SS Future Re-Open Plan: Timing, Testing Needs??!!

[brimary]

Thanks for your helpful info Terry.Just heard on news that Cunard not sailing again until at least May 2021!

[Randyk47]

5 hours ago, brimary said:

Thanks for your helpful info Terry.Just heard on news that Cunard not sailing again until at least May 2021!

Actually I thought they announced a phased resumption of cruises starting with one ship in March and the final in May.   Did it change again?   
 

By the way the first sailing of the Spirit Saudi charters has returned to port with a suspected case of Covid-19.  I haven’t been able much more than this one article.   https://english.alarabiya.net/en/coronavirus/2020/08/29/Coronavirus-Cruise-ship-in-Saudi-Arabia-returns-after-suspected-COVID-19-case.html

[chrism23]

21 hours ago, Randyk47 said:

Spirit Saudi charters has returned to port with a suspected case of Covid-19.

This points out the problem of SS or anyone else returning to sea.  What is going to happen here  is that everyone on the ship who came in contact for more than 5 minutes or so with the infected person will be tested and in all likelihood slammed into a 14 day isolation or quarantine.  If the person was a food service employee or someone who came in contact with a lot of passengers it will be a nightmare.  There is no real way around this.  It should serve as a example as to how hard it is going to be for any ship to sail.  The more I think about this and the more that minor events like this can become so complicated, just shouts at me how difficult getting back to sea is going to be.  Stay healthy.  

[Randyk47]

2 hours ago, chrism23 said:

This points out the problem of SS or anyone else returning to sea.  What is going to happen here  is that everyone on the ship who came in contact for more than 5 minutes or so with the infected person will be tested and in all likelihood slammed into a 14 day isolation or quarantine.  If the person was a food service employee or someone who came in contact with a lot of passengers it will be a nightmare.  There is no real way around this.  It should serve as a example as to how hard it is going to be for any ship to sail.  The more I think about this and the more that minor events like this can become so complicated, just shouts at me how difficult getting back to sea is going to be.  Stay healthy.  

It just hits me how fragile the whole situation is right now.   Whether it was a true or false positive the fact is that one person who tests positive can throw a whole cruise into a tail spin.   We can say it is over action, we can question the procedures and processes in place to screen passengers and crew, we can wonder if on board sanitation and physical distancing are or were sufficient, and those are just a few aspects or considerations off the top of my head.   As I have posted before, for at least my wife and I, there are still more questions than answers.   Personally I’m going to have to see a lot more answers before I cruise again.  

Edited August 31, 2020 by Randyk47

[TLCOhio]

2 hours ago, chrism23 said:

This points out the problem of SS or anyone else returning to sea.  What is going to happen here  is that everyone on the ship who came in contact for more than 5 minutes or so with the infected person will be tested and in all likelihood slammed into a 14 day isolation or quarantine.  If the person was a food service employee or someone who came in contact with a lot of passengers it will be a nightmare.  There is no real way around this.  It should serve as a example as to how hard it is going to be for any ship to sail.  The more I think about this and the more that minor events like this can become so complicated, just shouts at me how difficult getting back to sea is going to be.  Stay healthy.  

 

Agree with the above comments and follow-up that these issues an be BOTH complicated and challenging.  See below as just one more example for how "things" can look OK or good . . . and then go bad.  Many questions needing to be  answered.  Not easy or simple.  Nor, quick!!  

 

From the this news site listed below yesterday, they had this headline: “Paradise lost: How Hawaii went from Covid-19 star to cautionary tale” with these highlights: “Hawaii’s control of the coronavirus has swiftly unraveled this summer, transforming what was the nation’s best-performing state into one of the worst. Just two months ago, the island state had the fewest cases per capita in the country at less than two dozen per day. Democratic Gov. David Ige was praised for acting early to close Hawaii’s borders and impose strict quarantines, a painful economic sacrifice for a state heavily dependent on tourism.  But a ten-fold surge in coronavirus infections and hospitalizations over the last month has triggered new shutdown orders and a scramble to bolster the public health measures state officials neglected before reopening. When the state was locked down and caseloads were smaller, a key to Hawaii’s success was quick testing and contact tracing to find people exposed to the virus. But failure to build up that capacity for reopening, along with growing public complacency around social distancing measures, allowed the outbreak to spiral out of control, say numerous state officials. State officials are again clamping down on economic activity as over 200 new infections are reported daily, implementing restrictions reminiscent of the pandemic’s early days.”

 

Randy is correct in saying: "It just hits me how fragile the whole situation is right now."

 

 

Full story on Hawaii at:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/30/hawaii-coronavirus-cautionary-tale-404564

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

From late 2018, see “Holy Lands, Egypt, Jordan, Oman, Dubai, Greece, etc.”, with many visuals, details and ideas for the historic and scenic Middle East. Now at 18,670 views.  Connect at:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2607054-livenautica-greece-holy-lands-egypt-dubai-terrypix’s/

[Lois R]

Good morning, so will any of you be doing a land trip then? Just wondering if that is in your thought process, for example, in the spring of 2021?  

 

[worldtraveller99]

I postponed our July 2020 SS Alaska cruise to July 2021 (with FCC). I would assume that if that cannot go they would postpone it to July 2022 ad infinitum? So far I received the flight monies refunded (booked separately by me) and I won't rebook those until much nearer the date, when I think it will actually go.  

 

We also had a weekend in Valencia booked for March - refunded by BA - and again if I think that is a runner I will rebook for April 2021 at the last minute. Finally, in a spirit of eternal optimism I booked a Tauck Christmas Market Rhine river cruise in June for this November - again cancelled and refunded - which I will rebook when I think that will be good too - probably in 2022.

 

It is all an awful shame, I really hope that hospitalizations go down sufficiently that the pandemic is downgraded to another flu - and with a vaccine I guess. 

[Randyk47]

41 minutes ago, Lois R said:

Good morning, so will any of you be doing a land trip then? Just wondering if that is in your thought process, for example, in the spring of 2021?  

 

We are considering going to visit friends in Georgia though maybe a little later in the year than spring.  They live near Greensboro on Lake Oconee.   They have a huge house with the amenities of a small resort.  Of course the lake, a powerboat, kayaks, a pool, and a guest bedroom that is pretty a full second master suite on the lower floor.   Their house is on three acres, private and isolated from their neighbors.  They, like us, have stayed relatively safe and healthy doing mostly home delivery and curbside pick up for their essentials.    The only question now is how we might get there.   Past trips we’ve taken a direct flight to Atlanta where they’ve met us at the airport.   As much as I hate driving long distances we’re actually considering driving the 1,100 miles.  Flying or driving both have their up and downsides so it will depend on the situation at the time.    

[Lois R]

Hi Randy, your friend's place sounds lovely.  Greensboro, Georgia? Never heard of it. Greensboro, North Carolina I know about.....where is Greensboro, Georgia?

 

I just googled it...........looks like a really small place.........

 

[Randyk47]

12 minutes ago, Lois R said:

Hi Randy, your friend's place sounds lovely.  Greensboro, Georgia? Never heard of it. Greensboro, North Carolina I know about.....where is Greensboro, Georgia?

 

I just googled it...........looks like a really small place.........

 

Greensboro is indeed not all that large and very country compared to Atlanta.  It’s about 70 miles east of Atlanta.  Our friends moved there from Atlanta to get away from the hustle and bustle and to put themselves kind of half way between their children who live in Atlanta and the ones in Augusta.    They actually see more of their children and grandchildren than when they lived in Atlanta.  

[TLCOhio]

1 hour ago, Lois R said:

Good morning, so will any of you be doing a land trip then? Just wondering if that is in your thought process, for example, in the spring of 2021?  

 

Wonderful follow-up question from Lois.  Nice responses back from Randy and worldtraveller99.  For worldtraveller99, happy to share more Alaska info and background per our exploring there last summer and on the Silver Muse.  Loved our first visit to western Canada and Alaska!!

 

In mid-September, we are doing a driving trip over to Philadelphia for an outdoor wedding, plus some other sight-seeing in that historic area with great museums and excellent dining.  Any good tips and suggestions from those in the Philadelphia area??  Will be very cautious and careful. My wife, a R.N., has a small immune deficiency and we try to be very sensitive to these issues and questions.

 

For late January 2021, we have a couple of reservations in the Key Largo area of the enjoyable Florida Keys as a potential mid-winter "get-away", if and if.  Nothing locked in.  Just have that potential on hold . . . if we need that period and timing for an "ESCAPE!!".  We will "need" it, but how safe and stable this situation will be in five months is very up in the air and uncertain. As of right now.  No idea if we would drive or fly to get down there.  

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Completed last summer Calgary, Jasper/Banff National Parks, Western Canada Rocky Mountaineer rail adventure, Vancouver, sailing up to Alaska, post-cruise excursion to Denali, etc.  Many visuals and details from our first in these scenic areas!  Live/blog at: 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2682584-live-terryohio-silver-muse-alaska-canadarockies-pix’s/

[worldtraveller99]

Thank you Terry - I will ask lots of questions when I know we are going!

[Stumblefoot]

2 hours ago, Lois R said:

...so will any of you be doing a land trip then?

 

Yes, lots of skiing is planned this winter, so we’ll be chasing snow between CO, UT, ID, and CA.  And, with our travel trailer we’ll probably try and chase some warmth this winter too.  There is talk of pulling it across country for a visit to Florida at some point.

[etual324]

1 hour ago, Stumblefoot said:

Yes, lots of skiing is planned this winter, so we’ll be chasing snow between CO, UT, ID, and CA.  And, with our travel trailer we’ll probably try and chase some warmth this winter too.  There is talk of pulling it across country for a visit to Florida at some point.

If your near Jacksonville or Savannah  let us know

Edited August 31, 2020 by etual324
error

[dawntrdr]

2 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

 Any good tips and suggestions from those in the Philadelphia area??  

 

One our our favorite places is the Twisted Tail:  http://thetwistedtail.com/.   It looks like the City has permitted the restaurants in that area to block off the street and expand their outside dining.

[TLCOhio]

1 hour ago, dawntrdr said:

One our our favorite places is the Twisted Tail:  http://thetwistedtail.com/.   It looks like the City has permitted the restaurants in that area to block off the street and expand their outside dining.

 

Appreciate this wonderful Philadelphia tip and follow-up.  Looked at their website.  Good news?  Great menu and interesting location.  Bad news?  They are only open evenings.  Not possible for doing lunch there during our visiting time in the main city.  The wedding Saturday is in the suburbs north of Philadelphia    Am saving this suggestion.  Keep it coming.   Welcome any and all ideas and insights!! 

 

From the Wall Street Journal's MarketWatch section this morning, they had this headline: “Here are the big winners among U.S. stocks during a sizzling August” with a focus on the three major cruise line stocks that were among the top 20 stock "winnesr" for the month of August among the S&P 500.

 

Here are some of their story highlights: “August has been a strong month for broad U.S. stock indexes — the best since the April bounce-back from the pandemic lows in March  .In addition to the technology rally, there have been partial rebounds for troubled industries, including cruise lines, airlines, and hotel and casino operators.”

 

For August 2020, here is how the three main cruise lines ranked among among the S&P 500.  All three stocks were in the top twenty grouping:

2. Royal Caribbean Group                                 Up 41.3%

8. Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd.         Up 26.1%

19. Carnival Corp.                                               Up 21.1%

 

Why is this important?  Wall Street confidence helps these cruise lines borrow and raise more money to refund payments, sustain operations until a re-start can actually happen, etc.

 

Full story at:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/here-are-the-big-winners-among-us-stocks-during-a-sizzling-august-2020-08-31?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D33151612543613868540432315688083254519|MCORGID%3DCB68E4BA55144CAA0A4C98A5%40AdobeOrg|TS%3D1598887956

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Barcelona/Med: June 2011, with stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Great visuals with key highlights, tips, etc. Live/blog now at 252,032 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

Edited August 31, 2020 by TLCOhio

[TLCOhio]

From the trade publication Travel Weekly today, they had this headline: “All ashore -- but only on the cruise lines' terms” with these highlights: “Large-ship cruising will be slowly restarting in Europe this month and next, and at least one emerging protocol will result in a profoundly different sailing experience: Passengers can only leave ships at port on official cruise line shore excursions. MSC Cruises resumed cruising earlier this month on the MSC Grandiosa, operating at 70% capacity and with Europeans only, while Costa Cruises plans to launch the Costa Deliziosa on Sept. 6 from Trieste, Italy, allowing only Italians to sail. The Costa Diadema is set to follow on Sept. 19. On initial itineraries, at least, passengers on both lines will not be permitted ashore unless they're on a cruise-sanctioned excursion. The tour groups will be smaller to enable social distancing and will follow other Covid-19 protocols that the lines have in place.  Several travel advisors said that people who love to cruise would not be turned off by the prospect, at least not at first. 'The cruise lines are trying to maintain the 'travel bubble effect.'   'Having shore excursions where the staff are tested and sanitization procedures are vetted is the right thing to do and a smart way cruise lines can exist in this Covid-19 environment. Susan Walsh in Dallas said that although many of her clients prefer private, individualized tours and eschew motorcoaches, they also want to cruise again as soon as possible.”

 

Agree or disagree as to this "trade-off" for sailing again sooner . . . VERSUS . . . waiting till when "full freedom" is allowed for such private/DIY port touring??

 

Full story at:

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/all-ashore-on-cruise-lines-terms

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise from Copenhagen, July 2010, to the top of Europe. Scenic visuals with key tips. Live/blog at 240,350 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[Lois R]

2 hours ago, dawntrdr said:

 

One our our favorite places is the Twisted Tail:  http://thetwistedtail.com/.   It looks like the City has permitted the restaurants in that area to block off the street and expand their outside dining.

If I ever come up to Philly I will be eating here😃..wow, what a great looking menu!!!!!!

[brimary]

TLCohio.......Thanks for the update.Negative from us re only allowed off future cruises if taking official excursions.Having Done most of the excursions in our first ten years of cruising latterly our recent cruises have been do it yourself when in port so sadly if this became Silversea policy we have  already completed our SS cruising days.Hopefully this policy will be reviewed prior to sailing recommencing in 2021/22.

[crusinbanjo]

Thanks TLCohio for the update Mrs Banjo and I would be a NO if we are forced to only accept cruise line tours.  We have, and continue, to use the cruise ships tours when they appear to be interesting, but like brimary said, we have done most of the lines Tours in our first 20 years of cruising and now do most touring either privately or on our own, walking off the ship.   

[chrism23]

10 minutes ago, crusinbanjo said:

Thanks TLCohio for the update Mrs Banjo and I would be a NO if we are forced to only accept cruise line tours.    

 

After years of experience I too book most of my excursions independently.  But if that was the only way to do it, and if there was a menu to select from, I would definitely opt in if it meant getting on sea again.  

[Randyk47]

22 minutes ago, crusinbanjo said:

Thanks TLCohio for the update Mrs Banjo and I would be a NO if we are forced to only accept cruise line tours.  We have, and continue, to use the cruise ships tours when they appear to be interesting, but like brimary said, we have done most of the lines Tours in our first 20 years of cruising and now do most touring either privately or on our own, walking off the ship.   

Add us to “we won’t cruise” club if forced to only take cruise line tours and not allowed off the ship on our own.   Like many we have done a mixed bag of tours from ship sponsored to privately arranged to self guided.   Sometimes we just get off the ship and wander around the port city and not being able to do that is deal breaker.   Just seems to me if the virus is so much of a problem that we have to be continually tested, wear masks on and off the ship, physically distance ourselves from fellow cruisers, etc., that we probably ought not to be cruising in the first place.   

[worldtraveller99]

Randyk47 I agree! Or fly either, as that seems to bring the virus back too. At least in the USA you have different places to visit, which aren't full to the brim with crowds - which is all we have in England sadly.

[Randyk47]

33 minutes ago, worldtraveller99 said:

Randyk47 I agree! Or fly either, as that seems to bring the virus back too. At least in the USA you have different places to visit, which aren't full to the brim with crowds - which is all we have in England sadly.

Sorry to hear your options are so limited.   When I was at the now closed Upper Heyford Air Force Base we lived off the base in a small village and it was marvelous.  I will say while we indeed have a lot of places to visit it also depends a bit on where you live.   For instance my son lives in San Francisco in a high rise apartment building other than walking his and his girl friend’s dogs there isn’t much to do.  The popular places are closed, crowd limited, or too jam packed with people.   I think he said hasn’t been outside of a two mile radius of his apartment since March.  This is my international traveler son who would surprise me with calls from London, Barcelona, Rome, Dubai, or some other distant destination.   

[TLCOhio]

51 minutes ago, worldtraveller99 said:

Randyk47 I agree! Or fly either, as that seems to bring the virus back too. At least in the USA you have different places to visit, which aren't full to the brim with crowds - which is all we have in England sadly.

 

From Randy, worldtraveller99, chrism23 and cruisinbanjo, these are excellent comments and follow-ups.  YES, many challenges and limitations currently.  Personally, we would rather have smaller, private tours.  Ideally, just the two of us or maybe only four people and our guide.  Understand why during these early, start-up cruises that they are seeking to have more control as to where ship passengers go and what they are doing.  BUT, whether it is "worth it" with all of these limits and rules is another in a long list of serious questions as to how and when "normal" cruising and travel can resume.  

 

From the Wall Street Journal yesterday, they had this headline: “Sweden Shouldn’t Be America’s Pandemic Model” with these highlights in a column by a former FDA Commissioner who is heading up a scientific panel hired by two of the major cruise lines to help the process for gaining an OK by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention/CDC for cruising to resume.  

 

Here are some of his comments in this column: “It’s important to protect the old and the vulnerable, who are at the highest risk of severe illness and bad outcomes. But like most issues of medicine, it isn’t a binary choice. Given the uncertainties of how this virus spreads and its high risk of infirmities, it would be unwise to abandon efforts to limit Covid spread wherever possible. While age appears to be the strongest predictor of death and severe disease, other risks like diabetes and obesity correlate with bad outcomes. About 10% of Americans have diabetes, and 40% are considered obese.  There’s growing evidence that the virus can damage the heart and cause dangerous autoimmune and inflammatory conditions, including in children.  Covid spreads too easily to think it can be confined to the young. The summer epidemics in Sunbelt states initially affected mainly a younger cohort and then seeped into an older population.”

 

In my view, this column by this experienced expert makes clear that this "challenge" is a much, much higher "mountain to climb" than what some might realize and/or wish.  Much of this M.D.'s argument is against trying to do a Swedish model of "herd immunity".   Understand that point.  BUT, certain of his comments will be played back to him as the CDC consider if, when and how to lift their prohibition of cruise ships sailing in and from U.S. waters.  He concluded his column with these comments: "Confronting a dangerous pandemic requires containing spread wherever it is reasonably possible. Sensible measures such as universal masking, testing and widespread and rapid contact tracing can help. The best way to protect the vulnerable is to try to protect everyone."

 

To the cruise lines and medical/government expert, how do you "protect everyone" and still open up to allow and encourage crowded airline flights to get on cruise ships where many older and vulnerable passengers are mixed in somewhat tightly with a wide range of people from all over the world?  

 

It seems challenging to BOTH . . . "protect" . . . AND . . . allow this much close proximity of passengers, staff and people in the various ports and on the ships.  

 

Full story at:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/sweden-shouldnt-be-americas-pandemic-model-11598822005?mod=hp_opin_pos_3

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

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