New Cruising Guidelines Issued by EU

[jonthomas]

As for mishandling, you will get differing views on that. Just as you would get different views on any mishandling of any issue by any govt or any authority.  All political. 

[Paulchili]

13 minutes ago, jonthomas said:

As for mishandling, you will get differing views on that. Just as you would get different views on any mishandling of any issue by any govt or any authority.  All political. 

Well, what is different (and indisputable) is that we are doing by far the worst of all civilized and even some third world countries in controlling this pandemic.

Look at what Italy and Spain have done since they looked like a train wreck. Look at the numbers of any EU country and compare their curves with ours and then tell which part is disputable.

This is NOT political and not Democrats vs Republicans - it's about America and Americans - all of us..

Edited July 20, 2020 by Paulchili

[jonthomas]

Yes that is true. But so many angry about so much, that seems covid has taken a back burner, not a priority. So many other issues seem to have come to the forefront that other countries dont have to deal with.  Hard to focus only on Covid in the states. Way too much going on.  

[clo]

52 minutes ago, jonthomas said:

Yes that is true. But so many angry about so much, that seems covid has taken a back burner, not a priority. So many other issues seem to have come to the forefront that other countries dont have to deal with.  Hard to focus only on Covid in the states. Way too much going on.  

WEAR THE DAMN MASK.

[jonthomas]

2 minutes ago, clo said:

WEAR THE DAMN MASK.

 

Agreed!!!

[clo]

1 minute ago, jonthomas said:

 

Agreed!!!

YAY!!!!!

[Paulchili]

2 hours ago, jonthomas said:

Way too much going on

Until we will learned how to manage this COVID not much else will be going on.

First things first.

[jonthomas]

13 hours ago, clo said:

YAY!!!!!

 

Not sure why you thought I was anti mask.

I have never said that .  But guess it is easy here to misunderstand. 

Have been wearing one since February and encouraging all others to do the same. 

 

I also agree, that Covid should be the number one issue of concern right now, not everything else that has people rioting, looting, screaming, etc about.

 

I  have to be very careful , as my freedom of speech has been shockingly taken away. Anything and everything can be misconstrued as inappropriate. People are losing their jobs for saying much less  than I have. Of course I have once again gotten off topic. That is so easy to do.

[clo]

59 minutes ago, jonthomas said:

Not sure why you thought I was anti mask.

 

Not at all. Just giving you an attaboy/girl 🙂

[jonthomas]

Got it and thanks.

[CptBoatface]

One thing is the fervent nature of opinion lately.  I like masks, because they improve my appearance,  but regardless of efficacy, I get sick to my stomach about the use of government force to ensure their usage.  Maybe they help and I do wear them out,  but... 

[clo]

1 hour ago, CptBoatface said:

I get sick to my stomach about the use of government force to ensure their usage. 

How is the mask issue any different from a gazillion other government rules about every day life?

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, CptBoatface said:

One thing is the fervent nature of opinion lately.  I like masks, because they improve my appearance,  but regardless of efficacy, I get sick to my stomach about the use of government force to ensure their usage.  Maybe they help and I do wear them out,  but... 

Government force would/should not be necessary if people were smart enough to follow the scientific advice instead of being selfish and inconsiderate of others’ health (as well as their own). Instead, some people are willing to spend time and money suing local governments that would force use of masks.

People of Singapore, S. Korea and many other countries that conquered this virus did wear masks and did not require government enforcement because they were smart enough to realize that it was for their own good  and not for the good of government.

Six months into this and some people still can’t recognize or admit to what works (helps) and what doesn’t

Edited July 22, 2020 by Paulchili

[clo]

27 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

some people still can’t recognize or admit to what works

"I get sick to my stomach about the use of government force to ensure their usage."

 

It's beyond anything I can describe to support this. I'm mad as hell.

[1985rz1]

2 hours ago, CptBoatface said:

One thing is the fervent nature of opinion lately.  I like masks, because they improve my appearance,  but regardless of efficacy, I get sick to my stomach about the use of government force to ensure their usage.  Maybe they help and I do wear them out,  but... 

 

42 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Government force would/should not be necessary if people were smart enough to follow the scientific advice instead of being selfish and inconsiderate of others’ health (as well as their own).

People of Singapore, S. Korea and many other countries that conquered this virus did wear masks and did not require government enforcement because they were smart enough to realize that it was for their own good  and not for the good of government.

Six months into this and some people still can’t recognize or admit to what works (helps) and what doesn’t

I think Paul is right.  None of us like the government mandating behavior, but the reality is that we have a large fraction of our population who simply are unable to act responsibly without the mandate.  So I don't blame the government for mandates, i blame the irresponsible, selfish ones.  

[pinotlover]

A portion of our problem is political and the use of terminology. I get ill listening to people say “ follow the science “, when quite often it’s not proven science but the mere opinion of a scientist! In these times if despair and anxiousness, the public has grasp for straws, or anything that might work, as a remedy or cure. A large number of those ideas proposed by scientists were wrong or ineffective. They were never science, most often only WAGs, that some proclaimed as science and wasn’t. That ritual of proclaiming WAGs as science made many distrustful of “ science “. 
 

The entire battle over masks is an example. Masks are there to knock down aerosols and germs from your mouth. A bandanna, or some of the flimsy things posing as masks, will not keep you from get the disease. Do you realize how many people don’t understand that? Yet, they’ll claim that science says that wearing the bandanna protects them! You need a N95 or above for that!

[RJB]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

A portion of our problem is political and the use of terminology. I get ill listening to people say “ follow the science “, when quite often it’s not proven science but the mere opinion of a scientist! In these times if despair and anxiousness, the public has grasp for straws, or anything that might work, as a remedy or cure. A large number of those ideas proposed by scientists were wrong or ineffective. They were never science, most often only WAGs, that some proclaimed as science and wasn’t. That ritual of proclaiming WAGs as science made many distrustful of “ science “. 
 

The entire battle over masks is an example. Masks are there to knock down aerosols and germs from your mouth. A bandanna, or some of the flimsy things posing as masks, will not keep you from get the disease. Do you realize how many people don’t understand that? Yet, they’ll claim that science says that wearing the bandanna protects them! You need a N95 or above for that!

You make a lot of sense here when some of the people that post do not. Many opinions and few real facts.  Keep up the good work.  And stay safe.  

[clo]

2 hours ago, pinotlover said:

They were never science, most often only WAGs, that some proclaimed as science and wasn’t. That ritual of proclaiming WAGs as science made many distrustful of “ science “. 

No. They were educated opinions based upon the data available at that time. 

 

31 minutes ago, RJB said:

Yet, they’ll claim that science says that wearing the bandanna protects them! You need a N95 or above for that!

No. A mask of almost any kind HELPS. It's better than no mask. You'll likely say that this piece from Montgomery AL is a lie.

 

https://abc3340.com/news/local/montgomery-cuts-covid-19-case-rate-in-half-after-one-month-of-masks

 

You have a regular tendency to claim that what you say is the be-all and end-all when it's not. I just hope that people don't believe you when you say things like this.

[RJB]

42 minutes ago, clo said:

No. They were educated opinions based upon the data available at that time. 

 

No. A mask of almost any kind HELPS. It's better than no mask. You'll likely say that this piece from Montgomery AL is a lie.

 

https://abc3340.com/news/local/montgomery-cuts-covid-19-case-rate-in-half-after-one-month-of-masks

 

You have a regular tendency to claim that what you say is the be-all and end-all when it's not. I just hope that people don't believe you when you say things like this.

First of all I did not say that the N95 mask was the only thing to wear. I was agreeing with the previous post.  As to wearing a piece of cloth over your face most of the experts seem to say it does no good to protect anyone.

[clo]

3 minutes ago, RJB said:

First of all I did not say that the N95 mask was the only thing to wear. I was agreeing with the previous post.  As to wearing a piece of cloth over your face most of the experts seem to say it does no good to protect anyone.

Sorry, I didn't notice that it wasn't pinotlover's whole post.

 

Here's what the CDC has to say about cloth face masks.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-to-make-cloth-face-covering.html

 

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, pinotlover said:

...
 

The entire battle over masks is an example. Masks are there to knock down aerosols and germs from your mouth. A bandanna, or some of the flimsy things posing as masks, will not keep you from get the disease. Do you realize how many people don’t understand that? Yet, they’ll claim that science says that wearing the bandanna protects them! You need a N95 or above for that!

Please stop and THINK.  The primary purpose of a mask is to prevent you from spreading something to others.   But if ALL the “others” were wearing masks, they would be protecting YOU.  

 

It would be nice if you were “King Of The World” - and could benefit from everyone else taking steps like wearing masks to protect you, wouldn’t it?  But, do you really think you are entitled to coast on what everyone else does?

 

Of course a flimsy bandanna is not going to be very effective - but it is better than nothing.  Hopefully people will wear effective masks - but even a simple cloth one will protect others - and, if you are willing to think about it, anything that will stop any particles leaving your mouth and nose is certain to have some effect in stopping incoming particles.

 

It does not have to be a N95 - it would be nice, but any reasonable cloth mask is better than nothing.

[clo]

9 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Please stop and THINK.

Something that seems to be missing A LOT. I've never thought the arrogance of many Americans to be an attractive feature and now it infuriates me.

[RJB]

30 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Please stop and THINK.  The primary purpose of a mask is to prevent you from spreading something to others.   But if ALL the “others” were wearing masks, they would be protecting YOU.  

 

It would be nice if you were “King Of The World” - and could benefit from everyone else taking steps like wearing masks to protect you, wouldn’t it?  But, do you really think you are entitled to coast on what everyone else does?

 

Of course a flimsy bandanna is not going to be very effective - but it is better than nothing.  Hopefully people will wear effective masks - but even a simple cloth one will protect others - and, if you are willing to think about it, anything that will stop any particles leaving your mouth and nose is certain to have some effect in stopping incoming particles.

 

It does not have to be a N95 - it would be nice, but any reasonable cloth mask is better than nothing.

Still has to fit right or it will be of little use.   Everyone should be able to get a proper mask so we all can be protected. 

[ORV]

2 hours ago, RJB said:

You make a lot of sense here when some of the people that post do not. Many opinions and few real facts.  Keep up the good work.  And stay safe.  

Or perhaps he's saying something you agree with, then it makes sense to you. Doesn't make it right. 

[pinotlover]

I never said people shouldn’t wear masks, so to protect others. I certainly do when I go out in public.

 

Educated opinions don’t make science. That takes a process! We’ve seen a lot of educated opinions about the usefulness of certain drugs. All purely opinion, not science yet!