How commonly do X bookings get canceled close to final payment?

[mayleeman]

6 hours ago, Beachlover1989 said:

 I don't think it's selfish of us, I just think we are being smart to plan in advance -

Actually, aren't you NOT planning in advance, and therefore holding out 2 cabins for when you (and your friend) are willing to decide? 

[Beachlover1989]

22 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

Actually, aren't you NOT planning in advance, and therefore holding out 2 cabins for when you (and your friend) are willing to decide? 

I really don't want to let this get contentious....and I hate when people end up being vilified by others on Cruise Critic....I was just trying to share information for how I handled booking this specific cruise, as I believe it was relevant to the subject matter of the OP's question.  And yes, I do believe it IS planning in advance for both of our possibilities.  If you do not think so, that is fine - you can handle your bookings in whatever manner you choose.

[Aralim]

@Beachlover1989, I think the more accurate term for what you’re doing is “hedging your bets”. And yes, you are just answering my original question, so no judgement. (though I have to say that particular approach is unique; never knew cruise lines ever allowed that kind of double-booking on the same name!)

 

I’ve emailed my TA to see if I can get on any kind of waiting list for an FV closer to sailing; it certainly sounds like I have a better than average chance of something opening up as final payment approaches about a year from now. No idea of it will be for any kind of great rate vs the current pricing, but will keep my fingers crossed! Maybe they’ll even extend a special NJ resident rate while they’re trying to fill the suddenly available inventory.

[justcrusn]

I plead guilty. We have had two cruises reserved that sailed at the same time, couldn’t possibly be on two at once. When our plans got solidified we cancelled one and took the other. I guess a refundable deposit made that easy.

By the way as for Family Verandas, we rarely see them in advance but after final payment they are available. Book fast they don’t stay on the market long.

The “fishy” site used to alert me when an FV was available, it seems to be near useless anymore, maybe someone else will create something similar?

[jagoffee]

12 hours ago, yorky said:

This point has been made before, refundable deposits have nothing to do with government regulations. Royal have started offering none refundable deposits in the states at a discount.

Obviously you are in a better position to know this.  

It does seem odd that the nonrefundable deposit policy is across all cruise lines and other travel related items.  Perhaps it is driven by a powerful Travel Agent channel that dictates this policy?  Or some other reason if it not related to a government regulation or insurance regulation.

Or  it is just the competitive differences in the market place.  

Or do you just think all cruise lines get together and are purposely being unfair by not have the exact same system world wide?

[bengaltiger1]

7 hours ago, jagoffee said:

Obviously you are in a better position to know this.  

It does seem odd that the nonrefundable deposit policy is across all cruise lines and other travel related items.  Perhaps it is driven by a powerful Travel Agent channel that dictates this policy?  Or some other reason if it not related to a government regulation or insurance regulation.

Or  it is just the competitive differences in the market place.  

Or do you just think all cruise lines get together and are purposely being unfair by not have the exact same system world wide?

 

As far back as forty years ago I can remember paying a NRD for a holiday abroad through a U.K. travel agent. In approx 2016, it was stated that the conditions of implementing a NDR should be fair and that if you could prove that the company had not suffered any losses that they should refund your deposit minus reasonable admin fees. I can’t remember seeing any reports that someone has done this.  From our Governent website:

 

Consumer law may help you

• Don’t just accept the business can keep your deposit and advance payments or ask you to pay a cancellation charge if you cancel the contract.
• The business can only do this if the contract term is fair.
• A cancellation charge is not fair just because it’s in the contract you signed – it needs to be reasonable.
• Sometimes you’re entitled to a full or partial refund – but you can’t always expect all of your money back if you change your mind.

Businesses can keep your deposit or advance payments, or ask you to pay a cancellation charge, only in certain circumstances

• If you cancel the contract, the business is generally only entitled to keep or receive an amount sufficient to cover their actual losses that directly result from your cancellation (eg costs already incurred or loss of profit).
• Businesses must take reasonable steps to reduce their losses (eg by re-selling the goods or services).
• Non-refundable deposits should only be a small percentage of the total price.
• Cancellation charges must be a genuine estimate of the business’ direct loss.

Contact the business

• If you have concerns, firstly ask the business to explain how they calculated the amount they are keeping or charging you for cancelling the contract.
• It might also help to familiarise yourself with our guide for businesses.

Personally, I don’t see how it costs Celebrity £300 to reserve then later accept cancellation of a cruise. 

 

Yes, we could use an American TA, but as mentioned previously we don’t know who is reputable due to the ban on naming TAs on here. Plus, with the turmoil of Brexit and the rollercoaster ride of the exchange rate, it’s taking a big chance that you will end up better off. 

 

I was in the position of having to book holidays no more than twelve months in advance. I could not book earlier, because my employer did not allow it, unless it was for an exceptional event.  My job was such that I could not take short notice holidays of any duration of more than a couple of days.  We have just accepted that we have NRD and that we can’t always get the lowest price.  I took early retirement and fortunately my husband’s employer is more flexible than mine was.  

 

Do I wish that we have more favourable T&Cs.  Of course, but we do have ABTA and ATOL, which means if things go pear shaped and a holiday company goes bust, then we will get home. Regardless of insurance.  

[yorky]

7 hours ago, jagoffee said:

Obviously you are in a better position to know this.  

It does seem odd that the nonrefundable deposit policy is across all cruise lines and other travel related items.  Perhaps it is driven by a powerful Travel Agent channel that dictates this policy?  Or some other reason if it not related to a government regulation or insurance regulation.

Or  it is just the competitive differences in the market place.  

Or do you just think all cruise lines get together and are purposely being unfair by not have the exact same system world wide?

Ok let’s look at this. Celebrity are now offering none refundable deposits at lower rates so it’s pretty obvious the decision to offer refundable deposits in the US has not been down to government legislation in the US. Unless that is new legislation they could have been fair across the board long ago. I’m guessing it’s down to the power of the US cruise market. Have the cruise lines got together ? You would need to ask them.

[scotslizzy]

So looking at a cruise in Sept in the med which at the moment is too expensive .Reflection cruise. 

Have not given up just yet but when are final payments due for Americans for a sept cruise please.

 

I will then keep checking back to see if we can get a reduction  .

 

Cheers

 

Scotslizzy

[ipeeinthepool]

2 hours ago, bengaltiger1 said:

Yes, we could use an American TA, but as mentioned previously we don’t know who is reputable due to the ban on naming TAs on here.

 

Really?  You seem like a smart guy but this excuse is similar to "My dog ate my homework" excuse.  There are plenty of other forums beyond CC to find and evaluate TAs.  This might be a valid reason for your first cruise, but you can even talk to people onboard to get their experiences.    If the deals and terms and conditions are so much better with United States TAs I have to believe there are forums in the UK that others in the UK have used as well as their experiences and recommendations. 

[sanger727]

19 hours ago, Beachlover1989 said:

 

 

I agree it seems odd that they allow someone to do it.  But until they don't, I might as well take advantage of it - in this particular case. 

 

 

I don't think it's selfish of us, I just think we are being smart to plan in advance - it's really what you have to do with some of these itineraries.  

 

And this attitude is the problem. People get too focused on what they can technically get away with as opposed to what is right. Same theory that allows billionaires to pay no taxes. Meanwhile you and the others participating in this strategy are artificially driving the sales and therefore the prices up and causing other perfectly nice and decent people to not be able to take their dream cruise because they are now priced out of the cabin selection is too limited. Justify it anyway in your mind that you like. If you can’t sail in two cabins, you shouldn’t be booking two cabins.

Edited March 17, 2019 by sanger727

[villauk]

2 hours ago, scotslizzy said:

So looking at a cruise in Sept in the med which at the moment is too expensive .Reflection cruise. 

Have not given up just yet but when are final payments due for Americans for a sept cruise please.

 

I will then keep checking back to see if we can get a reduction  .

 

Cheers

 

Scotslizzy

 

 

90 days in the US, 57 over here.

[Aralim]

4 hours ago, yorky said:

Celebrity are now offering none refundable deposits at lower rates so it’s pretty obvious the decision to offer refundable deposits in the US has not been down to government legislation in the US. Unless that is new legislation they could have been fair across the board long ago. I’m guessing it’s down to the power of the US cruise market. Have the cruise lines got together ?

 

The cruise lines haven't gotten together, and in fact it seems Royal / Celebrity is often a trailing indicator of the market. While I'm still very new to cruising, I've been reading the forums long enough to have learned Royal was one of the last mass-market cruise line to go over to non-refundable deposits, and it was in response to two factors:

1. Passengers gaming the refundable deposit system in combination with Next Cruise on-board credit promos to book several suites or other cabins, then cancel all but one or two in a given year and rescheduling the rest over to future sailings so they didn't lose the OBC from Next Cruise; this was the main cause of so many cabins becoming available after final payment and then being offered at fire sale prices
2. Other cruise lines adopting the program and not showing any significant loss of business

Especially in response to the first factor, this is why Royal now mandates a non-refundable deposit with change fee when you book any suite, excluding Junior Suites. They were simply losing too much money on those suites they had to essentially give away with all the last-minute cancellations.

 

Same story with drink packages. One of Royal's biggest draws was that unlike all the other mass-market cruise lines, there was no obligation for all adult passengers in a cabin to get the Deluxe package if one passenger got it. Carnival, Norwegian, and the others all required everyone in a cabin to buy it together. Then there was too much sharing of the drink packages, costing Royal money, and they changed policy to match the other lines. I can only assume that sharing and other "breakage" isn't as much of an issue on X, since they still allow just one passenger in the cabin to get it if that's all who wants it.

 

I'm enough of a realist (or if you prefer, cynic) to believe that if there's way for folks to hedge their bets on where they really want to go and that their schedules will allow, and they have the income to play that game, that they won't overbook their vacations and then casually cancel them once they make up their minds. This thread has more or less confirmed that it's the case on X, maybe not rampantly so but still a real factor, and at least so far X hasn't cracked down on it with mandatory NRD yet the way Royal Caribbean has, even though they're sister lines.

 

Long as I can go into that with eyes wide open, I know that I need to watch the cabin availability less right now while the prices are skyrocketing, and to start watching more closely again around March or early April when final payment gets close. Then I might not just find an FV become available, for all I know I could find a Royal Suite open up with a state resident special that brings the cost within striking distance.

[Shadow9612]

21 hours ago, yorky said:

I have never used a US agent and would have no idea which one to book with if I looked, no one on here can name even one and end up having to name simply a whole state. 

I'm in Canada and I'm hesitant to use a US travel agent, despite the tremendous difference (ie more) in OBC offers provided to customers in the US vs. Canada.  

 

^I have no valid reason for not using a US travel agent ... it's only 'fear of the unknown' from my perspective..so I understand the hesitation (and possible difficulties) for someone overseas...

 

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Shadow9612

[yorky]

11 minutes ago, Aralim said:

 

The cruise lines haven't gotten together, and in fact it seems Royal / Celebrity is often a trailing indicator of the market. While I'm still very new to cruising, I've been reading the forums long enough to have learned Royal was one of the last mass-market cruise line to go over to non-refundable deposits, and it was in response to two factors:

1. Passengers gaming the refundable deposit system in combination with Next Cruise on-board credit promos to book several suites or other cabins, then cancel all but one or two in a given year and rescheduling the rest over to future sailings so they didn't lose the OBC from Next Cruise; this was the main cause of so many cabins becoming available after final payment and then being offered at fire sale prices
2. Other cruise lines adopting the program and not showing any significant loss of business

Especially in response to the first factor, this is why Royal now mandates a non-refundable deposit with change fee when you book any suite, excluding Junior Suites. They were simply losing too much money on those suites they had to essentially give away with all the last-minute cancellations.

 

Same story with drink packages. One of Royal's biggest draws was that unlike all the other mass-market cruise lines, there was no obligation for all adult passengers in a cabin to get the Deluxe package if one passenger got it. Carnival, Norwegian, and the others all required everyone in a cabin to buy it together. Then there was too much sharing of the drink packages, costing Royal money, and they changed policy to match the other lines. I can only assume that sharing and other "breakage" isn't as much of an issue on X, since they still allow just one passenger in the cabin to get it if that's all who wants it.

 

I'm enough of a realist (or if you prefer, cynic) to believe that if there's way for folks to hedge their bets on where they really want to go and that their schedules will allow, and they have the income to play that game, that they won't overbook their vacations and then casually cancel them once they make up their minds. This thread has more or less confirmed that it's the case on X, maybe not rampantly so but still a real factor, and at least so far X hasn't cracked down on it with mandatory NRD yet the way Royal Caribbean has, even though they're sister lines.

 

Long as I can go into that with eyes wide open, I know that I need to watch the cabin availability less right now while the prices are skyrocketing, and to start watching more closely again around March or early April when final payment gets close. Then I might not just find an FV become available, for all I know I could find a Royal Suite open up with a state resident special that brings the cost within striking distance.

I never suggested the cruise lines had got together, that was a question asked by another cruiser, you failed to quote the remaining line by myself stating the poster would need to ask the cruise lines.

[ipeeinthepool]

1 hour ago, villauk said:

 

 

90 days in the US, 57 over here.

 

If people want things to be the same between the US and the UK, perhaps they can ask for the final payment to be moved out to 90 days to match the terms in the US.

[villauk]

12 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

If people want things to be the same between the US and the UK, perhaps they can ask for the final payment to be moved out to 90 days to match the terms in the US.

 

 

That one one is lost on me as I book mainly in the US for the flexibility - far more advantageous than giving me a few extra days until I need to pay 😉.

[Beachlover1989]

3 hours ago, villauk said:

 

 

90 days in the US, 57 over here.

That's very interesting - I didn't know the final payment dates were different.  I'm assuming that affects the Move Up program, when it goes into effect, and when cabins are awarded?

[scotslizzy]

Villa UK

 

I know its and ask but can you send me the name of the  USA travel co you use please. I am just a bit wary of doing this without a recommendation . e mail address liz.bryant4@outlook.com 

 

Thanks

Scotslizzy

 

 

 

[yorky]

17 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

If people want things to be the same between the US and the UK, perhaps they can ask for the final payment to be moved out to 90 days to match the terms in the US.

Everything should be the same so no problem for me.