LadyBeBop Posted July 5, 2018 #1 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I’m thinking no, but I want to ask y’aall first. I’m sailing the last RCCI Ovation of the Seas Alaska cruise in 2019. Seattle to Vancouver with stops in Skagway, Juneau and Victoria. After Vancouver, the ship continues on to Honolulu, then eventually Sydney for the winter. On the Roll Call, some suggested a possible B2B. The Alaskan cruise, followed by the Hawaiian cruise, disembarking in Honolulu. Unfortunately, that’s not a legal itinerary. You’re embarking in one American port, and disembarking in another. Then, I thought: What if you left the ship in Victoria and made your way to Vancouver to embark again? Making this two cruises: American port to Canadian port and Canadian port to American port. Would RCCI even allow that? Since you already booked passage to Vancouver, could you leave your baggage in your cabin, assuming you booked the same cabin to Honolulu? You’d just take off an overnight case in Victoria. Again, I’m thinking no. But am I correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic6318 Posted July 5, 2018 #2 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Hi I am not sure what you feel is not allowed. The ship goes from the U.S. to Canada. That is allowed. So, they continue back to the U.S.. As a segment that would be allowed. If you did the back to back, you would be travelling from a U.S. port to a U.S. port, with a stop in Canada...that would be allowed. The continuation to Australia is fine as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floridiana Posted July 5, 2018 #3 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I am probably misunderstanding this completely. You would go from Seattle, USA to Vancouver, Canada via Alaska and then from Vancouver, Canada to Honolulu, USA. What would be illegal? I have been on a b2b cruise Miami- Western Caribbean - Miami, Miami - Eastern Caribbean- Miami and a cruise from NYCity to Miami via Manaus, Brazil. None of it was illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdmartyn65 Posted July 5, 2018 #4 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I am probably misunderstanding this completely. You would go from Seattle, USA to Vancouver, Canada via Alaska and then from Vancouver, Canada to Honolulu, USA. What would be illegal? I have been on a b2b cruise Miami- Western Caribbean - Miami, Miami - Eastern Caribbean- Miami and a cruise from NYCity to Miami via Manaus, Brazil. None of it was illegal. On your New York to Miami, you visited Brazil. It is considered a “Distant” foreign port so it is legal. Vancouver is not considered distant, so it would be illegal. Round trip cruises are a totally different circumstance. Hope that helps. Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare LHT28 Posted July 5, 2018 #5 Share Posted July 5, 2018 There is a clause I believe that it can be a foreign port does not to be a Distant foreign port That is why some round trips to Hawaii stop in Ensenada You could read the whole PVSA just google it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare LHT28 Posted July 5, 2018 #6 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Then, I thought: What if you left the ship in Victoria and made your way to Vancouver to embark again? Making this two cruises: American port to Canadian port and Canadian port to American port. What would be the point both ports are Canadian anyway :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdmartyn65 Posted July 5, 2018 #7 Share Posted July 5, 2018 There is a clause I believe that it can be a foreign port does not to be a Distant foreign port That is why some round trips to Hawaii stop in Ensenada You could read the whole PVSA just google it It’s a round trip, any foreign port is ok. Between two US cities, it must be a distant foreign port. That is why Panama Canal trips between LA and Miami always stop in Colombia or the ABC islands. They are considered distant. No other Caribbean port is. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare LHT28 Posted July 5, 2018 #8 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) It’s a round trip, any foreign port is ok. Between two US cities, it must be a distant foreign port. That is why Panama Canal trips between LA and Miami always stop in Colombia or the ABC islands. They are considered distant. No other Caribbean port is. OK got it That is why Canada works on cruises r/t out of Seattle Edited July 5, 2018 by LHT28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voyager70 Posted July 5, 2018 #9 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Hi I am not sure what you feel is not allowed. The ship goes from the U.S. to Canada. That is allowed. So, they continue back to the U.S.. As a segment that would be allowed. If you did the back to back, you would be travelling from a U.S. port to a U.S. port, with a stop in Canada...that would be allowed. The continuation to Australia is fine as well. Doing the first two segments only would be illegal, as the PVSA would be violated without a stop in a foreign distant port. No port in Canada is deemed a foreign distant port. You would have to continue on to Sydney for this journey to legal, or just do one of the first two segments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted July 5, 2018 #10 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Here's what I understand: Seattle to Vancouver via Alaska Vancouver to Hawaii Each segment by themselves is legal, as each begins or ends in a foreign country. Combining them is not legal, because CBP looks at the embarkation point, and the final disembarkation point at the start and end of the transportation, so this would be one cruise in CBP's eyes, regardless of how it is advertised or sold. I'm not familiar with the itinerary of the Alaska cruise, so I don't know if you would be doing early disembarkation in Victoria one day, and re-embarking in Vancouver the next day? If not, then it would not be legal. If so, it may be legal, but there are some caveats: One, you must permanently disembark the cruise in Victoria (settle your bill, take your luggage off the ship, and leave (this is a CBP requirement, not RCI's)). Two, you must arrange this with RCI in advance, and they are charging $50-70 for downline disembarking. Third, they may not want to deal with the hassle of explaining to CBP about one or two guests who disembarked early and then re-embarked at another port, so they won't sell the combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crzndeb Posted July 5, 2018 #11 Share Posted July 5, 2018 You can change ships. Although it might be more of a hassle, at least you could do the S2S (side to side). This is also why the last Alaska cruise is not round trip from Seattle. It couldn’t legally go to Honolulu then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi13 Posted July 5, 2018 #12 Share Posted July 5, 2018 As others confirmed the PVSA requirements differ for R/T cruises and cruises with different embarkation and different disembarkation ports. Neither Vancouver or Victoria meet the definition of a distant foreign port. However, it is my understanding that PVSA kicks in when pax on say a legal R/T cruise, disembark early at another US port. In these cases, unless covered by an exemption the cruise line is fined. Therefore, in the OP case it may work to your benefit to disembark in Victoria and rejoin in Vancouver, as you mentioned. It would at least be worth researching the PVSA fine print and/or asking the question to RCCL. Although you would pay for both full cruises, you are "jumping ship", or taking a land based tour, which may circumvent the PVSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBeBop Posted July 5, 2018 Author #13 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Here's what I understand: Seattle to Vancouver via Alaska Vancouver to Hawaii Each segment by themselves is legal, as each begins or ends in a foreign country. Combining them is not legal, because CBP looks at the embarkation point, and the final disembarkation point at the start and end of the transportation, so this would be one cruise in CBP's eyes, regardless of how it is advertised or sold. I'm not familiar with the itinerary of the Alaska cruise, so I don't know if you would be doing early disembarkation in Victoria one day, and re-embarking in Vancouver the next day? If not, then it would not be legal. If so, it may be legal, but there are some caveats: One, you must permanently disembark the cruise in Victoria (settle your bill, take your luggage off the ship, and leave (this is a CBP requirement, not RCI's)). Two, you must arrange this with RCI in advance, and they are charging $50-70 for downline disembarking. Third, they may not want to deal with the hassle of explaining to CBP about one or two guests who disembarked early and then re-embarked at another port, so they won't sell the combination. Thanks. I knew you’d be the one to understand. The last port on our cruise is Victoria. So we’d have to take all of our belongings off in Victoria, take them on the ferry to Vancouver and reembark there. Sounds like a hassle. Plus you’d have to deal with RCCI. Thanks again. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare geoherb Posted July 5, 2018 #14 Share Posted July 5, 2018 One problem is that the ship may not make it to Victoria. Some ships miss this port each year due to high winds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob brown Posted July 6, 2018 #15 Share Posted July 6, 2018 You could consider another alternative, if the scheduling works...Try to match up two different ships that would still allow you to make that connection, with perhaps a day or two in-between...not as convenient as keeping the same cabin all the way, but still worth considering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BourbonNBluesLuvr Posted July 6, 2018 #16 Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) Hi, As a couple others have suggested...you might consider switching ships to do the Hawaii leg. It appears the Celebrity Eclipse leaves Vancouver 2 days later than the Ovation, with a similar Hawaiian itinerary (both have an overnight in Lahaina...which is great for attending an evening luau)...so enjoy 2 nights in Vancouver (great city) and then a cruise on the Eclipse (great ship) ! Plus, if you have loyalty status on Royal, that will reciprocate over to Celebrity ! Enjoy...whatever you decide ! BBL Edited July 6, 2018 by BourbonNBluesLuvr typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare LHT28 Posted July 6, 2018 #17 Share Posted July 6, 2018 So I am confused if the first 2 cruises are illegal to book together why did RCCL book you as a B2B? you would think they know this in not legal under the PVSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBeBop Posted July 6, 2018 Author #18 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Please keep in mind, I’m just cruising the Alaska RT. We don’t have the money or vacation time to continue to Hawaii. This was just bought up in our roll call. Le sigh. Maybe if I win the lottery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zqvol Posted July 6, 2018 #19 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Hi I am not sure what you feel is not allowed. The ship goes from the U.S. to Canada. That is allowed. So, they continue back to the U.S.. As a segment that would be allowed. If you did the back to back, you would be travelling from a U.S. port to a U.S. port, with a stop in Canada...that would be allowed. The continuation to Australia is fine as well. The stop in Canada is irrelevant to the OP's question. The Seattle to AK, to HI with the Canadian stop is illegal under US maritime law. Also OP's option of getting off in Victoria and back on in Vancouver is still illegal, because the cruise itself is still the same cruise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob brown Posted July 7, 2018 #20 Share Posted July 7, 2018 The stop in Canada is irrelevant to the OP's question. The Seattle to AK, to HI with the Canadian stop is illegal under US maritime law. Also OP's option of getting off in Victoria and back on in Vancouver is still illegal, because the cruise itself is still the same cruise. It's the same ship, not the same cruise. And sometimes, the cruise line will do an illegal back to back like this inadvertantly, but later on will discover the violation, and cancel one or both cruises....the question becomes when, and what remedy they offer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLACRUISER99 Posted July 7, 2018 #21 Share Posted July 7, 2018 So I am confused if the first 2 cruises are illegal to book together why did RCCL book you as a B2B? you would think they know this in not legal under the PVSA A few folks are doing the AD 9/28/18 Cape Liberty to Quebec City B2B with the 10/8/18 Quebec City to Port Everglades. The Folks doing this claimed they have called RCI several times and RCI says this is a legal cruise because it overnights in Quebec City. Any input on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unibok Posted July 7, 2018 #22 Share Posted July 7, 2018 What an interesting thread. I had no idea the PVSA existed. Can anyone tell me why this law from 1886 is a good idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted July 7, 2018 #23 Share Posted July 7, 2018 A few folks are doing the AD 9/28/18 Cape Liberty to Quebec City B2B with the 10/8/18 Quebec City to Port Everglades. The Folks doing this claimed they have called RCI several times and RCI says this is a legal cruise because it overnights in Quebec City. Any input on this? If the first cruise ends on one day, and the next cruise starts on the next day, and everyone has to "permanently disembark" (settle bill, take luggage off) and stay in a hotel overnight, it would be legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted July 7, 2018 #24 Share Posted July 7, 2018 What an interesting thread. I had no idea the PVSA existed. Can anyone tell me why this law from 1886 is a good idea? You must understand that this is the Passenger Vessel Services Act, not the Cruise Vessel Services Act. The international legal definition of a "passenger" vessel is "any vessel that carries more than 12 people for hire". Therefore, this act restricts all "coastwise" (from one US port to another US port) and "inland" (rivers and harbors) to US flag vessels. This includes every ferry, commuter boat, water taxi, duck tour, whale watching, dinner cruise, casino, and even some larger charter fishing vessels. The PVSA provides tens of thousands of US jobs and tens of millions of dollars to the US economy. I assume you read about the PVSA from Wikipedia, whose description of the reasons for enacting the PVSA are not quite correct (as with much of Wiki). In the mid 1800's, there were many fires and explosions on the steamboats plying the US rivers and harbors, carrying passengers around the country. In order to protect the people, Congress enacted the Steamboat Acts of 1838 and 1852, which mandated safety standards and equipment on these boats, and formed the Steamboat Inspection Service, which is the forerunner of today's USCG Marine Safety Division (those USCG inspectors you see delaying embarkation due to inspections for the crew). In response, the steamboat owners reflagged their boats to foreign countries and were therefore exempt from the Acts. In response to this, Congress passed the PVSA, which restricted "coastwise" and "inland" passenger service to US flag vessels, which would have to be subject to the Steamboat Acts. The USCG has more stringent regulations that they can enforce on US flag vessels, with regards to safety, training, licensing, and environmental concerns, than they can enforce on foreign flag vessels. The inspections that the USCG does on foreign flag cruise ships is only as "port state control", and can only ensure that the international requirements of SOLAS, STCW, MLC, MARPOL and other international conventions are met, not the USCG's own requirements. Also know that CLIA, the cruise industry group, has stated publicly that none of their member cruise lines have any interest in amending or repealing the PVSA, since they see little to no benefit to their bottom line, and possible additional costs due to restrictions that might be placed on their ships in lieu of the PVSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLACRUISER99 Posted July 7, 2018 #25 Share Posted July 7, 2018 If the first cruise ends on one day, and the next cruise starts on the next day, and everyone has to "permanently disembark" (settle bill, take luggage off) and stay in a hotel overnight, it would be legal.First Cruise Fri 28/09/18 Cape Liberty (NJ) / USA 15:00 [*] Sat 29/09/18 At Sea [*] Sun 30/09/18 Bar Harbor (ME)* / USA 07:00 18:00 [*] Mon 01/10/18 Portland (ME) / USA 07:00 17:00 [*] Tue 02/10/18 Saint John (New Brunswick) / Canada 08:00 17:00 [*] Wed 03/10/18 Halifax / Canada 11:00 20:00 [*] Thu 04/10/18 At Sea [*] Fri 05/10/18 Sydney (Cape Breton Island) / Canada 07:00 17:00 [*] Sat 06/10/18 Charlottetown (Prince Edward Island) / Canada 07:00 16:00 [*] Sun 07/10/18 At Sea [*] Mon 08/10/18 Quebec / Canada 06:00 [*]2nd Cruise Mon 08/10/18 Quebec / Canada [*] Tue 09/10/18 Quebec / Canada 17:00 [*] Wed 10/10/18 At Sea [*] Thu 11/10/18 Charlottetown (Prince Edward Island) / Canada 08:00 18:00 [*] Fri 12/10/18 Sydney (Cape Breton Island) / Canada 07:00 15:30 [*] Sat 13/10/18 Halifax / Canada 07:00 16:00 [*] Sun 14/10/18 Saint John (New Brunswick) / Canada 08:45 19:00 [*] Mon 15/10/18 Bar Harbor (ME)* / USA 07:00 19:00 [*] Tue 16/10/18 Portland (ME) / USA 07:00 18:00 [*] Wed 17/10/18 Boston (MA) / USA 07:00 17:00 [*] Thu 18/10/18 At Sea [*] Fri 19/10/18 At Sea [*] Sat 20/10/18 Port Canaveral (Orlando, FL) / USA 07:00 19:00 [*] Sun 21/10/18 Fort Lauderdale (Port Everglades, FL) / USA 06:0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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