Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[4774Papa]

13 hours ago, Miaminice said:

 

Your choice... as ridiculous the argumentation might be.
Unfortunately your choice does not just effect you but can cause harm to many others.
Reading this I wish they´d revive Alcatraz and put i to good use 😞

 

Sorry Miaminice, while I agree with you that the anti-vaxers are most likely wrong, your statement about Alcatraz was over the top.  It is everyone's right to make the decision on vaccination.  I have had mine and glad that I did, but I respect the right of everyone to make that decision.

[HskrCrsr]

36 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

Sorry Miaminice, while I agree with you that the anti-vaxers are most likely wrong, your statement about Alcatraz was over the top.  It is everyone's right to make the decision on vaccination.  I have had mine and glad that I did, but I respect the right of everyone to make that decision.

 

I agree with your statement, 4774Papa, including that the Alcatraz comment was over the top. But the first two lines from Miaminice make perfect sense to me (other than effect vs affect, sorry).

 

Since this thread asks if vaccines are the light at the end of the tunnel, my response would be "yes, if enough people get vaccinated." I think the frustration or sadness expressed by Miaminice's emoji (emoticon?) reflects the probability that those not getting vaccinated by choice just make the end of the tunnel further away, or the light dimmer, or something along those lines.

 

You have often made good, thoughtful, and respectful comments, including this one. Considering Miaminice's comment that the earlier poster's decision can cause harm to others, I would be interested in your thoughts regarding whether the anti-vaxers should be completely free to make a decision not to be vaccinated, prolonging a recovery while endangering those who are vulnerable or unable to be vaccinated? Should there be consequences for such a decision?

 

Personally, I feel there is a line somewhere that is not to be crossed when harming others is a potential outcome. I don't know where that line is when it comes to the novel Coronavirus. I do know Typhoid Mary paid a price for her stance.

[mayleeman]

I respect the right of people to make the decision not to get vaxxed, but I do not respect the decision itself.

 

I similarly respect the right of someone to believe the earth is flat, but the decision?? Not so much.

 

People not getting the vaccine because the virus is "98% survivable" might be similarly disposed to not wear seatbelts because most car accidents are survivable. 

[lyndarra]

5 hours ago, need2cruisesoon said:

 

I find it interesting that almost 30-35% of health officials have refused to take the vaccine up to this point, what do they know that we don't?

 

 

What do the other 65-70% know that the others don't?

[nocl]

3 hours ago, hcat said:

we  feel  lucky we got the Moderna vaccine and hope we  stay with that brand for any boosters. 

 

Would not take J and J at the moment. In our opinion, the response to the Md facility standards  issue was itself

" a bit sloppy"

A problem can develop during manufacture of any drug. The fact that a batch did not make specs occurred before before fill finish is exactly how the quality control system is supposed to work.

[zitsky]

6 minutes ago, nocl said:

A problem can develop during manufacture of any drug. The fact that a batch did not make specs occurred before before fill finish is exactly how the quality control system is supposed to work.

 

What problems were found during the manufacture of drugs from competitors?  Are they publicized? 

[nocl]

Just now, zitsky said:

 

What problems were found during the manufacture of drugs from competitors?  Are they publicized? 

from competitors???

 

No manufacturing failures are not publicized. no more than GM publicizes a problem with one of their assembly line. As long as the problem gets caught that is what GMP and QC and QA is for.

 

Just like you never hear about if a food manufacturer has to reject a lot before it leaves the factory.

[D C]

2 hours ago, lyndarra said:

What do the other 65-70% know that the others don't?

 

What do you call someone who graduated at the bottom of their med-school class? 

 

"Doctor"

 

Being educated does not necessarily make one smart. 

[Arizona Wildcat]

8 minutes ago, nocl said:

from competitors???

 

No manufacturing failures are not publicized. no more than GM publicizes a problem with one of their assembly line. As long as the problem gets caught that is what GMP and QC and QA is for.

 

Just like you never hear about if a food manufacturer has to reject a lot before it leaves the factory.

11 hours ago, TeeRick said:

My thoughts on April 1, 2020.

There will be several COVID vaccines developed that have high efficacy in clinical trials by year end and the US will have over 140 million doses administered in one year.  APRIL FOOLS!  Glad I was wrong.

 

My thoughts on April 1, 2021.

The pandemic will be over by year end and we will all be cruising out of US ports.  (April Fools??).

 

A comment about travel and vaccines.

Since all vaccines are under emergency use governments (not businesses) cannot mandate their use.  After full approval is obtained - not my area of expertise - they can be required legally.  The above was discussed regarding travelers entering my state.

Found my yellow fever and other exotic vaccination data - both ancient and from about 10 years ago - in data base at our state health dept.  Guess Coved there too.  Is that data on my passport renewed last year?  No idea.

[hcat]

24 minutes ago, nocl said:

A problem can develop during manufacture of any drug. The fact that a batch did not make specs occurred before before fill finish is exactly how the quality control system is supposed to work.

 Glad it worked as  expected.  Hopefully no  such other batches got through...

Human  or technological errors always a  possible factor or as mom used to say " haste makes waste"

[zitsky]

19 minutes ago, nocl said:

from competitors???

 

No manufacturing failures are not publicized. no more than GM publicizes a problem with one of their assembly line. As long as the problem gets caught that is what GMP and QC and QA is for.

 

Just like you never hear about if a food manufacturer has to reject a lot before it leaves the factory.

 

So why do we know about J&J?  And how long do you suppose it was before they found it?  A few hours maybe?

[farmermd]

8 hours ago, need2cruisesoon said:

 

So it's selfish for me to have an opinion, selfish of me not to roll up my sleeve every time the government says we need to inject a serum for a virus that is 98% survivable.

 

I thought it was my body my choice and you have a problem with that?

 

I find it interesting that almost 30-35% of health officials have refused to take the vaccine up to this point, what do they know that we don't?

 

You know where this headed right, vaccine passports for travel, to go to the market, to see a movie at a theatre, to go shopping at a mall........

 

 

The government was genius in the marketing of all of this - the mask/vaccine is to protect others not me, businesses enforcing masks/vaccines so government isn’t the bad guy. Genius I tell ya!

 

are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?   No they are not. People turning off MSM and getting on with their lives is the light. When we have accepted Twitter/FB/Google controlling the narrative, then we as a country and democracy are screwed. 

[4774Papa]

3 hours ago, HskrCrsr said:

 

I agree with your statement, 4774Papa, including that the Alcatraz comment was over the top. But the first two lines from Miaminice make perfect sense to me (other than effect vs affect, sorry).

 

Since this thread asks if vaccines are the light at the end of the tunnel, my response would be "yes, if enough people get vaccinated." I think the frustration or sadness expressed by Miaminice's emoji (emoticon?) reflects the probability that those not getting vaccinated by choice just make the end of the tunnel further away, or the light dimmer, or something along those lines.

 

You have often made good, thoughtful, and respectful comments, including this one. Considering Miaminice's comment that the earlier poster's decision can cause harm to others, I would be interested in your thoughts regarding whether the anti-vaxers should be completely free to make a decision not to be vaccinated, prolonging a recovery while endangering those who are vulnerable or unable to be vaccinated? Should there be consequences for such a decision?

 

Personally, I feel there is a line somewhere that is not to be crossed when harming others is a potential outcome. I don't know where that line is when it comes to the novel Coronavirus. I do know Typhoid Mary paid a price for her stance.

I am not an anti-vaxer and disagree with almost everything they saw, but I respond their decision.

 

What I don't like is that a non-vaccinated person will act like the virus is not a problem.  I would particularly be upset for people, non-vaccinated that failed to protect others from the vaccine by ignoring symptoms of the virus and indications they had the virus, then going out and potentially exposing themselves to others.

 

I do feel that people that have had the virus are highly likely to have significant immunity to the virus, which will assist in reaching herd immunity if a large percentage of people are vaccinated.

 

Also, I think a relatively minor percentage of people with extreme allergies or other major health issues might be more at risk to take the vaccine (very small percentage).  My doctor has so advised me of this.

 

I have no problem masking and social distancing, but I think with the massive number of vaccinations expected in the USA by the end of Summer that much of the shutdown thinking should go away.

 

Still, things could change and I might have a different view.  As much of us view the future, it may change.

[nocl]

13 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

So why do we know about J&J?  And how long do you suppose it was before they found it?  A few hours maybe?

we know because everything related to the vaccines has been under a microscope. Just like with the trials.  how many people have heard of a phase 3 clinical trial before this year, or about the vaccine advisory committee.

[farmermd]

The vaccine is the new legal discrimination. So my question is, if I am a business owner/cruise line operator, can I refuse service to minorities who have not been vaccinated?  If I am a baker, do I still have to bake the LGBTQRWD+ cake for you if you haven’t been vaccinated?  Wake up everyone- this is a slippery slope we are going down. 

[zitsky]

1 minute ago, farmermd said:

The vaccine is the new legal discrimination. So my question is, if I am a business owner/cruise line operator, can I refuse service to minorities who have not been vaccinated?  If I am a baker, do I still have to bake the LGBTQRWD+ cake for you if you haven’t been vaccinated?  Wake up everyone- this is a slippery slope we are going down. 

 

I hope you were vaccinated before you wrote that?!

[farmermd]

2 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

I hope you were vaccinated before you wrote that?!

ⓁⓂⒻⒶⓄ 

[zitsky]

🙂

[Charles4515]

33 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

So why do we know about J&J?  And how long do you suppose it was before they found it?  A few hours maybe?

What we know is they contract the vaccine production to a company that has a plant in Baltimore. That plant is producing both JnJ and AZ vaccines. Someone there mixed up the batches.  

[cantstopingcruising]

18 minutes ago, farmermd said:

The vaccine is the new legal discrimination. So my question is, if I am a business owner/cruise line operator, can I refuse service to minorities who have not been vaccinated?  If I am a baker, do I still have to bake the LGBTQRWD+ cake for you if you haven’t been vaccinated?  Wake up everyone- this is a slippery slope we are going down. 

Ridiculous

[nocl]

48 minutes ago, farmermd said:

The vaccine is the new legal discrimination. So my question is, if I am a business owner/cruise line operator, can I refuse service to minorities who have not been vaccinated?  If I am a baker, do I still have to bake the LGBTQRWD+ cake for you if you haven’t been vaccinated?  Wake up everyone- this is a slippery slope we are going down. 

you can not discriminate against a protected class, but vaccination status in not a protected class. so you cannot use it to target a protected class but you can require vaccination as long as you require it of everybody.

[nocl]

35 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

What we know is they contract the vaccine production to a company that has a plant in Baltimore. That plant is producing both JnJ and AZ vaccines. Someone there mixed up the batches.  

There was a rumor that some AZ materials contaminated a J&J batch.

The CEO of that company stated on CNBC that that was not correct. Instead the batch did not meet specifications for release.

[Charles4515]

We might know soon if vaccination will be required.  It is rumored that new CDC guidelines are coming shortly.
 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Miami-Dade-mayor-CDC-guidelines-vaccines

[D C]

8 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Yes just like seasonal influenza vaccines.  I imagine it would be easier to do this for the mRNA vaccines.  A big advantage.    For Novavax it is a bit more complicated having to make and purify the proteins from each variant strain and then mix them in the vials and characterize them.

Variants aside, how long should we expect ANY vaccine to last?  Urgent care asks routinely if I've had a tetanus shot in the past 5-10 years.  There are others where I may or may not have had a booster a very long time ago, but I'm never asked about. 

 

Do we know enough about the immune system to make an educated guess, or does the immune system really fade away at different rates for different diseases and vaccines? 

[lyndarra]

1 hour ago, D C said:

 

What do you call someone who graduated at the bottom of their med-school class? 

 

"Doctor"

 

Being educated does not necessarily make one smart. 

So you are now questioning the intelligence of the 65-70%?