Ruby Princess police investigation

[Aus Traveller]

45 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

just saw this rather interesting, keep in mind it is an opinion piece

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-canada-and-australia-a-tale-of-two-covid-19-responses/

Hope it is informative

Interesting article. Thanks for posting. Australia's infection numbers are dropping 🙂 although we now have 70 deaths. They are announced as they happen with details, although sometimes the name is withheld, probably at the family's request.

[Pushka]

47 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

just saw this rather interesting, keep in mind it is an opinion piece

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-canada-and-australia-a-tale-of-two-covid-19-responses/

Hope it is informative

It is interesting to get a comparison with a similar country. The virus is like herding cats. 

[Blackduck59]

Just now, rickays said:

Thank you for posting, it was interesting reading.  Goes to show how quickly things can get out of control.  We are getting on top of it here in Australia but we cant let our guard down.

 

Indeed, Canada is slightly larger than Australia and we have about 12 million more people. Your biggest outbreak is in the province of Quebec. Which has more cases than all of Australia. Indeed don't let your guard down but I hope you'll let a couple of stray Canadians in next February.

[BRANDEE]

18 minutes ago, rickays said:

It is the media doing the "trial by media"  They get to choose what to write, fact or fiction or change fact to fiction, print part of a statement to fit in with their story.  They obviously decided to lay the blame at Princess.  Do you have any proof that the police are not including NSW Health, Border Patrol or Government in their investigation?

I just answered the questionnaire for the NSW Police Force.  It was totally geared to only find blame with the cruise company.  There was not one question regarding embarkation or disembarkation.  Every question was looking for something that was done wrong or suspicious on board.  They even asked for photos or videos of passengers being kept in  quarantined or taken off the ship.  I'm not an idiot..I know where this line of questioning is going. 

[Blackduck59]

3 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

I just answered the questionnaire for the NSW Police Force.  It was totally geared to only find blame with the cruise company.  There was not one question regarding embarkation or disembarkation.  Every question was looking for something that was done wrong or suspicious on board.  They even asked for photos or videos of passengers being kept in  quarantined or taken off the ship.  I'm not an idiot..I know where this line of questioning is going. 

 

Here I am commenting when I said I wouldn't. I do hope there was a place for you to do anecdotal accounts of your experience. It would be quite disappointing if there wasn't

 

[DiamondFour]

23 hours ago, robncruise said:

I was a passenger   (And have not received the Police Survey  )on the Ruby Princess which disembarked on 19th March  - 2 days not 3 ahead of schedule -  and not on the 14th March  or any other date that the media plucks out of the air  as in many reports I have read.   In fact it has been most troubling to see the media debacle . I don't believe I have read one report that does not contain factual errors.   Disappointing the Police give the survey to the media before the passengers.

It has been very frustrating and disturbing to see the calibre of the Australian authorities who are being assigned to investigate this. And the passengers who are giving incorrect  ( or their info is being twisted) info to the media  have just added to the .

It is so distressing that so many people have died and become sick after disembarking.    I am at a loss to figure this out.

Fortunately I did not get sick.  I did take a lot of precautions the usual handwashing and not sharing tables and not going to the buffet.  I concur with BRANDEE's "review"  on 17th April. There was virtually no sign of illness aboard  - actually far less than usual on cruises. I have been on 30 cruises and  on the Golden Princess in December/ Jan roundtrip Melbourne  there was so much flu / colds on board.    I also kept all the paperwork and have all the notifications NSW Health and Australian   plus 2 notices from Princess about on board hygiene = one specifically about Covid 19. We were also told at the safety drill to minimise physical interaction such as handshaking and hugging,  It could not have been clearer unless someone was deaf and blind  that it was necessary to be circumspect.   I was disgusted at some of the passengers total disregard of some of these instructions-  and I am sorry to have to say it frequently older people  and particularly the men - deliberately avoiding sanitisers coughing into hands or into the air.   To top it off I saw a group of people all hugging just prior to disembarkation    " lovely to have met you   we'll keep in touch "    I couldn't believe it,  However  the fact is the Australian authorities  should have been more diligent in checking  given that the pandemic was declared on 11 March.  I can see how people thought there was nothing to worry about  .  The day of departure Sydney ;s cafes were humming the Rocks market in full swing  no sign whatsoever of any social distancing or health advisories in the city.  

But still there was not the usual coughing sneezing that I had come to expect in the theatre prior to the start of the show and I went to the 3 production shows the last three nights of the cruise.

Just a thought to add to the possible transmission mechanism   - may the onboard scanners  people put hats phones all sorts of personal belongings in the trays.  Maybe even the Port authority scanners prior to boarding ?

This cruise was wonderful 

 

Perhaps everyone has missed this persons input and whoever they are they went to a great deal of trouble to write this and describe how things were at the time.

 

This site cruise critic has a relatively small amount of the cruising population that appear to use it. All the names that frequent the boards are the same each day, there is no new members and people like the one above are hardly welcome or ignored when joining up. Like this person has said and the trend on all sites around the internet people are out there saying what it was really like.

[BRANDEE]

38 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

Here I am commenting when I said I wouldn't. I do hope there was a place for you to do anecdotal accounts of your experience. It would be quite disappointing if there wasn't

 

I found a place to expound my comments in the question about if I have cruised before and they wanted to know if I thought things were different.  I let my feelings regarding no testing before or after the cruise..as well as at the airport on March 1st.

[lyndarra]

1 hour ago, DiamondFour said:

There is evidence here about how their investigation is definitely biased. What about defaming a cruise line? can the police force be sued for that? Too late when it ruins the reputation of a cruise line to the point that it will not return here preventing yours truly from going on a cruise with them out of Australia again.

Besides I am NOT the only one who suggested the investigation was biased or conciliated. 

Read my post more carefully. At no time did I mention bias. Conciliated, what's that supposed to mean?

Of course many comments from the media and government representatives are biased. We, on this forum are biased. Bias does not equal corrupt.

My comment was about you continually calling police corrupt. By doing so you tar the whole police  force with the one brush which, IMO, would be offensive to most, if not all, the hard working members of that force. Give it a break.

 

[rickays]

49 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

I just answered the questionnaire for the NSW Police Force.  It was totally geared to only find blame with the cruise company.  There was not one question regarding embarkation or disembarkation.  Every question was looking for something that was done wrong or suspicious on board.  They even asked for photos or videos of passengers being kept in  quarantined or taken off the ship.  I'm not an idiot..I know where this line of questioning is going. 

I don't think you are an idiot, but I wonder what questions about embarking or disembarking could help the investigation.  NSW Health cleared the ship to disembark based on what information it had received regarding illness onboard.  The questions to the passengers and crew are to help determine whether that information was correct or not from what was seen and happening on the ship.  If as you have previously noted that you hardly saw any illness etc that then helps the investigators determine that the information on illness numbers was most probably correct, BUT if everyone states that there was a lot of illness, people were confined to cabin and staff were sitting watch etc, then that would indicate that the information given about illness was not correct.  We dont know what questions are being asked of staff at NSW Health, Border Control, Port Authority etc.  This investigation could be the best things for Princess if it can show that they did everything right.  The media has already said they are guilty so I hope it can be proved they are wrong.

[lyndarra]

I happened to watch the Dr Phil Show about the coronavirus today and it was interesting, in its naivety, looking back.

The show was taped about a week after the pandemic announcement. At that point I think it was said NY or US (can't remember which), had less than 200 deaths. There was no studio audience. There were two doctors with qualifications or experience in viruses.

There was also a husband and wife guest who were on the Diamond Princess (it was called a "Japanese cruise ship" in a video clip). The husband had the virus but his wife did not. He said his main symptoms were nausea and a massive fever, but not the cough. They were confined to their cabin until the husband's temperature went down, I think they said after 6 days. They were then allowed to disembark and return to the US. They also said they were supplied with a thermometer.

One of the doctors claimed he would have no problem going to a cinema full of people. I reckon they were not fully convinced or aware of the seriousness of the situation, like many of us I suppose.

[lyndarra]

2 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

just saw this rather interesting, keep in mind it is an opinion piece

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-canada-and-australia-a-tale-of-two-covid-19-responses/

Hope it is informative

That is interesting reading.

[Porky55]

1 hour ago, BRANDEE said:

I just answered the questionnaire for the NSW Police Force. 

Well done BRANDEE - none received here yet! 
But we were on the earlier cruise 24/2 - 8/3 so perhaps we will get ours later in the week. Will let you know our opinion when (and IF ) it turns up.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Porky55

[Cruisegroover]

On 4/19/2020 at 3:20 PM, robncruise said:

I was a passenger   (And have not received the Police Survey  )on the Ruby Princess which disembarked on 19th March  - 2 days not 3 ahead of schedule -  and not on the 14th March  or any other date that the media plucks out of the air  as in many reports I have read.   In fact it has been most troubling to see the media debacle . I don't believe I have read one report that does not contain factual errors.   Disappointing the Police give the survey to the media before the passengers.

It has been very frustrating and disturbing to see the calibre of the Australian authorities who are being assigned to investigate this. And the passengers who are giving incorrect  ( or their info is being twisted) info to the media  have just added to the .

It is so distressing that so many people have died and become sick after disembarking.    I am at a loss to figure this out.

Fortunately I did not get sick.  I did take a lot of precautions the usual handwashing and not sharing tables and not going to the buffet.  I concur with BRANDEE's "review"  on 17th April. There was virtually no sign of illness aboard  - actually far less than usual on cruises. I have been on 30 cruises and  on the Golden Princess in December/ Jan roundtrip Melbourne  there was so much flu / colds on board.    I also kept all the paperwork and have all the notifications NSW Health and Australian   plus 2 notices from Princess about on board hygiene = one specifically about Covid 19. We were also told at the safety drill to minimise physical interaction such as handshaking and hugging,  It could not have been clearer unless someone was deaf and blind  that it was necessary to be circumspect.   I was disgusted at some of the passengers total disregard of some of these instructions-  and I am sorry to have to say it frequently older people  and particularly the men - deliberately avoiding sanitisers coughing into hands or into the air.   To top it off I saw a group of people all hugging just prior to disembarkation    " lovely to have met you   we'll keep in touch "    I couldn't believe it,  However  the fact is the Australian authorities  should have been more diligent in checking  given that the pandemic was declared on 11 March.  I can see how people thought there was nothing to worry about  .  The day of departure Sydney ;s cafes were humming the Rocks market in full swing  no sign whatsoever of any social distancing or health advisories in the city.  

But still there was not the usual coughing sneezing that I had come to expect in the theatre prior to the start of the show and I went to the 3 production shows the last three nights of the cruise.

Just a thought to add to the possible transmission mechanism   - may the onboard scanners  people put hats phones all sorts of personal belongings in the trays.  Maybe even the Port authority scanners prior to boarding ?

This cruise was wonderful 

 

Thanks very much for that insight and some very true words there.

 

[The_Big_M]

6 hours ago, Pushka said:

I'll try again. Not sure what happened prior.  Coming from WHO that is indeed politic condemnation. 

 

Not really. When they condemn something they condemn it. "condemn in the strongest possible terms"

 

https://www.afro.who.int/news/ministry-health-and-united-nations-condemn-attack-health-worker-supporting-ebola-response

 

 

[The_Big_M]

4 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

You are correct Sir (I assume it is sir) I am a cabinet maker. I do however have a slew of friends who either are or were members of the RCMP including the Corps Sargeant Major, an Inspector and a bunch of Staff Sargeants. Also members of several local police departments across Canada. So while we have heard many conspiracy theories from some, I'm thinking that somewhere in the 3 investigations the truth will come out. That being said I'm certain that some will not be satisfied.

 

I'm optimistic that it may come out in those investigations.

 

I'm not impressed that they are dragging the name of this company through the mud in their pursuit. And as said previously, some remember the impressions along the way, not necessarily the outcome.

[Aus Traveller]

2 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

I just answered the questionnaire for the NSW Police Force.  It was totally geared to only find blame with the cruise company.  There was not one question regarding embarkation or disembarkation.  Every question was looking for something that was done wrong or suspicious on board.  They even asked for photos or videos of passengers being kept in  quarantined or taken off the ship.  I'm not an idiot..I know where this line of questioning is going. 

I am disappointed in what you say, but I should not be surprised.

 

Why would you have photos of another passenger in quarantine? Princess' records will show that, but I hope a passenger who was asked to go into quarantine, responds to the questionnaire.

[Pushka]

43 minutes ago, The_Big_M said:

 

Not really. When they condemn something they condemn it. "condemn in the strongest possible terms"

 

https://www.afro.who.int/news/ministry-health-and-united-nations-condemn-attack-health-worker-supporting-ebola-response

 

 

Easy target. Violence to health worker.  China not involved. No political nor financial risk to that one. 

[ilikeanswers]

2 hours ago, rickays said:

I don't think you are an idiot, but I wonder what questions about embarking or disembarking could help the investigation.  NSW Health cleared the ship to disembark based on what information it had received regarding illness onboard.  The questions to the passengers and crew are to help determine whether that information was correct or not from what was seen and happening on the ship.  If as you have previously noted that you hardly saw any illness etc that then helps the investigators determine that the information on illness numbers was most probably correct, BUT if everyone states that there was a lot of illness, people were confined to cabin and staff were sitting watch etc, then that would indicate that the information given about illness was not correct.  We dont know what questions are being asked of staff at NSW Health, Border Control, Port Authority etc.  This investigation could be the best things for Princess if it can show that they did everything right.  The media has already said they are guilty so I hope it can be proved they are wrong.

 

Everyone is condemning the investigations because of a few sound bites in the media and that is probably why people are preceiving ulterior motives in things like the questionaire🙄. There are lots of people in the investigations who we will never see in the media and are probably doing most of the work compared to the investigation spokes people. It is kind of sad that the first assumption is that they are being unprofessional😔.

Edited April 20, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[The_Big_M]

1 hour ago, Pushka said:

Easy target. Violence to health worker.  China not involved. No political nor financial risk to that one. 

 

Sure, but the comments they made were mild, and also not directed at Australia.

[robncruise]

New to Cruise Critic , As mentioned in my first  post I was on the Ruby Princess on the 8th  - 19th March voyage,

To compensate for the shortened cruise and missing 3 ports we were offered 2 options,    was worded in a strange way but the choices were   75% FCC or  25% refund plus a 25% FCC to be used on any voyage before 1 May 2022.

BTW  I have received the NSW Police Survey  and  concur with BRANDEE that  the questions seem to have no relevance to investigating what role  the Australian authorities played in this tragedy.

I should also like to add that I "got distracted" and didn't complete my last post.  

It was a wonderful cruise   - the staff were exceptional . the food was superior to my recent cruises on Golden and Diamond Princess . The shows were different from those I had seen over and over for the past 3 years the ports we visited were great . This was my sixth time doing a round New Zealand and it didn't disappoint  until I got home.   The tragic events that have unfolded have certainly tainted what was a wonderful experience 

[BRANDEE]

8 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

I am disappointed in what you say, but I should not be surprised.

 

Why would you have photos of another passenger in quarantine? Princess' records will show that, but I hope a passenger who was asked to go into quarantine, responds to the questionnaire.

My husband is a retired federal criminal investigator for the internal revenue service of the united states government (40yrs)...This is his opinion which happens to be the same as mine. Not a first but pretty close...

 

He read the questions on the survey, especially commenting on bold print questions that become smaller less highlighted questions and laughed his ass off.  He especially noted the bold print question..Do you have any photos or videos of the cruise? and when you click that line a smaller..lighter printed question..Did they capture anybody in isolation, ill or disembarking the cruise? He asked if we had a picture of the door of our neighbors..do not disturb sign .. for the two first days.  Maybe they had covid and were hiding out..we thought they were just tired from travel or honeymooners..

 

He actually doesn't want to answer..total waste of time..it is a one sided survey for the purpose of accusing one company over another..this survey should have no bias.  To consider this a criminal investigation all questions should be asked.  Without questions regarding our embarkation and disembarkation all the facts are not there. How 19 Australians died from the ship includes how did someone sick get on and how did someone sick get off..not just did they clean the salt and pepper shakers.

[By The Bay]

"Carnival Australia confirmed on Monday it would offer a full refund to guests on the cruise that returned to Sydney on March 19." From SMH.

 

I can find nothing about this on Princess website, FB or Twitter. Has anybody received this information direct from Princess?

[Aus Traveller]

6 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

My husband is a retired federal criminal investigator for the internal revenue service of the united states government (40yrs)...This is his opinion which happens to be the same as mine. Not a first but pretty close...

 

He read the questions on the survey, especially commenting on bold print questions that become smaller less highlighted questions and laughed his ass off.  He especially noted the bold print question..Do you have any photos or videos of the cruise? and when you click that line a smaller..lighter printed question..Did they capture anybody in isolation, ill or disembarking the cruise? He asked if we had a picture of the door of our neighbors..do not disturb sign .. for the two first days.  Maybe they had covid and were hiding out..we thought they were just tired from travel or honeymooners..

 

He actually doesn't want to answer..total waste of time..it is a one sided survey for the purpose of accusing one company over another..this survey should have no bias.  To consider this a criminal investigation all questions should be asked.  Without questions regarding our embarkation and disembarkation all the facts are not there. How 19 Australians died from the ship includes how did someone sick get on and how did someone sick get off..not just did they clean the salt and pepper shakers.

Please encourage your husband to answer the survey. The investigators need responses from people who can give intelligent and reasoned answers, not just from those who answer with what is now, the benefit of hindsight - "Oh, yes, there were obviously people on board with COVID" type of answer. You and your husband can help a lot by giving information on cleaning and prevention measures you saw being used on board and also the six information sheets you received. You are experienced cruises and know what is usual and what is not.🙂

 

I will play Devil's Advocat for a minute. Maybe the investigators can get enough information about embarkation and disembarkation from the records on the Ruby Princess and from NSW Health and Border Force.

[Aus Traveller]

I have been concerned that the Police Commissioner's (to me, crackpot) theory of "The kitchen worker done it" will become a fact in some people's minds. There is an example in The Weekend Australian in a column by Katrina Grace Kelly about life after COVID. She wrote:

Consider this; police now believe a kitchen worker with a virus on the Ruby Princess infected hundreds of people and to date, caused, 19 deaths. .. I won't be eating food prepared by anyone else for a very, very long time.

 

Even if the Inquiries conclude that a kitchen worker didn't take the virus on board, it will take a lot for the public perception to change. An unintended consequence of the Police Commissioner's theory could be some distrust of restaurants and take-away businesses.

[subaru94]

18 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

I just answered the questionnaire for the NSW Police Force.  It was totally geared to only find blame with the cruise company.  There was not one question regarding embarkation or disembarkation.  Every question was looking for something that was done wrong or suspicious on board.  They even asked for photos or videos of passengers being kept in  quarantined or taken off the ship.  I'm not an idiot..I know where this line of questioning is going. 

That's really disappointing so much for finding out the truth when the NSW Police Force don't ask the obvious question as it was the disembarkation that was the biggest question.