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Diamond Princess passenger "tested positive for Wuhan coronavirus"

gvre

By gvre,
in Princess Cruises

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SunNFunCruzer

SunNFunCruzer

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, ceilidh1 said:

If a passenger was tested on day 1 and came back clear, for example, then could they not have been taken off the ship then?

 

 

I posted about this last night.  It's my understanding that the virus can lay dormant for up to 14 days in a person's system (and there are some UK outlets reporting up to 23 days -- but I cannot vouch for their credibility *Independent + Daily Mail*). Imagine a husband and wife are together in a cabin and the wife doesn't start showing symptoms until the 12th-14th day, at which point she has a fever and starts coughing, spreading virus droplets in the cabin. The husband could then, theoretically, inhale a droplet of the virus and become infected on her 12th-14th day. If it then takes him 12-14 days to show symptoms, you'd need a 28-30 day quarantine to make sure that everyone was clear.  

 

Same holds true for others out on deck. Or those in adjacent balcony cabins. If the virus becomes "airborne" and is transmitted later in someones 14 day cycle, then a whole new 14 day cycle would have to begin to make sure there was no cross-contamination/virus spread.  Please tell me if there is a flaw in this logic.  Why is the Diamond only quarantined until February 19th?

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2730905-diamond-princess-passenger-tested-positive-for-wuhan-coronavirus/?do=findComment&comment=59363451
 

 

 

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Psoque Great Review Rare

Psoque

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, kent9xxx1 said:

 

You can stay on the ship and get quarantined on the ship.  I'm off that ship the moment it docks.  🙂  I rather get quarantined on land. 

I think for those stuck in Diamond Princess, getting off the ship is something they would desire.  I would feel the same way.  However, it is extremely tricky to move 3700 (or is lit 3600) people all at once and still keep the quarantine in place.  As I and other's said, the most important purpose of quarantine is to contain this particular outbreak on the ship, so that any "leakage" will not contribute more to a worldwide epidemic, which has not occurred yet (as far as we know).  Even though it is inconveniencing (which is not even a good word to describe their predicament) 3700 people on a cruise ship is a terrible thing, it is the best way to contain this outbreak that started on the ship.  Is it putting those (presumably uninfected) people at higher risk than flying them home?  Yes, but that's not an option either.  WHO and the Japanese government is obligated to contain the outbreak on the ship.  Assumption by some that Japan is doing this strictly to keep the virus away from Japan is totally ludicrous.  If that's what they wanted to do, they could have just refuse port entry, give the ship more fuel, and asked them to leave their waters ASAP.  Also, why would they be bringing those tested positive onshore, even those who are not Japanese? I think they are doing the right thing by keeping the quarantine on the ship.

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SunNFunCruzer

SunNFunCruzer

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

She has a Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/gcourter

 

 

I feel bad for all of them, but it seems to me the safest way to keep everyone else "safest" is to wait until 14 days after the last person is diagnosed.  You wouldn't necessarily have to keep everyone for that long, but they should keep anyone within breathing range of an infected person for that long.

 

The "extraction team" will need to take potentially contagious people onto Japanese soil to repatriate them.  Why would Japan take that risk?  Look at what's happening in China and how difficult the virus is to control. On the ship, and in specialized transport vehicles and hospitals, Japan is taking the risk to safeguard human life. It seems Gay and the others are currently uncomfortable, maybe extremely so, but that would not warrant the risk to the Japanese public of extraction (not to mention that... to steal a phrase from Orwell... "all animals are equal" ... Gay is no more equal than others who also want off the ship).

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Kmkub Great Review Rare

Kmkub

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Psoque said:

I think for those stuck in Diamond Princess, getting off the ship is something they would desire.  I would feel the same way.  However, it is extremely tricky to move 3700 (or is lit 3600) people all at once and still keep the quarantine in place.  As I and other's said, the most important purpose of quarantine is to contain this particular outbreak on the ship, so that any "leakage" will not contribute more to a worldwide epidemic, which has not occurred yet (as far as we know).  Even though it is inconveniencing (which is not even a good word to describe their predicament) 3700 people on a cruise ship is a terrible thing, it is the best way to contain this outbreak that started on the ship.  Is it putting those (presumably uninfected) people at higher risk than flying them home?  Yes, but that's not an option either.  WHO and the Japanese government is obligated to contain the outbreak on the ship.  Assumption by some that Japan is doing this strictly to keep the virus away from Japan is totally ludicrous.  If that's what they wanted to do, they could have just refuse port entry, give the ship more fuel, and asked them to leave their waters ASAP.  Also, why would they be bringing those tested positive onshore, even those who are not Japanese? I think they are doing the right thing by keeping the quarantine on the ship.

If I had to be quarantined in a foreign country, I can't imagine anywhere better than a cruise ship, frankly. Anywhere else they could come up with would require everyone to live in their own oxygen tent.

 

They are bringing infected people ashore to get them to a hospital for treatment. They are taking precautionary measures all along the way, and it involves many tents and hazmat suits.

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Psoque Great Review Rare

Psoque

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ceilidh1 said:

I have no medical training and finding it hard to understand this whole thing...I get that the virus has a 14 day incubation period, but what exactly does that mean (in simple terms)? If a passenger was tested on day 1 and came back clear, for example, then could they not have been taken off the ship then? OR does the test not provide conclusive results within the 14 days? If that is the case, then surely the tests that have come back clear are worthless? So sorry for my lack of understanding....I just don't get it!

One definition of incubation period is the time between exposure to the pathogen (in this case, 2019-nCoV) and when symptoms of the illness begin.

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Psoque Great Review Rare

Psoque

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ed01106 said:

The point of the quarantine is to protect Japan. 

This is not true.  If Japan wanted to just "protect Japan," they could have just given Diamond Princess more fuel and asked the ship to get the heck out of the Japanese waters.  The quarantine is to protect the rest of the world, not just Japan.  For that matter, they could have just asked them to go to Guam or somewhere and have them deal with the problem.  Despite your assumption, Japan is doing this as a service to the international community.

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cruiserchuck

cruiserchuck

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Psoque said:

This is not true.  If Japan wanted to just "protect Japan," they could have just given Diamond Princess more fuel and asked the ship to get the heck out of the Japanese waters.  The quarantine is to protect the rest of the world, not just Japan.  For that matter, they could have just asked them to go to Guam or somewhere and have them deal with the problem.  Despite your assumption, Japan is doing this as a service to the international community.

 

I think Japan is doing it in part because half the passengers on board are from Japan.  

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kent9xxx1

kent9xxx1

Posted
Posted

And a service to their own citizens as well.  
 

Japan promptly turned away the next ship.  My own cynicism, but likely due to not many Japanese on that one.  
 

Anyway, fresh news, Beijing and Shanghai are imposing partial lock down today.  Those are big cities.  Mask is a must.  
Tiny ship, mask is not a must.  You see where this is going.  

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3049891/beijing-and-shanghai-impose-new-controls-residents-china-battles

 

 

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ed01106

ed01106

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Psoque said:

This is not true.  If Japan wanted to just "protect Japan," they could have just given Diamond Princess more fuel and asked the ship to get the heck out of the Japanese waters.  The quarantine is to protect the rest of the world, not just Japan.  For that matter, they could have just asked them to go to Guam or somewhere and have them deal with the problem.  Despite your assumption, Japan is doing this as a service to the international community.

I agree.  Japan is rendering assistance in a prudent manner.  My point is that those who are demanding Japan move all the passengers onto land are being unreasonable

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Farts

Farts

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

I agree.  Japan is rendering assistance in a prudent manner.  My point is that those who are demanding Japan move all the passengers onto land are being unreasonable

There isn't a 3,600 bed hospital in japan or anywhere in the world. It would literally overwhelm the entire hospital system. 

 

For reference, a medium sized hospital is anywhere from 300-450 beds. 

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kent9xxx1

kent9xxx1

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Kmkub said:

If I had to be quarantined in a foreign country, I can't imagine anywhere better than a cruise ship, frankly. Anywhere else they could come up with would require everyone to live in their own oxygen tent.

 

They are bringing infected people ashore to get them to a hospital for treatment. They are taking precautionary measures all along the way, and it involves many tents and hazmat suits.


You live in an oxygen tent (worst case), you might be able to walk away without getting infected.

You live in your cabin, you will be off the ship with the guy in hazmat suit.  
I think you would rather take the tent.  

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kent9xxx1

kent9xxx1

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Farts said:

There isn't a 3,600 bed hospital in japan or anywhere in the world. It would literally overwhelm the entire hospital system. 

 

For reference, a medium sized hospital is anywhere from 300-450 beds. 


Tokyo alone has 650 hospitals.  

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npcl

npcl

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ceilidh1 said:

World Dream, but they have since been cleared

the Dream did not have any cases on board. They were quarantined because of a passenger 3 cruises ago, over 14 days, had later developed symptoms. The world does mostly short cruises 3, 5 and 6 day. Since the crew had been on board the they tested the entire crew then released everyone.

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generichandle

generichandle

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Farts said:

I wonder with all these new cases if the 14 day counter will start over again

Of course not. That is the point of the 14-day quarantine, to let the estimated incubation period run it's course, Presumably, those testing positive now are those who got it a week before the quarantine, so two weeks and symptoms. When those who got it just before quarantine, or didn't, run their whole 14 day course, hopefully, the rest were not exposed. 

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ceilidh1 "Live from...." Rare

ceilidh1

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Psoque said:

One definition of incubation period is the time between exposure to the pathogen (in this case, 2019-nCoV) and when symptoms of the illness begin.

Right - I get that piece. BUT if passengers were tested on day 1 and found to be clear then does that mean that they would have been safe to disembark? Let's assume they had the ability and means to test each and every passenger...would that have been enough to say they did not have the virus? OR would it have been pointless to test day 1 since the virus may or may not show at that point? We have seen cases where the virus has been found but there have been no symptoms, so could it have been found (or not) before the quarantine started?

 

Just curious, that's all.....and this is the question I would be asking if I was on that ship right now...

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