Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[deadzone1003]

TeeRick, noted, it was just my response to her middle comment and I thought it best to give counter-examples.  

[nocl]

5 hours ago, deadzone1003 said:

Not anymore for your middle comment or, at least, they applied different rules for this pandemic.  Remember hydroxychloroquine, it has been around since 1955 for malaria, but they limit it to hospital use for this virus where it was not effective (as an anti-viral, it stops or inhibits the growth of virus, but by the time you enter the hospital because of breathing difficulties, your immune system is attacking the live/dead virus in your lungs - paradoxically, they can't find live covid-19 virus in almost all patients 12 days after onset of 1st  symptoms, I guess your immune system kills all the live virus, but it is also continue to attack the dead virus).  You can find many negative studies concerning HCQ for clinical/hospital applications, but you can't find any negative study on outpatient application of the drug.  They also did not recommend physicians to use ivermectin for covid-19, but they recently have changed their mind, now they left it up to doctor and patient where it should have been.  So, if you haven't gotten your vaccine and you catch covid-19, you might want to discuss the use of ivermectin between you and your doctor for outpatient use.  There are dozens of observational and some formal studies of ivermectin throughout the world except in the Western world.  The overwhelming number of them are positive.  

the law has not changed if a product is approved for use inside the US, physicians may choose to legally use it off label.  Of course they also bear any risk for doing so.

 

The difference with hydroxychloroquine was some action taken at the state level to limit and restrict distribution.

 

Another way off label products are limited is that while a physician may prescribe it, government programs and insurance companies may not pay for it, depending upon the indication it is being used for. 

 

That was another way hydroxychloroquine use was restricted, but a lot of physicians prescribed a lot of the product, even with the attempts to restrict it, because it was an approved product for a different indication. The main reasons that restrictions were put into place were to make sure that patients that were using it for approved indications were able to get their scripts filled.

Edited March 6, 2021 by nocl

[hcat]

7 hours ago, TeeRick said:

More about the COVID variant viruses and a general summary on how each vaccine handles them.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/05/how-the-different-covid-vaccines-will-handle-variants.html

Thank you..very informative...worth a  read!

[D C]

9 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I believe the EU is feuding specifically with Astra Zeneca over vaccine doses promised vs delivered to date.  It is getting very testy out there.  But people's lives do depend on this.

https://www.france24.com/en/health/20210305-france-eu-back-italy-s-decision-to-block-covid-19-vaccine-shipment-to-australia

 

This is turning into an interesting civics/political science lesson.  I can't fault the EU for blocking exports since Australia has no immediate need for the vaccine. 

 

Within the US, it's a good example of who actually has authority in a state vs federal govt perspective.  

[nocl]

15 minutes ago, D C said:

 

This is turning into an interesting civics/political science lesson.  I can't fault the EU for blocking exports since Australia has no immediate need for the vaccine. 

 

Within the US, it's a good example of who actually has authority in a state vs federal govt perspective.  

Of course it does make for an interesting situation in that the product is from a US owned company that is doing the final fill finish in Italy for product that is owned by a British company for an order to the government of Australia.

 

Going to be some rather interesting changes in supply chains when this is done.

[emmas gran]

4 hours ago, D C said:

 

This is turning into an interesting civics/political science lesson.  I can't fault the EU for blocking exports since Australia has no immediate need for the vaccine. 

 

 

Until Australians have the vaccine I cannot see them letting in International travellers, this includes family members stuck in the UK

[sgmn]

On 3/4/2021 at 5:09 PM, nocl said:

The other countries are doing it because there vaccine supply is even more limited.  They are doing so as an unproven, though with some limited data, theory. In the US we will have full supply in a couple of more months. 

 

There are enough issues with people getting second shots, even with the system set up for people to get them on schedule.  Imagine the confusion if the second shots were not scheduled and or prioritized.  How many do you think would just skip the second shot if there was not the sense of urgency that comes with the approved schedule?  

 

The FDA is data driven, they do not guess if they do not have solid data. Especially with an product under EUA.   If these were product with large quantities of actual use data then you might see them make such a change, but a new product with no history - Nope.

 

There is also the question on would the single show approach, with more people vaccinated, but with weaker protection create more opportunity for vaccine resistant traits in new variations?  A trade off with mutations of reducing total number of infections vs allowing more infections in partially protected. Which is more likely to lead to a vaccine resistant strain.

In the UK you book your second jab at the same time on the NHS booking website as your first,  once you have had your initial invitation letter.  If your first jab was done through your local GP they will contact you after 12 weeks

We have now had three months real trial data from both Scotland NHS and England NHS regarding leaving a 12 week gap between jabs and results are very promising.  It has meant that more people (over 30% now) have a high level of protection after one jab (over 80%).  My first jab was the middle of February and my next will be in May.  There may be a follow jab to cover new variants in the Autumn      

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, sgmn said:

In the UK you book your second jab at the same time on the NHS booking website as your first,  once you have had your initial invitation letter.  If your first jab was done through your local GP they will contact you after 12 weeks

We have now had three months real trial data from both Scotland NHS and England NHS regarding leaving a 12 week gap between jabs and results are very promising.  It has meant that more people (over 30% now) have a high level of protection after one jab (over 80%).  My first jab was the middle of February and my next will be in May.  There may be a follow jab to cover new variants in the Autumn      

Our US scientists believe the vaccines should be used as designed. When I had my first jab I was given an appointment for my second. Between the first and second which was exactly 21 days later they sent me text and email reminders. Escalating reminders the closer to my second appointment. 
 

The US has the manufacturing capacity to follow the regimen. Pfizer, Moderns and J&J are being produced in the US. J&J which is designed as one dose is being produced at a plant in my state. They were just approved and it is seems pretty available already.  My neighbor who is getting her jab today at a pharmacy was offered a choice of Pfizer or J&J. 

[Mary229]

Our second was not scheduled at the time of the first.  It was explained to me that I could get the second at any location and they would send me a reminder but not knowing that they would absolutely have the second dose on the future date they would wait until they had the vaccine in hand.  It worked just fine, the reminded me and save an appointment that I merely had to confirm.  That appointment was delayed by only 2 days because of a winter storm.  

[Charles4515]

5 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Our second was not scheduled at the time of the first.  It was explained to me that I could get the second at any location and they would send me a reminder but not knowing that they would absolutely have the second dose on the future date they would wait until they had the vaccine in hand.  It worked just fine, the reminded me and save an appointment that I merely had to confirm.  That appointment was delayed by only 2 days because of a winter storm.  

That sounds like how our county health department is scheduling.  The state schedules both appointments when you sign up online for a mass vaccination site. The pharmacies are doing the same, scheduling both appointments ahead together. The hospital system where I got mine schedules the first online and schedules the second at the clinic when you get the first. 
 

My niece lives in Texas and was delayed 3 days for her second dose by that storm. 

[4774Papa]

20 hours ago, deadzone1003 said:

That was a bit obvious when nurses and people who had to lift people in and out of gurneys or who had to turn them over were complaining about how big many patients were back in March 2020.    

Agree, we have visited 78 countries in the World and I would venture to say that the USA has the more obesity problem of them all.  Also, another reason countries like India have fewer deaths is that people in North America and Europe tend to live longer than in poor countries.  COVID-19 hits the elderly hard.

[TeeRick]

10 hours ago, D C said:

 

This is turning into an interesting civics/political science lesson.  I can't fault the EU for blocking exports since Australia has no immediate need for the vaccine. 

 

Within the US, it's a good example of who actually has authority in a state vs federal govt perspective.  

Dave, you are right.  Very interesting.  Imagine if the US was really struggling to get the promised contracted doses of the approved vaccines from Pfizer, Moderna and J&J.  .  And then these vaccine companies tried to ship large amounts to a place (Australia or NZ) where there is essentially no COVID.  There would be hell to pay on these shores too.  Cannot blame the EU at all here.

[TeeRick]

Here is another very general and readable article from the WHO on Covid variants and vaccines.

https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-effects-of-virus-variants-on-covid-19-vaccines

[TeeRick]

Recent data from the USA on our population's reluctance or outright resistance to get one of the COVID vaccines.  The resistance continues to drop substantially.  That is great news and will get us cruising sooner! But there is a hard core group around 20% that has not changed over time who are totally against getting the vaccine.  I know it is difficult or exasperating for some of you in other countries to understand some of the attitude in the US while you are waiting patiently for your turn to be vaccinated (as is my case too).  But some of our states are even reversing mask mandates.  We have no consistent messaging and actions across our states.  

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/06/politics/covid-vaccine-analysis/index.html

[TeeRick]

On 3/5/2021 at 8:55 AM, TrulyBlonde said:

How about this:

Get your vaccine, wear a mask, and lose some weight:

Countries with high obesity rates have more deaths.

You can Google all of the latest info on it.

Here is a recent general article on COVID and COVID vaccines as it relates to obesity.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/03/06/covid-vaccine-cdc-states-prioritize-people-obesity-heres-why/6883235002/

[Ken the cruiser]

After reading about the positivity rate dropping below 5% in Florida, even for one day,

 

Florida COVID update for Saturday: 4,690 new cases, 98 deaths. Positivity dips below 5% (msn.com)

 

I now have a new JHU chart to monitor:

 

Which U.S. States Meet Recommended Positivity Levels? - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center (jhu.edu)

 

Wow! I really need to get back to cruising! 🙃

[TeeRick]

35 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

After reading about the positivity rate dropping below 5% in Florida, even for one day,

 

Florida COVID update for Saturday: 4,690 new cases, 98 deaths. Positivity dips below 5% (msn.com)

 

I now have a new JHU chart to monitor:

 

Which U.S. States Meet Recommended Positivity Levels? - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center (jhu.edu)

 

Wow! I really need to get back to cruising! 🙃

Curious as to why is your state AL so high in positivity rate?  Your governor is lifting the mask mandate there April 9th.  Texas is very high too.  No masks as of March 10.  FL has no state mask mandate but the large cities and counties in FL do.  Surges in the No Mask states will impact the rest of us for cruising and traveling.  Maybe the No Mask states should be subject to receiving less vaccine distributions?  Just a thought.

 

https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2020/states-mask-mandates-coronavirus.html

Edited March 7, 2021 by TeeRick

[Ken the cruiser]

1 minute ago, TeeRick said:

Curious as to why is your state AL so high in positivity rate?  Your governor is lifting the mask mandate there April 9th.  Texas is very high too.  No masks as of March 10.  FL has no state mask mandate but the large cities and counties in FL do.  Surges in the No Mask states will impact the rest of us for cruising and traveling.  Maybe the No Mask states should be subject to receiving less vaccine distributions?  Just a thought.

Just because there is a mask mandate doesn't mean everyone out in public areas or in stores for that matter is wearing a mask. At least not in my state. And for the most part, no one is going to call someone out for not wearing one or wearing it improperly, unless maybe at Disney World. I have to admit now that my DW and I have had both shots, our stress level has gone way down, especially when we see someone in the grocery store or at the lumber yard not wearing a mask.

[Charles4515]

3 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

Agree, we have visited 78 countries in the World and I would venture to say that the USA has the more obesity problem of them all.  Also, another reason countries like India have fewer deaths is that people in North America and Europe tend to live longer than in poor countries.  COVID-19 hits the elderly hard.

 

A major reason is that India has a larger proportion of the population in younger age groups. 

[cantstopingcruising]

In Canada, it is mandatory to wear a mask indoors in a public place. They now tell us to wear double masks.  Definitely, if I see someone unmasked (which doesn't happen here) or not wearing their mask properly, I say something. They always adjust their mask immediately. What they do once I pass them by....who knows!

[hawkesbaynz]

3 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

Agree, we have visited 78 countries in the World and I would venture to say that the USA has the more obesity problem of them all.  Also, another reason countries like India have fewer deaths is that people in North America and Europe tend to live longer than in poor countries.  COVID-19 hits the elderly hard.

 

The UK is not far off! Obesity seems to be a major factor with Covid 19. A friend was working in an ICU where they needed 14 staff to roll a 40 stone patient! As a nurse who ruined his back as a student 40 years ago I feel for them. Fortunately morbidly obese people are being offered vaccinations early.

 

Bizarre that States with high levels are lifting restrictions. We still cannot attend bars or restaurants and I cannot drive 50 miles to see my mother. As for the wifes hair...............

 

 

 

[Charles4515]

6 minutes ago, cantstopingcruising said:

In Canada, it is mandatory to wear a mask indoors in a public place. They now tell us to wear double masks.  Definitely, if I see someone unmasked (which doesn't happen here) or not wearing their mask properly, I say something. They always adjust their mask immediately. What they do once I pass them by....who knows!

 

Sometimes they have forgotten. In my condo I say politely "you forgot your mask". Most of the time that is the case and they apologise and go back for their mask. They forgot walking out the door. The one or two nincompoops who won't wear masks ignore me but I say exactly the same thing next time.  

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, hawkesbaynz said:

Bizarre that States with high levels are lifting restrictions.

That makes one wonder how rigorously the restrictions were adhered to or enforced before they were lifted.

[catty]

Not buying this at all. If you take a vaccine and it makes you safe, that’s great. But why force me to take it? How is that hurting anyone? 

[catty]

On 3/6/2021 at 12:04 PM, deadzone1003 said:

Not anymore for your middle comment or, at least, they applied different rules for this pandemic.  Remember hydroxychloroquine, it has been around since 1955 for malaria, but they limit it to hospital use for this virus where it was not effective (as an anti-viral, it stops or inhibits the growth of virus, but by the time you enter the hospital because of breathing difficulties, your immune system is attacking the live/dead virus in your lungs - paradoxically, they can't find live covid-19 virus in almost all patients 12 days after onset of 1st  symptoms, I guess your immune system kills all the live virus, but it is also continue to attack the dead virus).  You can find many negative studies concerning HCQ for clinical/hospital applications, but you can't find any negative study on outpatient application of the drug.  They also did not recommend physicians to use ivermectin for covid-19, but they recently have changed their mind, now they left it up to doctor and patient where it should have been.  So, if you haven't gotten your vaccine and you catch covid-19, you might want to discuss the use of ivermectin between you and your doctor for outpatient use.  There are dozens of observational and some formal studies of ivermectin throughout the world except in the Western world.  The overwhelming number of them are positive.  

 How can you buy ivermectin?