SS Future Re-Open Plan: Timing, Testing Needs??!!

[TLCOhio]

Below are several news items that all might raise questions and/or concerns. Not trying to be too negative, just reflecting some of what is out there from yesterday's and this morning's news.  Not much of this reporting inspires confidence as to there being smooth sailing waters ahead during during the coming weeks and months.  

 

From MSN and Bloomberg news this morning, they had this headline: “Hong Kong Cruise Ship Owner Suspends Payments to Creditors” regarding the owner of Crystal Cruises with these highlights: “A cruise ship operator controlled by Malaysian tycoon Lim Kok Thay suspended all payments to creditors, triggering a 36% drop in the company’s shares and denting investor confidence in Lim’s wider business empire.  Genting Hong Kong Ltd. said it will use its available funds to maintain critical services for the company’s operations and asked creditors to form a steering committee to evaluate a planned restructuring proposal. The company owed a total of $3.4 billion as of July 31, it said. The firm blamed the cash crunch on the coronavirus pandemic and said the payment halt will likely result in default. 'For Genting, the financial stress may push the owner to sell the asset, or liquidate the entire firm,' said Banny Lam, the head of research at CEB International Investment Corp. Genting Hong Kong was formerly known as Star Cruises, and operates the Star Cruises, Dream Cruises and Crystal Cruises lines.”

 

From FOX News yesterday, they had this headline: “Hawaii governor delays program that would allow tourists to visit without quarantining” with these highlights: “After saying earlier this month that he believed it would be 'very difficult' to launch, Hawaii Gov. David Y. Ige confirmed this week that the state’s pre-travel testing program will be delayed — yet again — until at least Oct. 1.  The program, which would have allowed trans-Pacific visitors to bypass a mandatory 14-day quarantine by presenting the results of a negative COVID-19 screening, was originally slated to begin on Aug. 1, but was already delayed until at least Sept. 1.”

 

From USA Today and the AP newswire yesterday, they had this headline: “Carnival Corp. hacked: Cruise passenger and crew information at risk” with these highlights: “Carnival Corp. says it was the victim of a ransomware attack that likely got some personal information about the cruise giant's passengers and employees.  The attack was first detected Saturday. The attack accessed an encrypted portion of technology systems for one of the cruise line's brands and certain data files were downloaded, the company said in a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.”

 

Full stories at:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/hong-kong-cruise-ship-owner-suspends-payments-to-creditors/ar-BB18aqu9?li=BBnbfcN

https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/hawaii-governor-delays-program-tourists-without-quarantining

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/08/19/passenger-and-crew-information-risked-carnival-corp-hack/3400323001/

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

AFRICA?!!?: Fun, interesting visuals, plus travel details from this early 2016 live/blog. At 50,019 views. Featuring Cape Town, South Africa’s coast, Mozambique, Victoria Falls/Zambia and Botswana's famed Okavango Delta.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2310337

Edited August 20, 2020 by TLCOhio

[TLCOhio]

In the news, below are a couple of more clippings and news items that might be of interest.

 

From MSN and Bloomberg news today, they had this headline: “Asia’s Only Sailing Cruise Line Is Fully Booked — and in Trouble” with these highlights: “The Hong Kong-based cruise operator that spooked creditors this week by suspending all payments is still sailing a fully booked ship despite the crippling pandemic, in what may be one bright spot for the beleaguered firm seeking to revamp debt and raise fresh capital.  About a month ago, Genting Hong Kong Ltd. restarted two- and three-day excursions around Taiwan, exclusively for residents of the island that’s seen success in containing the coronavirus outbreak. Genting is the only liner to have resumed operations in Asia among members of the industry’s trade group, according to Cruise Lines International Association.  Genting’s Dream Cruises said about 900 passengers are booked on each of its trips in July and August, hitting the 50% maximum capacity allowed for social distancing.”     

 

As background, Genting Hong Kong owns and operates Crystal Cruises.  We have done one cruise with them.  Super enjoyed that experience in the Baltics, visiting Russia, etc.  They are ranked up with Regent, Silversea and Seabourn as among the four top-rated luxury lines.  My bottom line is that the supposedly super rich owner of Genting Hong Kong either cannot or will not put in more of his personal capital into these business.  He also cannot get more capital via the stock market or banks.  Based on those circumstances, sadly, it looks like Genting Hong Kong and Crystal are likely headed the wrong way on a dead-end street.  Hate to be so blunt, but when you run out of cash and people will not loan you more, that is getting into a serious "hole".     

 

From Bloomberg financial news this morning, they had this headline: “Norway to Limit Capacity on Cruise Ships After Covid Outbreaks” with these highlights: “Norway is banning cruise vessels that sail along coastlines, if they have more than 200 passengers.  The government said it’s enforcing the decision in response to the Covid-19 pandemic. Ships won’t be allowed to sail with more than 50% their full capacity, or a maximum of 200 people, according to a statement on Friday.   The rule is effective until Nov. 1, and follows an outbreak on a vessel operated by Hurtigruten.”

 

Full stories at:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/companies/asia-e2-80-99s-only-sailing-cruise-line-is-fully-booked-e2-80-94-and-in-trouble/ar-BB18dmSH

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-21/norway-to-limit-capacity-on-cruise-ships-after-covid-outbreaks

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Kotor/Montenegro:  Exciting visual samples, tips, details, etc., for this scenic, historic location. Over 47,808 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1439193

[TLCOhio]

Ports to visit?  Countries to explore?  For many of us who love to cruise, where we would be visiting is a top, high priority.  BUT, how soon will more and most countries be opened up for air travel and cruise ship dockings?  Below are a couple of articles today reflecting the many challenges and question that are looming ahead. 

 

From the Washington Post this afternoon, they had this headline: “Coronavirus infections are rising in Europe and vacationers may be partly to blame” with these highlights: “For a fleeting period this summer, Europe nearly resembled its old borderless self, with people zipping across the continent, unburdened by restrictions or mandatory quarantines .  But Europe’s travel free-for-all lasted just a matter of weeks.  With coronavirus cases rising after an early-summer ebb, governments across the continent are abruptly rethinking the wisdom of an open Europe, while reinstituting quarantines and other border controls.  The changes reflect a sense that travel — and the attempt to reboot the Mediterranean’s tourism economy — has undercut Europe’s fight to control the virus.  Vacation-popular Greece and Croatia, which largely missed Europe’s first wave, have seen cases surge in some of their most visited regions and are now dealing with their largest outbreaks to date.  As Europe’s travel season is reaching its peak, officials in country after country have started worrying about a second wave. Spain, in particular, has seen case numbers spike. France and Germany are now contending with their highest infection rates since April.”

 

From the CNN cable network today, they had this headline: “Europe's travel windows are slamming shut” with these highlights: “The vacation lights are going out all over Europe.
Just weeks after many countries opened their borders to travelers within the continent, some are closing again, often at such short notice that people are left scrambling to get home before quarantine orders are put in place.  Such confusion, often coupled with acrimony and threats of reprisals from countries who feel unfairly added to so-called 'red lists' of Covid-19 unsafe destinations, looks set to undermine efforts to salvage Europe's vital summer tourism economy well before the warm sunshine months have cooled into winter. The latest casualty is Croatia, which on Thursday was removed from the UK's safe list, meaning that anyone arriving in the UK from that country will be subject to a mandatory 14-day quarantine.  The move, a response to resurgence of Covid-19 cases now affecting many European countries, will potentially block tens of thousands of British tourists from enjoying the sparkling blue waters and pretty islands of the Dalmatian coast, and deprive Croatia of what is usually its sixth highest source of visitors.  Authorities have also warned of more uncertainty to come. Grant Shapps, the UK's transport minister, who was caught out by shifting quarantine rules while vacationing in Spain, on Thursday said all travel windows were subject to sudden closure.”

 

Full stories at:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/europe-travel-coronavirus/2020/08/20/a426b6e4-e23e-11ea-82d8-5e55d47e90ca_story.html

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/europe-travel-windows-closing/index.html

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Dubrovnik!  Nice visual samples, tips, details, etc., for this super scenic location. Over 47,444 views.    

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1439227

[brimary]

Thanks for the latest updates Terry.Further quarantine instructions today in the UK relating to Croatia ,Trinidad and Tobago and Austria with further additions expected in a number of European countries shortly.How do Cruise companies forward plan against this unprecedented background.More importantly how do they attract customers of the vulnerable age bracket which forms 75% of SS cruisers in order that the obvious desperate cash flow situation can be addressed? The alternative doesn’t bear thinking about! 2020/21 sadly look like being our first years of no cruising with SS since 1999.

[Randyk47]

3 hours ago, brimary said:

2020/21 sadly look like being our first years of no cruising with SS since 1999.

Luckily we squeezed in a Wind cruise this past January and more or less blissfully sailed with little news or knowledge of what was happening in China and just starting to happen in the US.    Needless to say no more cruises for us in 2020 and now 2021 is looking bleak enough we’re not even looking at any cruises right now.   We’ve been cruising since 1993 and while we have skipped a year here and there this is looking like the longest break in 27 years.   

[Lois R]

Hi Randy, I was lucky enough to sail back in January too.........seems like such a long, long time ago.

[AtMaui]

I have a b2b booked on the Whisper in November.  I hope I'm not making a mistake.  

[Randyk47]

12 minutes ago, Lois R said:

Hi Randy, I was lucky enough to sail back in January too.........seems like such a long, long time ago.

As I recall you were getting off the Wind as we were getting on.  I can’t say we were unaware of the virus back then but it was, with the exception of one or two cases in the US, mostly a Chinese issue.   Got off the Wind on 3 February without any problem or concerns.   It caught our attention but really was more of a passing observation at the time but there was a Chinese family of four on our cruise.  Appeared to be a husband and wife and two elderly women.  They were immediately ahead of us at Immigration and Customs.  When they presented their People’s Republic of China passports they were quickly gathered up and taken to a separate room.   The wife objected but the CBP agent firmly said it wasn’t up for discussion.   Again, it was one of those passing “wonder what that was all about” moments.   Little did we know that within five weeks we’d basically be confined to home.  What a year and now we have potentially two hurricanes or tropical storms  to deal with here in Texas.   

[Lois R]

1 hour ago, AtMaui said:

I have a b2b booked on the Whisper in November.  I hope I'm not making a mistake.  

 

This November? I know you are not asking for opinions but.........personally, I don't believe any cruising on SS will

be happening in November.

[Lois R]

51 minutes ago, Randyk47 said:

As I recall you were getting off the Wind as we were getting on.  I can’t say we were unaware of the virus back then but it was, with the exception of one or two cases in the US, mostly a Chinese issue.   Got off the Wind on 3 February without any problem or concerns.   It caught our attention but really was more of a passing observation at the time but there was a Chinese family of four on our cruise.  Appeared to be a husband and wife and two elderly women.  They were immediately ahead of us at Immigration and Customs.  When they presented their People’s Republic of China passports they were quickly gathered up and taken to a separate room.   The wife objected but the CBP agent firmly said it wasn’t up for discussion.   Again, it was one of those passing “wonder what that was all about” moments.   Little did we know that within five weeks we’d basically be confined to home.  What a year and now we have potentially two hurricanes or tropical storms  to deal with here in Texas.   

Hi, your thoughts are spot on.  I sailed from the 16th-23rd.......and I totally agree, we had NO CLUE about what was 

about to happen in those following weeks.☹️  And as for those 2 storms..........hoping you

will not be affected too much and will be safe!

[AtMaui]

When my TA talked to her SS rep on Wednesday, the Whisper was still scheduled to sail.  Maybe because of the WC in January?  If it's canceled, no big deal.  I'll go to plan B!

[chrism23]

This has been a highly informative and intelligent thread.  I thank all who have taken the time to research and share their findings.  Much mention has been made of antibody tests as a sign that a person who has been infected and may be immune.  I would like all to refer all to an article in today's 8/22 New York Times titled "Felt Sick in March Antibody Test Won't Tell Much"  a quote from the article reads "We don't know if a positive test  means you are protected"  Awhile ago there was talk of having an "immunity passport" when the thinking was that if once infected you had immunity.  That has proved not to be the case. especially with mild cases.  This rules out anti-body tests as being any sort of criteria for sailing   

 

Trying to gaze into the future is, for me, impossible.  I am not optimistic about a warp speed vaccine.  Dr. Fauci and others have said repeatedly that there may be more than one vaccine which  may work for one individual and not another.   The one area where I am optimistic is the creation of a saliva test that works like a pregnancy test, where you have nearly fool proof results in a matter of minutes.  Such a test can be administered to every passenger and crew member every time they embark the ship.  And that begs the question on how fast the virus can show up in the blood. This of course would be a logistical nightmare, with anyone testing positive denied boarding the ship and then quarantined in the port of the country where the ship is anchored.  I assume SS would then have to bear the costs and burden of the quarantine and getting the infected individual(s) back to their home country.   Then of course is the enormous "if" that is whether the port of call is willing to receive passengers.  Here I think travelers from the United States are at an extreme disadvantage seeing our inability to control spread and the virus spiking in most of the country.  

This system might work for SS (big ships never).  I would be willing to sail under such circumstances if these procedures were strictly enforced.  

I can't believe the brain power and effort that thousands of people are putting into figuring out how to do this, to cruise and travel  safely and securely.  I equate it with the Manhattan Project.  The damnable thing about this virus is it seemingly poses new problems every day.  

[Stumblefoot]

8 hours ago, AtMaui said:

I have a b2b booked on the Whisper in November.  I hope I'm not making a mistake.  

SS is anxious to get a few ships in the water to test their new protocols and show they are safe for passengers.  As such, the Whisper could be the first vessel to sail from US waters.  Of course, if she sails and you get on board, then you’ll just have to add hurricanes to your watch list.  😆 But, you know that better than most based on your long cruising history throughout the Caribbean.

[chrism23]

11 hours ago, Stumblefoot said:

SS is anxious to get a few ships in the water to test their new protocols and show they are safe for passengers.  As such, the Whisper could be the first vessel to sail from US waters.  Of course, if she sails and you get on board, then you’ll just have to add hurricanes to your watch list.  😆 But, you know that better than most based on your long cruising history throughout the Caribbean.

Speaking of hurricanes, all eyes this week should be on the gulf coast.  There, somewhere in Louisiana,  two hurricanes will make landfall within hours of each other, both at least Category Ones..  Right now New Orleans is in the center of the bullseye.  In listening to all the weather pundits on television this has never happened before in weather history.  Of course they are making a huge deal of this.  But nevertheless, no one knows, what will happen and how this will play out.  I admit to being sort of a weather junkie and this is something, hopefully, we will never see again.  If New Orleans is in the eye, Laura and Marco may finish the work of Katrina.  

[TLCOhio]

20 hours ago, chrism23 said:

This has been a highly informative and intelligent thread.  I thank all who have taken the time to research and share their findings. Trying to gaze into the future is, for me, impossible.  I am not optimistic about a warp speed vaccine. I can't believe the brain power and effort that thousands of people are putting into figuring out how to do this, to cruise and travel  safely and securely.  I equate it with the Manhattan Project.  The damnable thing about this virus is it seemingly poses new problems every day.  

 

Appreciate these above great comments and follow-ups.  That virus is "pesky".  It is not totally clear as to how well the vaccines being tested now will actually work and for how long to be effective.    Liked Stumblefoot's insightful comment of: "SS is anxious to get a few ships in the water to test their new protocols and show they are safe for passengers."

 

From Barron's, the business sister publication of the Wall Street Journal yesterday, they had this headline: “Currently Moored, High-End Cruise Ships Look to the Future” with these highlights: “With the cruise industry still on pause, ultra-luxury lines are using the time to outfit vessels with state-of-the-art technology to prevent the spread of Covid-19 on board.  Resuming operations is still months away for U.S.-based brands, but they are making plans to resume operations with stringent new cleaning protocols, hospital-grade air filtration and ultraviolet germicidal irradiation, and testing and medical protocols on board every vessel.  Still, no one is going anywhere right away. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA) sidelined ships after a number of international cruises suffered outbreaks of the virus on board, and ships that have tried to resume activity have reported additional cases. That has potential passengers looking to next fall and winter, although some smaller cruises may be able to sail later this year or in early 2021.”

 

In this article, there are a number of "puffy, positive" aspirational items cited.  Clearly much is uncertain and unclear.  Here is another story highlight: "Seaborn hopes to sail with passengers this winter, but no decisions have been made yet, CEO Leibowitz notes. Indeed, in July the CDC extended its No Sail Order, originally issued on March 14, to Sept. 30.   'The current scientific evidence suggests that cruise ships pose a greater risk of Covid-19 transmission than other settings because of the high population density onboard on ships,'  the health organization said in a statement. Many cruise lines are in the same boat, waiting for conditions to be just right before bringing guests back. But some ultra-luxury brands might be in a better position to sail than more traditional brands because they have smaller vessels. 'The [CDC] guidelines apply to ships with 250 or more people on board,' Betsy O'Rourke, the chief marketing officer for Windstar explains. 'Two of our small sailing ships are 148 guests and, with the crew, are under that number.' "   YES, agree, smaller ships do offer greater flexibility to possibly move forward in the future.  This article also cited plans for "additional medical personnel on board, expanded facilities with space for quarantine, and agreements with ports should there be an emergency on board."

 

Full story at:

https://www.barrons.com/articles/currently-moored-high-end-cruise-ships-look-to-the-future-01598097878

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Athens & Greece: Many visuals, details from two visits in a city with great history, culture and architecture.  Now at 36,167 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1101008

[kimanjo]

21 hours ago, chrism23 said:

This has been a highly informative and intelligent thread.  I thank all who have taken the time to research and share their findings.  Much mention has been made of antibody tests as a sign that a person who has been infected and may be immune.  I would like all to refer all to an article in today's 8/22 New York Times titled "Felt Sick in March Antibody Test Won't Tell Much"  a quote from the article reads "We don't know if a positive test  means you are protected"  Awhile ago there was talk of having an "immunity passport" when the thinking was that if once infected you had immunity.  That has proved not to be the case. especially with mild cases.  This rules out anti-body tests as being any sort of criteria for sailing   

 

Trying to gaze into the future is, for me, impossible.  I am not optimistic about a warp speed vaccine.  Dr. Fauci and others have said repeatedly that there may be more than one vaccine which  may work for one individual and not another.   The one area where I am optimistic is the creation of a saliva test that works like a pregnancy test, where you have nearly fool proof results in a matter of minutes.  Such a test can be administered to every passenger and crew member every time they embark the ship.  And that begs the question on how fast the virus can show up in the blood. This of course would be a logistical nightmare, with anyone testing positive denied boarding the ship and then quarantined in the port of the country where the ship is anchored.  I assume SS would then have to bear the costs and burden of the quarantine and getting the infected individual(s) back to their home country.   Then of course is the enormous "if" that is whether the port of call is willing to receive passengers.  Here I think travelers from the United States are at an extreme disadvantage seeing our inability to control spread and the virus spiking in most of the country.  

This system might work for SS (big ships never).  I would be willing to sail under such circumstances if these procedures were strictly enforced.  

I can't believe the brain power and effort that thousands of people are putting into figuring out how to do this, to cruise and travel  safely and securely.  I equate it with the Manhattan Project.  The damnable thing about this virus is it seemingly poses new problems every day.  

 

 

I see very few possibilities.  One. The 15 minute saliva test.  Everybody from home, to arrival, to overnight required hotel, to daily testing. Trying to catch presymptomatic cases, as soon as the 1st day of being infected and then isolating those pax in special cabins.  This is in theory what the colleges will be doing with 2X weekly testing. Then the positives put into quarantine dorms.  All staff being tested everyday as well.  Masks, and social distancing as well.  One problem, is if you are on a short cruise and you test positive on say day 5 of 7, what about the quarantining/isolating for 10-14 days?  On the ship? Just fly home? What about if you get seriously ill in a foreign country?  Many questions with that plan.

 

The next posibilitiy is IF/When a vaccine is available.  Wonder if the lines making it a requirement to sail is in discussions? The cruise line can assure the ports that their pax will not be bringing it onshore.  The cruise line can be assured that if a passenger goes ashore and comes in contact with an infected local, they will not be bringing it back to the ship.  ALL staff required to be vaccinated.   It might be their only way back.  Especially if the port countries see tourist dollars coming back this way,  countries might on their own require it for entry.  ( not a vax/anti-vax discission )  but a discussion on way forward for the cruise industry.

 

Possibility # 3, no vaccine, spreading and fatalities continue for years, and the cruise industry does not recover. The costs in fear, illness, treatment, isolation, quarantine, staff recruitment, both in the US and in foreign countries is huge.  

 

And I see Travel/Evacuation Insurance a requirement also a distinct possibility in the future.

 

Are there more "solutions"?

 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by kimanjo

[TLCOhio]

On 8/22/2020 at 10:11 AM, Lois R said:

Hi Randy, I was lucky enough to sail back in January too.........seems like such a long, long time ago.

 

YES, it seems like a long, long time since January 2020, when Randy and Lois had sailed.  For us, we got back home on March 7 after nearly a month doing New Zealand land exploring and sailing the South Pacific.  Fortunately, we arrived back just in time before nearly everything was shut down.  

 

Before we sailed from Auckland on Feb. 17, Oceania was very good in being ahead of the other cruise lines in saying several weeks in advance that those who had visited and/or been from China would not be allowed to board our ship.  Also, during our 18-day cruise, we followed closely as screening standards were tightened, more restrictions were imposed, the schedule was adjusted, etc.  During this wonderful cruise, the ship's General Manager shared with me his challenges in getting staff on and off of the ship as airport/flying rules were being changed.  Through the ship's Internet, I was following these issues as they evolving and became more significant  Glad we got our 2020 "ADVENTURE" accomplished before the shut-down started.   Need proof for that fun and excitement??  Below are just three visuals from our two-days in Bora Bora.  Yes, French Polynesia was as wonderful as we had expected.  Maybe even better??!!

 

For a little change of pace, MSN has this interesting column from the highly-experienced former USA Today travel writer this morning.  They have this headline: “You now can take a boat tour to see all the empty cruise ships” with these highlights: “Cruising fans don’t have many options these days for getting aboard a cruise ship. But now they at least can get up close to one — assuming they can get themselves to the U.K. A ferry company based near the cruise hub of Southampton, England, has started up 'ghost ship tours' to take tourists to see all the empty cruise vessels that have been anchored offshore during the cruising shutdown.  Christchurch, England-based Mudeford Ferry is offering the two-and-a-half-hour outings on days when the weather isn’t too windy.  Christchurch is about 24 miles from Southampton, which is one of Europe’s biggest cruise departure ports.”  

 

See the "fun" that those in the U.K. can be having right now?  

 

Full story at:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tips/you-now-can-take-a-boat-tour-to-see-all-the-empty-cruise-ships/ar-BB18hjoT

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Lisbon, NWSpain, Bordeaux/Brittany: Live/blog, June 2017 from Portugal to France along scenic Atlantic Coast on the Silver Spirit.  Now at 31,019 views.  Many interesting pictures, details for history, food, culture, etc.:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2511358

 

To refresh all of us for how wonderful cruising can be, here are just a few highlights from only part of one day in March 2020 while exploring Bora Bora.  In the third picture, my wife is on the right with our guide, Patrick of Maohe Nui.  He got us with stingrays, did a fire dance performance, played his musical instrument as we sailed and served up a Polynesian Feast on a private island (motu). Super fun!!  Nice memories!!  We need to dream of that excitement returning for the future!!:

(Open your screen/viewer wider to see these visuals larger/better!)

 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by TLCOhio

[TLCOhio]

44 minutes ago, kimanjo said:

I see very few possibilities.  And I see Travel/Evacuation Insurance a requirement also a distinct possibility in the future.   Are there more "solutions"?

 

Excellent summary of various options and potentials above from our South Florida CC Board friend.  Glad that you mentioned the issue/question as to travel insurance.  

 

That's a very important area where you had better check (and double-check) what your insurance policy covers (and not??).  The fine-print becomes very vital as certain "technical/legal" details within the policy could knock out assumed or promised on the phone protections you had hoped would be covered.  Trust, BUT VERIFY, what actual coverage you will have.  Could you find out too late that a "pandemic" is an excluded "pre-existing condition"??

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Panama Canal? Early 2017, Fort Lauderdale to San Francisco adventure through Panama Canal.  Our first stops in Colombia, Central America and Mexico, plus added time in the great Golden Gate City. Now at 30,049 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2465580

[kimanjo]

2 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

 

Excellent summary of various options and potentials above from our South Florida CC Board friend.  Glad that you mentioned the issue/question as to travel insurance.  

 

That's a very important area where you had better check (and double-check) what your insurance policy covers (and not??).  The fine-print becomes very vital as certain "technical/legal" details within the policy could knock out assumed or promised on the phone protections you had hoped would be covered.  Trust, BUT VERIFY, what actual coverage you will have.  Could you find out too late that a "pandemic" is an excluded "pre-existing condition"??

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Panama Canal? Early 2017, Fort Lauderdale to San Francisco adventure through Panama Canal.  Our first stops in Colombia, Central America and Mexico, plus added time in the great Golden Gate City. Now at 30,049 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2465580

 

I agree!  I also see the potential for travel insurance to change and  cruise cancellation policies evolving as well. It depends what/when happens with infections, deaths, vaccine(s) around the world.

 

 Somethings gotta give.  A family won't fly to the Med for a 10 night cruise with Grammy and Grammy, only to find out Grammy gets infected and has to be hospitalized in Europe.   So maybe Mom & Dad and just the kids. But spending all that $$ with great uncertainty as to refunds and insurance.  How many of those can self-insure?  Families make up a large part of cruising.  And world cruises.  Generally a much older population who has time and money. But a very at-risk population. 

 

And are 75 year olds really comfortable with the sailing a world with no handle on the infection potential and risks?  They have the time and the $, but not necessarily the health.

 

The 35 year olds, have the $$, and the health, but not the time.

 

Yes, there are lots of people in between, but very few people have all 3-- Health, time and money to have total confidence to get on ships.  And the ports around the world. Do they want the responsibility of infected people coming ashore if they manage to get a handle on their infections? Just because Americans want to cruise, doesnt mean other countries want Americans.  My 2 cents.

 

Just throwing some thoughts out there.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by kimanjo

[AtMaui]

20 hours ago, Stumblefoot said:

SS is anxious to get a few ships in the water to test their new protocols and show they are safe for passengers.  As such, the Whisper could be the first vessel to sail from US waters.  Of course, if she sails and you get on board, then you’ll just have to add hurricanes to your watch list.  😆 But, you know that better than most based on your long cruising history throughout the Caribbean.

Thanks, Stumble.  Yes I have spent numerous Thanksgivings cruising around the Caribbean, including last year and hopefully this year.  With the Whisper holding a max of 388 and as of last Wednesday having quite a few empty suites, I have fingers, toes and eyes crossed that it's a go.

[Observer]

I have been following this long thread and may have missed something.  (Indeed, lots of things.)

 

I assume that many others on the board are old enough, like me, to recall having to carry proof of smallpox vaccination.  I always kept the yellow card with my passport and carried this WHO certificate whenever I traveled abroad.

 

The attached image, taken from the web, was dated 1965. 

 

I anticipate that all guests (and crew) on cruise ships would be required to carry such proof of approved COVID-19 vaccination before boarding a ship.  Destination ports could be reassured that all visitors were thus vaccinated.

 

First, of course, we need a vaccine.  Then we need an effective distribution system.  Then, using some recognized certificate like the one widely used for smallpox, cruising could flourish.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Observer

[clo]

1 hour ago, kimanjo said:

And are 75 year olds really comfortable with the sailing a world with no handle on the infection potential and risks?  They have the time and the $, but not necessarily the health.

 

Don't forget the common sense factor.

[Silver Spectre]

4 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

 

YES, it seems like a long, long time since January 2020, when Randy and Lois had sailed.  For us, we got back home on March 7 after nearly a month doing New Zealand land exploring and sailing the South Pacific.  Fortunately, we arrived back just in time before nearly everything was shut down.  

 

Before we sailed from Auckland on Feb. 17, Oceania was very good in being ahead of the other cruise lines in saying several weeks in advance that those who had visited and/or been from China would not be allowed to board our ship.  Also, during our 18-day cruise, we followed closely as screening standards were tightened, more restrictions were imposed, the schedule was adjusted, etc.  During this wonderful cruise, the ship's General Manager shared with me his challenges in getting staff on and off of the ship as airport/flying rules were being changed.  Through the ship's Internet, I was following these issues as they evolving and became more significant  Glad we got our 2020 "ADVENTURE" accomplished before the shut-down started.   Need proof for that fun and excitement??  Below are just three visuals from our two-days in Bora Bora.  Yes, French Polynesia was as wonderful as we had expected.  Maybe even better??!!

 

For a little change of pace, MSN has this interesting column from the highly-experienced former USA Today travel writer this morning.  They have this headline: “You now can take a boat tour to see all the empty cruise ships” with these highlights: “Cruising fans don’t have many options these days for getting aboard a cruise ship. But now they at least can get up close to one — assuming they can get themselves to the U.K. A ferry company based near the cruise hub of Southampton, England, has started up 'ghost ship tours' to take tourists to see all the empty cruise vessels that have been anchored offshore during the cruising shutdown.  Christchurch, England-based Mudeford Ferry is offering the two-and-a-half-hour outings on days when the weather isn’t too windy.  Christchurch is about 24 miles from Southampton, which is one of Europe’s biggest cruise departure ports.”  

 

See the "fun" that those in the U.K. can be having right now?  

 

Full story at:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tips/you-now-can-take-a-boat-tour-to-see-all-the-empty-cruise-ships/ar-BB18hjoT

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Lisbon, NWSpain, Bordeaux/Brittany: Live/blog, June 2017 from Portugal to France along scenic Atlantic Coast on the Silver Spirit.  Now at 31,019 views.  Many interesting pictures, details for history, food, culture, etc.:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2511358

 

To refresh all of us for how wonderful cruising can be, here are just a few highlights from only part of one day in March 2020 while exploring Bora Bora.  In the third picture, my wife is on the right with our guide, Patrick of Maohe Nui.  He got us with stingrays, did a fire dance performance, played his musical instrument as we sailed and served up a Polynesian Feast on a private island (motu). Super fun!!  Nice memories!!  We need to dream of that excitement returning for the future!!:

(Open your screen/viewer wider to see these visuals larger/better!)

 

 

We can see you Terry.

[Stumblefoot]

2 hours ago, AtMaui said:

With the Whisper holding a max of 388 and as of last Wednesday having quite a few empty suites, I have fingers, toes and eyes crossed that it's a go.

Amen, AtMaui!  I hope you get to go too, because I know you’ll have a great time while giving hope to us all.  We’ll cross our fingers for you too!

[chrism23]

12 hours ago, Observer said:

I have been following this long thread and may have missed something.  (Indeed, lots of things.)

 

I assume that many others on the board are old enough, like me, to recall having to carry proof of smallpox vaccination.  I always kept the yellow card with my passport and carried this WHO certificate whenever I traveled abroad.

 

The attached image, taken from the web, was dated 1965. 

 

I anticipate that all guests (and crew) on cruise ships would be required to carry such proof of approved COVID-19 vaccination before boarding a ship.  Destination ports could be reassured that all visitors were thus vaccinated.

 

First, of course, we need a vaccine.  Then we need an effective distribution system.  Then, using some recognized certificate like the one widely used for smallpox, cruising could flourish.

 

 

Hi.  The problem here, with such a certificate, is that as of the moment no one knows how if and how long, immunity lasts, and it will be the same with a vaccine.  Even if a vaccine is developed there would have to lengthy follow up-is it good for 6 months, one year, five years, or forever.  As I said in a previous post, months ago there was thought given to the creation of an "immunity passport" when it was thought that having contacted the disease it would create immunity and the person would be safe.  It has since been proven, in a quote I posted yesterday citing a NYTimes article, and there are other sources, that no one really knows whether having the disease creates immunity and its duration.  I have really been thinking about the lengthy and well thought out comments Terry and Kimanjo posted earlier on this topic and later I want to return to discussing Kimanjo's third scenario in which no universal effective vaccine is developed and its implications.  It's not really something I want to think about. This is so damn complicated  

Edited August 24, 2020 by chrism23
clarity