Carnival to Dump Six Ships

[showingdiva]

2 hours ago, panamapd said:

See the AIDA board for more info.  She was not as "German" as many people perceive it to be.

 

I agree with this.   German is, of course, the predominant language, but having done several on board port hospitality days on a variety of AIDA ships, her target market seems to be families, however I have had some lovely conversations (in both German and English) with all ages.   The vast majority of the crew converse happily in English as well as German.   Have experienced a happy, welcoming atmosphere on all the ships I have worked on.

 

Of absolutely no relevance to anything on this thread, the potato salad on AIDA ships is amazing.   Just saying!

[molecrochip]

1 hour ago, ann141 said:

It would be nice to think that those of us booked in inside cabins would have free upgrades!! but I think thats as unlikely as some of the other comments  in the video

I'm not so sure. I do wonder if thats why there is such high prices next year. Number of available cabins = total balcony cabins - less number booked - less number of inside/ocean view booked. Essentially anyone that books an inside removes a balcony cabin from sale.

 

Now, this only works until the point you announce this as a policy. At that point you upgrade everyone for free but then have to stop selling inside/ocean view. This comes back to economics of cruising....

 

Broadly, it is said that a modern cruise ship can breakeven based on 60% of cabins being full, once you factor in onboard spend etc. This assumes a 60% occupancy across all cabin types.  In the Covid scenario, you cut the 40% cheapest cabins going forward and that 60% is then the more expensive cabins. That actually could make a ship more profitable. The other option is that going forward you reduce the entry level balcony cabin price to still retain those who choose inside cabins on cost.

 

The other thing to consider is that if ships really are booked up as high as P&O indicate then there will be very few bargains next year and future OBS will not need to be thrown at customers to book. You move towards a more traditional package holiday pricing model.

 

The same thing was said about cheap air travel and an article on Head for Points from April 23 explains why. Similar principles apply to the cruise industry.

[molecrochip]

Just now, molecrochip said:

I'm not so sure. I do wonder if thats why there is such high prices next year. Number of available cabins = total balcony cabins - less number booked - less number of inside/ocean view booked. Essentially anyone that books an inside removes a balcony cabin from sale.

 

Now, this only works until the point you announce this as a policy. At that point you upgrade everyone for free but then have to stop selling inside/ocean view. This comes back to economics of cruising....

 

Broadly, it is said that a modern cruise ship can breakeven based on 60% of cabins being full, once you factor in onboard spend etc. This assumes a 60% occupancy across all cabin types.  In the Covid scenario, you cut the 40% cheapest cabins going forward and that 60% is then the more expensive cabins. That actually could make a ship more profitable. The other option is that going forward you reduce the entry level balcony cabin price to still retain those who choose inside cabins on cost.

 

The other thing to consider is that if ships really are booked up as high as P&O indicate then there will be very few bargains next year and future OBS will not need to be thrown at customers to book. You move towards a more traditional package holiday pricing model.

 

The same thing was said about cheap air travel and an article on Head for Points from April 23 explains why. Similar principles apply to the cruise industry.

https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/04/23/why-cheap-air-travel-is-not-going-away/

[besberry]

7 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Yes, but its the reason that Oceana's fly cruise season were based around scheduled airlines. At one point, Emirates were flying 8 A380s a day into Heathrow. P&O bulk buy seats on scheduled airlines for those 2 days out of 10 in advance of the general on-sale date. If you've ever tried to book a holiday to the middle east, getting flights on a cruise day is a nightmare as the availability is gone. Travel companies build their packages around the other dates. You also have a fair bit of connecting traffic in the middle east who flex their schedules based on price and availability. 

 

But with the overnight in Dubai, 7 nights are more likely.

I was on the cruise from Southampton to Dubai in January 2018.  We flew back to Heathrow on an Emirates A380 and it wasn't very full at all.  In our cabin, it was about 30% full. 

[davecttr]

I have an inside booked on Iona for next January. If it is not cancelled I wonder if they will offer upgrades to balcony because at the moment balconies are the only category I will consider. I don't expect them to announce anything until after the final payment is due in October, in which case I will be forfeiting my £80 deposit. They could also 'dump' solo cruisers occupying double cabins because of the lower onboard spend.

 

[kalos]

5 minutes ago, wasdavecttr said:

I have an inside booked on Iona for next January.

 

 

Have you reinvented yourself Dave ? (davecttr)  

[drsel]

I have an inside booked on Iona for next January. If it is not cancelled I wonder if they will offer upgrades to balcony because at the moment balconies are the only category I will consider. I don't expect them to announce anything until after the final payment is due in October, in which case I will be forfeiting my £80 deposit. They could also 'dump' solo cruisers occupying double cabins because of the lower onboard spend.
 

I don't think they will offer free upgrades to balcony, nor will they dump solo Cruises

[davecttr]

5 minutes ago, kalos said:

 

Have you reinvented yourself Dave ? (davecttr)  

Only temporary I hope!. I upgraded my browser and various other stuff and now have to log on for various sites including CC. It would not accept my login attempt and several attempts to reset password resulted in the promised CC emails disappearing into the great unknown, so I just created a new account. must try asking for help

[ann141]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/04/23/why-cheap-air-travel-is-not-going-away/

Interesting read.Thank you

[No pager thank you]

2 hours ago, molecrochip said:

I'm not so sure. I do wonder if thats why there is such high prices next year. Number of available cabins = total balcony cabins - less number booked - less number of inside/ocean view booked. Essentially anyone that books an inside removes a balcony cabin from sale.

 

Now, this only works until the point you announce this as a policy. At that point you upgrade everyone for free but then have to stop selling inside/ocean view. This comes back to economics of cruising....

 

Broadly, it is said that a modern cruise ship can breakeven based on 60% of cabins being full, once you factor in onboard spend etc. This assumes a 60% occupancy across all cabin types.  In the Covid scenario, you cut the 40% cheapest cabins going forward and that 60% is then the more expensive cabins. That actually could make a ship more profitable. The other option is that going forward you reduce the entry level balcony cabin price to still retain those who choose inside cabins on cost.

The controversial way to apply this rationale is something that has worried me for some time:

 

-- There is a working assumption that passenger numbers will need to reduce.  I agree that this would likely explain, at least in part the strong pricing levels.

-- It is not necessarily the case that passenger bookings for an inside/ocean view are taking a balcony off sale.

-- Passengers booked for inside/ocean view cabins could, at some stage, be presented with a choice to upgrade in to a limited number of remaining balconies, at a high rate, or have their booking cancelled at short notice; without compensation save for a refund of the cost paid.

 

This strategy, provided it were set against a high balcony fill rate, would significantly increase the net yield from a smaller number of travelling passengers.  As you say, increasing yield per passenger will be necessary to protect commercial viability on a lower than average fill rate.

[Selbourne]

Surely it’s a naive hope to expect P&O to upgrade all those booking inside cabins to balconies? It would make far more business sense for P&O to sell as many cabins as they can of all grades and then, depending on any restrictions that may be in place nearer the time that might necessitate reduced passenger numbers, simply cancel the bookings of those who booked the cheapest cabins I.e. insides?

[No pager thank you]

3 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Surely it’s a naive hope to expect P&O to upgrade all those booking inside cabins to balconies? It would make far more business sense for P&O to sell as many cabins as they can of all grades and then, depending on any restrictions that may be in place nearer the time that might necessitate reduced passenger numbers, simply cancel the bookings of those who booked the cheapest cabins I.e. insides?

Exactly!

 

In fairness though, if you had a few balconies free, you could offer them out at an exorbitant rate if you wanted to and you probably would do so, to avoid 125% FCCs.

 

If too many say yes, cancel some of the bookings made by those in the balconies to begin with i.e. cheaper rates on pre-registration.

[majortom10]

6 hours ago, ann141 said:

It would be nice to think that those of us booked in inside cabins would have free upgrades!! but I think thats as unlikely as some of the other comments  in the video

Hope not just paid to upgrade my inside cabin to a balcony for my cruise on Britannia next May.

[No pager thank you]

4 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Hope not just paid to upgrade my inside cabin to a balcony for my cruise on Britannia next May.

There will be protests no matter what P&O do. 

 

However, if this does prove to be true, will rub salt in to wound, particularly if it transpires that the capacity management protocols have actually been in place for some time.

 

Those suggesting that their extra 25% was used to upgrade to a balcony, will also not be amused.

Edited July 9, 2020 by No pager thank you

[joeecco]

7 hours ago, molecrochip said:

I'm not so sure. I do wonder if thats why there is such high prices next year. Number of available cabins = total balcony cabins - less number booked - less number of inside/ocean view booked. Essentially anyone that books an inside removes a balcony cabin from sale.

 

Now, this only works until the point you announce this as a policy. At that point you upgrade everyone for free but then have to stop selling inside/ocean view. This comes back to economics of cruising....

 

Broadly, it is said that a modern cruise ship can breakeven based on 60% of cabins being full, once you factor in onboard spend etc. This assumes a 60% occupancy across all cabin types.  In the Covid scenario, you cut the 40% cheapest cabins going forward and that 60% is then the more expensive cabins. That actually could make a ship more profitable. The other option is that going forward you reduce the entry level balcony cabin price to still retain those who choose inside cabins on cost.

 

The other thing to consider is that if ships really are booked up as high as P&O indicate then there will be very few bargains next year and future OBS will not need to be thrown at customers to book. You move towards a more traditional package holiday pricing model.

 

The same thing was said about cheap air travel and an article on Head for Points from April 23 explains why. Similar principles apply to the cruise industry.

We are booked on 5 night Ventura NYE sailing - do you know anything about whether this will go ahead? We are considering switching to Fjords on Iona if it’s going to be an awkward stay apart atmosphere for NYE.. 

[wowzz]

10 minutes ago, joeecco said:

We are booked on 5 night Ventura NYE sailing - do you know anything about whether this will go ahead? We are considering switching to Fjords on Iona if it’s going to be an awkward stay apart atmosphere for NYE.. 

To be honest,  no one on here knows.

6 months ago no one would have thought that the world would be in the state it is now.

What exactly do you mean by "awkward " ? If you mean will you have to stay apart from other passengers- yes of course you will, exactly the same as if you were in a pub in the UK. Having said that, trying to enforce it is another matter. 

[joeecco]

6 minutes ago, wowzz said:

To be honest,  no one on here knows.

6 months ago no one would have thought that the world would be in the state it is now.

What exactly do you mean by "awkward " ? If you mean will you have to stay apart from other passengers- yes of course you will, exactly the same as if you were in a pub in the UK. Having said that, trying to enforce it is another matter. 

I was just seeing if the was anymore inside info from his end 👍 

 

Difference between a pub and a ship is i can book a place in the bar - if they’re limiting capacity in bars there is no saying they’ll limit the overall capacity of the ship to match that. We booked an NYE cruise to have a nice atmosphere, physical distance isn’t a problem, but if there’s no room left in havanas and we’re stuck in the atrium then that doesn’t sound like a good NYE. 

[AndyMichelle]

7 hours ago, joeecco said:

I was just seeing if the was anymore inside info from his end 👍 

 

Difference between a pub and a ship is i can book a place in the bar - if they’re limiting capacity in bars there is no saying they’ll limit the overall capacity of the ship to match that. We booked an NYE cruise to have a nice atmosphere, physical distance isn’t a problem, but if there’s no room left in havanas and we’re stuck in the atrium then that doesn’t sound like a good NYE. 

If last New Year on Ventura is anything to go by, you will have absolutely no chance of social distancing.. 

I have never seen a ship so packed in every area, all day, every day with queues for absolutely everything. 

Hopefully for you, plenty will still stay away. 

Andy 

[funinhounslow]

20 hours ago, Britboys said:

On a different take, I have seen speculation on another forum that Oceana has been sold to the owner of Seajets, who operate a large ferry company in Greece - presumably to diversify into cruises. No idea how accurate that speculation is.

If we’re going to speculate (what fun!) maybe Stelios has bought it, will slap a bit of orange paint on and rechristen it EasyCruise III !

 

Went on a few EasyCruises back in the day - cheap and cheerful and my introduction to cruising. They remain my most enjoyable holidays ever...

[No pager thank you]

5 minutes ago, funinhounslow said:

If we’re going to speculate (what fun!) maybe Stelios has bought it, will slap a bit of orange paint on and rechristen it EasyCruise III !

 

Went on a few EasyCruises back in the day - cheap and cheerful and my introduction to cruising. They remain my most enjoyable holidays ever...

That had made me contemplate Cafe Jardin being remade with Orange and White tiles - urgh 🤣🤣

[joeecco]

Should we be concerned that Azura seems to be having a lot of time berthed at Southampton when the rest of the fleet is at anchor elsewhere? Does anyone know the particular reason for this .. I’m hoping it’s just in preparation of rescheduling the refit 

[Britboys]

2 hours ago, funinhounslow said:

If we’re going to speculate (what fun!) maybe Stelios has bought it, will slap a bit of orange paint on and rechristen it EasyCruise III !

 

Went on a few EasyCruises back in the day - cheap and cheerful and my introduction to cruising. They remain my most enjoyable holidays ever...

Noooooo - that's a worse indignity than being scrapped....😄

[davecttr]

19 hours ago, davecttr said:

Only temporary I hope!. I upgraded my browser and various other stuff and now have to log on for various sites including CC. It would not accept my login attempt and several attempts to reset password resulted in the promised CC emails disappearing into the great unknown, so I just created a new account. must try asking for help

I am back, be very very afraid 😈 or not at all.

 

thanks to Jennifer at CC for sorting it out 😃

[DamianG]

7 minutes ago, davecttr said:

I am back, be very very afraid 😈 or not at all.

 

thanks to Jennifer at CC for sorting it out 😃

 

Welcome back. Shame wasdavecttr has gone though, great name! 😁

[molecrochip]

Breaking: Carnival to dump thirteen ships.... more to follow.