Carnival to Dump Six Ships

[molecrochip]

7 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Given the number of pax involved, would the flight logistics allow for 10 day cruises in the ME? Transferring 5000 people every 10 days, even spread over 2 days, is going to tie up a lot of aircraft. 

Yes, but its the reason that Oceana's fly cruise season were based around scheduled airlines. At one point, Emirates were flying 8 A380s a day into Heathrow. P&O bulk buy seats on scheduled airlines for those 2 days out of 10 in advance of the general on-sale date. If you've ever tried to book a holiday to the middle east, getting flights on a cruise day is a nightmare as the availability is gone. Travel companies build their packages around the other dates. You also have a fair bit of connecting traffic in the middle east who flex their schedules based on price and availability. 

 

But with the overnight in Dubai, 7 nights are more likely.

Edited July 9, 2020 by molecrochip

[Manx buoy]

14 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Literally, in the last three minutes, its been confirmed that Oceana is sailing at 1800 to Piraeus, Greece.

 

Bow art and branding appears to still be in place. Her sale was that short notice.

Do you not find it strange the speed of the transaction to whoever has bought her? When Adonia and Oriana went they both had ‘emergency repairs’ in dry dock aka as a survey a few months before they were sold yet this hasn’t happened with Oceana kind of makes me think she is going for scrapping 

[wowzz]

5 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Yes, but its the reason that Oceana's fly cruise season were based around scheduled airlines. At one point, Emirates were flying 8 A380s a day into Heathrow. P&O bulk buy seats on scheduled airlines for those 2 days out of 10 in advance of the general on-sale date. If you've ever tried to book a holiday to the middle east, getting flights on a cruise day is a nightmare as the availability is gone. Travel companies build their packages around the other dates. You also have a fair bit of connecting traffic in the middle east who flex their schedules based on price and availability. 

 

But with the overnight in Dubai, 7 nights are more likely.

Thanks for that - must admit I didn't realise P&O used scheduled flights for the ME. 

Given that P&O will require twice as many seats as before, I wonder if in the future there will be sufficient spare capacity, especially as the A380s  disappear.

[molecrochip]

3 minutes ago, Manx buoy said:

Do you not find it strange the speed of the transaction to whoever has bought her? When Adonia and Oriana went they both had ‘emergency repairs’ in dry dock aka as a survey a few months before they were sold yet this hasn’t happened with Oceana kind of makes me think she is going for scrapping 

I'm positive that P&O would have de-branded her if she was going to be broken up.

 

I though that this ship was Costa Mediterranea but may be, Oceana had already been sold and renegotiation just had to happen regarding transfer date. From the 2018 accounts "In November 2018, we entered into an agreement to sell an EA segment 2,110-passenger capacity ship. The ship will be transferred to the buyer at a date still to be determined." The 2019 accounts did not state this ship as having been transferred.

 

As a comparison, 2018 accounts said "In June 2018, we sold an EA segment 1,880-passenger capacity ship. The ship will be transferred to the buyer in August 2019." and the 2019 accounts said "In August 2019, we transferred an EA segment 1,880-passenger capacity ship." This was Oriana.

 

Obviously, a deal could also have been struck between December 2019 and Covid which just happened to turn out advantageous. The other option is that Carnival have given warranties on the state of the ship and will indemnify the new owner for any repair work needed on initial dry-dock inspection.

[drsel]

You need to look for Costa Diadema or AidaPrima. The US market doesn't travel to the middle east. They would rather go to Australia or Asia if flying for that long hence only European brands operating.

In AIDAPrima, I am getting 975 euros per person for 7 nights. Oceana for the same date was 425 dollars per person for 7 nights, including all fees and taxes and gratuities.

Why is AIDA so much more, more than double ?

 

[molecrochip]

Just now, drsel said:

In AIDAPrima, I am getting 975 euros per person for 7 nights. Oceana for the same date was 425 dollars per person for 7 nights, including all fees and taxes and gratuities.

Why is AIDA so much more, more than double ?

 

I said that there was an option, not that it was financially viable. If capacity restrictions are being put into place then this will have the same effect on pricing as the cabins having already been sold hence the last few cabins available will always be the most expensive under the supply and demand model.

[Manx buoy]

13 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

I'm positive that P&O would have de-branded her if she was going to be broken up.

 

I though that this ship was Costa Mediterranea but may be, Oceana had already been sold and renegotiation just had to happen regarding transfer date. From the 2018 accounts "In November 2018, we entered into an agreement to sell an EA segment 2,110-passenger capacity ship. The ship will be transferred to the buyer at a date still to be determined." The 2019 accounts did not state this ship as having been transferred.

 

As a comparison, 2018 accounts said "In June 2018, we sold an EA segment 1,880-passenger capacity ship. The ship will be transferred to the buyer in August 2019." and the 2019 accounts said "In August 2019, we transferred an EA segment 1,880-passenger capacity ship." This was Oriana.

 

Obviously, a deal could also have been struck between December 2019 and Covid which just happened to turn out advantageous. The other option is that Carnival have given warranties on the state of the ship and will indemnify the new owner for any repair work needed on initial dry-dock inspection.

Must’ve been a good deal whichever way it goes but quite risky if they find something major wrong with her

[drsel]

Please note that in AIDA, the main onboard language is German, and that there is no special program for English speaking guests.
It's a deal breaker for me

[Jack McGowan]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

Thanks Jack.

 

General feeling was that Gala2 would spend her Maiden summer season across Spain & Portugal's Atlantic Coast & the Canaries from Southampton and then spend Winter in the Middle East! Thats exactly what Oceana was due to be doing from April 2021 to April 2022 and I always say Gala2 as a direct replacement. In 2023, I had heard talk of a weekly summer fly-cruise season alternating from Tenerife with one week Canaries, second week Atlantic coast. This again focused on getting families to the heat quicker and avoiding 4 days of dubious weather on a 14 night itinerary.

 

LPG ports are still going to be slow coming on tap. Rotterdam, Southampton, Tenerife, Barcelona, Dubai, Miami and Port Canaveral all spring to mind as open/due this year at the latest. There are bunkering options in the Caribbean but not that sustain a homeport scenario for 6 months. A number of Caribbean of ports have plans but you're probably looking at 5 years start-finish.

 

If I'm honest, the intention appears to have always been for the Med fly cruises to use Ventura or Azura. It only fell to Oceana so that P&O could still visit Venice. I actually wonder whether this gave Oceana a stay of execution for the last couple of years.

Interesting, thanks for this. I’ve wondered for a couple of years if Azura might move to more permanent fly cruises due to being designed for warmer weather. Ventura/Iona are definitely more suited to being based out of the Uk year round and presumably it will stay this way for a while?

 

I wonder if Gala 2 may not have a sky dome and will be catered towards hotter climates, much like Ventura and Azura?

[Son of Anarchy]

15 hours ago, molecrochip said:

The ship was sent to the Tyne for lay-up. This has all moved very quickly unlike Oriana who was sold and leased back to P&O.

 

The ships are sold with most of the furnishings in place. A bit like a house there will be a long list attached to the contract. This will include beds, life jackets, mini-bars, spare carpet, tv etc.

 

What needs to come off, is any stock, shop stock and fittings on loan, branded products, computers/IT involved in hotel services. If this is to be retained then it would have come off in Southampton. It was notable there were reports of theatre equipment being offloaded. The fleet's theatres have just been upgraded over the past three years. I believe that all of the shop stock, jewelry and art which was previously on sale was offloaded at the start of the lay-ups.

 

Obviously items like crockery and cutlery is branded but this probably makes its way to the bin unless its new. Anything to be scrapped is likely to come off in Greece as cheaper to dispose off.

 

They will have had a list when Oriana went so shouldn't be hard to make a new one. No doubt over the next few days, every cabin, room and area will be inspected to check everything that should be off is. 

 

Will I have to collect my prom deck bench from Southampton or Piraeus? 😀

 

Thank you for the updates.  Seeming more possible that our November Iona could be her maiden

[molecrochip]

8 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

 

Will I have to collect my prom deck bench from Southampton or Piraeus? 😀

 

Thank you for the updates.  Seeming more possible that our November Iona could be her maiden

If not your November cruise then maybe my December cruise! P&O will want to make sure that a 2020 launch doesnt slip to 2021. 

 

It's a bit different for Princess as they have new ships most years. Not the case for P&O.

[Son of Anarchy]

4 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

If not your November cruise then maybe my December cruise! P&O will want to make sure that a 2020 launch doesnt slip to 2021. 

 

It's a bit different for Princess as they have new ships most years. Not the case for P&O.

May be on board that one as well!  We're B2B the last November cruise with the Hamburg etc pre-Christmas one.

[drsel]

Bruce on YouTube says that Oceana is being scrapped, because it will be financially unviable to operate

https://www.youtube.com/embed/wfEac8Ol_Kw?feature=oembed 

[Britboys]

19 hours ago, DamianG said:

 

Nigel Travis, we sailed with him a few times. It's going back a bit but I used to see him in the gym every time I went but never around the ship. Being kind, maybe he was a great delegator or superb at empowering the rest of the team?

Widely referred to as 'Mr Invisible'...

[Britboys]

20 minutes ago, drsel said:

Bruce on YouTube says that Oceana is being scrapped, because it will be financially unviable to operate

https://www.youtube.com/embed/wfEac8Ol_Kw?feature=oembed 

Hmmmmm. Just had a look at his video. He has no idea how to pronounce her name and apparently yesterday stated that she doesn't have any balcony cabins. His assertion on her being scrapped is that for the foreseeable future, cruise lines will not be able to sell any inside cabins and only a very restricted number of outside cabins without a balcony. He says that he feels most ships with less than 70% of cabins being balcony ones will be scrapped! He also states that she is being replaced by Iona when she comes out of the shipyard in the New Year. It will be interesting to see how many of his predictions are proved right, especially as they would lead to the demise of all but the biggest or most luxurious of cruise lines.

On a different take, I have seen speculation on another forum that Oceana has been sold to the owner of Seajets, who operate a large ferry company in Greece - presumably to diversify into cruises. No idea how accurate that speculation is.

[majortom10]

36 minutes ago, drsel said:

Bruce on YouTube says that Oceana is being scrapped, because it will be financially unviable to operate

https://www.youtube.com/embed/wfEac8Ol_Kw?feature=oembed 

Wouldnt pay too much attention on what he says on his video he is very unreliable and gets many things wrong.

[bee-ess]

I have never seen any of his videos until this one - but hearing him I can't stop thinking it is Kermit talking, or is it only me.

[Adawn47]

22 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Hmmmmm. Just had a look at his video. He has no idea how to pronounce her name and apparently yesterday stated that she doesn't have any balcony cabins. His assertion on her being scrapped is that for the foreseeable future, cruise lines will not be able to sell any inside cabins and only a very restricted number of outside cabins without a balcony. He says that he feels most ships with less than 70% of cabins being balcony ones will be scrapped! He also states that she is being replaced by Iona when she comes out of the shipyard in the New Year. It will be interesting to see how many of his predictions are proved right, especially as they would lead to the demise of all but the biggest or most luxurious of cruise lines.

On a different take, I have seen speculation on another forum that Oceana has been sold to the owner of Seajets, who operate a large ferry company in Greece - presumably to diversify into cruises. No idea how accurate that speculation is.

I'd rather take notice of molecrochip and his trusty crystal ball. 

Avril 

[jeanlyon]

Don't know the guy, but one thing is probably right, that they will no longer use inside cabins which is what we usually have, so it will be interesting to see what happens with my 2 Aurora cruises next year.

[panamapd]

Hi all - re AIDA.  She is more expensive as all drinks (wine, beer, coke/7up) are included in the price.  We sailed on Aida Nova in 2018 and had a great time.  Looking forward to sailing on her "sister" ship Iona, whenever that may be.  We are booked for 24 October 2020 and are contemplating whether to pay the balance or not.

 

See the AIDA board for more info.  She was not as "German" as many people perceive it to be.

[AnnieC]

1 hour ago, bee-ess said:

I have never seen any of his videos until this one - but hearing him I can't stop thinking it is Kermit talking, or is it only me.

Yep, kept expecting Miss Piggy to pop up.😄

[molecrochip]

1 hour ago, majortom10 said:

Wouldnt pay too much attention on what he says on his video he is very unreliable and gets many things wrong.

Oceeeena has no balconies?

Iona coming out of a shipyard in Finland in the new year????

He even mentions Pulmantur ships being scrapped. That they maybe but they are being given back to RCI who own them - its then up to RCI whether they are scrapped. Pulmantur was used to extract extra life from old vessels.

 

I've seen a number of his videos. Bruce means well but is often wrong.

[ann141]

1 hour ago, jeanlyon said:

Don't know the guy, but one thing is probably right, that they will no longer use inside cabins which is what we usually have, so it will be interesting to see what happens with my 2 Aurora cruises next year.

It would be nice to think that those of us booked in inside cabins would have free upgrades!! but I think thats as unlikely as some of the other comments  in the video

[joeecco]

3 hours ago, drsel said:

Bruce on YouTube says that Oceana is being scrapped, because it will be financially unviable to operate

https://www.youtube.com/embed/wfEac8Ol_Kw?feature=oembed 

He just makes up what we likes, a lot of videos he’s made have been nonsense. He also said Oceana didn’t have balcony’s and that’s why it’s being scrapped.

[Britboys]

5 minutes ago, joeecco said:

He just makes up what we likes, a lot of videos he’s made have been nonsense. He also said Oceana didn’t have balcony’s and that’s why it’s being scrapped.

As mentioned in my post #765...