Just Business Or Demise of Ethics?

[Potstech]

There is a reason most cruise ships are registered somewhere else other than the US. It is because many of the laws people are quoting do not necessarily apply to them. So all the Cruise Critic lawyers may/may not apply to the cruise company. And will remain that way until the individual complaint is resolved in a court of law. Othetwise it is all just speculation.

[Optotronics]

There is a reason most cruise ships are registered somewhere else other than the US. It is because many of the laws people are quoting do not necessarily apply to them. So all the Cruise Critic lawyers may/may not apply to the cruise company. And will remain that way until the individual complaint is resolved in a court of law. Othetwise it is all just speculation.

I don't think there's any speculation.

I didn't put the terms that on the coffee card there, they did and it's their responsibility to abide by their own terms on the card. If they want to change their terms, then they need to have cards printed with their new terms and let the old cards run out their course.

[memoak]

Why would you need a coffee card if you have the PBP - all coffees are covered with the PBP

[CU64]

The coffee cards got wet when his wallet got wet. They were either wet when presented or were damaged from the water. How hard is this to understand? Is this really such a serious “ethical” problem from Princess to spend a thread on it?

Damaged goods are usually refused anywhere.

[kendon]

IMHO coffee cards purchased onboard are subject to Federal Trade Commission laws on gift cards as outlined here. See the paragraph below from the FTC website:

 

Money on a gift card cannot expire for at least five years from the date the card was purchased, or from the last date any additional money was loaded onto the card. If the expiration date listed on the card is earlier than these dates, the money can be transferred to a replacement card at no cost.

Even a ship not registered in the U.S.?

[Micahs Grandad]

OP sorry they did this to you. Think a strongly worded letter to a Princess mucky much is in order/

 

Just off the Grand in February. We had no problem using an old coffee card and than managed to run it thru a wash cycle in laundry.

 

It was taped back together and did show 6 punches were left and they had no problem letting me use it up.

[grouchomarx]

The coffee cards got wet when his wallet got wet. They were either wet when presented or were damaged from the water. How hard is this to understand? Is this really such a serious “ethical” problem from Princess to spend a thread on it?

Damaged goods are usually refused anywhere.

 

If your money got wet would you throw it away? Wet does not equal damaged. I think they should have honored them so long as they could be read and the punches were clearly visible. Sounds like the OP got a jerk handling their situation. It's just coffee, not like they had vouchers for Rolex watches or something. These little things make Princess seem petty and cheap.

[-Lew-]

Even a ship not registered in the U.S.?

I know what you're getting at, but coffee cards can be purchased online on the Princess website which is likely hosted within the USA with payment processing also within the USA. Coffee cards can also be purchased onboard within the territorial waters of the USA. In both examples these purchases would likely be subject to US law regardless of where the ship is registered.

 

I'd like to see a legal opinion on this. Legal opinion or not, I agree with the OP that Princess is just not playing fair.

[nukesubsailor]

Well that explains it .

It was not that the CC from other cruises were not honored .

Damaged CC's were not honored .

 

Wrong. The beverage manager said the policy now was that coffee cards are only good on the cruise they were purchased on.

[nukesubsailor]

It seems to me that the coffee cards are now use it or lose it. Sorry you didn't get to use them when you first did the exchange. Since you can afford a suite I wouldn't sweat having to pay more for bottles of wine and a few cans of soda. Maybe pick up a case of soda on the way to the port next time.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The fact that I saved up so I could afford a suite has absolutely no bearing on anything. What I don't like is being sold a product consisting of certain items and then later not getting all the items I was promised I would get for my cost.

[Host CJSKIDS]

The fact that I saved up so I could afford a suite has absolutely no bearing on anything. What I don't like is being sold a product consisting of certain items and then later not getting all the items I was promised I would get for my cost.

 

I totally understand. That was my exact feeling when I chose and purchased the All Inclusive Beverage package 3 months prior to my sailing only to have them give me their new watered down version which was not what I purchased.

 

I'm sorry this happened to you. It would have been nice if they would have done something for you while on board. I would definitely email customer relations in regards to this.

[nukesubsailor]

OK I know I said I would shut up but this is getting a little nuts.

 

All you legal beagles need to note that the coffee cards in question were obtained by the OP by trading in his mini-bar set ups--not by a distinct monetary (or cash-equivalent) transaction for the advertised value(*).

 

In order to ascribe a transaction value (not a face value, as that is irrelevant) to the receipt of the card from Princess the OP would have to have a paper trail going back to on which specific cruise he facilitated the trade-in, and which cards were obtained in exchange for the Elite mini-bar versus obtained for the Suite mini-bar. Follow by proof that at the time of embarkation (not time of booking, but the precise time the OP was handed the cards) Princess was contractually obligated to provide such a perk under the terms of either booking a suite or the administrative terms of the Captains Circle membership organization, and there is a measurable transaction value (again, face value irrelevant) as a portion of the OP's original consideration (the cruise fare paid).

 

Bottom line is that legally the coffee card is just a piece of paper. If Princess wants to claim that those acquired not via cash purchase have no future value they not only have the right but the logic attempted to be applied in the above posts is actually on their side.

 

And I will just add that the OP post is not about money or entitlement. Just understandable disappointment at how the strict application of multiple cumulative policies comes across as so negative. Seems everyone on this board (including maybe myself in my first response) may have only seen the harsh language and not the legitimate frustration that was the intent of this report.

 

[(*)Which under contract law the ads for the coffee card on the website and/or in the cruise personalizer are not offers to sell at that price, just solicitations to inquire. Thus impossible to ascribe a value to one provided by trading in another item which has no listed value, not even in company advertising]

 

Very well stated!!!!

As to what happened to my 4 wet coffee cards. They were last seen in the hands of the passenger services desk agent as I just walked away in frustration after he repeated what the beverage manager told him about the new policy. I have no plan to request any compensation for the cards. I will just make sure that the loss of the value of the cards is more than covered by the loss of revenue Princess will receive from me in the future.

[Optotronics]

I hope princess is following this.

There are going to be a lot of unhappy repeat customers when they try to use their coffee cards that explicitly state terms that are NOT being abided to by princess.

[Justprettynpink]

"†Unlimited brewed coffee and teas included with the New Grounds Coffee Card are only available on the voyage on which the New Grounds Coffee Card was purchased. Unused card punches for New Grounds specialty drinks will be honored on future voyages. Terms and conditions may apply."

Princess Website

[MCC retired]

Wrong. The beverage manager said the policy now was that coffee cards are only good on the cruise they were purchased on.

 

 

 

Confused?

Other than this Topic,

Every Coffee Card Topic still mentions punch’s are still good on next voyage unless they are the new ones with expiration dates ?

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[voljeep]

to the OP...did you even try to use the cards at the IC or MDR?

 

when exactly did these cards get wet?

 

why did you let Passenger services keep your cards?

[moki'smommy]

Just my opinion....Princess desk personnel should have handed back the wet cards which should have been good for the punches. There is no reason I can see that these punches wouldn't be valid provided the cards were as described. They would not be good for unlimited brewed coffee or tea on any cruise as the cruise where they were obtained is over.

 

However, OP is out nothing as he did not need the cards on the current cruise--had premium beverage package. And if he isn't cruising Princess again, he could never choose to use the cards for specialty coffees. I guess the only possible loss would be the joy of giving the cards or the lattes to someone else or whatever gain he might have anticipated from selling these cards. Is that what this is about? They can't be sold because they are no longer pretty and Princess wouldn't trade the for pretty ones?

 

As to the switch in beverage packages--bad move on Princess' part, but it was announced and could have been known in advance. If I PAID for the package and it was switched, I'd be really torked. If it was part of a booking perk, the booking could have been changed when the package change was announced. Unfortunately, changing the package IS within the fine print on the contract.

 

And yes, protesting with your feet is your only recourse.

[Cruise-Crazzy]

I do not think Princess is obligated to replace the damaged cards. They are the OP's property and in his possession. He has the responsibility to keep them safe and secure. If you purchase a drink and spill the drink is Princess obligated to replace that drink?

[StknCPA]

Why do so many Americans waltz around the world thinking US law is applicable? You see this not only on cruise ships but on land in other countries.

 

Before you ask: yes, I am an American.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Forums mobile app

[rocky1]

Interesting discussion, but back to the original question. My answer: demise of ethics. Ethical business practices do not include failure to keep your promises or changing the rules in the middle of the game. That being said, it seems OP's coffee card issue most likely was just poor handling by on-board management rather than corporate policy. (At least I hope so.)

[vmom]

Boy princess is really taking the excitement out of our cruise in a few weeks:(

First they remove the water package and then they do the right thing and return it.

Then they take away happy hour.

Now the coffee card I have with one punch on it is no longer valid??? Kind of like stealing $30 from me. I paid for my card, it wasn't a free perk. Last cruise we both got a coffee card, but just used the wife's card most of time. We got as far as using her entire card, but only one punch from mine.

I just looked at the terms printed on the back of the card and it states.

"Unused specialty coffees redeemable on next voyage. Complimentary coffe/tea only applicable to voyage of purchase."

I'm getting a feeling of dread as to what else is "at risk" of being lost in the remaining 3 weeks until our cruise.

This is wrong.

 

Just got off the Royal. I brought with me several of my old coffee cards with punches. No problem using them. I bought a latte every day with the old cards and it was always accepted.

 

I think the problem with this particular case is that the OP asked for replacements of his cards. Punches on old cards are still being accepted with no problems.

[vmom]

I do not think Princess is obligated to replace the damaged cards. They are the OP's property and in his possession. He has the responsibility to keep them safe and secure. If you purchase a drink and spill the drink is Princess obligated to replace that drink?

 

Good point. I know that is a coffee card is lost, Princess does not replace it. So I guess the same principle applies if they are damaged.

[vmom]

We are also somewhat shocked to read the posts about coffee cards. Perhaps we should review and post exactly what is written on those old cards:

 

"Unused specialty coffees redeemable on next voyage. Complimentary coffee/tea only applicable to voyage of purchase"

 

These cards are defacto written contracts. Under contract law you have purchased (called "consideration" under law) the card and are entitled to the benefits as written on that card. While Princess has every write to change the terms of new cards or even eliminate the cards entirely, they are bound by the contractual terms of the previously issued cards.

 

We wonder if there is some misunderstanding on some ships....or if Princess is unilaterally breaking the terms of a contract. Perhaps the folks who have been denied the use of their cards need to send a polite (but firm) complaint directly to Jan Swartz's Office.

 

Hank

 

Hank, Thrank and other posters,

 

There is not problem using unused punches on old coffee cards. Did it twice on two recent cruises in the last 3 months.

The OP wanted the cards replaced, that was the issue.

 

They are still accepting unused punches on old cards.

[RDC1]

IMHO coffee cards purchased onboard are subject to Federal Trade Commission laws on gift cards as outlined here. See the paragraph below from the FTC website:

 

Money on a gift card cannot expire for at least five years from the date the card was purchased, or from the last date any additional money was loaded onto the card. If the expiration date listed on the card is earlier than these dates, the money can be transferred to a replacement card at no cost.

 

The federal law does not apply to paper cards. Sec 915(a)(2)(D)(v)

 

Cards Issued in Paper Form Only

 

This exclusion applies when the only means of issuing the card, code, or other device is in paper form. For example, the exclusion would not apply if a bar code or certificate number is provided to the consumer in electronic format and can be reproduced in paper form because the information necessary to redeem the value was initially issued to the consumer in electronic form.

It is also unclear if the clause concerning for sale to the general public would also apply since such cards are only for sale to passengers of Princess cruise line. If such is not considered for sale to the general public than they would also be excluded for coverage under federal law.

Edited March 2, 2018 by RDC1

[RDC1]

Why do so many Americans waltz around the world thinking US law is applicable? You see this not only on cruise ships but on land in other countries.

 

Before you ask: yes, I am an American.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Forums mobile app

 

Especially when the law they are mentioning would not apply even if they were totally in the US. They are in at least 1 and potentially 2 categories excluded from coverage by the law.