Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[sail7seas]

2 minutes ago, sail7seas said:

   I hope    this  all  re solves in the best possible way and all who  are ill recover   soon and fully.  Th

 

 

Quote

snippet   of info here does not sound good.   .

 

 

I would not be packing yet for an April 2 Zaandam cruise

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by sail7seas

[Harley57]

16 minutes ago, ducklite said:

Sure, quarantined on a ship with a population of sick people almost doubled from the day before.  That is not a quarantine.  

I understand the quarantine aspect.  But surely something can be set up on land. Your lack of empathy for fellow human beings is astounding and not in a good way.  

[conwakr]

6 minutes ago, ducklite said:

So you want them to just mosey around the rest?  As if a couple hours ago it’s now 70 people sick. 

No, do a random quick test of symptomatic passengers which are now available and if Covid have a plan if not Covid then those folks have gotten the flu.  Many, many people do not need hospitalization even if they have Covid.  But if it's Covid then yes there needs to be a plan to get them someplace they can quarantine themselves if they do not need hospitalization.  I think we've moved passed the massive and massively expensive cruise ship panic deployment of every available resource and we've going to be even further past that by the time the ship gets to Florida. No one in this country should be moseying anywhere.  Does Florida even have a shelter in place order in place for the state?  If not then I hate to break it to Floridians but there are many, many carriers moseying around and these people are going to really want to get out of Florida unless they live there. 

[ducklite]

11 minutes ago, Harley57 said:

I understand the quarantine aspect.  But surely something can be set up on land. Your lack of empathy for fellow human beings is astounding and not in a good way.  

Maybe you missed where I suggested that a State less impacted such as MD or SC would be a better destination.  

[ducklite]

8 minutes ago, conwakr said:

No, do a random quick test of symptomatic passengers which are now available and if Covid have a plan if not Covid then those folks have gotten the flu.  Many, many people do not need hospitalization even if they have Covid.  But if it's Covid then yes there needs to be a plan to get them someplace they can quarantine themselves if they do not need hospitalization.  I think we've moved passed the massive and massively expensive cruise ship panic deployment of every available resource and we've going to be even further past that by the time the ship gets to Florida. No one in this country should be moseying anywhere.  Does Florida even have a shelter in place order in place for the state?  If not then I hate to break it to Floridians but there are many, many carriers moseying around and these people are going to really want to get out of Florida unless they live there. 

It goes County by County.  We are requiring anyone from NY/NJ/CT to self quarantine upon entering our borders.  Personally I feel that until we have a handle on this the borders should be shut to all but returning full time residents who should have to self quarantine for two weeks upon returning home.  

Edited March 25, 2020 by ducklite

[bouhunter]

29 minutes ago, ducklite said:

Maybe you missed where I suggested that a State less impacted such as MD or SC would be a better destination.  

No one has missed anything, you've said it all over and over and over...…..    give it a rest.

[Hlitner]

So lets do a partial hypothetical.  We are taking an August 16 day cruise from NYC to Southampton.  Lets assume there about 2000 souls on that ship.  A few days into the TA cruise a single passenger gets sick and tests positive for COVID-19.  That is because by August everyone will have the new simple COVID-19 test that takes about 45 min to give results.  Because of that single passenger that ship will now be refused docking at just about any port because it is likely that others on the ship will also have that virus but may not yet test positive.  This sounds like fiction, but given 2000 boarding in NYC, the odds are that 2 passengers will be positive for the virus.

 

I have no idea how cruise ships will ever be able to escape this new idea that ships are now a floating Typhoid Mary.  

 

Hank

 

[Wehwalt]

33 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I have no idea how cruise ships will ever be able to escape this new idea that ships are now a floating Typhoid Mary.  

 

 

Or that they are to be converted into floating prisons at a moment's notice in an excess of caution.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Wehwalt

[sansterre]

1 hour ago, Wehwalt said:

Or that they are to be converted into floating prisons at a moment's notice in an excess of caution.

OR, the Zaandam might just become the docked or anchored hospital for the sick passengers and crew currently on the ship.

Prior to disembarking, those who aren't sick would have to pass test(s) proving they will not spread the disease in Florida or wherever they are headed.

But here is my question:  How long does it take to get a result for the COVID test?  and can results be determined on the ship?  

I've been waiting 5 days for my result, but they tell me results may take another 5-7 days.  IF medical staff does have COVID-19 test on board the Zaandam (I assume they may have been picked up by the Eurodam in San Diego on March 18), do they also have a way to get the results?

One more question:  I know that a ship cannot move without a medical doctor on board. What staff would they refer to that were on the Rotterdam along with tests and medical supplies?  Would there be other medical staff/nurses also on board the  Rotterdam, Oosterdam, and Eurodam?

Edited March 25, 2020 by sansterre

[lvz2cruz]

18 minutes ago, sansterre said:

OR, the Zaandam might just become the docked or anchored hospital for the sick passengers and crew currently on the ship.

Prior to disembarking, those who aren't sick would have to pass test(s) proving they will not spread the disease in Florida or wherever they are headed.

But here is my question:  How long does it take to get a result for the COVID test?  and can results be determined on the ship?  

I've been waiting 5 days for my result, but they tell me results may take another 5-7 days.  IF medical staff does have COVID-19 test on board the Zaandam (I assume they may have been picked up by the Eurodam in San Diego on March 18), do they also have a way to get the results?

One more question:  I know that a ship cannot move without a medical doctor on board. What staff would they refer to that were on the Rotterdam along with tests and medical supplies?  Would there be other medical staff/nurses also on board the  Rotterdam, Oosterdam, and Eurodam?

I know of people in two different states who were tested and got results the next day.

[I like vacation]

29 minutes ago, sansterre said:

 

I've been waiting 5 days for my result, but they tell me results may take another 5-7 days.  

 

First off I hope you are well and not experiencing any symptoms or discomfort.  Can you ask for a new test?  Ten days to get results shoud be criminal.  

[slidergirl]

7 hours ago, Jimmycruiser said:

Stop spreading false information and hysteria. I am in Florida and you must be listening to fake news or just prone to panicking. Orlando hospitals are not near the breaking point yet. We are in better shape to help than many others at the moment.

 

You would feel differently if you were one of the passengers. Just hope they will be okay.

You do realize that the port is not in Orlando, but Fort Lauderdale right?   FAR closer to the epicenter of Florida's breakout than Orlando,  The government is pointing to Florida as the next state to have a huge breakout.  Every time I hear some yahoo saying "fake news", I know on which side you are leaning...

 

I wouldn't feel differently if I were one of the passengers.  I am already behaving as if I am infected and taking the precautions put forth by the CDC and WHO because I would not want to infect anyone.  Are you doing same?   I would do whatever the Federal Government told me I had to do and not whine about it.  If they stick me in a closed army base in the middle of a swamp, that's OK.  Maybe I'm altruistic and not self-absorbed/centered - that's just me. 

[slidergirl]

9 hours ago, ShipsAreTheBest said:

Bunkering fuel is not the issue here.  If it were, doing an unrep (underway replenishment) is NOT an option in any event.   That’s a perilous evolution under the best of circumstances.  You certainly don’t do it on a passsenger ship full of passengers.

Not being familiar with marine operations, I was just floating something I thought of.   I thought I had heard that they were going to be getting some fuel along with meds & personnel.  That's what made me thought of a closer Naval ship. 

 

OK.  The hamster wheel in my brain is spinning.  Here's a novel idea:  Have the Zaandam stop at the HAL private island.  Have a field hospital there to receive the passengers, treat those who need treatment, quarantine everyone else...  They wouldn't be going to a heavily populated area with COVID issues and there wouldn't be many to infect.  

Edited March 25, 2020 by slidergirl

[Captain_Morgan]

9 hours ago, HAL4NOW said:

The flu shot covers some influenza, but not all strains. It is based on a best guess as to what strain of flu will show up. Many factors can cause a flu outbreak, even within a highly vaccinated population.

 

9 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I just wanted to comment on your last paragraph.  The "common flu" as you call it, kills as many as sixty thousand Americans in a year.  Sure, we have a flu vaccine....but about half the country does not even bother to get that vaccine.  

 

Which is why i specifically acknowledged that the flu shot  is not a 'silver bullet' for the flu, but its at the very least a mitigating factor, which is more than what is currently in place for COVID-19.  Sure they're rolling out test kits now (better late than never?) but that doesn't solve the problem, it just confirms that the problem is more severe than the alternative, which in this case is to be expected that HAL refers to everything as 'flu like' despite the majority of people's minds going straight to COVID-19 the minute they hear about someone showing signs of illness.

 

As i say, here's hoping its just the flu but given the close contact and rapid transmission rate of the current bug it should come as no surprise to anyone that it might just be COVID.  Look at the Ruby Princess recently in Australia where they allowed everyone to just walk off despite some showing symptoms of illness and what happened?  The only way a quarantine works is if people are properly isolated which is next to impossible on a ship, hence the reason we're hearing about more and more ships across various brands being afflicted.  How many Marriott or Hilton hotels have been in the news for this?  Just some food for thought...

[bouhunter]

Some details on food, etc aboard Zaandam in this article:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/holland-america-cruise-zaandam-passengers-experience-lockdown-influenza-symptoms-2020-3

 

 

[ducklite]

11 hours ago, conwakr said:

No, do a random quick test of symptomatic passengers which are now available and if Covid have a plan if not Covid then those folks have gotten the flu.  Many, many people do not need hospitalization even if they have Covid.  But if it's Covid then yes there needs to be a plan to get them someplace they can quarantine themselves if they do not need hospitalization.  I think we've moved passed the massive and massively expensive cruise ship panic deployment of every available resource and we've going to be even further past that by the time the ship gets to Florida. No one in this country should be moseying anywhere.  Does Florida even have a shelter in place order in place for the state?  If not then I hate to break it to Floridians but there are many, many carriers moseying around and these people are going to really want to get out of Florida unless they live there. 

I'd say the better way to to it is to test everyone of the sick for the flu (flu tests not in short supply) and if it's not the flu, then start testing for CV.  You find one case and every person on that ship has to be considered infected.

[Wehwalt]

5 minutes ago, ducklite said:

I'd say the better way to to it is to test everyone of the sick for the flu (flu tests not in short supply) and if it's not the flu, then start testing for CV.  You find one case and every person on that ship has to be considered infected.

I suspect they think it's very likely coronavirus, thus the drastic measures, including the onboard lockdown and the dispatch of the Rotterdam.

[ducklite]

8 minutes ago, Wehwalt said:

I suspect they think it's very likely coronavirus, thus the drastic measures, including the onboard lockdown and the dispatch of the Rotterdam.

My concern is for the shortage in CV tests.  I was thinking rule out the flu first.

[voyageur9]

Update on positions. As of 0800 EDT, Rotterdam and Zaandam are roughly 1,360 nautical miles apart. Rotterdam's reported speed is 23.7 knots and Zandaam's is 20 knots. They are not headed directly for each other but rather are apparently intending a rendezvous at -- or offshore -- Balboa which is the southern or Pacific entrance to the Canal.  Given their current positions, courses and speeds, such a rendezvous is still about 36 hours away or shortly after local sunset Thursday.

Edited March 25, 2020 by voyageur9
typos

[LMaxwell]

8 hours ago, slidergirl said:

 Have a field hospital there to receive the passengers, treat those who need treatment, quarantine everyone else...  

The Bahamas will not accept the ship. 

[Himself]

21 hours ago, DeeniEncinitas said:

Captain Albert is an amazing Captain and as I have said prior kind,compassionate ,

and a man of integrity!!

We were on board The Rotterdam on March 11 heading to Panama Canal when in Puerto Vallarta we were told we would need to get off 3-15 and head home!

He made us feel important and at the same time told us he was there for us as his Captain! The crew is fantastic and went over and beyond!

CAPTAIN ALBERT AND HIS CREW WILL DO THE SAME TO HELP THE ZAANDAM!

Denise😊

 

 

Help is on the way as the medical team and crew of the Rotterdam is coming to the aid of all on the ZAANDAM.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Himself

[TiogaCruiser]

9 hours ago, lvz2cruz said:

I know of people in two different states who were tested and got results the next day.

The tests may be different. Some private labs now have their own. Processing time for some of the tests is quite long and only so many can be set up at a time, so the shear volume of tests can impact time.

[Barney10]

53 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

The Bahamas will not accept the ship. 

This is a private island owned by Carnival. Not sure Bahamas has any powers over it,

[LMaxwell]

3 minutes ago, Barney10 said:

This is a private island owned by Carnival. Not sure Bahamas has any powers over it,

 

Does Bahamas collect a head tax? 

[Wehwalt]

7 minutes ago, Barney10 said:

This is a private island owned by Carnival. Not sure Bahamas has any powers over it,

Pretty sure Bahamas could refuse access, to assure the health of the local people who operate it.