru this most of what you wrote would have been our feelings.

 

Thank you Dave!. As always your insight is greatly appreciated.

[rallydave]

Dave, I see that you're on Uniworld. We did the Rhine/Moselle with them two years ago and I loved it--I think I prefer river cruising to ocean cruising. My husband needs his sea days, though. And his golf, hence Azamara :)

 

Hope you enjoy it! It was some of the best service we've ever had. And have some pistachio ice cream for me--it was my favorite!

 

Thanks hiccups, love the name. We are actually on the Rhine/Moselle with Uniworld and know we will enjoy that in combination with the new TA that we will book to get back to the US.

 

And to Cruise Junky, yes, the fact that Azamara chose to accept this charter to probably increase profitability which is not a problem, is part of the problem. No matter if out of their control or not, communications to customers is an important part of being a profitable business. Putting out an almost completely inaccurate and unfair document and then requiring the TA to actually ask for it and not provide it is the problem and failure to recognize the issues is a huge problem.

 

Found out today that the UK people have a deadline to make a decision yet there is no such date on the US version, at least the one that went to our TA and another person who has seen the letter. This means that all of the TA's who received that letter have until sailing to accept one of the choices. Know we need to have a deadline however that is Azamara's responsibility to provide and if push came to shove, a court would decide against Azamara for sure. Not saying we plan on any of this and are planning on making a decision within a reasonable amount of time except as Uktok stated, we all probably have until the end of August to make that decision so not protecting the booked space that we in good conscience made is just plain wrong. Bet we could fill up a page or two with all of the identified problems from all of us and fixing those problems will go a long way to helping the people who are scurrying like their heads are cut off get the job done easier and not having to repeat all they have been doing when the errors are corrected.

[Tartanbuster]

I’m afraid the cruise lines hold all the cards......

 

No they don't.......

 

We hold the Ace's.......by being able to book with any other cruise line, lots of them just as good, and many a lot better than Azamara.

 

That available choice, if we take it, is a win for us and a loss for Azamara........hence, game over for them!

[Snow day]

My TA has just sent a copy of the letter she received from Azamara ( they indicated to her that we would get a letter from them as well but I'm not holding my breath). The info is has been shared before but they have offered us 3 alternate sailings to replace our Monte Carlo to Barcelona which was b2b with the old TA. These new offerings dont link up with the new TA, they are in September and early October. They are not offering us the intensive Spain ( Barcelona to Lisbon) which is the pre cruise to the TA so obviously not interested in our b2b bookings.

[goofysmom99]

Last night, I forwarded the contents of the letter posted here to my agent who left on a cruise this morning. I had initially thought I would continue with the new Transatlantic, but then I spent quite a bit of time this afternoon looking at other TAs. Turns out there are some really interesting options I need to explore further before making up my mind. Many more days for not a lot more money. And I can focus on cruises that originate in cities easier to fly in and out of than Lisbon.

[rallydave]

Last night, I forwarded the contents of the letter posted here to my agent who left on a cruise this morning. I had initially thought I would continue with the new Transatlantic, but then I spent quite a bit of time this afternoon looking at other TAs. Turns out there are some really interesting options I need to explore further before making up my mind. Many more days for not a lot more money. And I can focus on cruises that originate in cities easier to fly in and out of than Lisbon.

 

 

 

Take a look at seabourn. They leave Barcelona and do the canarys ruth an additional stop plus an overnight then head to Lisbon continuing to end in Barbados. 24 nites a bit more expensive and have to fly home from Barbados but covers the Azamara ports of Azamara and more. Pretty sure we will be booking it. Just need to make sure will be available to book on board seabourn in early November.

 

 

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[LuAnn]

Well as one of those impacted by this cancellation/re-design of the T/A this is just sounding worse and worse!! I have SBC and a discount all because I booked early and had a discount from booking on board via my LCV status. Where do those discounts go?? Do they just disappear? Not fair in my book! And they are selling our cabins to others before we have any opportunity to decide how to proceed??? PLUS the rate for the cabin is the same and I'm on board for 14 instead of 17 nights??? Azamara...you must be kidding right? Color me "not a happy camper" right now!!! :mad: LuAnn

[fernem]

You are correct Our stateroom is available to book on the transatlantic and we have only just received our options letter and could be considering continuing with our booking. This is not on, all these rooms should have been protected until 31 August

 

I am fit to be tied! I am now on hold with Azamara demanding to talk with a supervisor. It's been a while. I believe they will just hang up on me shortly. I called about my 2018 Journey Transatlantic on what was supposed to be November 7th from Barcelona. I have not heard from my travel agent yet but have read the posted letter on cruise critic to find out my options. The woman I just spoke with, Marianna, told me I have until August 28th to make a decision about whether to keep the new sailing on October 23rd but she said, and the reason for my request for a supervisor, that since it was a new sailing, my club continent suite ... which I chose carefully while onboard my Southampton to Montreal trip last September ... was in fact available right now and could not be held until I make a decision. I so fell in love with Azamara, we have six reservations with Azamara between now and the end of 2019. I am heartbroken they will be so disloyal to me as to do this.

Update: just got off the phone with a supervisor, Pamela, who was infuriatingly trying to explain to me that this was a new October 23rd sailing so all cabins were fair game. She has agreed to hold my cabin, 8052, for a few days. Since I haven't heard from my travel agent, none of this would have been known by me if not for cruise critic! Whatever your sailing, if you are considering their offer to take the new sailing, call and get them to hold your cabin if you care. I find this way of treating loyal customers appalling. Surely three changed sailings represents a loyal base that should be respectfully treated!

Fern

Edited August 11, 2017 by fernem

[Snow cat]

In the interest of complete fairness, while I was sending the below post, my TA did get back to me with an answer to my 2 questions...good job TA and Azamara!!!

 

Here are the answers direct from Azamara to my TA:

 

Yes, to question 1 and 2. Same pricing $ 5133.90 and an additional $500.

 

This may go with this... turning lemons into lemonade!

 

I am in the same situation - had a 7 day booked (loved the itinerary but oh well) and have now switched over to one of the options offered of a 9 day (also a great itinerary) at the same price plus $500. So I too am looking at it as making lemonade.

 

Sorry for those affected adversely though.

[tazza_0712]

I've been following along, I'm disappointed for those of you affected by these poorly managed changes.

 

It's not clear to me if this is the case, but I am certainly hoping that those with sailings that have become shorter, like the TA, have received a pro-rated discount of their existing fare. Is this the case?

 

 

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[goofysmom99]

 

It's not clear to me if this is the case, but I am certainly hoping that those with sailings that have become shorter, like the TA, have received a pro-rated discount of their existing fare. Is this the case?

 

 

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No. No proration, just a shorter cruise at the same fare. That's why there are so many unhappy campers right now.

[rallydave]

No check the offer which I posted early in the thread. Take the offered replacement(s) at the same price you paid. Take any other cruise and pay the posted rate. Both options include a small amount of OBC.

 

 

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[tazza_0712]

That's not good enough.

 

There are those that have swapped to longer cruises for the same cost (and good on them) - but those affected in the reverse should be compensated further.

 

How can such a small company not have thought this through properly? One of the perceived advantages of sailing with a small company is that you shouldn't just be treated like another number. It seems as though the shipboard service is in line with this, yet head office just can't get their act together.

 

Ridiculous. I hope that something better comes of this for all of you negatively affected by these developments.

 

 

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[laurieb]

Please please please have your TA if you used one or you contact Azamara and discuss your options with them. If you don't voice to them what you want you certainly won't get it. Negotiate and give them a chance to make it right.

 

 

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[uktog]

Well as one of those impacted by this cancellation/re-design of the T/A this is just sounding worse and worse!! I have SBC and a discount all because I booked early and had a discount from booking on board via my LCV status. Where do those discounts go?? Do they just disappear? Not fair in my book! And they are selling our cabins to others before we have any opportunity to decide how to proceed??? PLUS the rate for the cabin is the same and I'm on board for 14 instead of 17 nights??? Azamara...you must be kidding right? Color me "not a happy camper" right now!!! :mad: LuAnn

 

I think that's a very good summary of the issues. Two more you could add in, bookings made during an upgrade promotion and consecutive cruisers who now have an orphan cruise.

 

Tazza, your point about a small organisation is valid, perhaps I now see this small organisation differently particularly as Bonnie was painting a picture of behind the scenes work overload. Maybe we have a naive organisation who did not think through the consequences and impact on others - staff and customers- when it chose to follow an alternative profit driven course. Corporate history and organisation behaviour studies show many fail to grow effectively by losing sight of what should be mattering to them.

 

OK - puts academic hat back in the drawer!

[excitedofharpenden]

Well as one of those impacted by this cancellation/re-design of the T/A this is just sounding worse and worse!! I have SBC and a discount all because I booked early and had a discount from booking on board via my LCV status. Where do those discounts go?? Do they just disappear? Not fair in my book! And they are selling our cabins to others before we have any opportunity to decide how to proceed??? PLUS the rate for the cabin is the same and I'm on board for 14 instead of 17 nights??? Azamara...you must be kidding right? Color me "not a happy camper" right now!!! :mad: LuAnn

A good summary and very poor by Azamara I feel. Not covering themselves in glory here at all. It's almost as though they want those already booked to cancel it. I don't have a horse in this race, but for interest priced the "new" transatlantic as a new booking and for what essentially is a repo cruise it's crazy money!

 

Phil

[Lottie A]

I think that's a very good summary of the issues. Two more you could add in, bookings made during an upgrade promotion and consecutive cruisers who now have an orphan cruise.

 

Tazza, your point about a small organisation is valid, perhaps I now see this small organisation differently particularly as Bonnie was painting a picture of behind the scenes work overload. Maybe we have a naive organisation who did not think through the consequences and impact on others - staff and customers- when it chose to follow an alternative profit driven course. Corporate history and organisation behaviour studies show many fail to grow effectively by losing sight of what should be mattering to them.

 

OK - puts academic hat back in the drawer!

 

Excellent post Ann and you, Luann and Tazza summarise what many Azamara loyalists are thinking recently.

 

We all know the onboard experience is still fantastic but there seems to be a new "profit first" culture emerging that is alienating many devoted fans. Selling already booked cabins to others before those affected by the changes are able to decide on their options is just plain WRONG. Someone senior at Azamara needs to rethink this decision urgently. I would be livid if I was on the affected cruises. A few years ago I was affected by having two Azamara cruises cancelled in one week, one due to the fire on Quest and one because of an extended dry dock. I must say that Azamara treated everyone very fairly then. We were completely recompensed and allowed to choose any other cruise at the same price we had paid for our TA. Seems the bean counters are now in charge and this fair treatment no longer applies.

 

I really hope things work out for everyone affected by the changes/cancellations, but if not, then don't forget there are many other cruising options out there. I love the onboard experience so much but I am not blind to the faults of Miami management and I am worried about the direction that Azamara seems to be taking now. As Phil says, the price increases are insane for a repo cruise and this is true for many cruises in 2018/19.

[excitedofharpenden]

I'm afraid all the "special" Azamara deals that are put out there now only serve to make this even more complicated and a muddle.

 

Phil

[nordski]

While talking to the Future Cruise Officer on Journey last week we wondered why our booking for October 6, 2018, had disappeared. However, we were able to book the next cruise out of Venice, although it too is apparently now gone.

 

Some thoughts:

 

1/ Disappointingly, our TA has not been informed about the changes and out options. Perhaps those will be as poor and unacceptable as some suggest.

 

2/ I think uktog's comment about possible naivety at the head office may be insightful for several reasons:

 

a/ There was a change at the COO position within the past month. Keeping in mind that correlation doesn't prove causation, and this change in itineraries may have been planned for some time, despite any previous experience a new executive might not anticipate the strong feeling of loyalty on the part of Azamara veterans and the resultant disappointment. I always recall our first CBO's (Bill Leiber) reference to the "tough love" felt by said veterans when the cruise line's effort was seen to be well short of the mark.

 

b/ The problem of rebooking is worsened, of course, by the limited options on a small fleet and the rise in basic prices. The former is perhaps the greatest issue, as switching on Celebrity wouldn't pose the same problems.

 

3/ Although it directly affects fewer clients, this storm of controversy seems to approximate that which occurred when Larry P. moved Azamara to a "more inclusive" programme. Others are watching, though, to see if this issue results in a more equitable offer, or if our faith in Azamara "making things right" may be misplaced.

 

There have been very reasonable posts on this forum that I think have clearly delineated the problem(s) and others that, in my view, have perhaps been less than dispassionate. I think Bonnie is following the appropriate course by forwarding the concerns to management. Thanks to her for doing that.

 

In the end, in our view it's "just a cruise" although, being retired, we have more flexibility in changing plans. On the other hand perhaps at our age our options may be closing down :).

 

I do hope that management revisits their offers and addresses the problems entailed.

[rallydave]

While talking to the Future Cruise Officer on Journey last week we wondered why our booking for October 6, 2018, had disappeared. However, we were able to book the next cruise out of Venice, although it too is apparently now gone.

 

Some thoughts:

 

1/ Disappointingly, our TA has not been informed about the changes and out options. Perhaps those will be as poor and unacceptable as some suggest.

 

2/ I think uktog's comment about possible naivety at the head office may be insightful for several reasons:

 

a/ There was a change at the COO position within the past month. Keeping in mind that correlation doesn't prove causation, and this change in itineraries may have been planned for some time, despite any previous experience a new executive might not anticipate the strong feeling of loyalty on the part of Azamara veterans and the resultant disappointment. I always recall our first CBO's (Bill Leiber) reference to the "tough love" felt by said veterans when the cruise line's effort was seen to be well short of the mark.

 

b/ The problem of rebooking is worsened, of course, by the limited options on a small fleet and the rise in basic prices. The former is perhaps the greatest issue, as switching on Celebrity wouldn't pose the same problems.

 

3/ Although it directly affects fewer clients, this storm of controversy seems to approximate that which occurred when Larry P. moved Azamara to a "more inclusive" programme. Others are watching, though, to see if this issue results in a more equitable offer, or if our faith in Azamara "making things right" may be misplaced.

 

There have been very reasonable posts on this forum that I think have clearly delineated the problem(s) and others that, in my view, have perhaps been less than dispassionate. I think Bonnie is following the appropriate course by forwarding the concerns to management. Thanks to her for doing that.

 

In the end, in our view it's "just a cruise" although, being retired, we have more flexibility in changing plans. On the other hand perhaps at our age our options may be closing down :).

 

I do hope that management revisits their offers and addresses the problems entailed.

 

Excellent post Nordski and have been asking for your last sentence to occur as well.

 

As to your item 1 regarding notification to your TA and yourself. We notified our TA on Thursday and the VP of the company took it upon himself to contact Azamara where unbelievably was told that notifications were going out only upon request of the TA so that is how we got our hands on the actual unacceptable letter.

 

Based on the letter provided, it is a canned offer not personalized at all of which most of the contents have been posted on CC. Have no doubt that your TA will receive the identical offer some of us in the US have already received and the identical canned offer.

 

Am hoping the fact that they haven't sent this almost completely unacceptable letter when it was available on Thursday when our TA forced them to send it, hopefully there has been a realization within the Azamara office that an errors were made when the letter was created and that they are working on an updated personal letter that takes into account the manny variances in situations such that the one size fits all offer needs to be personalized to be fair. To be honest, the only thing most of us want is a fair offer to both Azamara and us. The current letter is almost completely one sided in favor of Azamara.

 

And to Bonnies earlier comment: I started in a cruise line marketing department back in 1983 (34 years now!) Itinerary changes, unexpected dry-dockings, close-in charters, missed ports due to weather or politics, airline or longshoreman strikes, etc etc, have always been part of the deal. They are never good news for the booked guests. Nor for the line's maritime planners, human resources, shorex planners, sales team, marketing team, international offices, etc...the whole lot.

 

While the above comment is accurate and describes conditions out of Azamara's control, the current issue is fully within Azamara's control as they created the issues by entering into the charter evidently without considering the unintended consequences to many loyal customers and failed to develop a fair compensation package before signing the charter contract. Yes, the above occurances are part of the deal but, when these occurences are planned and not unplanned they don't always have to be good news for the booked guests and staff. Planning ahead of time and avoiding unintended consequences is the mark of an excellent company.

 

Still hopeful that while working to rebook guests, they are also creating a fair replacement for the letter some of us have already received.

[Riocca]

Something that has troubled me for a while is where Azamara actually fit in the giant Royal Caribbean Corporation as a very small cog in a gigantic wheel. Now I'm wondering if despite the best intentions of Azamara management this is something that's being driven by the RCC hierarchy.

With the introduction of "The Suite Life" on Celebrity is the corporate thinking that we should all be migrating to that concept? I've seen and experienced something similar with Carnival UK where "Corporate" decided that traditional P&O passengers should move to Cunard allowing P&O to go mass market and attract younger passengers, it didn't work and we don't now travel with either.

Hopefully I'm wrong as we enjoy the Azamara product but ten years on Azamara is not growing and seems far away from Royal Caribbean's core business.

We have experienced major changes / cancellations to cruises for two years following, resulting in us booking cruises with other lines who previously we woudn't have concidered, not the best way to grow a business.

[nordski]

Excellent post Nordski and have been asking for your last sentence to occur as well.

 

As to your item 1 regarding notification to your TA and yourself. We notified our TA on Thursday and the VP of the company took it upon himself to contact Azamara where unbelievably was told that notifications were going out only upon request of the TA so that is how we got our hands on the actual unacceptable letter.

 

Based on the letter provided, it is a canned offer not personalized at all of which most of the contents have been posted on CC. Have no doubt that your TA will receive the identical offer some of us in the US have already received and the identical canned offer.

 

Am hoping the fact that they haven't sent this almost completely unacceptable letter when it was available on Thursday when our TA forced them to send it, hopefully there has been a realization within the Azamara office that an errors were made when the letter was created and that they are working on an updated personal letter that takes into account the manny variances in situations such that the one size fits all offer needs to be personalized to be fair.

 

Still hopeful that while working to rebook guests, they are also creating a fair replacement for the letter some of us have already received.

 

Thanks for your positive comment.

 

I guess that I'm hoping that this is a Comm's Officer's worst nightmare when information circulates prior to the establishment of a clear strategy to present said information. And perhaps, as you suggest, the letter they were "forced to send" concerning possible compensation was released before a complete vetting process had taken place. That is perhaps the best possible interpretation, that this is not a totally a substantive issue but more of a procedural one.

 

Regardless, it has been exceptionally informative to read about the seriously negative impact upon individual's plans and I appreciate the time and effort that you, and they, have sacrificed to post. Time and effort that should have been expended in more positive ways.

 

Of course, I agree totally with your final statement. We are on a cruise in the spring, a cruise which was also the result of a charter altering our plans. In that case, we felt we were dealt with in a very fair manner. We hope to have the same reaction to this situation as well.

[sabbo55]

Well there is still a lot of work to be done by Azamara.

 

I'm trying to decide on my offered options. One issue is shore excursions. The cruises in my offered options have the wrong shore excursion brochure on line. I think we should have all the information needed to make our decisions.

 

Still, unlike most here, I do have options that turn out better for me.