Objective view on all the criticism/alternatives

[MrMike45]

Posting this on both NCL and MSC forums, which might be against the rules.  If so, mods, please remove one, and sorry....

 

Background - we are platinum plus on NCL. Our next cruise w/ NCL is less than 30 days away.  We are also booked for our first cruise on MSC for October of this year, and will be going on a Carnival cruise in June 2020 for a "destination wedding" family thing.  

 

Have been a member of CC for awhile.  Mostly troll, post here and there.  But I read alot of the posts.  And being booked on MSC and Carnival now, I am also reading alot on their sections of the forum as well, and have posted on the MSC forum a bit recently.  

 

So here's the thing...for all 3 lines, about 1/3rd (maybe even 1/2) of the posts are negative.  Criticism of the service, the prices, the perks, the offers, lack of deals, repetitive deals, etc. etc. etc.  If I was a first time cruiser...I would run for the hills!  Luckily, I have been on 16 cruises so I know alot of what people post can be taken with a grain of salt, and until I experience it for myself, I chalk it up to a random bad experience.  

 

But on an overview.  To those who post negative reviews, comments and criticisms...I am curious as to what you find "worth it" in terms of vacationing?  Is it another cruise line?  Bearing in mind, that the price you pay on NCL or MSC or Carnival is not what you will pay on a luxury cruise line...so do you save up for one of those trips?  Is it a land based vacation, deeming all cruises have dropped in quality?  If so...why are you posting on CRUISE critic?  

 

This is not meant to start a flame war or a bunch of argumentative posts.  I am just curious.  My wife does not fly (major fear).  So for us, it is either drive or cruise.  But maybe we are missing out on the best options when it comes to cruising.

 

Thanks 

[ZsaZsa2019]

It's human nature to complain when things go wrong or you aren't happy, but not as many people return the favor when they are pleased and things go the way they should.  

 

For the most part, it's been a while since we cruised so I imagine the way NCL is doing things is the new way of cruising.  However, our last cruise was Celebrity about three years ago, and I don't recall all this pre-planning.  We didn't reserve any dining before getting on the ship, and never had to reserve any shows or entertainment.  We booked, paid and were set to go.  But again, I'm sure things have changed.  It's not my preferred way to vacation, but we were asked to join some friends on an Alaska cruise and are excited about it.

[Peachypooh]

To me there is a difference between those who post negative stuff without giving

information that might be helpful and those that post stuff that is. For example the

posts about being near a noisy venue and no sleep and to double check your

location or the menu in LaCucina doesn't have lasagna or meatballs anymore I think

is helpful. Those who just rant (and they may be justified but it is hard to know) might

feel better but they are not helping other people which I think is the purpose of this

community.

[erdoran]

My own negativity is about lack of transparency and marketing BS.  Lack of transparency re recipients of bogus gratuities & DSC; marketing BS - “save the environment” justifying no straws or towel animals (aka “increase our profits/reduce our costs”)

 

I guess it’s as much venting as anything.  The bogus grats I hate, but it’s no different at many land-based resorts, so I chalk it up to “resort fees” or other bS charges that get added pretty much everywhere, and consider it part of cruising.

 

The marketing BS - I don’t care that much about either of these things, and NCL is a business, not a charity, and I “get” marketing.

 

What would make me leave is finding another cruise line that offers a Haven-like experience with a decent itinerary for significantly less than NCL, without having a trade off to a “haven inside cabin” (MSC lower priced Yacht Club cabins).  

 

We stay with NCL because my husband is a terrible traveler and he is OK with NCL.  We know what we are getting and it is in his comfort zone.  However, the prices are right at the top of what we are willing to spend, and if they continue to rise they may price us out of the market.

[CruisingNole]

I think people particularly gripe about NCL because they are cutting "too much, too fast." While it is an industry trend to cutback offerings, NCL is a bit overzealous and not at all discreet about it. All while raising service charges and fares at the same time. Example: Raising the DSC and then almost immediately afterwards, they announce no more towel animals (which are made by the staff who supposedly receive said DSC). It's really just adding insult to injury. 

 

I've got one more NCL cruise booked and afterwards I'm taking a break and sticking with a few of the other cruise lines that sail from FL. One thing I always liked about cruising was that I could hop on the boat and (for the most part) know that I've already paid for just about everything. And after I made that payment, I knew what I'll be getting in return. No surprises. Well...that just isn't the case anymore.

[Newleno]

I travel on all the cruiselines, recently ncl has provided the best deal for us, however my big gripe with them is the wording with pricing, in my opinion it is deceptive advertising.  cruise critic is not really a place to engage unless you are prepared for the onslaught of negativity.

[DaCruiseBug]

I will echo what others have said about NCL. The issue most people have with NCL is the deceptive marketing, restrictions, and fees on top of fees they like to make up along with them increasing those fees at a pace much faster then the competition. It's quite sad because NCL actually has a good product but just like I don't shop at Wal-Mart (At any cost) I will try to avoid NCL unless there's some amazing deal.

[MrMike45]

To those who are saying NCL's biggest flaw is deceptive marketing and hidden fees...what other lines have your cruised on that have not had these?  

 

I can only speak to self experience, but I know my booking on MSC has had alot of those same issues.  The booking came with Free Easy drink package, all gratuities or fees included, which at the time I thought was awesome.  Only to find out that it only includes very limited drink choices.  For example, the only beers covered by this plan are either Heineken drafts or Miller Lite bottles.  Even if other beers or ciders are the same price, they are not covered.  Same with mixed drinks or wine.  And for any drink above the $6 limit for this plan, you do not pay the difference.  

 

So for example, glasses of wine $6 and below are covered.  If my wife orders a $7 glass of wine, she doesn't pay $1.  She has to pay the full $7 plus 18% gratuity.  

 

Others booked rooms which included free drink vouchers (any priced drink).  Only to have MSC discontinue that perk effective 3/1/19, and offer no substitute.  So those people paid extra for rooms and lost a perk without getting anything replaced.

 

All this would fall under the realm of "deceptive marketing and hidden fees" in my mind.  But we roll with the punches.  We decided for this cruise, we will drink what's available or pay ala carte if I really want a cider or my wife really wants a mixed drink not covered.  No big deal.  

 

Again, this isn't me being an NCL cheerleader.  I am curious what lines those with complaints are now cruising on, in which those same complaints don't exist.  

[david_sobe]

The OP is mixing apples and oranges.  When NCL changes perks, service fees, restaurant items, or food, its only fair and justified that boards devoted to NCL are to discuss the changes.  The board did not start the discussion on their own.  Yes its true, the customer base does not like price increases, cut backs in service or perks, etc.  Call that negative?  I call it reality. Do you really expect customers to cheer......thank goodness for those prices that went up or the services that were curtailed?

If NCL or another line would move in the other direction then I am the first one to applaud them.  I applauded NCL for having the bravery to reverse course on the Grey Goose upcharge on the UBP.

If anything, I think the boards are mostly positive from cruise passengers who mostly enjoy their experience.  Yes of course there are always Debbie Downers.  I guess I see the glass half full because discussion of changes should be open for discussion.

[Newleno]

4 minutes ago, MrMike45 said:

To those who are saying NCL's biggest flaw is deceptive marketing and hidden fees...what other lines have your cruised on that have not had these?  

 

I can only speak to self experience, but I know my booking on MSC has had alot of those same issues.  The booking came with Free Easy drink package, all gratuities or fees included, which at the time I thought was awesome.  Only to find out that it only includes very limited drink choices.  For example, the only beers covered by this plan are either Heineken drafts or Miller Lite bottles.  Even if other beers or ciders are the same price, they are not covered.  Same with mixed drinks or wine.  And for any drink above the $6 limit for this plan, you do not pay the difference.  

 

So for example, glasses of wine $6 and below are covered.  If my wife orders a $7 glass of wine, she doesn't pay $1.  She has to pay the full $7 plus 18% gratuity.  

 

Others booked rooms which included free drink vouchers (any priced drink).  Only to have MSC discontinue that perk effective 3/1/19, and offer no substitute.  So those people paid extra for rooms and lost a perk without getting anything replaced.

 

All this would fall under the realm of "deceptive marketing and hidden fees" in my mind.  But we roll with the punches.  We decided for this cruise, we will drink what's available or pay ala carte if I really want a cider or my wife really wants a mixed drink not covered.  No big deal.  

 

Again, this isn't me being an NCL cheerleader.  I am curious what lines those with complaints are now cruising on, in which those same complaints don't exist.  

"free at sea" literally mean "fee at sea"  dont know of any other cruiseline that has that promotion.

[DaCruiseBug]

11 minutes ago, MrMike45 said:

To those who are saying NCL's biggest flaw is deceptive marketing and hidden fees...what other lines have your cruised on that have not had these?  

 

I can only speak to self experience, but I know my booking on MSC has had alot of those same issues.  The booking came with Free Easy drink package, all gratuities or fees included, which at the time I thought was awesome.  Only to find out that it only includes very limited drink choices.  For example, the only beers covered by this plan are either Heineken drafts or Miller Lite bottles.  Even if other beers or ciders are the same price, they are not covered.  Same with mixed drinks or wine.  And for any drink above the $6 limit for this plan, you do not pay the difference.  

 

So for example, glasses of wine $6 and below are covered.  If my wife orders a $7 glass of wine, she doesn't pay $1.  She has to pay the full $7 plus 18% gratuity.  

 

Others booked rooms which included free drink vouchers (any priced drink).  Only to have MSC discontinue that perk effective 3/1/19, and offer no substitute.  So those people paid extra for rooms and lost a perk without getting anything replaced.

 

All this would fall under the realm of "deceptive marketing and hidden fees" in my mind.  But we roll with the punches.  We decided for this cruise, we will drink what's available or pay ala carte if I really want a cider or my wife really wants a mixed drink not covered.  No big deal.  

 

Again, this isn't me being an NCL cheerleader.  I am curious what lines those with complaints are now cruising on, in which those same complaints don't exist.  

 

Really? I sailed on MSC and didn't experience that. Actually, if you go to the MSC website and you click on where it says "free drinks" it brings you right to the page that tells you exactly what is included. Not hidden anywhere...just 1 click. Their "free at sea" is very similar to the "standard" package on Celebrity. You can upgrade your package for under $200 per person for the whole week and still come out WAY ahead of anything NCL has.

[MrMike45]

10 minutes ago, david_sobe said:

The OP is mixing apples and oranges.  When NCL changes perks, service fees, restaurant items, or food, its only fair and justified that boards devoted to NCL are to discuss the changes.  The board did not start the discussion on their own.  Yes its true, the customer base does not like price increases, cut backs in service or perks, etc.  Call that negative?  I call it reality. Do you really expect customers to cheer......thank goodness for those prices that went up or the services that were curtailed?

If NCL or another line would move in the other direction then I am the first one to applaud them.  I applauded NCL for having the bravery to reverse course on the Grey Goose upcharge on the UBP.

If anything, I think the boards are mostly positive from cruise passengers who mostly enjoy their experience.  Yes of course there are always Debbie Downers.  I guess I see the glass half full because discussion of changes should be open for discussion.

 

I'm not mixing anything.  I am asking those who post complaints, criticisms, and negative posts about NCL, what have they chosen instead, that does not have those same complaints, criticisms, and negativity.  As I have now been on 3 different boards, and different people on all 3 of those cruise lines all seem to have similar complaints.  And lately, it seems like there are more complaints than not.  

 

So I am curious as to which cruise line (or other vacation) people prefer to NCL that does not have these same issues.  

[MrMike45]

4 minutes ago, DaCruiseBug said:

 

Really? I sailed on MSC and didn't experience that. Actually, if you go to the MSC website and you click on where it says "free drinks" it brings you right to the page that tells you exactly what is included. Not hidden anywhere...just 1 click. Their "free at sea" is very similar to the "standard" package on Celebrity. You can upgrade your package for under $200 per person for the whole week and still come out WAY ahead of anything NCL has.

 

 

Go on the MSC forum.  There are about a dozen or so threads all with questions and complaints about their various drink packages.  The Drinks on Me promo morphed into the Easy Drink package.  Which the limit and what was included changed.  At the same time, if you booked the Fantasica package, it included 12 free drink vouchers.  MSC discontinued that promo effective 3/1/19.  However if you booked a cruise for say 4/16/19 PRIOR to 3/1/19, you don't get those vouchers.  They were just eliminated.  And cancelling and booking under another experience would incur fees.  

 

I'm not complaining about it.  I'm just saying that would fall in line with "deceptive and misleading" the same way alot of what NCL does.  So people complain about what NCL does, people complain about what MSC does.  What is the right choice? 

[DaCruiseBug]

1 minute ago, MrMike45 said:

 

 

Go on the MSC forum.  There are about a dozen or so threads all with questions and complaints about their various drink packages.  The Drinks on Me promo morphed into the Easy Drink package.  Which the limit and what was included changed.  At the same time, if you booked the Fantasica package, it included 12 free drink vouchers.  MSC discontinued that promo effective 3/1/19.  However if you booked a cruise for say 4/16/19 PRIOR to 3/1/19, you don't get those vouchers.  They were just eliminated.  And cancelling and booking under another experience would incur fees.  

 

I'm not complaining about it.  I'm just saying that would fall in line with "deceptive and misleading" the same way alot of what NCL does.  So people complain about what NCL does, people complain about what MSC does.  What is the right choice? 

 

The right choice? I guess that answer is different for everyone. That's something you have to figure out.

 

Every board has negative discussions but in my opinion the number of negative threads on the NCL board are greater then any other cruise line and I believe it's because of what NCL has been doing the past few years with price and fee increases and cuts to things provided to passengers.

[PTC DAWG]

I take the harsh criticisms with a grain of salt.  NOTHING can be as bad as some of the things I've read on this forum and other lines forums...folks just like to think they are being heard.

[PTC DAWG]

11 minutes ago, DaCruiseBug said:

 

Really? I sailed on MSC and didn't experience that. Actually, if you go to the MSC website and you click on where it says "free drinks" it brings you right to the page that tells you exactly what is included. Not hidden anywhere...just 1 click. Their "free at sea" is very similar to the "standard" package on Celebrity. You can upgrade your package for under $200 per person for the whole week and still come out WAY ahead of anything NCL has.

I'm sailing MSC Seaside on 4/27...so very soon...I expect to have a nice time.  But yeah, you paid extra to get the Easy Package when I booked...this was in Jan...I could have saved about $200 on the cabin by going without the Easy and Internet...I thought it was worth the upcharge...I recently upgraded the Bride and I to the premium package for $33 PP PD...

[DaCruiseBug]

1 minute ago, PTC DAWG said:

I'm sailing MSC Seaside on 4/27...so very soon...I expect to have a nice time.  But yeah, you paid extra to get the Easy Package when I booked...this was in Jan...I could have saved about $200 on the cabin by going without the Easy and Internet...I thought it was worth the upcharge...I recently upgraded the Bride and I to the premium package for $33 PP PD...

 

So basically the premium package cost you $200 + $33 per person per day. That's $431 per person (MSC doesn't charge any fee on it) for a premium drink package that includes WAY MORE then NCLs UBP which costs $833 per person. Now, yes...most people get the NCL UBP for $140 per person plus the difference in fares between a sailaway and a fare that includes perks. But you'll also find that the NCL fares that include perks are quite a bit inflated compared to fares that include the "easy package".

 

I hope you enjoy MSC. We sailed in the YC and it was fantastic. They're still trying to figure out the US market but they're making progress.

 

As I said in another post just add up all the costs on one line and all the costs on another and what they include and then make your decision based on that.

[mugtech]

We were lucky enough to take 4 cruises before I ever got on CC, so we had no preconcieved ideas about cruising, just took the cruises and were very satisfied. Many would rather complain or have OCD about having the perfect vacation.  We still think cruising is the best vacation for the money as a way to get A taste of the rest of the world.  Ten of our first 11 cruises were on NCL, and we have been platinum since 5 cruises, enjoy the perks.  We Will be on RCCL on 5/5 taking a 12 day from Florida to the ABC islands and 2 more stops on the way to NJ.  Our most recent cruise was NCL Jewel 12 days Singapore to Hong Kong, while our previous 5 cruises were 3 on RCCL, a 10 day to Bali on Princess Sapphire and a 14 day TA on the new Carnival Horizon.  All these cruise lines are very similar to each other, so price and itinerary are the major factors for us.  All things being equal we will probably cruise NCL for the loyalty benefits, but all things are rarely equal.  As we search for a trans Pacific cruise that does not include Australia in the future, we currently see nothing worthwhile from NCL.

 

[PTC DAWG]

53 minutes ago, DaCruiseBug said:

 

So basically the premium package cost you $200 + $33 per person per day. That's $431 per person (MSC doesn't charge any fee on it) for a premium drink package that includes WAY MORE then NCLs UBP which costs $833 per person. Now, yes...most people get the NCL UBP for $140 per person plus the difference in fares between a sailaway and a fare that includes perks. But you'll also find that the NCL fares that include perks are quite a bit inflated compared to fares that include the "easy package".

 

I hope you enjoy MSC. We sailed in the YC and it was fantastic. They're still trying to figure out the US market but they're making progress.

 

As I said in another post just add up all the costs on one line and all the costs on another and what they include and then make your decision based on that.

I agree, math isn't hard to me.  (actually after doing the math, it ended up $200 plus the $27 PP PD, I misspoke on the upgrade amount)  so less than $600 total for the Bride and I)

 

...My last two cruises have been on NCL...I enjoyed both of them, took full advantage of the drink package....I am looking forward to the MSC cruise because I know it will be different.  

 

Sailing on an 11 day Celebrity this fall, I don't want to get in a rut with any one line.  A free meal, or early embarkation isn't enough to get me to just cruise one line.  

Edited April 16, 2019 by PTC DAWG

[graphicguy]

I notice this more when I'm looking to book a cruise, or reporting on one I just took.  

 

Complaints a peppered throughout the main cruise lines' forums.  I notice just recently, most are the same complaints throughout the different lines.  Nature of the beast I suppose.

 

And, it seems the ones who do most of the complaining are the same people.  I'm just guessing that they're generally negative people and I try to steer clear of them, as I certainly don't want to be around those types on a cruise vacation.

 

I don't believe it's as high as ⅓-½ though.  Maybe, 25%?  

 

Anyway, I don't mind hearing about the changes a cruise line is making.  I welcome those.  If you got stuck in an elevator, or treated poorly by crew, or found a fly in your soup on consecutive days....I get the complaint.  The pontificating on how a cruise line SHOULD BE DOING BUSINESS is tiring, however.  I'm a passenger, not a cruise exec.  I won't drone on and on and on in multiple threads about how badly I dislike this or that policy on this or the other cruise line.  It's just a slog.

 

I find NCL's pricing competitive (and, that's with fares, fees and tips thrown in).  I like their drink and dining perks.  I love their service and entertainment.  That's probably why I've been sailing them more, although I always look (and sail) other lines to find one that is in my wheelhouse for itinerary, price, and perks.

 

That said, I like other cruise lines, too.  I like Royal.  I like MSC.  Celebrity leaves me a bit cold, and I have to be "in the mood" to sail Carnival, but I like them, too.

 

Advice?  Steer clear of the negative folks and you'll be much happier in the long run.

[david_sobe]

2 hours ago, MrMike45 said:

 

I'm not mixing anything.  I am asking those who post complaints, criticisms, and negative posts about NCL, what have they chosen instead, that does not have those same complaints, criticisms, and negativity.  As I have now been on 3 different boards, and different people on all 3 of those cruise lines all seem to have similar complaints.  And lately, it seems like there are more complaints than not.  

 

So I am curious as to which cruise line (or other vacation) people prefer to NCL that does not have these same issues.  

All the complaints here lately on the NCL board are about changes to the UBP which NCL changed and then changed again, raising the service charge/auto gratuities, banning of straws, etc.  To every action, there is a reaction 😉

[newmexicoNita]

20 hours ago, MrMike45 said:

Posting this on both NCL and MSC forums, which might be against the rules.  If so, mods, please remove one, and sorry....

 

Background - we are platinum plus on NCL. Our next cruise w/ NCL is less than 30 days away.  We are also booked for our first cruise on MSC for October of this year, and will be going on a Carnival cruise in June 2020 for a "destination wedding" family thing.  

 

Have been a member of CC for awhile.  Mostly troll, post here and there.  But I read alot of the posts.  And being booked on MSC and Carnival now, I am also reading alot on their sections of the forum as well, and have posted on the MSC forum a bit recently.  

 

So here's the thing...for all 3 lines, about 1/3rd (maybe even 1/2) of the posts are negative.  Criticism of the service, the prices, the perks, the offers, lack of deals, repetitive deals, etc. etc. etc.  If I was a first time cruiser...I would run for the hills!  Luckily, I have been on 16 cruises so I know alot of what people post can be taken with a grain of salt, and until I experience it for myself, I chalk it up to a random bad experience.  

 

But on an overview.  To those who post negative reviews, comments and criticisms...I am curious as to what you find "worth it" in terms of vacationing?  Is it another cruise line?  Bearing in mind, that the price you pay on NCL or MSC or Carnival is not what you will pay on a luxury cruise line...so do you save up for one of those trips?  Is it a land based vacation, deeming all cruises have dropped in quality?  If so...why are you posting on CRUISE critic?  

 

This is not meant to start a flame war or a bunch of argumentative posts.  I am just curious.  My wife does not fly (major fear).  So for us, it is either drive or cruise.  But maybe we are missing out on the best options when it comes to cruising.

 

Thanks 

Very good question: here is how I see the negatives and the posters who decide to post the negatives:

I their ideas and expectations for the most part are outdated or not realistic.

2-they have a favorite line and that is their agenda for knocking another line, regardless as to what line

3-they are just negative people who post he bad without looking for the good. To some degree this probably applies to many of us. We expect to have a good time so we think little of it when we do but if things go wrong, we can't wait to let the world know. 

 

Too often people get the idea if they continue to post negatives, especially when they have another favorite line they will convince people to jump ship (not literally of course) Those are he posters who are basing their opinions on 1 experience. For those of us who post regularly we know who they are. It might be someone who had a bad experience just a few weeks ago, or one that had that experience a few years ago. They suddenly become experts as to what is wrong with the cruise, the ship, the line or whatever. And yes, this is not a good thing. as new viewers do not know the difference between over exaggerating and honest criticism. 

 

I think some of what I have mentioned is seen right now by reading the responses to your questions. When people complain about this change and that change, they overlook most lines are doing something similar but in a different way. The bottom line is still pretty much the same. they are i the business to make money, and when this changes they will have to adjust where adjusting is needed. Between friends and family we know a lot of cruisers. Each one will tell a similar story regardless of the line and usually it comes down to cost and or service.  

[mugtech]

5 minutes ago, newmexicoNita said:

 

Too often people get the idea if they continue to post negatives, especially when they have another favorite line they will convince people to jump ship (not literally of course) Those are he posters who are basing their opinions on 1 experience. For those of us who post regularly we know who they are. It might be someone who had a bad experience just a few weeks ago, or one that had that experience a few years ago. They suddenly become experts as to what is wrong with the cruise, the ship, the line or whatever. And yes, this is not a good thing. as new viewers do not know the difference between over exaggerating and honest criticism. 

I suppose many of the negative posters like to show that they are correct about their favorite cruise line.  It does them no good to convince others to book on their favorite line, for it means the ships will fill up faster and the prices will rise as a result of supply and demand.  I like to use CC for information purposes, like NCL and RCCL best, hope others use all the other cruise lines such as Carnival, Celebrity, Princess etc etc etc.

[mugtech]

13 hours ago, david_sobe said:

All the complaints here lately on the NCL board are about changes to the UBP which NCL changed and then changed again, raising the service charge/auto gratuities, banning of straws, etc.  To every action, there is a reaction 😉

As a nondrinker who doesn't use straws I find most of the complaints mental *****.

[pete_coach]

We have been on 2 NCL cruises and I did have some criticisms of the experience and were justified. I also posted a review of the cruise noting the fun we had.

My "bad" experiences dealt with the some things I felt were small annoyances and downright ad business.

I felt that changing the drink package after I had already paid in full was not good. I accepted the package based on what was offered and to reduce it significantly was bad.

I also felt having to make restaurant reservations and show bookings 90 days in advance is a bit much. Missing that 90 day mark by a few weeks (like me) made getting dining times impractical for us with children, 8:30 was too late for dinner with them and that was ll that was left.  Same with the shows, 10 PM was too late for for them. We tried to get earlier times once onboard and were told they were booked up but we could stand in line in case there were no shows and there were always a few tables for walk ups. The line ups were very long for both the restaurants and the early shows.

These were things we never experienced on other lines. I felt these were things others should know and I noted them in my review.

So, is that negative? Or just the way it was? Was it objective or just  expressing how it was for us? I took some flack for some of the loyalists but that was to be expected I guess.

Edited April 17, 2019 by pete_coach