Predict when cruising will start again post-Coronavirus

[ollyoeno]

21 minutes ago, LittleFish1976 said:

 

I don't think we need to be told what we 'must' do. 

 

 

You're being told you 'must' stay at home, I'm not implying anything. At any rate, I did see this amazing couple taking the plunge.

[frantic36]

49 minutes ago, ollyoeno said:

 

You're being told you 'must' stay at home, I'm not implying anything. At any rate, I did see this amazing couple taking the plunge.

Deleted because you are allowed your opinion though I disagree with you.

Edited November 13, 2021 by frantic36

[frantic36]

3 hours ago, ollyoeno said:

 

Not meant as any form of political comment - I understand that publishers have to be careful what Australians are allowed to have opinions on these days!

 

Please don't be condescending. people here on this board are very wide read and follow world news. We understand that we will have to learn to live with Covid but want to do so with as high vaccination rates as possible. 

 

As a health professional I have nursed many with various respiratory diseases and still when I saw this MRI scan of an autopsy of someone who died with Covid I was shocked. It was like their scan showed a dry drowning with inflammatory tissue instead of water filling their lungs.

 

I am sorry if this is too stark for some but when people dismiss this as just another influenza I feel misinformation must be corrected.

 

So yes Covid will be with us for quite a while but we need to manage it and our risks sensibly including masking in crowds and vaccinations. I have a cruise booked in July, 2022 for the Western Med but I will do so with precautions including getting boosters.

[ilikeanswers]

2 hours ago, ollyoeno said:

You're being told you 'must' stay at home, I'm not implying anything. At any rate, I did see this amazing couple taking the plunge.

 

I am a little confused by this article. In the text she says she has never been to Israel but at the end there is a photo of her floating in the Dead Sea. Have I misunderstood something?  

[LincolnLegend]

I took it that he had never been to Israel, looks like she has.

[ollyoeno]

3 hours ago, frantic36 said:

 

Please don't be condescending.

 

Not that you speak for others, but I'm fairly certain the others wouldn't endorse having someones private medical images posted in a forum. If you are indeed a medical professional, presumably you are under some form of legal requirement not to disclose that image in public, either?

 

At no stage have I dismissed or suggested anything other than data freely available in the public domain. Suggesting I have is part of this issue. You hype up the alternate narrative, the politicos seize on it, and cancel cruises. Getting cruises restarted is all about risk management.

 

Whilst C-19 exists, there is no getting around the fundamental human right to freedom of movement under UN law. If you can fly in the sky, you can cruise on a boat.

Edited November 13, 2021 by ollyoeno

[ollyoeno]

Back to the important stuff.

 

Let's say 80% of the ships worldwide are now back in the water as many of these articles about Aussie cruising suggest. That leaves 20% which could head down to serve the market.

 

Feel free to add to this list of issues with the oz market:

• Are we seriously suggesting domestic cruises for Australians only when international visitors can arrive here?
• Which ships are presently free to come out of dry dock, and head down to Australia?
• Is it holiday season in Australia? If no, what are the profit margins like on out of season cruises? Why should they relocate to Australia?
• How is it going to be profitable to advertise limited itineraries intra-state, not inter-state?
• Can we crew the ships outside of Australia? Assuming they are sufficiently vaccinated, if the nationalities of our crew are not accepted by Australia owing to nationality restrictions, can we get a visa for them?

If you have answers, I'm all ears 

[Blackduck59]

Interesting read about the couple who have chosen the Viking world cruise. Good on them, to me the most daunting part is Fort Lauderdale, I wouldn't go to Florida on a bet...ever.

Interesting the comments about the dead sea photo, one does not have to go to "Israel" to get to the dead sea it also touches Jordan. Besides that, is that the most important detail of the story? Fair winds and following seas to those able to cruise.

[Porky55]

13 hours ago, portcbob said:

Not all queenslanders love her, us two for one. 

And us, not a favourite of ours either! 

[Chiliburn]

2 hours ago, ollyoeno said:

Back to the important stuff.

 

Let's say 80% of the ships worldwide are now back in the water as many of these articles about Aussie cruising suggest. That leaves 20% which could head down to serve the market.

 

Feel free to add to this list of issues with the oz market:

• Are we seriously suggesting domestic cruises for Australians only when international visitors can arrive here?
• Which ships are presently free to come out of dry dock, and head down to Australia?
• Is it holiday season in Australia? If no, what are the profit margins like on out of season cruises? Why should they relocate to Australia?
• How is it going to be profitable to advertise limited itineraries intra-state, not inter-state?
• Can we crew the ships outside of Australia? Assuming they are sufficiently vaccinated, if the nationalities of our crew are not accepted by Australia owing to nationality restrictions, can we get a visa for them?

If you have answers, I'm all ears 

To answer all those questions in detail would take some time.

I think we have given up on a traditional cruise season for 2021-2022.

The best we can hope for is a trial season before October next year.

But it takes time to sell the cabins and organise the logistics plus the staff.

 

There are a few ships that could be here say mid January-February next year doing short coastal cruises . 
2 carnival Australia ships in Dubai and Royal Princess is currently on route to Singapore 

There’s 2 P&O Australia ships and Radiance of the seas in the Mediterranean that may take longer.

There’s one of 2 ships that could be here on December 18 to start  BUT  I doubt it. Spectrum or Quantum of the seas are both fully crewed and Active.
But don’t hold your breath.

[Porky55]

57 minutes ago, Chiliburn said:

The best we can hope for is a trial season before October next year.

I do hope you are wrong, we have three cruises booked up to October next year 😳

[ollyoeno]

1 hour ago, Chiliburn said:

To answer all those questions in detail would take some time.

I think we have given up on a traditional cruise season for 2021-2022.

The best we can hope for is a trial season before October next year.

But it takes time to sell the cabins and organise the logistics plus the staff.

 

There are a few ships that could be here say mid January-February next year doing short coastal cruises . 
2 carnival Australia ships in Dubai and Royal Princess is currently on route to Singapore 

There’s 2 P&O Australia ships and Radiance of the seas in the Mediterranean that may take longer.

There’s one of 2 ships that could be here on December 18 to start  BUT  I doubt it. Spectrum or Quantum of the seas are both fully crewed and Active.
But don’t hold your breath.

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/ship-operations/nov-12-update-carnival-extends-australia-pause-cruising-resumes-buenos-aires

 

Does this imply that Carnival are looking to homeport in Sydney, or failed to do so due to cancellations?

[Porky55]

6 minutes ago, ollyoeno said:

 

Does this imply that Carnival are looking to homeport in Sydney, or failed to do so due to cancellations?

Carnival Splendour always homeports in Sydney - and Spirit from Brisbane - but Spirit will get the new BICT as her base. 
 

The whole new notification from Carnival.au  has embarking ports in Fremantle, Adelaide and Cairns dropped for now. The date only moved a few weeks, no big deal (glass half full thinking 😉)

[frantic36]

5 hours ago, ollyoeno said:

 

Not that you speak for others, but I'm fairly certain the others wouldn't endorse having someones private medical images posted in a forum. If you are indeed a medical professional, presumably you are under some form of legal requirement not to disclose that image in public, either?

 

Thank you for your questioning my ethics. Of course I would not disclose a patient's information on a public forum. The image was already in the public domain in a news article.

 

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/dying-of-covid-or-with-it-pathologists-take-on-conspiracy-theorists-20211111-p5982e.html

[ollyoeno]

37 minutes ago, Porky55 said:

Carnival Splendour always homeports in Sydney - and Spirit from Brisbane - but Spirit will get the new BICT as her base. 

 

Thanks Chilli and Porky.

 

I haven't sailed Carnival. Do splendour and spirit do a repositioning cruise to those ports from overseas / are they advertised at the moment?

[SinbadThePorter]

5 hours ago, ollyoeno said:

Whilst C-19 exists, there is no getting around the fundamental human right to freedom of movement under UN law. If you can fly in the sky, you can cruise on a boat.

 

You are probably referring to Article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The Declaration is not law, it is a collection of principles. If it were law our government would be in trouble for its treatment of refugees.

 

In practice, freedom of movement is limited by the laws of each country, particularly in respect of health and safety. We had laws regarding quarantine at state and Federal levels long before covid.

 

In the age of covid it is inevitable that we will continue to have restrictions on travel in order to minimise risk.

[ollyoeno]

 

13 minutes ago, SinbadThePorter said:

 

You are probably referring to Article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The Declaration is not law, it is a collection of principles

 

 

Referencing multiple clauses in the ICESCR but the article could be cited.

 

What I keep thinking about (this seems odd, but please answer me Sinbad) is... what if there's someone stuck the other side of the world, with deep vein thrombosis, medically prevented from flying, for instance. Surely that patient could be used as a landmark case to reopen other forms of travel? These cases exist, right? How do countries repatriate them?

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by ollyoeno

[Aus Traveller]

3 minutes ago, ollyoeno said:

Referencing multiple clauses in the ICESCR but the article could be cited.

 

What I keep thinking about (this seems odd, but please answer me Sinbad) is... what if there's someone stuck the other side of the world, with deep vein thrombosis, medically prevented from flying, for instance. Surely that patient could be used as a landmark case to reopen other forms of travel? These cases exist, right? How do countries repatriate them?

 

Irrespective of the situation regarding COVID, I do not see that it would be the government's responsibility to repatriate the hypothetical person with deep vein thrombosis.  If they wanted to travel across the world and could not fly, they could charter a yacht.

 

If they had travel insurance, they could call on their insurer to get them home. If they were living in the other country for a period of time (not holidaying and having travel insurance) they would probably have to rely on the medical system in that other country. I don't see that it would be the government's responsibility.

[SinbadThePorter]

19 minutes ago, ollyoeno said:

Referencing multiple clauses in the ICESCR but the article could be cited.

 

Once again, the ICESCR is not law. It's aspirational, in that it encourages the local laws of signatory nations to conform to the ICESCR, but does not supersede those local laws.

 

In any case, you may also want to reference Article 12, Part 2(c) of the ICESCR.

 

19 minutes ago, ollyoeno said:

what if there's someone stuck the other side of the world, with deep vein thrombosis, medically prevented from flying. Surely these cases exist, right? How do they repatriate them?

 

That's a somewhat random question. I assume that the DVT would be treated at the destination until the passenger meets the medical standards of the airline on which they intend to be repatriated.

Edited November 13, 2021 by SinbadThePorter

[Chiliburn]

2 hours ago, Porky55 said:

I do hope you are wrong, we have three cruises booked up to October next year 😳

It wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong.
Depends on the itinerary,if your cruises have NZ or PNG in them I would have my doubts.

[SinbadThePorter]

13 hours ago, ollyoeno said:

From 1 January 2020 to 3 November 2021 (the UK report) the deaths as a direct result of Covid-19 (i.e. not a co-morbidity):

 

You seem to be under a misapprehension here. Co-morbidity is an indication of the susceptibility to covid death, not an alternative cause of death.

 

All covid deaths are the direct result of covid.

 

It's rather like claiming that someone who died in a car crash died of cancer because they happened to be suffering from terminal cancer.

[OzKiwiJJ]

1 hour ago, ollyoeno said:

 

Thanks Chilli and Porky.

 

I haven't sailed Carnival. Do splendour and spirit do a repositioning cruise to those ports from overseas / are they advertised at the moment?

Prior to this pandemic, yes, Carnival did repositioning cruises just like most other cruise lines. However it is very unlikely that ships will be allowed to arrive here with passengers onboard during the initial restart whenever that happens. 

[lyndarra]

Have I got this right (in a nutshell)?

The Federal government says ships may come but it is up to individual states to let them in?

[Porky55]

57 minutes ago, Chiliburn said:

It wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong.
Depends on the itinerary,if your cruises have NZ or PNG in them I would have my doubts.

Nope just Aus domestic 🤞

[Chiliburn]

52 minutes ago, SinbadThePorter said:

 

You seem to be under a misapprehension here. Co-morbidity is an indication of the susceptibility to covid death, not an alternative cause of death.

 

All covid deaths are the direct result of covid.

 

It's rather like claiming that someone who died in a car crash died of cancer because they happened to be suffering from terminal cancer.

I know of a young lady that was very distressed about the whole Covid situation and overdosed on drugs.

And apparently the death certificate said as such.