Passport Confusion

[sparks1093]

39 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

It just seems like that is where the world is headed. More people fly than cruise and those who fly to port will already have to have the correct documentation either Real ID or passport which will no doubt decrease the odds of a security issue on a cruise ship. Only time will tell.

The issue isn't a security issue on the ship, it's someone entering the country who shouldn't. It doesn't seem likely that someone will sneak into the country just to sneak out of the country for a vacation in order to sneak back into the country again 7 days later. (And someone who has a REAL ID compliant license would still need to provide proof of citizenship in order to board a closed loop cruise, a state issued birth certificate, naturalization certificate or Consular Report of Birth Abroad.)

Edited January 15, 2019 by sparks1093

[Crusin6]

1 hour ago, Iamcruzin said:

I think at some point perhaps after the airline requirement for real ID is rolled out completely that passports will be required even for a close loop cruise. 

I’ve heard that aswell

[TravisP]

Personally, I would not do a cruise without a passport for everyone in my family on the trip. 

[Crusin6]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

Yes, passports are the best form of ID but not everyone needs one for the type of travel they do. (And FWIW it's the Canadian border and I know many people in my community whose only travel is across that border and they use an alternative form of documentation that is allowed by the regulations.) Since the latest numbers from the State Department indicate that only 44% of US citizens hold passports that the percentage of people who can get away without a passport if not a small one (and industry reports that I have read indicate that on any particular closed loop sailing 50% to 70% of the passengers are using something other than a passport).  

Statistics are great if you can understand what they aren’t tellingyou

 

so 44% have pp....ok that assumes 100% of Americans travel

 

we know that’s not true. All the 44% is saying is that 44% of americans travel or have traveled to a place that required pp.  it’s also saying that 56% of Americans either...can’t wont dont want to can’t afford to are too old are too young etc etc .to ..travel to a place that requires pp.  Lots of Americans dont travel so you cant say 100% of Americans regarding a pp because a  pp is only for travel and not everyone travels 

 

ok so closed loop sailings...50 to 70% not using pp. hmm....let’s back out those that are on “once in a lifetime cruises” and perhaps first time cruisers who dont know any better regarding pp and I’ll bet that the vast majority of savvy repeat cruisers have  a pp

 

 

again statistics on their own are meaningless unless compared to the overall picture and that overall picture means backing out certain things in order understand the statistic fully

 

pp are the best form of Id available and I’ll gladly pay to keep mine updated. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by Crusin6

[sparks1093]

11 minutes ago, Crusin6 said:

Statistics are great if you can understand what they aren’t tellingyou

 

so 44% have pp....ok that assumes 100% of Americans travel

 

we know that’s not true. All the 44% is saying is that 44% of americans travel or have traveled to a place that required pp.  it’s also saying that 56% of Americans either...can’t wont dont want to can’t afford to are too old are too young etc etc .to ..travel to a place that requires pp.  Lots of Americans dont travel so you cant say 100% of Americans regarding a pp because a  pp is only for travel and not everyone travels 

 

ok so closed loop sailings...50 to 70% not using pp. hmm....let’s back out those that are on “once in a lifetime cruises” and perhaps first time cruisers who dont know any better regarding pp and I’ll bet that the vast majority of savvy repeat cruisers have  a pp

 

 

again statistics on their own are meaningless unless compared to the overall picture and that overall picture means backing out certain things in order understand the statistic fully

 

pp are the best form of Id available and I’ll gladly pay to keep mine updated. 

Nothing I wrote suggested that 100% of US citizens travel and if it sounded that way I apologize for the confusion. There may be a number of people on once in a lifetime cruise or first time cruisers but I suspect that there are also a lot of repeat cruisers whose only form of travel is on closed loop cruises once every year or two. That was the category that my family fell into and I don't think we are all that unique. In any event I don't think that, as you say, that there is a small percentage of people that can travel without a passport. The regulations contain 12 exceptions to the passport requirement for US citizens. 

 

Yes, passports are the best form of ID and I will pay to keep mine updated too, if I need to. If it expires and we have no plans to travel for a year then I'll wait until then to renew it. As always with these discussions what you do has no impact on what I do and vice versa since our decisions don't impact each other.

[SRF]

2 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

I think at some point perhaps after the airline requirement for real ID is rolled out completely that passports will be required even for a close loop cruise. 

 

Probably not.

 

They removed the passport requirement, because:

 

1)  You started in the US and coming back.

2)  The ship submits a return manifest with plenty of time for CBP to vet it.

3)  You do provide proof of citizenship (BC)

[BrandFam4]

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 1:22 PM, apratt said:

My husband, myself, & our 2 daughters are cruising in April to Roatan, Belize City, & Cozumel. My husband is the only one of us who has a passport right now. I was going to get passports for everyone, but it is quite expensive & my husband says we will only need a birth certificate for this closed loop cruise. I was worried about what the procedure would be during an emergency so I called Royal Caribbean and asked if there was an emergency if we would be able to fly home without a passport. The gentleman I spoke to said yes, but that doesn't sound right to me. Don't you always need a passport to fly in/out of the country (United States)? I know it's always a good idea to have passports, but I would rather use that money on excursions.

 

We have a similar situation and chose to get the kids passports just for peace of mind. We also bought travel insurance very reasonably. Much cheaper than the one RCL offers you.

We actually went this morning and it only took 20 minutes to apply for both kids. We got there right as the passport office opened. Make sure to have everyone present, you and your hubby's DL, a copy of your ID and hubby's for each childs' app, their birth certificates (make sure you have a copy or an extra at home before you hand it over, she said they get mailed back to you separately), a check or money order for EACH passport applying for, and if you do not do the app online first, make sure you use black ink to fill it out when you get there.

She told me it is currently taking 4-6 weeks to process them. It cost $130 for each child's passport.

Have a great cruise!

Edited January 15, 2019 by BrandFam4
added cost

[LeesSummitCruiser1]

On 12/11/2018 at 7:28 AM, apratt said:

That is what I am worried about! If one of my kids needed medical care I would feel so bad if we were held up because of that. I know they have some kind of med bay on the ship, but I don't know how good it is. I didn't know until I posted this that kids under 16s passports are only good for 5 years...what a rip off! 

They do that for the picture.  Kids change to much to have a picture last 10 years.

[LeesSummitCruiser1]

3 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

I don't know why you would think that. When DHS wrote the regulations they determined that a US citizen on a closed loop cruise presented a low risk to the national security, keeping in mind 1) that the cruise lines do an excellent job of passenger control when passengers are re-boarding the ship in foreign ports and 2) that CBP has the time during the cruise to fully vet each passenger through a multitude of government databases. 

And the cruise lines lobby heavily for this policy ;-).

 

[sparks1093]

5 minutes ago, LeesSummitCruiser1 said:

And the cruise lines lobby heavily for this policy ;-).

 

I've read that before and have serious doubts about it. Border communities "lobbied" for exceptions and the exceptions were severely limited because of the risk and because of the limited amount of time available at a border crossing to process someone (and of course the regulations were written by faceless government employees, so "lobby" must be used in a limited sense since there was no face to face interaction as there would be with a Congressperson). I believe that if the DHS had reached a different conclusion about the national security risk of US citizens on closed loop cruises then the exception wouldn't exist.

[broberts]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

I've read that before and have serious doubts about it. Border communities "lobbied" for exceptions and the exceptions were severely limited because of the risk and because of the limited amount of time available at a border crossing to process someone (and of course the regulations were written by faceless government employees, so "lobby" must be used in a limited sense since there was no face to face interaction as there would be with a Congressperson). I believe that if the DHS had reached a different conclusion about the national security risk of US citizens on closed loop cruises then the exception wouldn't exist.

 

Regulations are prepared at the direction of political appointees. Further, lobbyists do spend time "educating" government employees at every opportunity. And, if I understand correctly, part of the process of preparing regulations consists of formal consultation with stakeholder groups. In other words, the cruise lines were able to and did join other transborder businesses in encouraging more business friendly border regulations. The fact that there is a specific exception for closed loop cruises confirms this.

 

[sparks1093]

2 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Regulations are prepared at the direction of political appointees. Further, lobbyists do spend time "educating" government employees at every opportunity. And, if I understand correctly, part of the process of preparing regulations consists of formal consultation with stakeholder groups. In other words, the cruise lines were able to and did join other transborder businesses in encouraging more business friendly border regulations. The fact that there is a specific exception for closed loop cruises confirms this.

 

Could be, but I'm still convinced that had DHS made a different determination regarding the national security risk posed by US citizens on a closed loop cruise that the exception wouldn't exist. 

[broberts]

1 minute ago, sparks1093 said:

Could be, but I'm still convinced that had DHS made a different determination regarding the national security risk posed by US citizens on a closed loop cruise that the exception wouldn't exist. 

 

I'm sure you are right. I just don't think that DHS arrives at its risk assessment independent of outside influences.

[whitshel]

On 12/11/2018 at 6:59 AM, SRF said:

For Carib island ports, realize that for many of them, the neatest US Embassy or Consulate is on a different island, which is a different country.  And you need a passport to go to the other island, but you can't get a passport until you get to the other island.

 

Do you REALLY want any more stress or hassles when you are in the middle of some emergency that has you off the ship?

 

To me, it is peace of mind, and WELL worth the cost.

Oh, so this is the scenario where you will be trapped in another country forever.  Pleeeease.....

 

Like I said in another post, I've been on 14 cruises from groups from 3 to 30 and never once did anyone need a passport to get home.

 

Like others have said weigh the risk to your comfort level.

[Desert Cruizers]

Had we not had our passports with us during our TA when my husband needed to be taken to the Hospital in St Johns due to a heart attack. I am not sure what would have happened as they asked for them by Customs at the dock when he was transferred to the ambulance. They were returned to us when my husband was flown home under medical transport in a leer jet and i went commercially. For peace of mind a PP is well worth the cost if a medical emergency happens and your outside the US.

[MNfamilycruiser]

On 12/11/2018 at 8:09 AM, sparks1093 said:

If their passport was issued when they were under 16 then they had to apply in person, at least that is what State's website says.

 

You can renew by mail using Form DS-82 if your most recent passport meets all five of these requirements:

1. Is submitted with your application
2. Is undamaged (other than normal "wear and tear")
3. Was issued when you were age 16 or older
4. Was issued within the last 15 years
5. Was issued in your current name (or you can document your name change with an original or certified copy of your marriage certificate, divorce decree, or court order)

Yes, this is correct.  We just did this, this week.   My daughter, who is now 19 needed to renew her passport that she got when she was 14.  We needed to apply in person.  They also would only accept cash or check - so I had to go with her.  We joked about the next time she needs one - when she is 29 - she should have actual checks by then.  (Or if she changes her name due to marriage of course)

[MNfamilycruiser]

On 1/14/2019 at 5:43 PM, Crusin6 said:

Their passports also cost less

 

fyi your husband will need to physically be present to get the kids passports due to their ages you can’t do it alone 

I am pretty certain this is not true.... I seem to remember that my husband signed a form and had it notarized.  My girls had at least 2 passports before they turned 18 - my husband was never there when we got them.... OK I just googled it: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/apply-renew-passport/under-16.html

[Crusin6]

29 minutes ago, MNfamilycruiser said:

I am pretty certain this is not true.... I seem to remember that my husband signed a form and had it notarized.  My girls had at least 2 passports before they turned 18 - my husband was never there when we got them.... OK I just googled it: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/apply-renew-passport/under-16.html

Step 7 in the above link alone will convince anyone that it’s much easier for both parents to go....

 

hence my advice still is to is to bring both parents if a child is under 16

 

 

 

 

[brillohead]

On 1/14/2019 at 3:18 PM, apratt said:

.....where do you get travel insurance and do I need that for a cruise? We have vacation insurance offered through RC, but I don't remember being offered travel insurance. Thanks for the help.

Vacation insurance, travel insurance... you don't know what you do or don't have unless you READ THE POLICY.  

There is insurance that pays out for any number of possible scenarios.  Some policies cover more than one type of issue, some don't.  This can make it really hard to compare different policies from various companies -- one policy might cover A and C, another only B, another only D, another D and E, and yet another A and B and C, etc. 

It's important to evaluate how much risk you're exposed to and how much risk you're willing to pay for on your own.  

Examples of types of coverage:

Trip cancellation or interruption.... your flight gets cancelled so you miss your cruise, you get a flat tire on the way to the airport so you miss your flight and cruise, your cruise gets shortened or cancelled due to mechanical or weather problems, your cruise's itinerary changes, you trip over the cat and break your pelvis three days before the cruise, etc. Not all policies cover all of these scenarios, either -- read the fine print!  Missing your flight and cruise b/c you overslept may not be covered b/c it's "your fault", whereas missing your cruise because the flight was delayed or cancelled may be.  And there are also differences between what they'll do... will they pay for you to get a different (more expensive at walk-u rates) flight to get to your cruise on time?  Or pay for you to rent a vehicle and drive there?  Will they pay to fly you to join your cruise at the first port of call?  Will they cover costs if you are late getting back to the ship in port and miss the ship? Will they reimburse all of your travel costs, or only certain costs, or only a certain percentage of costs?  

Luggage.... luggage missing, luggage delayed, luggage damaged, items inside luggage stolen -- all kinds of things can go wrong with luggage.  Some policies will reimburse for a certain amount of shopping that you have to do while waiting for your luggage to show up, but you have to keep receipts.  Some policies will only cover stolen jewelry or electronics up to a certain dollar amount -- read the fine print!  (and your homeowner's/renter's insurance may cover stolen items -- check to see what you're already covered for before buying more coverage)

Medical insurance.... if you have health insurance, what does it cover if you're out of the country?  There's a recent thread about a disabled couple who got "abandoned" on Nassau because of a bowel obstruction and their Medicare didn't cover costs out of the country.  Some health insurance will reimburse you for costs you incur on board or in port (do you have enough open credit to pay medical costs up-front?), others don't cover you at all.

Medical repatriation.... if you get sick/injured while abroad and need a medical service to return you home, will those costs be covered?  

Then you have the issue of who all is included in your policy.... if you're traveling with your parents and your aunt/uncle and some cousins, if one person is sick/injured/dead and you don't go on the trip, will it be covered?  Some policies limit who is considered a "family member" to direct, single-generation-ties.  So if your child or parent had a qualifying event, they would cover it, but if an aunt / cousin / grandchild / grandparent had a problem, the company would still expect YOU to go on the trip b/c it wasn't an "immediate" family member.  

Unfortunately, pretty much everyone who sells "trip insurance" or "vacation insurance" just glosses over the whole concept and emails you the policy (written in legalese) and expects you to figure it all out on your own.  Many, many people have something happen and they think, "no worries, I have trip insurance!" and then discover that their policy didn't cover that particular scenario. 

It's also important to learn ahead of time what steps you should take if something does happen -- most companies want you to call them and they'll help you plan your replacement flights, etc.  If you just book new flights and then expect insurance to cover the costs, they may refuse if you didn't follow their protocol.  

Sorry if this seems really "doom and gloom" like or if it makes it sound like insurance isn't a good thing -- it's just a REALLY complicated issue that most people don't think through all the way, and the only way they find out there was a problem / shortcoming with the policy they bought is AFTER it's already too late. 

People traveling from overseas or from areas where winter storms might make flight cancellations more likely might want more coverage than someone who lives nearby and drives to the port.  Someone who spent a bazillion dollars on a fancy suite might want just-in-case coverage where someone in a cheap inside room might be comfortable taking the risk.  Healthier individuals or those with adequate health insurance coverage might decide against medical insurance whereas retired or disabled people who rely on Medicare might want that safety net.

In summary: it's all about deciding what YOUR risk factors are and what YOUR personal financial situation is. 

This article might help you look at some different companies and compare policies:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherelliott/2018/08/19/the-best-place-to-buy-travel-insurance-for-your-next-vacation/#16f886d71e6e

[brillohead]

Holy moly cow.... that post was a whole entire BOOK!  Sorry about that!

[Desert Cruizers]

Brillohead fortunately for us my husbands Federal Plan through UHC, covered everything when my husband had his heart attack 3 days out from Halifax, ( September, 2017 ) our next to last Port ( Boston). The 1 night and next day until we were taken off in St Johns, came to $12,036.57 which all went to my WF CC. it maxed the card out and over the limit. They covered his medical transport back to Palm Springs and no out of pocket expense to me or even a Co pay ( $58,000 ) & 4300 miles. Sadly he passed away 9 days after getting him home, so reading what your explanation of insurance I strongly say from personal experience, check thoroughly with even your own insurance first before going with another company to make sure all that will be covered and what your obligation is in the event a specific event occurs. The Insurance covered his Hospital  stay in Newfoundland and at home, including all cardiologist and procedures done in Canada. 

[brillohead]

Your story was one I was thinking of, @Desert Cruizers, when I wrote my post.  Many people don't think about medical repatriation insurance... and it sure isn't a cheap service!

[johnjen]

On 12/10/2018 at 1:22 PM, apratt said:

 I know it's always a good idea to have passports, but I would rather use that money on excursions.

No, it's a good idea to have passports over excursions. Still trying to understand the reasons why people still leave the country without a passport but I think you have nailed one of the ideas down. While you can legally leave the country without a passport on a closed loop, it is not recommended.

[waterbug123]

On 12/23/2018 at 1:12 PM, CentralFloridaFamily said:

 

I already did the check in so I don’t want to try again. I figure that they ask for expiration date for this very reason.

 

Expiration date is asked for any documents you say will use that have expiration dates.  BC's don't have expiration dates so you won't be asked to list one.

 

On 1/14/2019 at 6:43 PM, Crusin6 said:

fyi your husband will need to physically be present to get the kids passports due to their ages you can’t do it alone 

 

Wrong.  You CAN get a child's passport with just one parent present.  I know because I've done it.  The parent who doesn't go has to sign a form and have it notarized, and provide a copy of their ID. 

 

21 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

 I will pay to keep mine updated too, if I need to. If it expires and we have no plans to travel for a year then I'll wait until then to renew it.

 

If you never do any spontaneous travel in response to a sudden great airfare or whatever, that would work, and I guess in the long run you'd save a few bucks of renewal fees over the course of your lifetime.  I'd rather always know my passport is good to go in the event that a too-good-to-pass-up airfare appears.

 

7 hours ago, whitshel said:

Oh, so this is the scenario where you will be trapped in another country forever.  Pleeeease.....

 

Like I said in another post, I've been on 14 cruises from groups from 3 to 30 and never once did anyone need a passport to get home.

 

Like others have said weigh the risk to your comfort level.

 

No one will be trapped in another country forever because they didn't have a passport to fly home.  But if you do have a passport, then the only thing you have to worry about in that emergency situation is getting a plane ticket.   For myself, I'd much prefer to know that's all I'd have to worry about in that situation.  No need to add more stress to an already stressful situation. 

 

3 hours ago, Crusin6 said:

Step 7 in the above link alone will convince anyone that it’s much easier for both parents to go....

 

hence my advice still is to is to bring both parents if a child is under 16

 

It's really not that big of a deal.  The non-attending parent completes a form and has it notarized, which is pretty easy to do.  You take that form along with a copy of that parent's ID and that's all you need.

[sparks1093]

15 minutes ago, waterbug123 said:

 

If you never do any spontaneous travel in response to a sudden great airfare or whatever, that would work, and I guess in the long run you'd save a few bucks of renewal fees over the course of your lifetime.  I'd rather always know my passport is good to go in the event that a too-good-to-pass-up airfare appears.

 

Alas, even now that we are empty nesters spontaneous travel is not in our cards (other than maybe a quick overnight trip to a nearby city for a date night) so not having a passport isn't a concern. I also have a passport issuing agency 18 miles from my house, so if necessary could have a passport very quickly if I actually needed it. Just like anything else regarding this issue everyone has to make the decision that works best for themselves and not worry about what other people do.