Idled cruise ships into temporary hospital ships?

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, Honolulu Blue said:

Carnival Corporation is officially floating this idea:  https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/carnival-corporation-extends-offer-to-governments-and-health-authorities-to-consider-cruise-ships-as-temporary-hospitals-301026996.html

Of course they have, the charter rate would be incredible.

[ldubs]

Huh, a lot of interesting and sometimes successful ideas come from thinking outside of the box.  They don't all work, but it is generally a very good practice and should be encouraged.  

 

It will be interesting to see if Carnival's offer gains any traction.   

[AL3XCruise]

44 minutes ago, ldubs said:

Huh, a lot of interesting and sometimes successful ideas come from thinking outside of the box.  They don't all work, but it is generally a very good practice and should be encouraged.  

  

On 3/18/2020 at 2:12 PM, Milt Baker said:

A great think-outside-the-box friend just sent me this:

 

Being unaware that something has been tried before doesn't make an idea outside the box.  There have been many discussions, and some attempts, to use cruise ships in disaster response.  The results have generally been less than favorable. 

 

If someone had a new, creative way to leverage cruise ships that hasn't been attempted previously, that would be a great outside the box idea.  Given the sheer number of empty hotels, vacant real estate, and other options available, I think you'd need to come up with some kind of rational that supports using ships other these other options.  Arguably the ships biggest benefit is its ability to operate independently of public utilities and be more self sufficient than a hotel.  That advantage is less important in our current emergency. 

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, AL3XCruise said:

  

 

Being unaware that something has been tried before doesn't make an idea outside the box.  There have been many discussions, and some attempts, to use cruise ships in disaster response.  The results have generally been less than favorable. 

 

If someone had a new, creative way to leverage cruise ships that hasn't been attempted previously, that would be a great outside the box idea.  Given the sheer number of empty hotels, vacant real estate, and other options available, I think you'd need to come up with some kind of rational that supports using ships other these other options.  Arguably the ships biggest benefit is its ability to operate independently of public utilities and be more self sufficient than a hotel.  That advantage is less important in our current emergency. 

 

Maybe someone does.  Maybe they don't.  Have a new creative way to leverage cruise ships, that is.   I was just supporting the process.  

 

Take care.   

[Aquahound]

7 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

Carnival Corporation is officially floating this idea:  https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/carnival-corporation-extends-offer-to-governments-and-health-authorities-to-consider-cruise-ships-as-temporary-hospitals-301026996.html

 

During Katrina, FEMA paid Carnival over $74,000,000 to charter the Fascination.  Of course Carnival is offering their ships again.  If they're not profiting from cruises, why not try to make millions this way, all the while duping the general public into thinking they're such great humanitarians.  

[SbbquilterUT]

Issues not even considered in this thread - as well as direct patient care issues there would need laboratory, pharmacy, x-ray, respiratory therapy support (to name just a few of the support departments that make a hospital function.

[navybankerteacher]

46 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Maybe someone does.  Maybe they don't.  Have a new creative way to leverage cruise ships, that is.   I was just supporting the process.  

 

Take care.   

Perhaps cruise ships could be used to house Nationa Guard troops nationalized to maintain order if chaos breaks out.  All the gun purchasing   going on now gives pause for thought.

Edited March 20, 2020 by navybankerteacher

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Perhaps cruise ships could be used to house Nationa Guard troops nationalized to maintain order if chaos breaks out.  All the gun purchasing   going on now gives pause for thought.

 

Or maybe use it to quarantine all of those knucklehead spring breakers.  🤔

[AL3XCruise]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

Or maybe use it to quarantine all of those knucklehead spring breakers.  🤔

Now that is a valuable, out of the box idea! 🙂

[BlueRiband]

There will be plenty of vacant hotel rooms for patients or National Guard troops so cuise ships won't be needed.  In many disasters hotel rooms are needed by people who have had their homes destroyed or made uninhabitable but that's not the case in this situation. 

[RocketMan275]

Every one seems to be assuming these ships would be used for critical care.  South Korea implemented a policy where those who were infected but did not need critical care were housed in facilities that were commonly used for off site training sessions (BTW, my guard unit stayed in one during a couple of exercises.  Very simple facilities.  Bare rooms.  No kitchens.  We brought our own.).  This reserved hospitals for those in dire need and quarantined those who could have spread the disease but did not need respirators, etc,.  It's my understanding that the cruise lines are proposing a similar solution.  In South Korea, these facilities required on 200 medical personnel for a 1000 bed facility.

[ed01106]

19 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Every one seems to be assuming these ships would be used for critical care.  South Korea implemented a policy where those who were infected but did not need critical care were housed in facilities that were commonly used for off site training sessions (BTW, my guard unit stayed in one during a couple of exercises.  Very simple facilities.  Bare rooms.  No kitchens.  We brought our own.).  This reserved hospitals for those in dire need and quarantined those who could have spread the disease but did not need respirators, etc,.  It's my understanding that the cruise lines are proposing a similar solution.  In South Korea, these facilities required on 200 medical personnel for a 1000 bed facility.

While a cruise ship could work for such purpose.  We have empty hotels and college dorms that could serve the same function.  Probably at a much lower cost.  

 

If such facilities are needed. Which won’t start until we dramatically ramp up our testing, I would start with the state colleges dorms.  

 

The only reason cruise ships were used post hurricane was the lack of available temporary housing.  

[navybankerteacher]

3 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

While a cruise ship could work for such purpose.  We have empty hotels and college dorms that could serve the same function.  Probably at a much lower cost.  

 

If such facilities are needed. Which won’t start until we dramatically ramp up our testing, I would start with the state colleges dorms.  

 

The only reason cruise ships were used post hurricane was the lack of available temporary housing.  

State college dorms - many of which are yards away from medical school facilities/staff - would make much more sense than the less accessible cruise ships.

[ed01106]

28 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

State college dorms - many of which are yards away from medical school facilities/staff - would make much more sense than the less accessible cruise ships.

And even those not attached to med schools at minimum have a bio lab that could be converted for testing more easily than a ship.

 

Colleges offer vast more outdoor space allowing for fresh air and social distancing that a ship deck lacks.  

 

No need to move off shore a college to empty tanks or get fresh water.

 

The only downside to dorm over hotel or cruise ship is multiple rooms sharing a bathroom.  But if everyone in the facilities is confirmed to be infected does that matter? Very relevant if you have a population of suspected cases, but might not be if everyone is confirmed.

[Philob]

The Army Corp of Engineers has a plan to convert 10,000 hotel rooms into temporary ICU units around the NYC area.  

 

https://news.yahoo.com/army-corp-of-engineers-races-to-provide-10000-hospital-rooms-for-coronavirus-response-223023854.html

 

Rather than waiting for the Corp to show up, the plans are available to states to begin prepping.

 

 It was reported locally that half of San Francisco's hotels will be empty and shut down in another week, so approximately 15,000 rooms will be available.

 

The main problem as mentioned earlier continues to be staffing and equipment.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, ed01106 said:

While a cruise ship could work for such purpose.  We have empty hotels and college dorms that could serve the same function.  Probably at a much lower cost.  

Agreed.  My point was that cruise ships could be used, not as a substitute for intensive care, but as 'dorms' for mild cases.  Hotels would work as well.

 

Here's a link explaining what Korea did.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-south-korea-solved-its-acute-hospital-bed-shortage-11584874801?mod=hp_lead_pos10

 

The reason either hotel or ships or dorms would work is that it allows the authorities to 'isolate' those who are infected but with mild symptoms curtailing the spread of the virus while making hospital beds available to those truly in need.

 

Personally, I would prefer the hotel/ship option since the travel industry could use the help while the heavily endowed universities probably don't.

[ed01106]

12 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Agreed.  My point was that cruise ships could be used, not as a substitute for intensive care, but as 'dorms' for mild cases.  Hotels would work as well.

 

Here's a link explaining what Korea did.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-south-korea-solved-its-acute-hospital-bed-shortage-11584874801?mod=hp_lead_pos10

 

The reason either hotel or ships or dorms would work is that it allows the authorities to 'isolate' those who are infected but with mild symptoms curtailing the spread of the virus while making hospital beds available to those truly in need.

 

Personally, I would prefer the hotel/ship option since the travel industry could use the help while the heavily endowed universities probably don't.

If we are making choice based on economic stimulus, cruise ships are dead last.  Hotels employee american taxpayers, cruise ships don’t.  And I would rather keep our education system alive than our tourism industry.  But dorms particularly at state colleges and universities would be the most economic.  The state already owns them, there might be some accounting transfers of funds, but if the state of California pays for hotels or a cruiseship that requires actual cash.  If they use the dorms at UCLA they are either free or just transferring funds to something they need to support anyway.

[ed01106]

45 minutes ago, Philob said:

The main problem as mentioned earlier continues to be staffing and equipment.

I don’t know how you find the equipment and staff for that many ICU units.  Hotels can be used to isolate the mild and as hospices for the severe when we run out of ICU space😢

[CPT Trips]

Lots of more appropriate and feasible ways to get space to house patients if needed. 
 

DC and the White House need to do more to procure PPE and stop the price gouging that is occurring with states bidding against each other.

[ROXIETHEHORSE]

Honestly, I have no desire to cruise on a ship that was recently used as a floating hospital. 
 

no thanks.

[CruiserBruce]

26 minutes ago, ROXIETHEHORSE said:

Honestly, I have no desire to cruise on a ship that was recently used as a floating hospital. 
 

no thanks.

You may not even know. Same as with any hotel you might stay in.