Cruise staff opinions on tipping??

[Oldlady chloe]

One more post and then I'm done with this thread, before it degenerates as all "tipping" threads do.

 

Walker presents no evidence that the cruise lines retain the DSC.

 

No, the DSC money is not distributed directly to the crew, it goes into an account for the ship, and payroll draws on this account to pay the crew. Crew are unhappy with some of the changes to the DSC pool, like including back of house workers in the pool that weren't there before, and withholding specified amounts for crew welfare (parties, excursions).

 

The crew are also complaining because they are getting reduced wages due to so many passengers reducing or removing the DSC, yet the crew think the passengers are still paying it (hence the claims of the company holding back), and the claim that wages are reduced due to complaints is also due to passengers reducing/removing DSC. I have yet to see any documentation, from a crew member or from Walker that cruise lines are withholding DSC from crew.

 

I used to work for NCL, so I know how shipboard compensation and shipboard employment contracts are handled.

 

Thank You! I think we all just want to do the right thing by the workers who serve us. Reading the assorted forums, the one thing missing was the perspective of the employee. That was the purpose of my question.

[sparks1093]

Actually, I think it could be possible (maybe not likely) that the tips are not being disbursed. There is such a power imbalance between ceos and poor third world workers who have families to support.

 

Tipping on cruises is such a controversial topic. It comes up over and over ad nauseum on forums. I think it is because people don’t feel good about the system. Something about it seems fishy.

 

Okay, let me put it to you this way- if you can't trust the cruise lines to honor the system they have in place for compensating their crew how can you trust them with your life? They either play it straight or they don't and if they don't then the crew would know it and would stop working for them. And no doubt there are some grumblers in the group that don't really understand how things work, but that doesn't mean that the entire system needs to be questioned.

[bUU]

Just to put my 2 cents in here. I can't speak for other cruiselines, because I haven't researched them all, but Carnival Corporation is traded on the US Stock Exchange and is subject to all of the requirements of the Securities and Exchange Commission and is subject to US law. This means that they are subject to the Sarbanes-Oxley Act.

CCL owns Carnival, Holland America, Princess, Seabourn, etc. RCL is also traded on the US Stock Exchange and is subject to all of the requirements of the Securities and Exchange Commission and is subject to US law. That covers Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, etc.

 

It might be fun to cast reckless accusations around, it is irresponsible to do so and counter productive to the goal of helping cruisers enjoy their cruise vacations.

 

 

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

[gambit57]

This lawyer write lots of articles on the subject. I have no idea as to his reputation and am not promoting him. It is the comment section comments that have me questioning what the right thing to do is...

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2015/05/articles/worst-cruise-line-in-the-world/loyal-to-royal-expect-to-pay-higher-gratuities-and-the-moneys-not-for-the-crew/

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2018/03/articles/worst-cruise-line-in-the-world/ncl-raises-gratuities-again-the-greedy-gets-greedier/

 

As an attorney, I find him shady as hell. One of the bottom feeding scum that gives us a horrible reputation.

 

That said, he plays in an area where the deck is stacked against him. Corporations use various laws, gaps due to international laws, and just the weak enforcement/rules in general to literally get away with murder (among other things). I have no sympathy towards the cruise lines. I see it as two pigs playing in the mud.

 

However, the cruise lines just operate to the lowest limit required by law. In some cases, that's nothing at all. Actively telling customers one thing, but lying about it and doing another, is very different than not doing something at all because they aren't legally required to. Generally not worth the reputational risk. Not in the tips/gratuities/MSC area anyways. I'm US born, but my family is from areas where a good number of cruise staff come. I talk to the staff too. I know things are rough on the ships. I also know the alternative (working in their home countries, or going to other countries to work). There's a reason you see them work contracts for years, despite all their complaints. There are way too many countries with way too many people where a cruise job is amazing compared to what they can find back home.

 

Absent real evidence I can evaluate myself, I take everything that guy says with a massive grain of salt. While I do acknowledge that he may have a hell of a time getting any evidence due to the stacked deck against him, he plays with the legal system enough to get some stuff.

[Shmoo here]

I was more focused on the comment section where multiple people stated they worked on the cruise ships and never saw the tips

Because of how he runs his business/website, he's only going to get/post the comments of people who fit the "cruise lines are terrible" profile. I'm sure that many of those people may be disgruntled workers, with their own agenda. Or ones who only worked a partial contract. I wouldn't believe anything on that website, even with a grain of salt.

[Schoifmom]

CCL owns Carnival, Holland America, Princess, Seabourn, etc. RCL is also traded on the US Stock Exchange and is subject to all of the requirements of the Securities and Exchange Commission and is subject to US law. That covers Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, etc.

 

It might be fun to cast reckless accusations around, it is irresponsible to do so and counter productive to the goal of helping cruisers enjoy their cruise vacations.

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

 

Are you accusing me of doing so?

[sparks1093]

Are you accusing me of doing so?

 

I took that line to be more directed at the OP's thread.

[bUU]

Are you accusing me of doing so?

The opposite. I'm agreeing with you that the accusations against the cruise line are not believable.

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

[Schoifmom]

The opposite. I'm agreeing with you that the accusations against the cruise line are not believable.

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

 

Gotcha. Thanks.

 

Most people don't understand the enormous amount of scrutiny that financial transactions in publicly traded companies receive. Fortunately for me, SOX provides job security :)

[CruiseGal999]

I was going to go into a one time, long winded explanation about DSC (I don't call it gratuity or tips, since it isn't, regardless of what the cruise line says), but decided on just a few facts. Bruce is correct, bar waiters are not in the DSC pool, they are paid the gratuity placed on each bar tab.

 

Housekeeping, waitstaff, and some back of house functions (galley, laundry, depends on the individual line) are part of the DSC pool.

 

Things have changed since 10 years ago. When the Manila Labor Convention of 2006 came into force in 2013, much about the conditions of cruise ship workers changed. Before this, those in the DSC pool relied on the DSC for 90% of their compensation, with no guarantee of a minimum wage.

 

Since MLC, there is a minimum monthly wage for all seafarers worldwide of $617/month, for a 40 hour work week. All work over 40 hours per week must be paid at 125% of the minimum wage. Now, do crew in the DSC pool actually see an hourly wage and overtime? No. The cruise lines use a complex calculation to figure out how much this minimum wage and the required overtime hours comes out to in total dollars. They then break this down into a base monthly salary and an "incentive package" based on the DSC from the passengers. This is clearly stated in their employment contract, along with the clear statement that if passengers remove or reduce the automatic DSC, their compensation can be reduced as well. Now, that seems to be pretty similar to what they were getting before MLC, but the big change is that minimum wage. The base salaries tend to be below the monthly minimum, so if all the DSC were removed, the crew would not be making the minimum wage. MLC requires the cruise line, in that case, to step up and make good the balance, up to the minimum monthly. I did some figures before about the wages based on MLC, and entry level DSC crew make about $1100-$1300/month, but reductions in DSC can drive that down to the $617 figure. So, where DSC made up about 90% of their compensation before MLC, it now drops to about 50%.

 

Does this mean the cruise line is keeping the DSC, or any part of it? No. The portion of the wage actually paid from the DSC collected from the passengers is still 90% of their compensation, but if the passengers remove enough of it, the cruise line has to make up the difference.

 

And remember, even if you remove the auto DSC, and pay an exorbitant amount in cash, the mere fact that you removed the DSC is noted in the weekly purser's report, and this raises a red flag with Housekeeping and Food & Beverage to question the staff involved with your cabin and table service as to why the DSC was removed. This is the whole reason the cruise lines use the DSC, to promote "self policing" team mentality (one crew messes up, we all suffer from reduced wage), and to shift the blame for reduced wage from the cruise line to the passenger.

 

Sorry, got longer than I wanted.

 

You 'were' going to? LOL ... :')

[Aquahound]

Leave the auto grats in place (whether or not you pre-pay), and tip cash for those who go above a beyond.

 

Boom. Done.

 

The fascination with other people's wages these days...and people thinking they know what's best for others...is so bizarre to me.

[Oldlady chloe]

Geez! My first posted forum question as a first time cruiser and all the hate. My TA asked me how I wanted to handle gratuities. I thought they were included, I was wrong, so told her I would let her know. Researching online I went down a rabbit hole, so thought I would ask a simple question whether anyone had asked the staff THEIR preference. Lots of people auto tip, lots of people don’t tip, and lots of people are in between. I didn’t think asking the question was out of line? I guess put me up there with the lanyard question guy!

[grapau27]

I was going to go into a one time, long winded explanation about DSC (I don't call it gratuity or tips, since it isn't, regardless of what the cruise line says), but decided on just a few facts. Bruce is correct, bar waiters are not in the DSC pool, they are paid the gratuity placed on each bar tab.

 

Housekeeping, waitstaff, and some back of house functions (galley, laundry, depends on the individual line) are part of the DSC pool.

 

Things have changed since 10 years ago. When the Manila Labor Convention of 2006 came into force in 2013, much about the conditions of cruise ship workers changed. Before this, those in the DSC pool relied on the DSC for 90% of their compensation, with no guarantee of a minimum wage.

 

Since MLC, there is a minimum monthly wage for all seafarers worldwide of $617/month, for a 40 hour work week. All work over 40 hours per week must be paid at 125% of the minimum wage. Now, do crew in the DSC pool actually see an hourly wage and overtime? No. The cruise lines use a complex calculation to figure out how much this minimum wage and the required overtime hours comes out to in total dollars. They then break this down into a base monthly salary and an "incentive package" based on the DSC from the passengers. This is clearly stated in their employment contract, along with the clear statement that if passengers remove or reduce the automatic DSC, their compensation can be reduced as well. Now, that seems to be pretty similar to what they were getting before MLC, but the big change is that minimum wage. The base salaries tend to be below the monthly minimum, so if all the DSC were removed, the crew would not be making the minimum wage. MLC requires the cruise line, in that case, to step up and make good the balance, up to the minimum monthly. I did some figures before about the wages based on MLC, and entry level DSC crew make about $1100-$1300/month, but reductions in DSC can drive that down to the $617 figure. So, where DSC made up about 90% of their compensation before MLC, it now drops to about 50%.

 

Does this mean the cruise line is keeping the DSC, or any part of it? No. The portion of the wage actually paid from the DSC collected from the passengers is still 90% of their compensation, but if the passengers remove enough of it, the cruise line has to make up the difference.

 

And remember, even if you remove the auto DSC, and pay an exorbitant amount in cash, the mere fact that you removed the DSC is noted in the weekly purser's report, and this raises a red flag with Housekeeping and Food & Beverage to question the staff involved with your cabin and table service as to why the DSC was removed. This is the whole reason the cruise lines use the DSC, to promote "self policing" team mentality (one crew messes up, we all suffer from reduced wage), and to shift the blame for reduced wage from the cruise line to the passenger.

 

Sorry, got longer than I wanted.

Your inside knowledge is always priceless.

[Shmoo here]

Geez! My first posted forum question as a first time cruiser and all the hate. My TA asked me how I wanted to handle gratuities. I thought they were included, I was wrong, so told her I would let her know. Researching online I went down a rabbit hole, so thought I would ask a simple question whether anyone had asked the staff THEIR preference. Lots of people auto tip, lots of people don’t tip, and lots of people are in between. I didn’t think asking the question was out of line? I guess put me up there with the lanyard question guy!

Don't be scared off. Part of learning is finding out that not all "sources" are accurate.

 

There are some cruises that the gratuities may be included, usually as part of a promotion by the cruiseline. I believe, if you're booking from Australia, that gratuities are also included in the cruise fare.

 

But for the most part they are not included.

[bUU]

Gotcha. Thanks.

 

Most people don't understand the enormous amount of scrutiny that financial transactions in publicly traded companies receive. Fortunately for me, SOX provides job security :)

I thought it would for me as well. (My software supported SOx compliance.) It turns out that most companies would rather not have their variances from requirements so easy to discover. ;)

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

[Schoifmom]

Geez! My first posted forum question as a first time cruiser and all the hate. My TA asked me how I wanted to handle gratuities. I thought they were included, I was wrong, so told her I would let her know. Researching online I went down a rabbit hole, so thought I would ask a simple question whether anyone had asked the staff THEIR preference. Lots of people auto tip, lots of people don’t tip, and lots of people are in between. I didn’t think asking the question was out of line? I guess put me up there with the lanyard question guy!

 

As tipping threads go, this is pretty tame. You will find that the use of the "search" button (top right hand corner of the page, near the top of the listing of threads) will help you avoid some of these hot topics, as well as gather some useful (or confusing, depending on the topic) information. I think that you simply fell into the trap of starting your thread with an assumption that came through loud and clear, and that most of us have heard before.

[Hlitner]

I love all the innuendo in this type of thread. But lets put some of the bull to rest. We do have several friends (both Officers and service staff) on a few cruise lines. The tipping issue has come up a few times with our crew friends and they have mixed opinions. So let us deal in facts! Nobody is forced to work on cruise ships. There is no "slave" labor on the ships. In fact, crew members have to compete to get jobs on ships and they need to get decent ratings (from their supervisors and in some cases..passengers) to keep their jobs. If they don't think they are getting decent pay, they can walk away any time! Most of the crew who deal with passengers are on relatively short contracts (they tend to range from 6-9 months). At the end of their contract the cruise line pays for their transportation home. Nothing forces them to return for another contract. And if they want to leave in the middle of a contract this is also not a problem although they will most likely need to pay their own transportation home.

 

So for all the social do gooders who like to harp on the "slavery" thing...they are simply full of bilge water!

 

As to how tips are distributed, we do think that the cruise lines should be completely transparent and have posted our issue with auto-tips for many years. We have never liked the idea that pooled tips are distributed to many crew members who do not deal directly with passengers. It is akin to restaurants giving some of the tips to the laundry service, plumbers, etc.

 

There has been an effort in the EU to apply EU Labor rules to everyone who works on ships. One suspects that if all the EU labor laws were applied to cruise ships there would soon be very few mass market ships in the EU :).

 

So perhaps folks need to accept that the crew on cruise ships have made their own decision to take those jobs. There is no need to feel sorry for them, have pity parties, shed tears, etc. If they are unhappy with their situation they can simply leave.

 

Hank

[GA Dave]

Okay, I do not want to start any arguments about the level of wages or anything, just an honest question: When people are working on a ship on a contract, are all of their meals included with the job? And do they have to pay anything for their quarters on the ship, or are they included as well? I would think that having those two big ticket items included would definitely make the salaries more palatable to younger people. I know rents and food make up a pretty good percentage of people's costs around here.

Just curious.

[chengkp75]

Okay, I do not want to start any arguments about the level of wages or anything, just an honest question: When people are working on a ship on a contract, are all of their meals included with the job? And do they have to pay anything for their quarters on the ship, or are they included as well? I would think that having those two big ticket items included would definitely make the salaries more palatable to younger people. I know rents and food make up a pretty good percentage of people's costs around here.

Just curious.

 

Yes, room and board are included. However, unless the crew member is living with his parents or similar, he/she have to pay rent/mortgage on a home back in their country, and likely supporting (food) for a family back home. Unless you are prepared to box up everything you own and put it into storage every time you sign on a ship, the "free room and board" argument is moot. Even if there is no family, and the apartment or home is empty while the crew is on the ship, there will still be expenses. I've sailed for 43 years, had a family, and always had to make mortgage and car payments when on the ship, and my paycheck paid for the family's food while I was away.

[GA Dave]

Yes, room and board are included. However, unless the crew member is living with his parents or similar, he/she have to pay rent/mortgage on a home back in their country, and likely supporting (food) for a family back home. Unless you are prepared to box up everything you own and put it into storage every time you sign on a ship, the "free room and board" argument is moot. Even if there is no family, and the apartment or home is empty while the crew is on the ship, there will still be expenses. I've sailed for 43 years, had a family, and always had to make mortgage and car payments when on the ship, and my paycheck paid for the family's food while I was away.

 

Yes, that is basically what I was asking. Thanks for responding. I know in my business we have a good percentage of the employees on a contract basis. They all have their permanent home somewhere (usually with a family as well), plus they need to pay for housing, meals, car, etc. here. Gets very expensive in a hurry.

[notalandlover]

I suppose we could do the math. Anyone know the crew numbers and how many participate in the tip pool?

 

I read somewhere on cc that on Anthem of the Seas, an average of 400 people opt out of tipping through RC

 

 

 

The lines can only keep raising the grats to a certain level then they will be forced to include it in the fare like they do elsewhere.

[bUU]

The lines can only keep raising the grats to a certain level then they will be forced to include it in the fare like they do elsewhere.

I suspect that point is much higher than most passengers expect.

 

 

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

[sanger727]

OP, don’t be scared off. I don’t think anyone has been critical of you. Generally this topic just turn into name calling, which hasn’t happened yet.

 

I’ve never worked on a cruise ship so can’t speak to what the staff wants. I used to be a server though. We did a mandatory gratuity on large parties. If I could have done that on every table I would have. Yes, on some tables I would have made less but it would have been heavily outweighed by making more on tables that didn’t tip or tipped very low. I also would have taken a higher hourly wage with no tips, which sounds like how the service charge may be distributed on some lines. But relying on voluntary tipping for a majority of your income is a frustrating way to be paid.

 

I do think that most people who remove the gratuities to ‘tip in cash’ don’t tip or tip less than the auto gratuity. Not saying the OP would do that, but I would guess that the crew would prefer the auto gratuities so we always leave them in place.

 

 

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[grapau27]

OP, don’t be scared off. I don’t think anyone has been critical of you. Generally this topic just turn into name calling, which hasn’t happened yet.

 

I’ve never worked on a cruise ship so can’t speak to what the staff wants. I used to be a server though. We did a mandatory gratuity on large parties. If I could have done that on every table I would have. Yes, on some tables I would have made less but it would have been heavily outweighed by making more on tables that didn’t tip or tipped very low. I also would have taken a higher hourly wage with no tips, which sounds like how the service charge may be distributed on some lines. But relying on voluntary tipping for a majority of your income is a frustrating way to be paid.

 

I do think that most people who remove the gratuities to ‘tip in cash’ don’t tip or tip less than the auto gratuity. Not saying the OP would do that, but I would guess that the crew would prefer the auto gratuities so we always leave them in place.

 

 

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That is something that is very possible.

I always prepay tips and give extra cash tips.

[Heidi13]

Having read the entire thread, I can provide some additional information, having spent 40 years at sea, mostly Ro/Pax, but with the initial 7 yrs working on UK flag passenger ships. My experience is limited to a couple of cruise lines, who I worked for, our son worked for and we cruised with until 2015 - P&O & Princess.

 

I will start by responding to some of the individual posts

- #6 Stated some crew never see tips. We have met many, many crew that keep returning to the same company. If those in the tip pool were being stiffed by the company, I can't see them returning to the same company. The composition of the tip pool is a closely guarded secret, even our son, as a senior Deck Officer, was not privy to that info. Many are not included, which I know includes - Deck dept, engineering dept, security, spa, shoppies, cruise staff. Singers/Dancers? I certainly don't believe cruise lines are witholding funds, but do question the % given to the Maitre'D, as opposed to the crew that provide the service.

 

- #7 Complained about low wages. Salaries/wages are supply & demand. When I started as 3rd Officer in 1978, my salary was the minimum required by UK shipping, as most officers wanted cruise ships. Cargo ships paid 10% more and tankers 30% more, however I still made more money than most 21 yr olds at the time and my benefits were extensive. Standards have reduced significantly, as our son received a N/American contract, receiving cash on board every month. No benefits or vacation were provided. He later received a UK contact with the same company receiving a significant increase and benefits. Therefore, if we have a complaint over wages, I suggest rather than being concerned about low wages, I suggest the concern should be inequality for the same job.

 

The service crews, while they receive comparatively low remuneration compared to N/American & EU standards, they are frequently very well off in their own countries. Hence the reason they keep returning.

 

- #11 - An excellent summation of MLC 2006 and impact on cruise ship staff, by a fellow mariner. MLC 2006 was ratified in 2013 when the required 30 countries ratified the convention & incorporated the standards into their Flag State regulations. At present I believe over 80 countries accounting for >90% of tonnage have ratified the agreement. Unfortunately, countries that have not ratified the convention may not have implemented the standards. Fortunately countries that have ratified, can impose the standards on ships that visit their ports. I do not believe the U.S. has ratified MLC 2006.

 

- #39 - Australia cruise fares include DSC - this has been our experience with cruises based from Australia

 

- #42 - Not sure I would agree that a 6 to 9 month contract is relatively short. Yes, many years ago we had 30 month foreign service contracts, but having completed one 9-month trip as a cadet, it was a long time away from home working/studying at least 12 yrs per day, every day (remember seafarers don't get weekends)

 

- #43 - Do seafarers get free room & board. In most cases the answer is yes - the spa employees on Princess being the only exception that I am aware of. However, most crew must maintain a residence ashore and also have additional costs keeping in touch with family & friends.

 

Personally, I have great difficulty with the cruise line's DSC, as I believe tipping is personal and is provided after the fact, recognising service above and beyond. However, that is no longer the custom on cruises, so if I wish to embark on a cruise, I put my personal thoughts aside and accept the DSC, unless the cruise has gratuities included.

 

The percentage for front line staff (DR waiters - fixed seating & Cabin Stewards) are based on the number of pax they look after. On our last Princess Cruise, our cabin steward had 4 more cabins than the steward in the next section. Consequently he received more from the DSC pool. As a pax, if you deleted or reduced the DSC your cabin steward's percentage dropped. On our last cruise they also mentioned that the DSC pool is now spread across the company's entire fleet and not by individual ship.

 

Provided you do not adjust the DSC, my understanding is that any additional cash provided to a crew member can be retained by that crew member. However, I have never seen it in writing and as previously mentioned the DSC is a closely guarded secret.

 

In response to the OP question, would I pre-pay. Personally - No, but again this is personal preference, as the crew get no benefit to pre-paying. However, the cruise line has your money for a longer period before disbursing to the crew.