Just Business Or Demise of Ethics?

[dckmusic]

For me, I'd have taken the cards and tried to use them after they dried out.  If they still weren't taking them, I'd send a letter to Princess directly and state my disappointment and their response would dictate my next move.  If they apologized and provided some sort of credit, I'd be forgiving as things can happen.  If they responded (as a certain American Airline did many years ago) with a "sorry, that's just the way it is" I would respond by switching to a different cruise line.  

 

The idea that a card that clearly states it can be used on future cruises is no longer valid because of the rules at the new booking time is farcical.  When we change laws, we don't go back and arrest people for breaking the law before the law came into effect.  The card should be honored.  It is the principal of the thing, and while I might have done things a bit differently than the OP, I do agree with ethical argument.  And, really, they are risking losing what sounds like a long-term customer over $30 in coffee cards (of which the actual cost to Princess is less than $10)?  I'm sorry, but that is insane.

[elliair]

Those little bottles of alcohol and beer that suites and elites receive, is the same as the coffee card.  Use it or lose it.  We take the bottles home that we don't use.  We give the beer away and I exchange the sodas for diet Sprite.  If I don't drink the sodas, I leave them for the cabin steward.  I would never exchange my alcohol package for a coffee card, IMHO it's not worth it for us.  Horrid coffee!  We bring our own and be happy.

 

In our experience, Princess isn't going to do Jack for you.  Anything out of their pocket and into yours doesn't fly with them after the fact.  You've got to stay a head of them if you can.  We found that out with a complimentary dinner in the Steak House, and discovered we were charged on our S&S.  With paper from Princess in hand, a trip to the service desk took care of it.  I think they wait to see if you say anything.  Happened more than once, and we have the same situation coming up on our next cruise.  Paper work with you pays off.

Edited October 22, 2018 by elliair

[neverbeenhere]

OP: Surely you filled your luggage with cocktail napkins and straws to get even. 

 

 

 

Long Live the Rebellion. 

[elliair]

3 minutes ago, neverbeenhere said:

OP: Surely you filled your luggage with cocktail napkins and straws to get even. 

 

 

 

Long Live the Rebellion. 

 

Are you talking to me?  I don't use straws and have never seen straws in our cabin.  I like those napkins though, I stick them in my pocket when we go onshore.  Great little give aways, as I know it will break Princess if they get thrown away when we disembark.

 

I like that!  Long Live the Rebellion.!!!!  Works for me!

Edited October 22, 2018 by elliair

[pris993]

9 minutes ago, elliair said:

Those little bottles of alcohol and beer that suites and elites receive, is the same as the coffee card.  Use it or lose it.  We take the bottles home that we don't use.  We give the beer away and I exchange the sodas for diet Sprite.  If I don't drink the sodas, I leave them for the cabin steward.  I would never exchange my alcohol package for a coffee card, IMHO it's not worth it for us.  Horrid coffee!  We bring our own and be happy.

 

In our experience, Princess isn't going to do Jack for you.  Anything out of their pocket and into yours doesn't fly with them after the fact.  You've got to stay a head of them if you can.  We found that out with a complimentary dinner in the Steak House, and discovered we were charged on our S&S.  With paper from Princess in hand, a trip to the service desk took care of it.  I think they wait to see if you say anything.  Happened more than once, and we have the same situation coming up on our next cruise.  Paper work with you pays off.

 

I agree with you, always travel with paper work/documentation... plus I always check my statement every day or so, if anything is not right I deal with it.  Had experience on Princess where we were charged more for a bottle of wine in Sabatini's then we had signed off for... when I questioned it the response was the wine listed was out of date, price was wrong.  I said, too bad  not my problem, update list, refund my money... took 3 days was done before I left the ship.   Princess is not alone, have had charges on Celebrity for drinks we did not order, when I questioned it with our waiter in BLU, the waiter said we did order... I told no we did not ... talked to manager and got a refund.    Pays to stay on top of them... they count on folks being careless and not paying attention.    After 65 cruises we know what we are doing... smile.  Happy cruising.  

[bemis12]

4 hours ago, petefooter said:

I came across this feed while wrestling with the reality of enjoying an amazing experience but also having previously protested their ongoing abuse of labor laws sobering to think of the privilege I am born into and challenged in how to use it. 🙂

 

Try to avoid bumping really old threads when you're through crying about your privilege.

[Ombud]

On 3/1/2018 at 8:26 AM, Optotronics said:

Boy princess is really taking the excitement out of our cruise in a few weeks:(

First they remove the water package and then they do the right thing and return it.

Then they take away happy hour.

Now the coffee card I have with one punch on it is no longer valid??? Kind of like stealing $30 from me. I paid for my card, it wasn't a free perk. Last cruise we both got a coffee card, but just used the wife's card most of time. We got as far as using her entire card, but only one punch from mine.

I just looked at the terms printed on the back of the card and it states.

"Unused specialty coffees redeemable on next voyage. Complimentary coffe/tea only applicable to voyage of purchase."

I'm getting a feeling of dread as to what else is "at risk" of being lost in the remaining 3 weeks until our cruise.

This is wrong.

It would be wrong if true but it's not my experience.  (1) I've already stated my March 2018 cc was punched for "no longer complementary" coffee on June 2018 cruise. (2) when I called princess about my 6pm dining change to 5pm dining (now 7:15) she asked if I wanted to buy H2O. Small glitch in personalized corrected (affected tips corrected)

[RDC1]

3 hours ago, Potstech said:

 

They are not answerable to the FTC or many other of our agencies.  The ships are registered in a foriegn country for just that reason.

Not quite.  They are responsible for items sold in the US.  However, the FTC rules concerning gift cards that the person was referencing do not apply to paper cards only the electronic ones.  As such the FTC rules do not apply to Princess coffee cards.

[nukesubsailor]

5 hours ago, snowskier said:

I think it is interesting that OP “spent tens of thousands of dollars on a suite to become elite”. I though people spent money on a suite to enjoy the suite and the cruise, the perks and the bigger cabin. Just to become elite — beyond my comprehension.

 

I

Perhaps you would find it within your comprehension if you re-read the original post.  It clearly states that tens of thousands of dollars were spent to reach the Elite level of the Captains Circle loyalty club. It does not say all that money was spent on a suite just to become Elite.

[Bill B]

It's not 'just business'; or, 'the demise of ethics'. Cruise lines are businesses devoid of ethics. The bottom line is all that counts. They don't give a damn about their pax, their employees or the environment. The ONLY thing cruise lines care about is their shareholders.

 

They register their ship in ports of convenience to avoid humane labour laws... and paying taxes... not to mention, if a crime is committed on board in international waters (by officers, crew or pax), it is unlikely in the extreme it will ever be investigated, much less prosecuted. Sssssssssh....

 

They have, with the knowledge of their corporate executives - going all the way to the top - over a period of years, from multiple ships, illegally dumped oil at sea.... all the while claiming to be 'green'.

 

They encourage past pax to "Sign in for special pricing" on their websites in the duplicitous knowledge most people are naive and will interpret "special" to mean lower pricing... when it actually means higher pricing... Sucker! 'Smoke & mirrors' and obfuscation is accepted as 'marketing'. They push the boundaries of what's legal. When they overstep those boundaries, they don't care - the fine is less than the revenue generated... or the money they've saved.

 

Their reps lie.

 

They construct draconian Cruise Contracts in the knowledge the vast majority of pax don't, or can't read and understand them.

 

They don't care if they sell you an All Inclusive Beverage Package (AIBP), but deliver a (lesser value) Premium Beverage Package. The Terms and Conditions under which you bought the AIBP, stated the Terms and Conditions may be changed at any time... Sucker! It's just business sans ethics.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Bill B

[jwattle]

7 hours ago, Bill B said:

It's not 'just business'; or, 'the demise of ethics'. Cruise lines are businesses devoid of ethics. The bottom line is all that counts. They don't give a damn about their pax, their employees or the environment. The ONLY thing cruise lines care about is their shareholders.

 

They register their ship in ports of convenience to avoid humane labour laws... and paying taxes... not to mention, if a crime is committed on board in international waters (by officers, crew or pax), it is unlikely in the extreme it will ever be investigated, much less prosecuted. Sssssssssh....

 

They have, with the knowledge of their corporate executives - going all the way to the top - over a period of years, from multiple ships, illegally dumped oil at sea.... all the while claiming to be 'green'.

 

They encourage past pax to "Sign in for special pricing" on their websites in the duplicitous knowledge most people are naive and will interpret "special" to mean lower pricing... when it actually means higher pricing... Sucker! 'Smoke & mirrors' and obfuscation is accepted as 'marketing'. They push the boundaries of what's legal. When they overstep those boundaries, they don't care - the fine is less than the revenue generated... or the money they've saved.

 

Their reps lie.

 

They construct draconian Cruise Contracts in the knowledge the vast majority of pax don't, or can't read and understand them.

 

They don't care if they sell you an All Inclusive Beverage Package (AIBP), but deliver a (lesser value) Premium Beverage Package. The Terms and Conditions under which you bought the AIBP, stated the Terms and Conditions may be changed at any time... Sucker! It's just business sans ethics.

 

 

And you cruise why?

[lolane1]

On 3/1/2018 at 7:57 PM, nukesubsailor said:

On 3/1/2018 at 7:57 PM, nukesubsailor said:

when exactly did these cards get wet? I believe it was around 10:00 a.m. when the wife washed some laundry that included the small wallet I carry on cruises to hold my coffee cards and other items I may need while on ship.

 

 

OMG that's grounds for divorce!   Lesson learned: do your own laundry or empty those pockets! Hope your wife isn't riddled with guilt.   I've creamed some important paper stuff in the laundry on more than one occasion myself..........slow learner

 

Seriously, I do understand your frustration but but you can definitely act with your new wallet and choose another line.  And I do not mean that in a snarky way.  Btw, not having read the entire thread, would they even be able to give you a new "paper card"?  Do they even have them any more? 

 

[apeller]

I agree that the card should have usable for the op, so long as you can read what it says.  We accidentally washed a card, and it was crumpled, but still worked.I can't believe that ships are now making up their own rules about coffee card expirations.  Princess had this on their website Coffee Card Info

 

In the middle of the linked page it says:

• Coffee cards are valid until the expiration date printed on the card. If NO expiration date is printed on the card it is valid until August 31, 2019.

On the other hand, since the cards say they don't expire, it's not right that Princess is now imposing an arbitrary expiration date.

[donswife]

We were able to use the remaining punches on a card that I originally bought on the Crown in Aug 2016. I used 3 on the Star and 5 on the Caribbean, no problem, except that the CB no longer seems to have the hole punchers, so they crossed them out.

[Iamcruzin]

On 3/1/2018 at 11:20 AM, -Lew- said:

IMHO coffee cards purchased onboard are subject to Federal Trade Commission laws on gift cards as outlined here. See the paragraph below from the FTC website:

 

 

 

Money on a gift card cannot expire for at least five years from the date the card was purchased, or from the last date any additional money was loaded onto the card. If the expiration date listed on the card is earlier than these dates, the money can be transferred to a replacement card at no cost.

 

In this case the coffee cards were received as an exchange for the mini bar which was a perk (gift) from Princess so the law would not apply.

[Iamcruzin]

On 3/2/2018 at 12:34 AM, caribill said:

 

That is like saying if I send you a gift and it breaks you cannot get it replaced since being a gift to you that you are not out $$$.

Apples and Oranges. If I gift you an electronic and it fails to work the retailer will make good on the product as long as you can provide proof of purchase (gift receipt). If you toss the electronic into the washing machine the retailer is not obligated to return or exchange that electronic since you were the one who damaged it.

[Seadog & Sea Hag]

On 3/2/2018 at 12:18 AM, nukesubsailor said:

We just returned from a 20-day Caribbean cruise on the Royal Princess. During this cruise we got to pay more for a bottle of wine plus pay for canned soda. This was because we were not allowed to enjoy the terms of the all inclusive beverage package in effect when we booked the cruise. Instead we had no choice but to adhere to the terms of the replacement premium beverage package.

To add insult to injury, I learned that the 4 coffee cards I had were not to be honored for any of the 60 punches intact on them. These cards were purchased on previous cruises by exchanging mini-bar setups that I was paying for by booking a suite and paying tens of thousands of dollars over the years to become an elite member of the Captain's Circle loyalty club. These cards had no ship name, date, cruise number or anything that identified when they were purchased.

I guess I could have lied and claim that I got them on this cruise but that would not be ethical. Apparently Princess considers it ethical to deny a customer any benefit promised when they sold the customer $150 worth of coffee cards.

I now think I will no longer book and have to pre-pay for Princess excursions. What is to keep Princess from selling me an expensive excursion to see the Leaning Tower of Pisa and instead take me to see a leaning Porta-Potty on the pier. Apparently Princess sees no ethical problem with intentionally failing to deliver what they promise when they take your money.

Needless to say, I enjoyed staying up late last night and had a lot to say when I filled out the post-cruise on-line survey.

Maybe you would prefer a different cruise line? IMO 

[Hlitner]

10 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

Apples and Oranges. If I gift you an electronic and it fails to work the retailer will make good on the product as long as you can provide proof of purchase (gift receipt). If you toss the electronic into the washing machine the retailer is not obligated to return or exchange that electronic since you were the one who damaged it.

Anyone who spends their cruise time doing laundry deserves what they get :).   

 

Hank

P.S.  Only teasing although there is no way DW or I would do our own laundry on a ship.

[nukesubsailor]

1 hour ago, Seadog & Sea Hag said:

Maybe you would prefer a different cruise line? IMO 

Your opinion is incorrect.  I just want to get what I was told I would get for the money I spent with my favorite cruise line.

[EastBay Cruisers]

On 10/25/2018 at 5:37 AM, Bill B said:

It's not 'just business'; or, 'the demise of ethics'. Cruise lines are businesses devoid of ethics. The bottom line is all that counts. They don't give a damn about their pax, their employees or the environment. The ONLY thing cruise lines care about is their shareholders.

 

They register their ship in ports of convenience to avoid humane labour laws... and paying taxes... not to mention, if a crime is committed on board in international waters (by officers, crew or pax), it is unlikely in the extreme it will ever be investigated, much less prosecuted. Sssssssssh....

 

They have, with the knowledge of their corporate executives - going all the way to the top - over a period of years, from multiple ships, illegally dumped oil at sea.... all the while claiming to be 'green'.

 

They encourage past pax to "Sign in for special pricing" on their websites in the duplicitous knowledge most people are naive and will interpret "special" to mean lower pricing... when it actually means higher pricing... Sucker! 'Smoke & mirrors' and obfuscation is accepted as 'marketing'. They push the boundaries of what's legal. When they overstep those boundaries, they don't care - the fine is less than the revenue generated... or the money they've saved.

 

Their reps lie.

 

They construct draconian Cruise Contracts in the knowledge the vast majority of pax don't, or can't read and understand them.

 

They don't care if they sell you an All Inclusive Beverage Package (AIBP), but deliver a (lesser value) Premium Beverage Package. The Terms and Conditions under which you bought the AIBP, stated the Terms and Conditions may be changed at any time... Sucker! It's just business sans ethics.

 

Why would you pay money to a cruise line or write app. 2,500 posts about cruising if it is so morally reprehensible to you ??  If you believe that a business has no ethics nor morality, then why would you

choose to financially support it?   

Makes no sense at all. --- EBC

Quote

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by EastBay Cruisers

[pris993]

We have been cruising for over 30 years... 9 different lines... elite on Princess and Celebrity... as an experienced  cruiser... we do not buy coffee cards, wine packages, tours, we buy a mini suite cabin, eat at the Crown grill several nights, the buffet otherwise and room service, bring our own wine on board, do not look for any special deals on board.  These specials are all rip offs... you have a great cruise and not buy into or pay all the bs.  

 

 

[Thrak]

The "final answer" is that the cruise line has had you agree to a contract that gives them the power to pretty much do as they like in regard to changing the criteria. It may not be "right" (personally I don't agree with it) but it is what you agreed to in the contract. I had two cruises booked under the Sip and Sail in 2016. By the time I actually sailed on those cruises (in 2017 and 2018) Princess had changed the AIBP to the PBP. Was I "pleased" or "happy"? No. However I did get drinks "up to $12" rather than drinks "up to $10" as a small trade off. Would it do me any good to be all p|$$3d off about it? Absolutely not. I went with it and had a couple of fantastic cruises. Dang! I was limited to "only" 15 alcoholic drinks per day! OMG. How freaking awful!!

 

Okay, I realize the change to the coffee cards is actually a more unfair change but, again, it's in the contract. I am not at all happy that coffee cards will now all expire on August 21, 2019. For those who are Elite and don't drink alcohol and who have previously changed out their mini bar for coffee cards it's truly unfair. (Of course Princess never planned for the eBay sale of coffee cards to be a "refund" method for folks.) Despite what Princess thinks of the sale of coffee cards it is my opinion that every coffee card currently in existence should be honored - at least for the punches - until they all vanish through the process of attrition. I (and all others) are entitled to our opinions on this matter. However, Princess holds the winning hand and I, for one, understand that "railing against the machine" will only hurt me and won't hurt Princess at all. I'm too damn old to upset my stomach and well being over things I can't change. I quit getting all upset over policies I can't change (as well as politics I can't change!). It only hurts me and doesn't hurt those with whom I am displeased.

 

It may not be "right' but my advice is to just "let it go" and enjoy your cruise. You will live a happier (and possibly longer) life. I'm not "against your view" but don't think being angry and upset about this issue will do you any good.

[crystalspin]

I read this entire thread when I saw that @Thrak had made the last post. Worth the fifteen minutes of my life that I will not get back, for the level common sense answer that finished it. Thank you Thrak, I hope to cruise with you sometime!

[Thrak]

2 hours ago, crystalspin said:

I read this entire thread when I saw that @Thrak had made the last post. Worth the fifteen minutes of my life that I will not get back, for the level common sense answer that finished it. Thank you Thrak, I hope to cruise with you sometime!

 

Well this is embarrassing! I really am just an old dorky guy. I do approve of properly constructed sentences and such but I'm nobody special. (If you ever do meet me onboard you will probably quickly reach this conclusion on your own. ) I thank you for the kind words but, as I said above, I'm really nobody special. (Really, just ask my kids... 😛)

Edited October 29, 2018 by Thrak

[nukesubsailor]

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 1:17 AM, Thrak said:

The "final answer" is that the cruise line has had you agree to a contract that gives them the power to pretty much do as they like in regard to changing the criteria. It may not be "right" (personally I don't agree with it) but it is what you agreed to in the contract. I had two cruises booked under the Sip and Sail in 2016. By the time I actually sailed on those cruises (in 2017 and 2018) Princess had changed the AIBP to the PBP. Was I "pleased" or "happy"? No. However I did get drinks "up to $12" rather than drinks "up to $10" as a small trade off. Would it do me any good to be all p|$$3d off about it? Absolutely not. I went with it and had a couple of fantastic cruises. Dang! I was limited to "only" 15 alcoholic drinks per day! OMG. How freaking awful!!

 

Okay, I realize the change to the coffee cards is actually a more unfair change but, again, it's in the contract. I am not at all happy that coffee cards will now all expire on August 21, 2019. For those who are Elite and don't drink alcohol and who have previously changed out their mini bar for coffee cards it's truly unfair. (Of course Princess never planned for the eBay sale of coffee cards to be a "refund" method for folks.) Despite what Princess thinks of the sale of coffee cards it is my opinion that every coffee card currently in existence should be honored - at least for the punches - until they all vanish through the process of attrition. I (and all others) are entitled to our opinions on this matter. However, Princess holds the winning hand and I, for one, understand that "railing against the machine" will only hurt me and won't hurt Princess at all. I'm too damn old to upset my stomach and well being over things I can't change. I quit getting all upset over policies I can't change (as well as politics I can't change!). It only hurts me and doesn't hurt those with whom I am displeased.

 

It may not be "right' but my advice is to just "let it go" and enjoy your cruise. You will live a happier (and possibly longer) life. I'm not "against your view" but don't think being angry and upset about this issue will do you any good.

Wise words, Thrak.  My "rant" in the original post was intended to get a message, not just from me but other Cruise Critic members, to Princess in the hopes that they would give more thought to the public image damage they suffer by not delivering as promised.  The legal catch-22 they put in the contract might save them from law suits but it does nothing to save their image. 

I assume every cruise line uses a similar statement in their passenger contracts.  I have "let it go" as evidenced by the two cruises on Princess we have taken since the one mentioned in my original post and have more cruises booked.