Carnival Fascination Passenger Jumps Overboard Intentionally

[Tracey.kinney425]

18 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

I'm not sure it was ever stated what level he jumped from, but if it was from one of the added balconies, it would not have been as traumatic as if he had jumped from Lido deck.  EM

Deck right above lido. Not sure what deck that is on his ship on Horizon is deck 11.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Tracey.kinney425

[martinm]

On 5/22/2019 at 2:53 AM, ontheweb said:

I'm not quite understanding--you were no longer worried when you found out he jumped on purpose? I suppose you meant that he deserved whatever bad thing happened to him, but what about others? Don't you think he had parents, possibly grandparents, possibly siblings who could have been devastated if worst came to worst? Don't you think there would have been a pall over the whole ship if say he had died or even been seriously medically affected?

 

Yes, he deserves whatever punishment Carnival might mete out such as fining him for the cost of the rescue and/or banning him from cruises, but no longer worrying about his fate seems over the top. I hope I am misinterpreting what you wrote.

Why should we care about that? Clearly the young man didn't. 

[ontheweb]

22 hours ago, Tracey.kinney425 said:

What I was told in fb group is that this guy was on his honeymoon, caught new bride cheating and jumped over, naked (not sure how soon after catching her he jumped) he's been fined 20k by carnival and banned from all cruise lines for life.

Wow that sounds like a verse from a country blues song! Or maybe it could be an added verse to the Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen song The Down to Seeds and Stems Again Blues right after My Dog Died Last Night.

[ontheweb]

28 minutes ago, martinm said:

Why should we care about that? Clearly the young man didn't. 

Because we are human. And there are others his actions would directly affect. 

 

Yes, he is young and stupid, and you do not have to have empathy for him, but not caring at all?

[ray98]

We get it....you think a hug will fix it.....others don't.

[martinm]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Because we are human. And there are others his actions would directly affect. 

 

Yes, he is young and stupid, and you do not have to have empathy for him, but not caring at all?

I would not only not care I would be very mad at him for wasting my time. I have a limited amount of time on this world I have no time for selfish acts like his. 

[purplephenom]

On 5/22/2019 at 2:10 PM, Tracey.kinney425 said:

What I was told in fb group is that this guy was on his honeymoon, caught new bride cheating and jumped over, naked (not sure how soon after catching her he jumped) he's been fined 20k by carnival and banned from all cruise lines for life.

 

If this scenario is true, what a mess. I feel bad for everyone involved now- from him to other passengers on the ship.

[HillBilly Bob]

On 5/20/2019 at 11:16 PM, gtouch said:

You can't fix crazy......I wish we could.

But you can charge them for all the additional expenses involved in saving them.

[Organized Chaos]

On 5/22/2019 at 1:10 PM, Tracey.kinney425 said:

What I was told in fb group is that this guy was on his honeymoon, caught new bride cheating and jumped over, naked (not sure how soon after catching her he jumped) he's been fined 20k by carnival and banned from all cruise lines for life.

 

I have a hard time believing this. The whole "caught his wife cheating" story always seems to be the stereotypical scenario when a guy does something stupid, dangerous, illegal, or all of the above. Straight out of a movie. As a matter of fact, that very premise did make for an excellent movie, The Shawshank Redemption. In all of the articles I've read, Carnival said they didn't know why he went overboard or if it was intentional. They also refused to say whether or not they would take any action against him.

[chengkp75]

On 5/22/2019 at 6:10 PM, Tracey.kinney425 said:

What I was told in fb group is that this guy was on his honeymoon, caught new bride cheating and jumped over, naked (not sure how soon after catching her he jumped) he's been fined 20k by carnival and banned from all cruise lines for life.

While I can believe that this person has been placed on the "no cruise" list with Carnival, there is no legal justification or jurisdiction for any fine, let alone $20k.  Got to love social media commandos.

[AmazedByCruising]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

While I can believe that this person has been placed on the "no cruise" list with Carnival, there is no legal justification or jurisdiction for any fine, let alone $20k. 

 

I believe to have read you will get a nice bill presented when you unintentionally damage a door by "decorating" it using the wrong tape. It might be useless to try to get money from a 19 year old, but there are extra fuel costs. Phone calls from the media that you want to be answered correctly by calling a PR agency. Replacing lifebuoys. Hard to measure damage like at least some people thinking that it's easy to fall of a cruiseship and cancel their booking. The damage to Carnival is certainly more than 20K. A standardized "fine" doesn't sound obvious, but wouldn't Carnival be justified to claim at least some of the real costs incurred?

[Tracey.kinney425]

30 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

While I can believe that this person has been placed on the "no cruise" list with Carnival, there is no legal justification or jurisdiction for any fine, let alone $20k.  Got to love social media commandos.

I was thinking it was the cost of the rescue.

[tallyho8]

I believe that if desired, Carnival could try to sue him for damages but they have no jurisdiction to fine him. 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Tracey.kinney425 said:

I was thinking it was the cost of the rescue.

 

1 hour ago, tallyho8 said:

I believe that if desired, Carnival could try to sue him for damages but they have no jurisdiction to fine him. 

This, exactly.  If you go to your grocery store and trash an aisle of food, can the store "fine" you for the cost to clean it up, or would they need to go to court, and win their case in order to receive damages.

 

Besides which, if the ship made the next port on time, the only "cost" for the "rescue" would be any additional fuel burned, and for a one or two hour delay, that would not come anywhere near $20k.

Edited May 23, 2019 by chengkp75

[Tracey.kinney425]

31 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 

This, exactly.  If you go to your grocery store and trash an aisle of food, can the store "fine" you for the cost to clean it up, or would they need to go to court, and win their case in order to receive damages.

 

Besides which, if the ship made the next port on time, the only "cost" for the "rescue" would be any additional fuel burned, and for a one or two hour delay, that would not come anywhere near $20k.

well no, the store could not fine you that would actually be destruction of property maybe even vandalism so that's why they would definitely have to take you to court.

 

now I'm not saying you're wrong in the fact that maybe Carnival can't "fine" you. But to me, it makes sense that they would be able to. I'm not sure in what situations a company can "fine" someone versus having to take them to court like you mentioned. I don't know, maybe there's something in the agreement that we agreed to when we chose to take the cruise that allows them to fine us verse take him to court?

 

As far as what the 20K would be for, it would be for the fuel like you mentioned, the employees time to go rescue you, the use of lifeboat or boats, I don't know who gets charged from the coast guard if they get involved and I'm not sure that they were in this case.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Tracey.kinney425

[gtouch]

15 minutes ago, Tracey.kinney425 said:

well no, the store could not fine you that would actually be destruction of property maybe even vandalism so that's why they would definitely have to take you to court.

 

now I'm not saying you're wrong in the fact that maybe Carnival can't "fine" you. But to me, it makes sense that they would be able to. I'm not sure in what situations a company can "fine" someone versus having to take them to court like you mentioned. I don't know, maybe there's something in the agreement that we agreed to when we chose to take the cruise that allows them to fine us verse take him to court?

 

As far as what the 20K would be for, it would be for the fuel like you mentioned, the employees time to go rescue you, the use of lifeboat or boats, I don't know who gets charged from the coast guard if they get involved and I'm not sure that they were in this case.

Not an attorney nor do I play one on TV. But they probably "bill" him for the cost and if he doesn't pay they then can file in civil court to try and recover the cost. Just a guess.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Tracey.kinney425 said:

well no, the store could not fine you that would actually be destruction of property maybe even vandalism so that's why they would definitely have to take you to court.

 

now I'm not saying you're wrong in the fact that maybe Carnival can't "fine" you. But to me, it makes sense that they would be able to. I'm not sure in what situations a company can "fine" someone versus having to take them to court like you mentioned. I don't know, maybe there's something in the agreement that we agreed to when we chose to take the cruise that allows them to fine us verse take him to court?

 

As far as what the 20K would be for, it would be for the fuel like you mentioned, the employees time to go rescue you, the use of lifeboat or boats, I don't know who gets charged from the coast guard if they get involved and I'm not sure that they were in this case.

The crew's time is already paid for, whether they are manning a lifeboat or serving drinks, so that is not a cost incurred in the "rescue".  The lifeboat is there for that very reason, so it is also not an additional incurred cost.  Even if the USCG was called out, and mobilized a C-130 aircraft, a helicopter with rescue diver, and a couple of cutters from Key West, there would be no charge to either the person rescued nor the cruise line.  These services are provided free of charge under UNCLOS (UN Convention on Law of the Seas).  Similarly, the ship is bound under UNCLOS to provide search and rescue services, if they can, at no charge, regardless of what the cause of the incident was.

 

While the cruise ticket contract typically allows the company to recover costs of damages to the ship, this must be proved in a court of law before it can be levied.

 

Believe me, there will never be a "fine" or "damages" awarded, in this or any other similar case.

[d9704011]

International Convention on Maritime Search and Rescue

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The crew's time is already paid for, whether they are manning a lifeboat or serving drinks, so that is not a cost incurred in the "rescue".  The lifeboat is there for that very reason, so it is also not an additional incurred cost.  Even if the USCG was called out, and mobilized a C-130 aircraft, a helicopter with rescue diver, and a couple of cutters from Key West, there would be no charge to either the person rescued nor the cruise line.  These services are provided free of charge under UNCLOS (UN Convention on Law of the Seas).  Similarly, the ship is bound under UNCLOS to provide search and rescue services, if they can, at no charge, regardless of what the cause of the incident was.

 

While the cruise ticket contract typically allows the company to recover costs of damages to the ship, this must be proved in a court of law before it can be levied.

 

Believe me, there will never be a "fine" or "damages" awarded, in this or any other similar case.

I guess the facts get in the way of what everyone would hope to have happen.

 

Or maybe the rumor of a possible fine could make someone else think twice about doing something so stupid.

[Essiesmom]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

I guess the facts get in the way of what everyone would hope to have happen.

 

Or maybe the rumor of a possible fine could make someone else think twice about doing something so stupid.

Anyone doing something so stupid is not thinking once, let alone twice...

[mickeyd13]

On 5/23/2019 at 11:49 AM, Tracey.kinney425 said:

Deck right above lido. Not sure what deck that is on his ship on Horizon is deck 11.

He jumped from deck 10 which is the Lido deck on the Fascination. I was on the jogging track overlooking the lido deck when he jumped.

[chengkp75]

On 5/23/2019 at 10:40 PM, AmazedByCruising said:

 

I believe to have read you will get a nice bill presented when you unintentionally damage a door by "decorating" it using the wrong tape. It might be useless to try to get money from a 19 year old, but there are extra fuel costs. Phone calls from the media that you want to be answered correctly by calling a PR agency. Replacing lifebuoys. Hard to measure damage like at least some people thinking that it's easy to fall of a cruiseship and cancel their booking. The damage to Carnival is certainly more than 20K. A standardized "fine" doesn't sound obvious, but wouldn't Carnival be justified to claim at least some of the real costs incurred?

The cost to repair damages to the ship are specifically outlined in the ticket contract.  Costs to rescue someone are not, and for the reason that I cited, that the UNCLOS and SAR conventions preclude charging for rescue services.  And, as for "lost revenue" due to bad PR, again, that would have to be a civil court case, and would end up costing more than any recoverable damages. And the cruise line has "media consultants" on staff to handle incidents, and legal staff who are all getting paid whether some idiot jumps overboard or nothing happens.  So, while Carnival could sue for intangible losses (the tangible losses for liferings or lifeboat fuel cannot be recovered), they almost certainly will not, since it is a lose/lose scenario; "cruise ship sues passenger for rescue" looks just as bad as "passenger jumps overboard".

[Aplmac]

On 5/22/2019 at 7:39 PM, bury me at sea said:

My strongest feeling is gratitude to the crew members

who were placed in a dangerous situation

in launching and manning the lifeboat for the rescue operation.

.

That's what they train for!

 

When we're ashore, and the ship is almost deserted

all sorts of training exercises happen! Lifeboat, fire-fighting and otherwise.

.

[chengkp75]

If you look at the photos in the OP's link, you will see that it is in fact a lifeboat and not a tender.  And tenders are "true lifeboats" designed to survive the exact same conditions as the non-tender lifeboats, which is why they are included in the ship's lifesaving equipment inventory.

[Aplmac]

Something tells me

I'd rather have to go into a tender than a lifeboat

 

More space? better seating?